Why Elipse flopped for the average fan

[Gideon]

Actually it flopped because the average new fan could give a rats ass about new music from this incarnation of Journey.....they are at the concerts for what was.

Guess that's why Perry's keeping a low profile on the new music dept., hmmm....

[portland]

Actually it flopped because the average new fan could give a rats ass about new music from this incarnation of Journey.....they are at the concerts for what was.

Guess that's why Perry's keeping a low profile on the new music dept., hmmm....

It has nothing to do with Perry actually.

[Gideon]

It has nothing to do with Perry actually.

It's a syllogism. If people aren't interested in new music from Journey, focusing on what was, that explains why Perry's not too keen on releasing music, right? I mean, he's even farther from "what was" than Journey themselves are right now.

[portland]

It has nothing to do with Perry actually.

It's a syllogism. If people aren't interested in new music from Journey, focusing on what was, that explains why Perry's not too keen on releasing music, right? I mean, he's even farther from "what was" than Journey themselves are right now.

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

[Gideon]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

[portland]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

Me too, but sadly we are the minority!

[Gideon]

Me too, but sadly we are the minority!

That's one way to look at it.
OR you can do what I do and realize that majorities and minorities are all inconsequential..... in the end, it's all about me!


Maybe I should run for office.....

[portland]

Me too, but sadly we are the minority!

That's one way to look at it.
OR you can do what I do and realize that majorities and minorities are all inconsequential..... in the end, it's all about me!


Maybe I should run for office.....

I think you are well on your way!!!

It's music it's subjective.....that's the truth of it...what moves me...might not move you.

[Gideon]

I think you are well on your way!!!

Good to know I can count on your vote.

It's music it's subjective.....that's the truth of it...what moves me...might not move you.

For the most part... we agree.

(Tell no one.)

[AR]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

[Gideon]

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

I actually am not fond of Cheap Trick. Dad loves them, but it never quite rubbed off one me. Neither did Triumph, blah.

[portland]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

I don't agree..I can't wait to see Whitesnake in August and love the new release.

[portland]

I think you are well on your way!!!

Good to know I can count on your vote.

It's music it's subjective.....that's the truth of it...what moves me...might not move you.

For the most part... we agree.

(Tell no one.)

Awww Giddy I heart U!!! Don't tell anyone!!

[AR]

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

I actually am not fond of Cheap Trick. Dad loves them, but it never quite rubbed off one me. Neither did Triumph, blah.

Trick recently replaced their original drummer Bun E Carlos in favor of Rick Neilsen's son. This actually was a good thing because it resulted in longer and more varied setlists. I have seen them over 30 times.

[Gideon]

I have seen them over 30 times.

Zander kicked ass live in '08, though. I do like "The Flame" and "Surrender."

[Jana]

Yulog is disappointed... as are many others... that doesn't mean "pissed off".

You're posts on the other hand.. ALL come off as pissy.... get over yourself..

Several albums have come out in the past year that dissapointed me. Guess what? I said my piece, debated with fans, and generally, bought something better. You guys, on the other hand, are actively rooting for the demise of the band itself. Any thread that can be derailed, has been derailed. It's not even about the music, as most of your points are dumb hyperbolic crap ("Eclipse is as radical as a bluegrass album"? "Tantra is the worst song since Emile Berliner invented the gramophone". Really? ). Like the pro-Perry maniacs that used to make this forum an intolerable shithole and hijack every thread, ur posts are just white noise spam.

For some posters on here, that's obviously true.

[AR]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

I don't agree..I can't wait to see Whitesnake in August and love the new release.

Whitesnake has had 2 good releases recently, but have been inactive for most of that time.

Warning - no one was happy with their setlist at the M3 Festival. Only 1 song off Slide It In

[portland]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

I don't agree..I can't wait to see Whitesnake in August and love the new release.

Whitesnake has had 2 good releases recently, but have been inactive for most of that time.

Warning - no one was happy with their setlist at the M3 Festival. Only 1 song off Slide It In

I know, they have had really good reviews as of late..I am looking forward to Hampton Beach August 21!!


IMHO.....Forevermore knocks Eclipse out of the park...but I am an original singers gal...and well Doug and Reb do more than a fine job.

[AR]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

I don't agree..I can't wait to see Whitesnake in August and love the new release.

Whitesnake has had 2 good releases recently, but have been inactive for most of that time.

Warning - no one was happy with their setlist at the M3 Festival. Only 1 song off Slide It In

I know, they have had really good reviews as of late..I am looking forward to Hampton Beach August 21!!

I'd give them another chance with an extended set and some song selection tweaking.

[portland]

I think you need to get into the shoes of the 40 somethings who grew up with the music....I have had this conversation with many of friends who want to go and see the dirty dozen and have NO interest in anything new at all!

I understand the perspective of you old folks just fine without seizing your footwear.

I just don't agree with it. I always want to hear new music from people: Journey, Queen, REO, Styx, etc. and, yes, even Perry himself.

Of all their peers, Cheap Trick has consistently recorded quality new CD's over the years.

I don't agree..I can't wait to see Whitesnake in August and love the new release.

Whitesnake has had 2 good releases recently, but have been inactive for most of that time.

Warning - no one was happy with their setlist at the M3 Festival. Only 1 song off Slide It In

I know, they have had really good reviews as of late..I am looking forward to Hampton Beach August 21!!

I'd give them another chance with an extended set and some song selection tweaking.

Look above.....I am sure that it will be a fine show.

[Arkansas]

So...

How many mainstream late-70s-early-mid-80s bands have made new albums that have sold millions? Oh, and let's add that the 'classic lineup' (the original money-making machine) isn't involved?

Kansas, Boston, REO, Styx, Foreigner, KISS, AC/DC, etc. None have done too well without tons of cash poured-in to promo. (And promo isn't just advertising, it's personal commitment by appearances, tv shows, mags, radio, internet, industry push, youth-gone-wild notoriety, et al.) That being said, if Journey had tons of cash, theirs or from a label, and all markets were saturated, then maybe, just MAYBE, this album would have sold better.

But there's the financial catch - how does anyone justify all such spending (financial & corp/personal time) if only to sell a few more records? Will the receipts out-weigh the spending? Can the total ROI ever be much? No one in their right mind (with a wallet) will take that chance.

And look at the work effort too. Let's say that in the end, after all the 'fans-know-better' promo, the investors actually make a few bucks. Was all the work really worth it? Oh, NO. You have to look at down-stream too. Can all this parlay into the next steps too? What are those next steps? Is there a wave of publicity to ride for awhile? Is there a quick follow-up record to perpetuate it all? And what are the financial gains of everything...if it's even remotely potential?

HH had this right when he once had the band's forecast - PR, tours, personnel, next album titles, etc. A young band has this all ahead of them, not a dinosaur band trying to break back in a current market. It's just not possible.

Now then, Revelation had an angle with a great story, a fresh WM deal, and a multi-CD product. But that was just an opportunity that only comes around for a few. Eclipse was merely an option on that deal. Even if they'd made another Revelation or Arrival, I submit to you that sales wouldn't have been any better.

later~

[AR]

Arkansas Kiss Sonic Boom sold well. Over 200,000 copies and only 8 minutes short of being double counted like Revelation. Charted #2 in it's debut week.

Very few if any sell millions anymore. Nature of the music business now of course.

[Arkansas]

Let me add, that Neal Schon is probably smarter than all us arm-chair-quarterback critics will concede.
NS probably had a head (& heart) full of music that wouldn't fly with a solo record, nor would it really sell as a 'classic Journey' record. But still, he had to get it out...in whatever way. I think he knew that a NSB record wouldn't go anywhere, so he took the opportunity to do an album of "what he always wanted to do" with a great band and singer.

Some of us will argue that it's not really Journey. And rightly so. But many of us will also argue that ROR wasn't really Journey either. Point being, (and Monker will argue!) Eclipse wasn't ever really meant to sell. It's just NS getting the s#it out of his system. And of course, the band will support him.

Recent JC interviews have said just as much. Cain has said this was Neal's record, and since he was supported back-in-the-day, he's supporting Neal today. Yeah, it's public politics, but it makes perfect sense.

Because of whatever, touring Journey still exists. RV has a nice pay check. AP has made it. And DC has his dream job.

What happens next year, or the next, is anyone's guess. But bottom line is, Neal Schon still has his band. Whether or not, I/we like Eclipse doesn't really matter much.


later~

[Arkansas]

Arkansas Kiss Sonic Boom sold well. Over 200,000 copies and only 8 minutes short of being double counted like Revelation. Charted #2 in it's debut week.

Very few if any sell millions anymore. Nature of the music business now of course.

Hey man, I'm with ya. My point was, that without Gene Simmons' Family Jewels tv show, KISS' extended tours, or all the guys in the news, it wouldn't have sold much. They too were fresh on the WM circuit.

Will KISS' next album sell? We'll see...


later~

[Arkansas]

Just another follow-up.

This album, Eclipse, hasn't really flopped.

Neal Schon finally made his Journey record. And what a cool time to do it. He's got Jonathan Cain in support, DC - one of the best rock drummers around, RV - a life long compadre, and this AP guy with such a huge sweet voice.

I mean, look at the timing. There's no major label expectation, like there would have been 20-something yrs ago, or even as close as 'Arrival'. (I think 'Red13' was the initial experiment...that actually precluded 'Eclipse'.) Although generally considered an aging rocker, NS is playing better than ever. Why not doc some heart-felt tunes while you still can?

They've said in so many ways, that the DD is still their touring mainstay, and that the GH is the entire org's cash cow.

I don't know what Journey can/will do next. Honestly, I'm a little excited to get the next NS solo records. Having all his records, and having followed his playing & performing since Santana, I'm a little miffed at what he has left. I mean, what can he play next that I haven't already heard...in some fashion or another?

But getting back to Eclipse... It could very well be Journey's "last hurrah". And in a sense, it's kinda fitting that the guy that started this whole mess gets the final say-so.

But of course, there's still Gregg Rolie, another Journey original. And, oh yeah, that Perry guy that brought all that money-making commercial success. Maybe the "last hurrah" hasn't happened yet.


later~

[slucero]

Actually they only booked 3 weeks with Shirley...... to do 5 songs..

I'm thinking thy were gonna do an EP... but got carried away writing in the studio....

[Jana]

Just another follow-up.

This album, Eclipse, hasn't really flopped.

Neal Schon finally made his Journey record. And what a cool time to do it. He's got Jonathan Cain in support, DC - one of the best rock drummers around, RV - a life long compadre, and this AP guy with such a huge sweet voice.

I mean, look at the timing. There's no major label expectation, like there would have been 20-something yrs ago, or even as close as 'Arrival'. (I think 'Red13' was the initial experiment...that actually precluded 'Eclipse'.) Although generally considered an aging rocker, NS is playing better than ever. Why not doc some heart-felt tunes while you still can?

They've said in so many ways, that the DD is still their touring mainstay, and that the GH is the entire org's cash cow.

I don't know what Journey can/will do next. Honestly, I'm a little excited to get the next NS solo records. Having all his records, and having followed his playing & performing since Santana, I'm a little miffed at what he has left. I mean, what can he play next that I haven't already heard...in some fashion or another?

But getting back to Eclipse... It could very well be Journey's "last hurrah". And in a sense, it's kinda fitting that the guy that started this whole mess gets the final say-so.

But of course, there's still Gregg Rolie, another Journey original. And, oh yeah, that Perry guy that brought all that money-making commercial success. Maybe the "last hurrah" hasn't happened yet.


later~

I think it is Journey's last full album and also glad Neal got to do artistically what he's wanted to do. That has to be fulfilling and it's a very solid album musically I enjoy with quite a few songs that are made for a live setting. I'm very excited to hear Resonate, Chain of Love, Edge of the Moment and Tantra live. Anything is Possible would be great, too. I do see maybe an EP several years down the road, hopefully. Who knows? I agreed with your earlier post. I think it was yours. If they had done a more Arrival or Revelation type album, it would have sold no more. Not enough people knew about the album, save Journey followers like us who were always going to buy it. None of my casual Journey fan friends knew, not one. Better promo in the store and maybe a TV ad, or TV appearance (Resonate - not City of Hope - on a TV show) would have gotten them somewhat better sales earlier on and/or a two-disk package deal.
But I really hope they do put out a live album down the road including the extended songs from their last tour.

[yandtguy]

My dream for a final record would be a true "family" album with as many past members as possible. It would be cool to hear Neal play on a George Tickner song or to hear Gregg sing a Journey song again. It would also be cool to hear Deen and Steve Smith on the same album. I know this won't happen, because of egos and contract nightmares, but Yes managed to release Union, which I know some people hate, but I really liked. It was cool to hear songs featuring different line-ups with some members appearing across most of the tracks. Weirder things have happened, though. I remember when Abraxas Pool got together. Who would have thought so many members of the classic Santana line-up would record a new album together?

Greg

[KingdomOfMan]

I expected something far heavier, but was quite relieved Eclipse came out sounded as it did. I don't see why, with a little more promotion, something like 'Anything Is Possible' couldn't elevate the album to greater success.

[Gideon]

And, oh yeah, that Perry guy that brought all that money-making commercial success. Maybe the "last hurrah" hasn't happened yet.

Who's that?
I'm pretty sure the only Perry in Journey's history was their iconic singer Steve. I'm unfamiliar, though, with the Perry who brought all of the success to Journey.