Why Elipse flopped for the average fan

[Greg]

I've been a Journey fan for 30 years, and while I really, really wanted to like this album, the truth is, in my opinion, it's very forgettable. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Eclipse turns out to be Journey's last studio album. I understand that Andrew and others think it's terrific and that's fine. I respect everyone's opinions. I just can't get into it, personally. For my money, the best album of the year so far is Trinity by Eden's Curse.

I'm with ya on Eclipse. I haven't heard Trinity yet. I'm still waiting to see how this next Loverboy album is going to sound. Their last album was awesome!

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm still waiting to see how this next Loverboy album is going to sound. Their last album was awesome!

Is this confirmed yet? I know they just did a few new tracks in the studio - i thought maybe they would just release a digital download or an EP or something. As great as their last album was, it flopped pretty spectatcularly.

[Greg]

I'm still waiting to see how this next Loverboy album is going to sound. Their last album was awesome!

Is this confirmed yet? I know they just did a few new tracks in the studio - i thought maybe they would just release a digital download or an EP or something. As great as their last album was, it flopped pretty spectatcularly.

Not sure. I heard a new track and it sounded pretty good. I'm assuming they're on their way to making another full length follow up. These AOR bands really need a radio station (terrestrial radio) that caters to their style of music. The adult contemporary stations and classic rock stations aren't cutting it. We have top 40 stations, country stations, classic rock stations, hip hop/rap stations, hard rock stations, but no stations specifically for AOR music. Maybe it's not worth the time, effort, and capital to put into such a project, but it would be interesting to see who would tune in and listen on a regular basis --- besides of course those of us who follow music forums such as this one.

[jestor92]

Eclipse flopped for the average fan because it's a weak effort. Don't get me wrong musically it's a bad ass record. Lyrically and vocally it's bad in a lot of places.

[xflajrnylvr]

Well I been a huge Journey fan since 1979 and Eclipse to me is bland. I own all their records and Eclipse just does not do it for me.

mY FEELINGS eXACTLY IT DOES NOTHING FOR ME

[Tito]

Average fan? It flopped for a lot of hardcore fans as well.

[Ritchie]

Eclipse flopped for the average fan because it's a weak effort. Don't get me wrong musically it's a bad ass record. Lyrically and vocally it's bad in a lot of places.

There are lots of new music productions which are lyrically and vocally "bad in a lot of places"..but it sells..because the artist is more popular and their promotion budget is extensive.
Journey missed the boat due to a lack of promotion of their new product...but maybe Eclipse will get some wings when the US tour is on its way.
Production wise they should have corrected some minor lyrical/vocal hickups more rigorously but all in all Pineda`s vocal delivery on Eclipse is solid

[The_Noble_Cause]

Eclipse flopped for the average fan because it's a weak effort. Don't get me wrong musically it's a bad ass record. Lyrically and vocally it's bad in a lot of places.

I doubt fans shyed away from the cd because of Cain's cheesy lyrics. He's been serving those up since forever. Vocally, I can't find any fault with Arnel's performance. The non-hardcore "average" Journey fan hasn't bought a new Journey album since ROR.

[Onestepper]

Eclipse flopped for the average fan because it's a weak effort. Don't get me wrong musically it's a bad ass record. Lyrically and vocally it's bad in a lot of places.

I doubt fans shyed away from the cd because of Cain's cheesy lyrics. He's been serving those up since forever. Vocally, I can't find any fault with Arnel's performance. The non-hardcore "average" Journey fan hasn't bought a new Journey album since ROR.

Agree. Was in a conversation last night with some friends that mentioned they are going to see the band later this month. I asked them what they thought of the new album. They both looked at me like I was nuts. They had no idea Journey had a new album out.

Game. Set. Match.

[Greg]

Eclipse flopped for the average fan because it's a weak effort. Don't get me wrong musically it's a bad ass record. Lyrically and vocally it's bad in a lot of places.

The average fan is not going to know Journey has an album out unless they frequent Melodic Rock websites and/or they spend a lot of time in the CD section at Wal-Mart. And, if the average fan already knows that Perry is not in the band, then they're probably not so quick on buying anything new from the band either.

I do agree though, I'm not a fan of the lyrical content of the songs on Eclipse. I'm not of the Hindu/Buddhist faith personally, so I don't get anything out of the lyrics. Vocally, there are times where I think Arnel is less than stellar, but there other times where he does a great job. I wouldn't go so far to say he's 100% perfect or bad either way. He shines on moments, and not so much on other moments. Overall, Eclipse is a great effort even though there are only four songs that I'd be able to play in constant rotation.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I do agree though, I'm not a fan of the lyrical content of the songs on Eclipse. I'm not of the Hindu/Buddhist faith personally, so I don't get anything out of the lyrics.

Aside from Tantra, I think Cain really oversold the concept album angle. While the lyrics are more spiritual in nature, and not about "boy meets girls/wedding bells", they are all somewhat generic and about love and relationships. I'm OK with this, but don't make it sound like the second coming of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. Tracks like "Someone" and "City of Hope" could fit on any Journey album.

[Saint John]

The average fan is not going to know Journey has an album out unless they frequent Melodic Rock websites and/or they spend a lot of time in the CD section at Wal-Mart.

This was a colossal failure on the part of the band and management to get the word out. When you release something only about once every 3 years, you'd think they'd leave no stone unturned. Instead, though, they crawled under a rock and let the album flop. But it's money out of their pockets, not mine. And they stood to make a lot of money on this album had it sold well. But no promotion and a high price tag will always doom you. I just can't believe that their management was so oblivious and could not see that. Or they (management) just don't care.

[Don]

The average fan is not going to know Journey has an album out unless they frequent Melodic Rock websites and/or they spend a lot of time in the CD section at Wal-Mart.

This was a colossal failure on the part of the band and management to get the word out. When you release something only about once every 3 years, you'd think they'd leave no stone unturned. Instead, though, they crawled under a rock and let the album flop. But it's money out of their pockets, not mine. And they stood to make a lot of money on this album had it sold well. But no promotion and a high price tag will always doom you. I just can't believe that their management was so oblivious and could not see that. Or they (management) just don't care.

This is very far fetched but I'll put it out there.
It could be that management want to dissuade the band from doing any more albums and by letting this record fail, they know it will keep the band on the road for the rest of their career, an endeavor that makes a lot of money for Live Nation and gets a couple of their other acts out there touring larger arenas too.

Totally ridiculous but I can't come up with any theory that makes sense.

[yulog]

The average fan is not going to know Journey has an album out unless they frequent Melodic Rock websites and/or they spend a lot of time in the CD section at Wal-Mart.

This was a colossal failure on the part of the band and management to get the word out. When you release something only about once every 3 years, you'd think they'd leave no stone unturned. Instead, though, they crawled under a rock and let the album flop. But it's money out of their pockets, not mine. And they stood to make a lot of money on this album had it sold well. But no promotion and a high price tag will always doom you. I just can't believe that their management was so oblivious and could not see that. Or they (management) just don't care.

How much is the cd? isn't it a 10 dollar buy? even with the abysmal cardboard cover 10 bucks doesn't seem like a high price tag.

[RedWingFan]

The average fan is not going to know Journey has an album out unless they frequent Melodic Rock websites and/or they spend a lot of time in the CD section at Wal-Mart.

This was a colossal failure on the part of the band and management to get the word out. When you release something only about once every 3 years, you'd think they'd leave no stone unturned. Instead, though, they crawled under a rock and let the album flop. But it's money out of their pockets, not mine. And they stood to make a lot of money on this album had it sold well. But no promotion and a high price tag will always doom you. I just can't believe that their management was so oblivious and could not see that. Or they (management) just don't care.

How much is the cd? isn't it a 10 dollar buy? even with the abysmal cardboard cover 10 bucks doesn't seem like a high price tag.

I agree. I wouldn't have had a problem laying down 10 bucks for it, if I hadn't heard it first. If I bought it now it would be more to complete my Journey collection rather than actually listening to it.

[Saint John]

How much is the cd? isn't it a 10 dollar buy? even with the abysmal cardboard cover 10 bucks doesn't seem like a high price tag.

In the grand scheme of things $10 isn't a bad price, but you have to look at your target audience when you have a Walmart exclusive. People that bought the highly successful Revelation got 3 discs for only $1.88 more, making this CD seem pricey. Also, you eliminate the impulse buys when you price one CD this high. Heck, look at how GH shot up the charts and sold 23k in one week when the price was lowered to $6.99. That was the right price for Eclipse. Had they promoted the thing, made a TV appearance, priced it right and made sure Walmart gave them the cardboard advertising, this thing would have sold 250k already. But because they didn't, it may never hit that number. But that's no one's fault but the band's and management's.

[AR]

Walmart also makes a lot of promises that they no longer deliver on. The days of how they hyped AC/DC and The Eagles exclusive releases are gone. Kiss was promised specialized areas which included all their merchandise (junk) along with their CD when that came out. Some stores did it, but it was rare. Almost everyone I went into around that time just stuck the CD in with everything else and no special displays. I'm not sure an exclusive deal with them is the way to go anymore.

[Greg]

I do agree though, I'm not a fan of the lyrical content of the songs on Eclipse. I'm not of the Hindu/Buddhist faith personally, so I don't get anything out of the lyrics.

Aside from Tantra, I think Cain really oversold the concept album angle. While the lyrics are more spiritual in nature, and not about "boy meets girls/wedding bells", they are all somewhat generic and about love and relationships. I'm OK with this, but don't make it sound like the second coming of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. Tracks like "Someone" and "City of Hope" could fit on any Journey album.

I agree with you on this. I think, if anything, that's what turned me off on the album more than anything else was Cain selling it as a Buddhist/Hindu concept album. No offense to anyone here who subscribes to that religion, it's just not in line with my beliefs. So, for me, I went into the album already feeling disconnected over the lyrical content. Maybe I should have not worried so much with that, but I think anytime someone writes music that is based on religion, that becomes a very personal subject. While many might appreciate it, there are a few who might feel very disconnected by it. Fortunately or unfortunately for me, I tend to be one who can't listen to a song without knowing what the song is all about and knowing the lyrics.

[Greg]

How much is the cd? isn't it a 10 dollar buy? even with the abysmal cardboard cover 10 bucks doesn't seem like a high price tag.

In the grand scheme of things $10 isn't a bad price, but you have to look at your target audience when you have a Walmart exclusive. People that bought the highly successful Revelation got 3 discs for only $1.88 more, making this CD seem pricey. Also, you eliminate the impulse buys when you price one CD this high. Heck, look at how GH shot up the charts and sold 23k in one week when the price was lowered to $6.99. That was the right price for Eclipse. Had they promoted the thing, made a TV appearance, priced it right and made sure Walmart gave them the cardboard advertising, this thing would have sold 250k already. But because they didn't, it may never hit that number. But that's no one's fault but the band's and management's.

And also keep in mind that Revelation was successful because one of those discs was a DVD concert and another one was the Greatest Hits, albeit re-recorded. Still a great price for a two-disc, one DVD package. But, being realistic, having a greatest hits CD priced at $6.99 is a no brainer. If more bands did that, I'd probably have everybody's greatest hits CDs. Having Eclipse priced at that probably would have moved more copies...not sure about 250K at this point though. I still believe without any type of real promotion, a CD won't sell even if it's a $1.99.

[Jana]

How much is the cd? isn't it a 10 dollar buy? even with the abysmal cardboard cover 10 bucks doesn't seem like a high price tag.

In the grand scheme of things $10 isn't a bad price, but you have to look at your target audience when you have a Walmart exclusive. People that bought the highly successful Revelation got 3 discs for only $1.88 more, making this CD seem pricey. Also, you eliminate the impulse buys when you price one CD this high. Heck, look at how GH shot up the charts and sold 23k in one week when the price was lowered to $6.99. That was the right price for Eclipse. Had they promoted the thing, made a TV appearance, priced it right and made sure Walmart gave them the cardboard advertising, this thing would have sold 250k already. But because they didn't, it may never hit that number. But that's no one's fault but the band's and management's.

I said from the get-go they needed to add a live album with it from the previous tour with the Revelation music and some of the extended songs on tour. And Revelation's artwork really stood out on the rack (loved it), and it looked more substantial since it was a three-pack. Eclipse's artwork while the concept was good, needed to be more vibrant in color. I felt more like orange and almost black, and needed to be less flimsy. Even the Seal album I ordered a while back to replace a 2004 album I scratched came in a cardboard sleeve holder but much more substantial than Eclipse. It was a three-part foldover. Eclipse's, when the disk is out, just stays kind of open because it's just a flimsy sleeve. It just seems so cheap.

[Gideon]

Alas, the "average fan" is missing out on quite a bit IMHO, though it can't be denied that this was a commercial disaster thanks to the (lack of) efforts of both band and management.

For my part, I've been going through Journey's catalog at work and Eclipse is still very strong. Lyrically, it's a tremendous improvement over anything they've ever done collectively bar TBF and the contributions of Jack Blades. Vocally, Arnel isn't a stand out or a commanding presence like prime!Perry was, but he's a terrific singer with an impressive voice. Musically, the only album that comes close in Journey's work is TBF.

[AR]

I haven't spun it in awhile, but to contribute anything to the discussion I have it on now.

The problem that hits me immediately is that this style of music appeals to me. And THAT is the problem. I am no one's target audience. Most music I like no one cares about.

For better or for worse Journey needs to appeal to GLEE, American Idol fans and people who watch Oprah. That's a fact.

If THIS had been the Soul SirkUS CD - it would have been considered a critical success without the expectations of large anmounts of sales.

[Gideon]

The problem that hits me immediately is that this style of music appeals to me. And THAT is the problem.

Only you would consider liking this thing to be a problem.

[AR]

The problem that hits me immediately is that this style of music appeals to me. And THAT is the problem.

Only you would consider liking this thing to be a problem.

For sales and appealing to the "average fan" as the thread states, then it is.

[Gideon]

The problem that hits me immediately is that this style of music appeals to me. And THAT is the problem.

Only you would consider liking this thing to be a problem.

For sales and appealing to the "average fan" as the thread states, then it is.

They made it abundantly clear that they didn't expect to court the interests of the average fan. And, with few exceptions, no band from this era can.

[AR]

The problem that hits me immediately is that this style of music appeals to me. And THAT is the problem.

Only you would consider liking this thing to be a problem.

For sales and appealing to the "average fan" as the thread states, then it is.

They made it abundantly clear that they didn't expect to court the interests of the average fan. And, with few exceptions, no band from this era can.

Well Neal made that clear anyway.

[Gideon]

Well Neal made that clear anyway.

And has Neal ever acted in such a manner as to convince you that he's dishonest?

[AR]

Well Neal made that clear anyway.

And has Neal ever acted in such a manner as to convince you that he's dishonest?

Yes directly in my presence on several occasions.

I give him credit for getting what he wanted on this CD. I can see why he was fought on it by Cain and most likely management though.

[Gideon]

Well Neal made that clear anyway.

And has Neal ever acted in such a manner as to convince you that he's dishonest?

Yes directly in my presence on several occasions.

I give him credit for getting what he wanted on this CD. I can see why he was fought on it by Cain and most likely management though.

[portland]

Actually it flopped because the average new fan could give a rats ass about new music from this incarnation of Journey.....they are at the concerts for what was.