Tantra v Butterfly

[The_Noble_Cause]

And you are an idiot who obviously does not pay attention to my posts unless of course it's something you want to argue with. It's funny how people are given the troll tag if they're not blindly following the crowd. What's next? You gonna have everybody wearing Nikes and waiting for the spaceships?

YAWN. All you do is unrealistically compare Eclipse to the “Journey Sound” and ”The Dirty Dozen”, completely overlooking the fact that the dirty dozen is compiled from an entire career’s worth of albums, many with songs that don’t sound like typical Journey at all. Like some disobedient dog grabbed by the scruff of its neck and forced to smells its own kitchen floor shit, you remain completely oblivious. The central premise of your argument (Eclipse does not sound like Journey) is as sturdy as a house of cards.

I will express my opinions whenever and however the fuck I want to express them. If you can't handle that, get the fuck out of here.

And just who appointed you MR bridge keeper again? I’ve been here since Andrew was typing html code with two fingers. If you can’t handle the heat, why don’t you go back to trading dick tweets with your local congressman?

I never stated that's what I love nor have I ever stated that is the only thing Journey should ever write about. If I have, please go back and find those posts. And it's funny that you'd call yourself a fan of the band and then call the music they are mostly known for garbage. To me, that's quite a contradiction.

The overwhelming majority of the “dirty dozen” songs, (songs which you claim have the signature “Journey sound”), are all about “boy meets girl.” Now, you either like that mushy stuff or you don’t. You are an intellectually dishonest lowlife. If you can’t keep track of your own poorly-constructed opinions, why should anyone take you seriously? Oh. Wait. That’s right. They don’t. You are increasingly the laughing stock of the MR community, and quite possibly the internet itself, even far surpassing that fat kid on YouTube playing with light sabers. Go take a shit.

I will listen to whatever the fuck I want to listen to. Of course Journey has been considered "cheesy" to the Rolling Stones disciples who hate Journey. But, considering 80's music as a whole, I don't see them any cheesier than anything else that was played on the radio in those days. Yes, the Separate Ways video was cheesy, but the song wasn't. I thought Open Arms was sappy, but never considered it "cheesy". If you do, then good for you and go fuck yourself.

Oh please. Even Neal thinks his own band is cheesy.

And you can't handle it when someone is doing that with you. If you can't take it, don't be dishing it out.

I’m not the guy balking at being asked to explain myself. I’ll tear you a new argumentative asshole, any day of the week. How does it feel to be my prison bitch? Now go turn tricks in the yard so I can buy a pack of Marlboros at the commissary.

[conversationpc]

Good to see TNC involved in a good dust-up again.

[conversationpc]

And you are an idiot who obviously does not pay attention to my posts unless of course it's something you want to argue with. It's funny how people are given the troll tag if they're not blindly following the crowd. What's next? You gonna have everybody wearing Nikes and waiting for the spaceships?

YAWN. All you do is unrealistically compare Eclipse to the “Journey Sound” and ”The Dirty Dozen”, completely overlooking the fact that the dirty dozen is compiled from an entire career’s worth of albums, many with songs that don’t sound like typical Journey at all. Like some disobedient dog grabbed by the scruff of its neck and forced to smells its own kitchen floor shit, you remain completely oblivious. The central premise of your argument (Eclipse does not sound like Journey) is as sturdy as a house of cards.

I agree with Greg on this point...Most of those dirty dozen songs do have the "Journey sound", however you want to explain it, if it's explainable at all. That being said, a good Journey song doesn't have to have the classic sound to be a good one. I just don't like "Tantra", regardless of it having the classic sound or not.

[Gideon]

Good to see TNC involved in a good dust-up again.

There's definitely a kindness about him, the way he handles his opponents gently.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Let just agree that Tantra is one of the greatest Journey songs ever.

[Don]

Let just agree that Tantra is one of the greatest Journey songs ever.

Huh? Let's fucking not.
Maybe if you're a Queen fan or if you think Mother, Father is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
What's that long garbage song that Guns & Roses does, November Rain?

A song like Ritual, though it has a Night Ranger vibe is along the lines of what I expected when Neal said he was going to rock harder this album. I don't listen to Journey to try and GET the music. That's what Pink Floyd and a bag of weed are for.

I won't sit here and say that Eclipse doesn't sound like Journey, that's just not true. As a matter of fact, to my ears AIP and Someone are more Journey sounding than anything they've done post ROR.
Like every other Journey album, there are songs that I just don't really dig. Rubicon, Mother Father, I'm Cryin'. Tantra goes right into that same pile for me.

[Michigan Girl]

LOL ...this has to be like trying to talk a gay man straight!!
I love Perry on MF, WOM and every other theatrical song
he has ever done ...love, love love ISA!! I cannot stand
the vocal delivery in/of Tantra ...I'm w/Greg, still.
I feel ya dawg!!


I also absolutely love everything G~boy mentioned ^^^^Queen, November Rain ...love 'em!!
I say the people who love Tantra are allowed to be gay/straight, whatever!!

[conversationpc]

Like every other Journey album, there are songs that I just don't really dig. Rubicon, Mother Father, I'm Cryin'. Tantra goes right into that same pile for me.

Death to you!!!

[Don]

Like every other Journey album, there are songs that I just don't really dig. Rubicon, Mother Father, I'm Cryin'. Tantra goes right into that same pile for me.

Death to you!!!

Rubicon is just .. ugggh. It's one of those songs where the lyrics kill it for me. I start thinking of River Styx and Clash of the Titans and weird shit.

[Gideon]

It's one of those songs where the lyrics kill it for me.

How you manage to stomach anything from the Rolie-era, then, is beyond me.

[Don]

It's one of those songs where the lyrics kill it for me.

How you manage to stomach anything from the Rolie-era, then, is beyond me.

The lyrics don't have to make sense if the music is good enough. When I start feeling the need to analyze what is being said, it's game over in Journey's case 99% of the time.

[kgdjpubs]

It's one of those songs where the lyrics kill it for me.

How you manage to stomach anything from the Rolie-era, then, is beyond me.

The lyrics don't have to make sense if the music is good enough. When I start feeling the need to analyze what is being said, it's game over in Journey's case 99% of the time.

well, that might explain it. Lyrics are usually a make-it-or-break-it clause for me....which might explain the hatred of Homemade Love, and why I really like To Whom it May Concern--which seems to get about the same reaction here as Tantra.

[Greg]

YAWN. All you do is unrealistically compare Eclipse to the “Journey Sound” and ”The Dirty Dozen”, completely overlooking the fact that the dirty dozen is compiled from an entire career’s worth of albums, many with songs that don’t sound like typical Journey at all. Like some disobedient dog grabbed by the scruff of its neck and forced to smells its own kitchen floor shit, you remain completely oblivious. The central premise of your argument (Eclipse does not sound like Journey) is as sturdy as a house of cards.

Are you retarded or something? You're sitting here making up half of this shit just so you can satisfy your own hard-on for internet flame wars. You serious are a psycho in need of some mental help. Please do yourself a favor and take a break from the internet, go outside and play on the swings or something and let us adults have an intelligent conversation about music. Seriously, you have something mentally wrong with you. I hope for your sake (and ours) that you're not one of those internet predators. If I ever find out that you have molested any children, I will personally track you down and make an example out of you you sick bastard!

And just who appointed you MR bridge keeper again? I’ve been here since Andrew was typing html code with two fingers. If you can’t handle the heat, why don’t you go back to trading dick tweets with your local congressman?

And who appointed you head helmet wearer and glass licker of the MR community? You are the most unfriendly scum-bag that has ever gotten help connecting to the internet. I do NOT take orders from anybody, especially retards like you. You deserve no respect nor any explanations from me on any subject of anything ever. I do not care if you have been here since the inventions of TCP/IP protocols or ARPANET. Oh, "and if you can't handle the heat"....just shut your freakin' mouth. You are a bore, a transvestite, and not worthy of wasting anymore bandwidth.

The overwhelming majority of the “dirty dozen” songs, (songs which you claim have the signature “Journey sound”), are all about “boy meets girl.” Now, you either like that mushy stuff or you don’t. You are an intellectually dishonest lowlife. If you can’t keep track of your own poorly-constructed opinions, why should anyone take you seriously? Oh. Wait. That’s right. They don’t. You are increasingly the laughing stock of the MR community, and quite possibly the internet itself, even far surpassing that fat kid on YouTube playing with light sabers. Go take a shit.

What the hell are you doing on a Journey discussion board if you are that ill-tempered toward the band and those who listen to the music? I really do think it's solely for the reason to pick fights and to post pictures of tacos, which by the way is the closest you'll ever get to a "real" taco. Excuse me, but if I'm the laughing stock of the MR community, what does that really matter? That is about as insignificant as your genitalia.

Oh please. Even Neal thinks his own band is cheesy.

Yeah right! Neal thinks his band is cheesy. Yet, he's fought so hard to keep it going for 30+ years. You are a complete moron.

I’m not the guy balking at being asked to explain myself. I’ll tear you a new argumentative asshole, any day of the week. How does it feel to be my prison bitch? Now go turn tricks in the yard so I can buy a pack of Marlboros at the commissary.

Oh just shut the fuck up. Nobody here really takes you seriously nor cares for your incoherent ramblings. The only prison you get your kicks from is juvenile detention you sick pervert.

[hoagiepete]

Anyone find it amusing this exchange is taking place in a "Tantra v Butterfly" thread?

Resume.

[conversationpc]

Anyone find it amusing this exchange is taking place in a "Tantra v Butterfly" thread?

Resume.

Feel the love, man!

[hoagiepete]

Tantra musically isn't that bad. The vocals bring it down, primarily, again, because of a major diction problem. I know this has already been said, but it would be a perfect soundtrack clip for a Disney animated movie set in Asia. Butterfly for whatever reason never offended me. Kind of liked the change and was happy for Augeri to get a chance to contribute.

I'm not a hater. Arnel sounds really good on this CD for the most part. However, still can't help but think how good of a CD this would be if I was listening from a perspective it is a "The Neal Schon Band" project, along with a singer that has a little better grip on the English language.

Still drives me nuts that I keep hearing "HE'S a Mystery". Where is the damn "s" on about a third of the "she's"? I always stop and think, is he supposed to be singing "he?" I really like that song, but this ruins it. My wife even agrees and she's not a Journey fanatic.

[Jana]

It's one of those songs where the lyrics kill it for me.

How you manage to stomach anything from the Rolie-era, then, is beyond me.

The lyrics don't have to make sense if the music is good enough. When I start feeling the need to analyze what is being said, it's game over in Journey's case 99% of the time.

well, that might explain it. Lyrics are usually a make-it-or-break-it clause for me....which might explain the hatred of Homemade Love, and why I really like To Whom it May Concern--which seems to get about the same reaction here as Tantra.

Homemade Love I can't make it through. Love the album, but this song no.

[Greg]

Tantra musically isn't that bad. The vocals bring it down, primarily, again, because of a major diction problem. I know this has already been said, but it would be a perfect soundtrack clip for a Disney animated movie set in Asia. Butterfly for whatever reason never offended me. Kind of liked the change and was happy for Augeri to get a chance to contribute.

I'm not a hater. Arnel sounds really good on this CD for the most part. However, still can't help but think how good of a CD this would be if I was listening from a perspective it is a "The Neal Schon Band" project, along with a singer that has a little better grip on the English language.

Still drives me nuts that I keep hearing "HE'S a Mystery". Where is the damn "s" on about a third of the "she's"? I always stop and think, is he supposed to be singing "he?" I really like that song, but this ruins it. My wife even agrees and she's not a Journey fanatic.

I think the "Disney animated movie" vibe is one of the reasons why I do not like it. I mean, how can anybody say they think this song has teeth and not have pictures of something like Beauty and the Beast running through the noggin? Personally, I think Eclipse would have been much better without it. Why not have all rockers on it? Then again, I realize it was part of the "concept" of the album and some people think it's an awesome song.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Tantra musically isn't that bad. The vocals bring it down, primarily, again, because of a major diction problem. I know this has already been said, but it would be a perfect soundtrack clip for a Disney animated movie set in Asia. Butterfly for whatever reason never offended me. Kind of liked the change and was happy for Augeri to get a chance to contribute.

I'm not a hater. Arnel sounds really good on this CD for the most part. However, still can't help but think how good of a CD this would be if I was listening from a perspective it is a "The Neal Schon Band" project, along with a singer that has a little better grip on the English language.

Still drives me nuts that I keep hearing "HE'S a Mystery". Where is the damn "s" on about a third of the "she's"? I always stop and think, is he supposed to be singing "he?" I really like that song, but this ruins it. My wife even agrees and she's not a Journey fanatic.

I'm sorry people can hate the song for many reasons if you wish but come on! No there is not. I have no problem understanding it. Maybe it's because my ears are younger.

[hoagiepete]

Big difference between understanding something and something that sounds natural. Tantra is his worst effort on the CD. Again, voice is great, just the delivery of the lyrics.

I can't believe I'm the only one hearing him say He not She on She's a Mystery. I think I may have a defective CD.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Big difference between understanding something and something that sounds natural. Tantra is his worst effort on the CD. Again, voice is great, just the delivery of the lyrics.

I can't believe I'm the only one hearing him say He not She on She's a Mystery. I think I may have a defective CD.

I don't see your point with the natural bit at all. How does it not sound natural and what does that have to do with not understanding what he is saying

I don't want to make you cry but even Perry is hard to understand exactly what he says sometimes.

[hoagiepete]

Big difference between understanding something and something that sounds natural. Tantra is his worst effort on the CD. Again, voice is great, just the delivery of the lyrics.

I can't believe I'm the only one hearing him say He not She on She's a Mystery. I think I may have a defective CD.

I don't see your point with the natural bit at all. How does it not sound natural and what does that have to do with not understanding what he is saying

I don't want to make you cry but even Perry is hard to understand exactly what he says sometimes.

You previously said you can understand it fine. I can understand it, didn't say I couldn't. The vocals don't flow naturally. Can't explain it better than that. Someone nailed it earlier as it sounds like someone having to step out and do a solo in a vocal concert. Now...on He's a Mystery...yes, I can't hear the "S"he about a third of the time. Not on Tantra.

Regarding crying about Perry. Fuck off. I'm not a loon.

[steveo777]

Big difference between understanding something and something that sounds natural. Tantra is his worst effort on the CD. Again, voice is great, just the delivery of the lyrics.

I can't believe I'm the only one hearing him say He not She on She's a Mystery. I think I may have a defective CD.

I think he slipped and was staring at Cain when he sang "He's a mystery".
Actually, I don't hear it either and the song is delivered just fine.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Big difference between understanding something and something that sounds natural. Tantra is his worst effort on the CD. Again, voice is great, just the delivery of the lyrics.

I can't believe I'm the only one hearing him say He not She on She's a Mystery. I think I may have a defective CD.

I don't see your point with the natural bit at all. How does it not sound natural and what does that have to do with not understanding what he is saying

I don't want to make you cry but even Perry is hard to understand exactly what he says sometimes.

You previously said you can understand it fine. I can understand it, didn't say I couldn't. The vocals don't flow naturally. Can't explain it better than that. Someone nailed it earlier as it sounds like someone having to step out and do a solo in a vocal concert. Now...on He's a Mystery...yes, I can't hear the "S"he about a third of the time. Not on Tantra.

Regarding crying about Perry. Fuck off. I'm not a loon.[/quote]

But what I mean is, there are millions of songs (including Journey) where you miss hear lyrics, words and phrases,

[hoagiepete]

No disagreement from me on that one. I'm sure I still sing along to the wrong words to many of my favorites.

[steveo777]

Big difference between understanding something and something that sounds natural. Tantra is his worst effort on the CD. Again, voice is great, just the delivery of the lyrics.

I can't believe I'm the only one hearing him say He not She on She's a Mystery. I think I may have a defective CD.

I don't see your point with the natural bit at all. How does it not sound natural and what does that have to do with not understanding what he is saying

I don't want to make you cry but even Perry is hard to understand exactly what he says sometimes.

You previously said you can understand it fine. I can understand it, didn't say I couldn't. The vocals don't flow naturally. Can't explain it better than that. Someone nailed it earlier as it sounds like someone having to step out and do a solo in a vocal concert. Now...on He's a Mystery...yes, I can't hear the "S"he about a third of the time. Not on Tantra.

Regarding crying about Perry. Fuck off. I'm not a loon.[/quote]

But what I mean is, there are millions of songs (including Journey) where you miss hear lyrics, words and phrases,

True and there will be people who just make it a point to pick on Arnel no matter what he sings. He get's cut
far less slack than anyone else has. It must be a bitch constantly having to measure up. He's not perfect and
the band could have gotten a far worse front man. I'm glad to have what we do at this point in the band's tenure.
I'm glad I am able to enjoy the music without having to nit pick every detail.

[KISSNTIME]

Tantra musically isn't that bad. The vocals bring it down, primarily, again, because of a major diction problem. I know this has already been said, but it would be a perfect soundtrack clip for a Disney animated movie set in Asia. Butterfly for whatever reason never offended me. Kind of liked the change and was happy for Augeri to get a chance to contribute.

I'm not a hater. Arnel sounds really good on this CD for the most part. However, still can't help but think how good of a CD this would be if I was listening from a perspective it is a "The Neal Schon Band" project, along with a singer that has a little better grip on the English language.

Still drives me nuts that I keep hearing "HE'S a Mystery". Where is the damn "s" on about a third of the "she's"? I always stop and think, is he supposed to be singing "he?" I really like that song, but this ruins it. My wife even agrees and she's not a Journey fanatic.

I think the "Disney animated movie" vibe is one of the reasons why I do not like it. I mean, how can anybody say they think this song has teeth and not have pictures of something like Beauty and the Beast running through the noggin? Personally, I think Eclipse would have been much better without it. Why not have all rockers on it? Then again, I realize it was part of the "concept" of the album and some people think it's an awesome song.

Keep up the good fight Greg. I'm right there with you.

Tantra is over-theatrical bs. People keep throwing out other, older Journey songs to compare it to, but IMO Journey has never gone over the edge before like they did in Tantra. i've actually had to make a new Playlist in iTunes for Eclipse, just so that I can delete Tantra from playing when I listen to the album.

Tantra may just be the first song by Journey that I've ever actually hated (and I have everything they've done). I may like some songs more than others, but no other Journey song has ever induced the gag reflex like Tantra does.

If you like Andrew Lloyd Webber, you probably LOVE Tantra.

[KISSNTIME]

People hating Tantra just don't have a fuckin clue about music in general...

This is the stupidest quote I've seen on a message board in a long time. I've worked for a record company, managed 4 record stores and have over 5,000 CDs. I've been to more concerts than most people have masterbated. I don't know much, but I think I might just know a thing or two about music. To me, Tantra is easily one of the very worst songs I've ever heard. Any band. Ever. IMO, Tantrid is a horrid, horrid song.

Just because you have a contrary point of view, doesn't mean everyone else doesn't know what they're talking about. Obviously, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

[The_Noble_Cause]

To me, Tantra is easily one of the very worst songs I've ever heard. Any band. Ever. IMO, Tantrid is a horrid, horrid song.

Just like fanboys that whine "Worst. Movie. Ever." about every other movie that comes down the pike, you pretty much lose all credibility when you throw down this card. Turn on your radio. There's far worst songs out right now in heavy rotation. The theatrical element of Tantra is overstated. In some ways, it could easily fit alongside "Still She Cries" on TBF. It's not that dramatic a deviation from Journey's past sound. Neither is Eclipse is general. If "Gone Crazy" or "Baby I'm A Leaving You" didn't earn Journey the award for "worst song ever heard", why should Tantra? IMO nothing Cain/Schon has ever written qualifies as a truly horrible song. As Andrew said, the fact that this album has sparked such lively debate is a good thing.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

To me, Tantra is easily one of the very worst songs I've ever heard. Any band. Ever. IMO, Tantrid is a horrid, horrid song.

Just like fanboys that whine "Worst. Movie. Ever." about every other movie that comes down the pike, you pretty much lose all credibility when you throw down this card.

Yeah, I don't care what your "music expert" credentials are - you cannot say that and maintain any credibility. Seriously? I'm not a huge fan of the song, but it's in no way one of the very worst songs I've ever heard.