The time has come to fire Francona

[Seven Wishes2]

Release Wakefield and Slackey, and trade Shitsuzaka to the Indians for a 19th round pick. Call up Bowden and Dubront. Problem solved.

This team can't afford to have a guaranteed loss when the 4 and 5 guys in the rotation are due.

[S2M]

A LOT of money comes off the books next year....most importantly, JD Drewsless and his 14 mil/per. I've seen more emotion from Steven Wright.

Sox will be fine.....Daisuke was a mistake. a VERY expensive mistake. Wake eats innings, and that's all he's been for the past 5 years, an inning eater.

Shalackey has personal issues....not all his fault. Marco Bootero needs to go bye-bye. We have Lowrie, and Jose IHaulAss.....

and Crawford is fucking useless...can't steal bases if you don't get on base, Carl.....

[S2M]

Sox got lucky tonight. If Pedroia doesn't draw that walk then Adrian is intentionally walked. That stolen base was the wrong call that late in Dustin's count. It should have happened earlier in the at bat, or not at all.....they got lucky.

[S2M]

Tonight may be the night. Red Sox had this game on LOCK. Cubs looking like a fucking Legion team....then T-Frank decides to put in fucking no name relievers in the game in the 8th. Albers? Morales? WTF?! Bard wasn't available?

This loss in entirely on Tito....ENTIRELY.

[Rockindeano]

Tonight may be the night. Red Sox had this game on LOCK. Cubs looking like a fucking Legion team....then T-Frank decides to put in fucking no name relievers in the game in the 8th. Albers? Morales? WTF?! Bard wasn't available?

This loss in entirely on Tito....ENTIRELY.

LOL. Bosox are the only AL East team to lose tonight. Hell, you are tied with the Rays and Jays now. Last place is only 2 games away. Come on Orioles!

[Saint John]

Tonight may be the night. Red Sox had this game on LOCK. Cubs looking like a fucking Legion team....then T-Frank decides to put in fucking no name relievers in the game in the 8th. Albers? Morales? WTF?! Bard wasn't available?

This loss in entirely on Tito....ENTIRELY.

Yeah, the 3 errors are his fault. Get a clue, Inspector Gadget. Successful teams spread their bullpen pitching out so they can be strong down the stretch. He was just doing that. And putting some of the lesser knowns in "pressure" situations (if such a thing exists in May!) is responsible. Find out now how they react and monitor progress ... if any. Or would you rather in September after Bard and Papelbon have pitched back to back days? The guy has 2 World Series rings as a manager and just last year you were licking his sack for manager of the year (At least I think you were). Now you want a manager that's OVER .500, with 2 rings and perhaps his finest managing job just LAST YEAR fired??? You're an idiot and the worst opinion in all of the sports world. You're to intelligent sports conversation what Tracie Lords is to virginity!

[Rockindeano]

That's a heady post Dan. Frankly, these Chowd fans, 7 Wishes and S2M panick way too fucking easy. They were calling for TF's beheading when the Sox came out 2-9. Hell, they were in 1st place last week. Refuckinglax. Francona is a top tier Mgr, and anyone with baseball intelligence would confirm that. Hell, would you rather have that manic blow up every other inning spazz in South Chicago, or Francona? How bout that stupid fuck Mattingly in LA who made two fucking trips to the mound and had to pull his starter because he didn't know the fucking rules? Francona is as good as it gets. He is up there with Tracy, Gerardi, Scoscia and that old fuck Schowalter.

[Saint John]

That's a heady post Dan. Frankly, these Chowd fans, 7 Wishes and S2M panick way too fucking easy. They were calling for TF's beheading when the Sox came out 2-9. Hell, they were in 1st place last week. Refuckinglax. Francona is a top tier Mgr, and anyone with baseball intelligence would confirm that. Hell, would you rather have that manic blow up every other inning spazz in South Chicago, or Francona? How bout that stupid fuck Mattingly in LA who made two fucking trips to the mound and had to pull his starter because he didn't know the fucking rules? Francona is as good as it gets. He is up there with Tracy, Gerardi, Scoscia and that old fuck Schowalter.

Excellent points, though I do tend to like Ozzie Guiilen. And mind you, I root and pray (it's really the only time I ever do) that their plane crashes every road trip they take. I wouldn't root for the White Sox against the Taliban.

[Rockindeano]

That's a heady post Dan. Frankly, these Chowd fans, 7 Wishes and S2M panick way too fucking easy. They were calling for TF's beheading when the Sox came out 2-9. Hell, they were in 1st place last week. Refuckinglax. Francona is a top tier Mgr, and anyone with baseball intelligence would confirm that. Hell, would you rather have that manic blow up every other inning spazz in South Chicago, or Francona? How bout that stupid fuck Mattingly in LA who made two fucking trips to the mound and had to pull his starter because he didn't know the fucking rules? Francona is as good as it gets. He is up there with Tracy, Gerardi, Scoscia and that old fuck Schowalter.

Excellent points, though I do tend to like Ozzie Guiilen. And mind you, I root and pray (it's really the only time I ever do) that their plane crashes every road trip they take. I wouldn't root for the White Sox against the Taliban.

I agree with you 1000%. I HATE the Chisox and that's without RobbieG being a loyal fan. I DO hope he falls into a river of acid and gets eaten by a school of piranha.

[Saint John]

That's a heady post Dan. Frankly, these Chowd fans, 7 Wishes and S2M panick way too fucking easy. They were calling for TF's beheading when the Sox came out 2-9. Hell, they were in 1st place last week. Refuckinglax. Francona is a top tier Mgr, and anyone with baseball intelligence would confirm that. Hell, would you rather have that manic blow up every other inning spazz in South Chicago, or Francona? How bout that stupid fuck Mattingly in LA who made two fucking trips to the mound and had to pull his starter because he didn't know the fucking rules? Francona is as good as it gets. He is up there with Tracy, Gerardi, Scoscia and that old fuck Schowalter.

Excellent points, though I do tend to like Ozzie Guiilen. And mind you, I root and pray (it's really the only time I ever do) that their plane crashes every road trip they take. I wouldn't root for the White Sox against the Taliban.

I agree with you 1000%. I HATE the Chisox and that's without RobbieG being a loyal fan. I DO hope he falls into a river of acid and gets eaten by a school of piranha.

I've invited the guy to introduce himself more than once at various events. He made up last minute excuses. For that, I have zero respect for him ... until he shows up. We're a motley, yet inclusive, bunch.

[S2M]

That's a heady post Dan. Frankly, these Chowd fans, 7 Wishes and S2M panick way too fucking easy. They were calling for TF's beheading when the Sox came out 2-9. Hell, they were in 1st place last week. Refuckinglax. Francona is a top tier Mgr, and anyone with baseball intelligence would confirm that. Hell, would you rather have that manic blow up every other inning spazz in South Chicago, or Francona? How bout that stupid fuck Mattingly in LA who made two fucking trips to the mound and had to pull his starter because he didn't know the fucking rules? Francona is as good as it gets. He is up there with Tracy, Gerardi, Scoscia and that old fuck Schowalter.

Red Sox weren't in 1st place last week....the closest they've been is .5 games out....think before you post.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Hey where did the angry anti Francona mob go with their nooses and clenched fists ? I guess we cant string up when the Sox are on fire.

[Saint John]

Tonight may be the night. Red Sox had this game on LOCK. Cubs looking like a fucking Legion team....then T-Frank decides to put in fucking no name relievers in the game in the 8th. Albers? Morales? WTF?! Bard wasn't available?

This loss in entirely on Tito....ENTIRELY.

First place, dipshit.

[S2M]

Tonight may be the night. Red Sox had this game on LOCK. Cubs looking like a fucking Legion team....then T-Frank decides to put in fucking no name relievers in the game in the 8th. Albers? Morales? WTF?! Bard wasn't available?

This loss in entirely on Tito....ENTIRELY.

First place, dipshit.

They've been in first place since last Thursday, fuckface....and all alone in first since Friday.

[S2M]

HP umpire in tonight's game needs fucking Lasik....he's a complete joke. 1st base ump could use some too...Cameron had that ball.

[S2M]

The time is NOW....Leaving Shalackey in to pitch the 7th? Really Fran-Coma? He barely made it out of the 6th. Seriously? And gives up a bomb to Ibanez!!!! FTW!!!!

[Saint John]

The time is NOW....Leaving Shalackey in to pitch the 7th? Really Fran-Coma? He barely made it out of the 6th. Seriously? And gives up a bomb to Ibanez!!!! FTW!!!!

What kind of moron would take out his pitcher in a 1-1 game with a pitch count in the 80's? You really seem to know very little about baseball. Saving your bullpen is one of the key things down the stretch and unnecessarily taking out your pitcher is a great way to tax the bullpen when it isn't warranted. Lackey pitched well, but was bested by someone that was better tonight. 2-1 ... it happens. Learn the game, dude.

[Seven Wishes2]

Ebbs and flows. We're in a downward trend right now. Won't last.

[S2M]

The time is NOW....Leaving Shalackey in to pitch the 7th? Really Fran-Coma? He barely made it out of the 6th. Seriously? And gives up a bomb to Ibanez!!!! FTW!!!!

What kind of moron would take out his pitcher in a 1-1 game with a pitch count in the 80's? You really seem to know very little about baseball. Saving your bullpen is one of the key things down the stretch and unnecessarily taking out your pitcher is a great way to tax the bullpen when it isn't warranted. Lackey pitched well, but was bested by someone that was better tonight. 2-1 ... it happens. Learn the game, dude.

I know the game, Dan...in fact, that IS my game. Down the stretch is no different than right now. Lackey sucks, plain and simple. Francona just doesn't have the edge anymore. Period. And then Lackey came out for the 8th too!!! Stop preaching the book, Dan...everything doesn't always have to go by the numbers...a reliever throwing 15 pitches in the 7th inning isn't going to ruin anything down the stretch. Anytime you wanna discuss just how little I know about the game of baseball, just let me know....I'll be more than happy to take you to school.

I'm overly analytical, by nature....so i study managerial moves quite often. The game the night before? That was a winable(sp) game...Lee didn't pitch THAT well. Terry put together a horrid lineup, and he played lousy strategy. Like I said, whenever you want to throw down - let me know. Until then.....shut your urine hole....

[conversationpc]

The time is NOW....Leaving Shalackey in to pitch the 7th? Really Fran-Coma? He barely made it out of the 6th. Seriously? And gives up a bomb to Ibanez!!!! FTW!!!!

What kind of moron would take out his pitcher in a 1-1 game with a pitch count in the 80's? You really seem to know very little about baseball. Saving your bullpen is one of the key things down the stretch and unnecessarily taking out your pitcher is a great way to tax the bullpen when it isn't warranted. Lackey pitched well, but was bested by someone that was better tonight. 2-1 ... it happens. Learn the game, dude.

I know the game, Dan...in fact, that IS my game. Down the stretch is no different than right now. Lackey sucks, plain and simple. Francona just doesn't have the edge anymore. Period. And then Lackey came out for the 8th too!!! Stop preaching the book, Dan...everything doesn't always have to go by the numbers...a reliever throwing 15 pitches in the 7th inning isn't going to ruin anything down the stretch. Anytime you wanna discuss just how little I know about the game of baseball, just let me know....I'll be more than happy to take you to school.

I'm overly analytical, by nature....so i study managerial moves quite often. The game the night before? That was a winable(sp) game...Lee didn't pitch THAT well. Terry put together a horrid lineup, and he played lousy strategy. Like I said, whenever you want to throw down - let me know. Until then.....shut your urine hole....

Francona made the right call, as Dan pointed out.

[Saint John]

No point in arguing with our resident sport's malcontent, Dave. He knows nothing about managing and the rigors of a baseball season. My guess is that he's a fantasy guru and stats whore. I've been involved in the game for virtually my entire life, played 4 years in college, coached high school kids, have done clinics and know quite a few scouts. To a man, every single one of them would exit the conversation with laughter and amazement at someone claiming to know the game and calling for Francona's firing. And *I* can admit that Francona knows way more than I ever will.

Terry Francona guy comes from a baseball family, played the game and has 2 rings as a manager. It's idiotic, illogical and shows the general game-to-game jockying that someone not mentally built with the psyche needed to see the bigger picture and prepare for a playoff stretch run. But, Dave, I can assure you this; there were probably similar calls by our resident belly acher before Francona's first title and second title. The guy just never stops complaining. Most people that find themselves confused by, or ignorant to the dynamics of, something usually act this way, though. Sean, relative to Terry Francona, you don't know shit about baseball, and your silly tantrums calling for his dismissal are certifiable proof of that. And I'm not interested in sitting down with you today or anytime in the future to listen to you puke up stat after stat. That doesn't mean shit. But calling for the removal of one of the game's best managers does. And that's all I need to know about your "knowledge" of the game.

[S2M]

The time is NOW....Leaving Shalackey in to pitch the 7th? Really Fran-Coma? He barely made it out of the 6th. Seriously? And gives up a bomb to Ibanez!!!! FTW!!!!

What kind of moron would take out his pitcher in a 1-1 game with a pitch count in the 80's? You really seem to know very little about baseball. Saving your bullpen is one of the key things down the stretch and unnecessarily taking out your pitcher is a great way to tax the bullpen when it isn't warranted. Lackey pitched well, but was bested by someone that was better tonight. 2-1 ... it happens. Learn the game, dude.

I know the game, Dan...in fact, that IS my game. Down the stretch is no different than right now. Lackey sucks, plain and simple. Francona just doesn't have the edge anymore. Period. And then Lackey came out for the 8th too!!! Stop preaching the book, Dan...everything doesn't always have to go by the numbers...a reliever throwing 15 pitches in the 7th inning isn't going to ruin anything down the stretch. Anytime you wanna discuss just how little I know about the game of baseball, just let me know....I'll be more than happy to take you to school.

I'm overly analytical, by nature....so i study managerial moves quite often. The game the night before? That was a winable(sp) game...Lee didn't pitch THAT well. Terry put together a horrid lineup, and he played lousy strategy. Like I said, whenever you want to throw down - let me know. Until then.....shut your urine hole....

Francona made the right call, as Dan pointed out.

And I'm sure Grady Little made the 'right' call leaving Pedro in in 2003.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

The time is NOW....Leaving Shalackey in to pitch the 7th? Really Fran-Coma? He barely made it out of the 6th. Seriously? And gives up a bomb to Ibanez!!!! FTW!!!!

What kind of moron would take out his pitcher in a 1-1 game with a pitch count in the 80's? You really seem to know very little about baseball. Saving your bullpen is one of the key things down the stretch and unnecessarily taking out your pitcher is a great way to tax the bullpen when it isn't warranted. Lackey pitched well, but was bested by someone that was better tonight. 2-1 ... it happens. Learn the game, dude.

I know the game, Dan...in fact, that IS my game. Down the stretch is no different than right now. Lackey sucks, plain and simple. Francona just doesn't have the edge anymore. Period. And then Lackey came out for the 8th too!!! Stop preaching the book, Dan...everything doesn't always have to go by the numbers...a reliever throwing 15 pitches in the 7th inning isn't going to ruin anything down the stretch. Anytime you wanna discuss just how little I know about the game of baseball, just let me know....I'll be more than happy to take you to school.

I'm overly analytical, by nature....so i study managerial moves quite often. The game the night before? That was a winable(sp) game...Lee didn't pitch THAT well. Terry put together a horrid lineup, and he played lousy strategy. Like I said, whenever you want to throw down - let me know. Until then.....shut your urine hole....

Francona made the right call, as Dan pointed out.

And I'm sure Grady Little made the 'right' call leaving Pedro in in 2003.

yeah but Terry Francona isnt Grady little, - and with Grady's that was game seven of the ALCS where there was no game tomorrow where you had to have a rested reliever so it was absolutely a boner.

[S2M]

No point in arguing with our resident sport's malcontent, Dave. He knows nothing about managing and the rigors of a baseball season. My guess is that he's a fantasy guru and stats whore. I've been involved in the game for virtually my entire life, played 4 years in college, coached high school kids, have done clinics and know quite a few scouts. To a man, every single one of them would exit the conversation with laughter and amazement at someone claiming to know the game and calling for Francona's firing. And *I* can admit that Francona knows way more than I ever will.

Terry Francona guy comes from a baseball family, played the game and has 2 rings as a manager. It's idiotic, illogical and shows the general game-to-game jockying that someone not mentally built with the psyche needed to see the bigger picture and prepare for a playoff stretch run. But, Dave, I can assure you this; there were probably similar calls by our resident belly acher before Francona's first title and second title. The guy just never stops complaining. Most people that find themselves confused by, or ignorant to the dynamics of, something usually act this way, though. Sean, relative to Terry Francona, you don't know shit about baseball, and your silly tantrums calling for his dismissal are certifiable proof of that. And I'm not interested in sitting down with you today or anytime in the future to listen to you puke up stat after stat. That doesn't mean shit. But calling for the removal of one of the game's best managers does. And that's all I need to know about your "knowledge" of the game.

Dan, here's a little counter-argument for ya: I've nailed two pieces of wood together, I've asked a friend to borrow a saw. I've built a soapbox derby car, I've walk into a Home Depot, and i know a couple of contractors....having done all that, does that make me knowledgeable enough to oversee the building of an office highrise?

I wouldn't care if you personally knew Francoma. Fact is he makes strategic mistakes in games. He's been personally responsible for at least 6 or 7 loses this season. Not one stolen base last night, yet there was a right-handed pitcher on the mound. 2 extra base hits in the last 2 games(one was from Lackey) and they didn't feel the need to steal bases. Ellsbury's in a mini-slump, yet he doesn't attempt to bunt for a single, steal 2nd, and get into scoring position. Games in May, June, and July are as important as games in Sept. and October. Cause if you do your best to win these early games - those later games don't mean as much. Francona is a decent manager. If I had to pick a couple of criticisms of him, I'd say he favors verterans TOO much. And his in-game management is most times horrific. He coaches great with a 10-run lead. But when facing upper echelon pitchers(Lee, Halladay, Verlander, C.C., Lincecum) he tends to shit a brick. He knows runs are going to be at a premium facing those pitchers but he insists on trying to mash the ball. God forbid he asks one of his bombers to bunt. Egads! Will the world end if Ortiz bunts against the shift? How many times do you need to see Scutaro pop up weakly to 2nd before you get that mope out of the lineup? How many times does a batter have to get out on a 3-0 pitch before he tells the guy, 'A Walk is as good as a single'...Ortiz looked at 3 strikes right down the middle of the plate last night and didn't lift the bat off his shoulders...looks like a guy who can't pull the trigger. Wow, not playing against SD, and only getting 2 ABs in the Pitt series was the right call, Terry....

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

No point in arguing with our resident sport's malcontent, Dave. He knows nothing about managing and the rigors of a baseball season. My guess is that he's a fantasy guru and stats whore. I've been involved in the game for virtually my entire life, played 4 years in college, coached high school kids, have done clinics and know quite a few scouts. To a man, every single one of them would exit the conversation with laughter and amazement at someone claiming to know the game and calling for Francona's firing. And *I* can admit that Francona knows way more than I ever will.

Terry Francona guy comes from a baseball family, played the game and has 2 rings as a manager. It's idiotic, illogical and shows the general game-to-game jockying that someone not mentally built with the psyche needed to see the bigger picture and prepare for a playoff stretch run. But, Dave, I can assure you this; there were probably similar calls by our resident belly acher before Francona's first title and second title. The guy just never stops complaining. Most people that find themselves confused by, or ignorant to the dynamics of, something usually act this way, though. Sean, relative to Terry Francona, you don't know shit about baseball, and your silly tantrums calling for his dismissal are certifiable proof of that. And I'm not interested in sitting down with you today or anytime in the future to listen to you puke up stat after stat. That doesn't mean shit. But calling for the removal of one of the game's best managers does. And that's all I need to know about your "knowledge" of the game.

Dan, here's a little counter-argument for ya: I've nailed two pieces of wood together, I've asked a friend to borrow a saw. I've built a soapbox derby car, I've walk into a Home Depot, and i know a couple of contractors....having done all that, does that make me knowledgeable enough to oversee the building of an office highrise?

I wouldn't care if you personally knew Francoma. Fact is he makes strategic mistakes in games. He's been personally responsible for at least 6 or 7 loses this season. Not one stolen base last night, yet there was a right-handed pitcher on the mound. 2 extra base hits in the last 2 games(one was from Lackey) and they didn't feel the need to steal bases. Ellsbury's in a mini-slump, yet he doesn't attempt to bunt for a single, steal 2nd, and get into scoring position. Games in May, June, and July are as important as games in Sept. and October. Cause if you do your best to win these early games - those later games don't mean as much. Francona is a decent manager. If I had to pick a couple of criticisms of him, I'd say he favors verterans TOO much. And his in-game management is most times horrific. He coaches great with a 10-run lead. But when facing upper echelon pitchers(Lee, Halladay, Verlander, C.C., Lincecum) he tends to shit a brick. He knows runs are going to be at a premium facing those pitchers but he insists on trying to mash the ball. God forbid he asks one of his bombers to bunt. Egads! Will the world end if Ortiz bunts against the shift? How many times do you need to see Scutaro pop up weakly to 2nd before you get that mope out of the lineup? How many times does a batter have to get out on a 3-0 pitch before he tells the guy, 'A Walk is as good as a single'...Ortiz looked at 3 strikes right down the middle of the plate last night and didn't lift the bat off his shoulders...looks like a guy who can't pull the trigger. Wow, not playing against SD, and only getting 2 ABs in the Pitt series was the right call, Terry....

Yeah now make a list of all of Franconas strengths and all of the RIGHT calls Francona has made over seven years. Here's a memorable one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnqbf2Vpv0

[S2M]

Yeah now make a list of all of Franconas strengths and all of the RIGHT calls Francona has made over seven years. Here's a memorable one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnqbf2Vpv0

Yep, and that one is dying of loneliness....I challenge you to come up with 2 others. And BTW, I hardly count that as a genius move. They were pretty much dead at that point. That was more Dave's skill as a base stealer than a great move by T-Frank...

Here's the litmus test for a move like that. Would you have done the same thing in the same situation? If the answer is yes then it is a common sense move, and therefore doesn't need to be labeled as some special, genius move...

Also, a move has an inherent good or bad attached to it that is seperate from the outcome of said move....letting Gonzo steal home is a bad move, irrespective of if he makes it home safe or not. Keeping Lackey in for the 7th and 8th innings is a risky move, regardless of the outcome.

[Saint John]

Yeah now make a list of all of Franconas strengths and all of the RIGHT calls Francona has made over seven years. Here's a memorable one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnqbf2Vpv0

Probably the greatest comeback in baseball history, off the game's greatest closer ever, but S2M wants him fired. And this guy, S2M, is the same dude that was whining that he was the best manager in baseball ... just last year!

[S2M]

Yeah now make a list of all of Franconas strengths and all of the RIGHT calls Francona has made over seven years. Here's a memorable one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnqbf2Vpv0

Probably the greatest comeback in baseball history, off the game's greatest closer ever, but S2M wants him fired. And this guy, S2M, is the same dude that was whining that he was the best manager in baseball ... just last year!

I never said he was the best manager last year...I challenge YOU to find where I said that. I remember saying that the players sacked up and won 89 games with 2/3 of the opening day lineup on the DL....come strong, or don't come at all, Z....

[Saint John]

I never said he was the best manager last year...I challenge YOU to find where I said that.

Just like debating you in baseball, this is way too easy:

"Francona deserved the MLB COY last year but didn't get it ... "

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... 06#4552306

[S2M]

I never said he was the best manager last year...I challenge YOU to find where I said that.

Just like debating you in baseball, this is way too easy:

"Francona deserved the MLB COY last year but didn't get it ... "

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... 06#4552306

Cherry Picker! How about quoting the rest of the statement.

Again, I don't quite buy that coaching has ANYTHING to do with wins in baseball. Other than knowing/not knowing when to pull a pitcher

I didn't think he really deserved the COY, I just thought that using the criteria that the league usually uses to determine COY - Francona should have gotten it. But I truly didn't care one way or another.