Religion & Morality

[Rick]

"We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid."

I agree completely.

Horrible generalization, and I'm particularly shocked that you would agree with this.

No kidding. Personally, I think sweeping generalizations are incontrovertible proof of stupidity, though it's clearly not as obvious to some of the people who post in this thread.

Yeah, my thinking is, if you want people to understand and respect your lifestyle, you should, at the very least, be accepting of others in the same way. Makes me just shake my head.

Rick,

Seriously mate, who are the ones making the judgements? Homosexuality is an expression of love and deserves the same respect and rights as any other. It is normally only the religious and Dan who think differently.

Hard to argue this point. Very well said. I guess it's just my ignorance that sees homosexuals as different. And in that, I guess I expect the same said to be more tolerant of other beliefs, because of their own. I'm working on my ignorance and intolerance. A work in progress, to be sure. Much respect to you for this post.

[conversationpc]

I'm hoping they can work out him being there. Talked to the organizer yesterday and they'd received no word on his health yet. Maybe Richard Dawkkens will do the horns in a pic?

[conversationpc]

However, what you tell your children in your home is, in my view, different to to what they should be taught in school and especially state funded schools. Children in school should not be made to worship god. They should learn about religion, but not taught to be religous.

There are very few that think children should be taught to be religious in public schools.

[artist4perry]

Then it seems you cannot tolerate anyone to believe in God or to have the choice to raise their children up as Christians.

Not sure how you draw that conclusion. It is your right to believe in god. It is a free country. You are also free to bring your kids up as you see fit, within the remit of the law. It is also within your right to make them grow up believing that the holocaust didn't happen, but you wouldn't expect Nazism to be taught in schools or for the school to assemble in front of a swastika every morning in order to pledge their allegence to the fuhrer.

They are not your children, it is not your decision.

I know.

By the way, my own children went to public school.

Interesting. Why?

I went to a christian Academy and a Christian University for two years, I had the time of my life at both, and enjoyed school very much. I started going there in the 9th grade.

I don't know what 9th grade is, but I don't think many 5 year olds get to choose where they go to school.

I will tell you that I learned a great deal in bible, mostly reading the scriptures and memory work on what it says.

I noticed and unfortunately that has lead to you abandoning reality and critical thinking.

It is not mandatory to attend these schools, you have to WANT to go, I am proud I attended there. I made lifelong friendships, and I had kind wonderful teachers who didn't mind helping you if you didn't understand something, because the ratio of student to teacher was smaller.

I suspect you only wanted to go there because you had already been brainwashed. Based on your understanding of scientific reasoning, scientific theory and evolution, which I have read across a number of threads, your education appears to have been extremely poor. However,this does to serve to illustrate my point.

It is a huge threat to America if all it can turn out of it's schools and colleges are people whose take on the world is totally remote from how the world really works. The understanding of evolution is but one example. Evolutionary theory is central to matters that affect our lives daily such as molecular biology, agriculture, biotechnology, conservation and even software development. These are issues that are vital for the survival of the human race. Examples of what this means in the real world are the scientists who develop new pesticides in response to pesticide resistant predators, scientists who develop antibiotics in response to resistant bacteria and scientists who develop plants (fruit & veg) that will grow in inhospitable climates.

Duncan, first off you cannot know my extent of knowledge over a forum board. That made me laugh out loud! I have had 6 and 1/2 years of college 4and 1/2 in a Public University. Because I don't want to spend countless hours spewing facts over evolution does not measure my intelligence. And since you never went to school where I did you cannot know what I learned now can you? Just because I learned something does not mean I have to believe in it. Some of evolutions facts I can agree with. Just not all. And some things scientists are not sure about themselves.
As for your insulting my intelligence I take it in stride. I don't sit around looking for your approval. I am quite secure in who I am as a person.

As for your insults in another thread about my art, that kind of shows me your childishness. Your mad at me because of my stances here in this thread so you attack my art? Personally I could care less about your opinion on that as well. As an artist I have dealt with critics. When I have so may great reviews from art directors, instructors, and other people in the art world I am hardly going to listen to someone who seems to lack art savoy. So pardon me if I care more about what the people in the know think of my work.

You ask me how I can draw the conclusion about your lack of tolerance to people of faith, I would guess it was because you seem so driven to make people think like you do on the subject. Also because you get so personal on it. You get mad and insult others. So that makes me think you have an issue with someone of faith.

The schools are private, with private funding, so it should not bother you what they teach. But they are controlled by the Government to be sure they teach things according to the government standards. They don't control the bible curriculum but they control all other curriculum. So again I still don't see how you can say what they do or do not teach.

My children went to public school because I personally cannot afford private. Wish now that I could. My son with his learning disabilities would have had more one on one assistance.

Prove that people who believe in God are less intelligent. Prove it. You cannot. You can get some scientists who hate religion who insinuate it, or believe it personally, but they cannot prove it. So much for that deep though Jack Handy.

I never said I don't like science or most science. I just don't agree with the stuff they have not proven. I actually did well in science. I really think the agenda for the atheist crowd is clear. Throw disparagement on those you find egregiously lacking in knowledge because they dare to disagree with you. That alone is a pompous anal retentive view of the world.

Duncan I have no problem with you personally. I have no problem with you having a different point of view. Is it truly necessary to belittle those who do not think like you do. Many highly intelligent people believe in God. It is just another way of looking at the world and how it formed. You should not get so bent out of shape over it. You don't have to buy into it or accept it. That is what choice is about.

And as far as brainwashed, my father gave me choices. He had me study all religions, and also I went to a public school till I was around 15. It was my choice. I am very glad I made it. Have a good day.[/quote]

[artist4perry]

One more thing to add. For those who claim superior knowledge over others, all humans use only 1/10th of the capacity of our brains. The older you get the more you understand you cannot know everything. There will always be someone smarter than you as far as storage of information in their head. But they cannot be all knowing in all subjects. To believe you do makes you foolish.

[parfait]

Then it seems you cannot tolerate anyone to believe in God or to have the choice to raise their children up as Christians.

Not sure how you draw that conclusion. It is your right to believe in god. It is a free country. You are also free to bring your kids up as you see fit, within the remit of the law. It is also within your right to make them grow up believing that the holocaust didn't happen, but you wouldn't expect Nazism to be taught in schools or for the school to assemble in front of a swastika every morning in order to pledge their allegence to the fuhrer.

They are not your children, it is not your decision.

I know.

By the way, my own children went to public school.

Interesting. Why?

I went to a christian Academy and a Christian University for two years, I had the time of my life at both, and enjoyed school very much. I started going there in the 9th grade.

I don't know what 9th grade is, but I don't think many 5 year olds get to choose where they go to school.

I will tell you that I learned a great deal in bible, mostly reading the scriptures and memory work on what it says.

I noticed and unfortunately that has lead to you abandoning reality and critical thinking.

It is not mandatory to attend these schools, you have to WANT to go, I am proud I attended there. I made lifelong friendships, and I had kind wonderful teachers who didn't mind helping you if you didn't understand something, because the ratio of student to teacher was smaller.

I suspect you only wanted to go there because you had already been brainwashed. Based on your understanding of scientific reasoning, scientific theory and evolution, which I have read across a number of threads, your education appears to have been extremely poor. However,this does to serve to illustrate my point.

It is a huge threat to America if all it can turn out of it's schools and colleges are people whose take on the world is totally remote from how the world really works. The understanding of evolution is but one example. Evolutionary theory is central to matters that affect our lives daily such as molecular biology, agriculture, biotechnology, conservation and even software development. These are issues that are vital for the survival of the human race. Examples of what this means in the real world are the scientists who develop new pesticides in response to pesticide resistant predators, scientists who develop antibiotics in response to resistant bacteria and scientists who develop plants (fruit & veg) that will grow in inhospitable climates.

Duncan, first off you cannot know my extent of knowledge over a forum board. That made me laugh out loud! I have had 6 and 1/2 years of college 4and 1/2 in a Public University. Because I don't want to spend countless hours spewing facts over evolution does not measure my intelligence. And since you never went to school where I did you cannot know what I learned now can you? Just because I learned something does not mean I have to believe in it. Some of evolutions facts I can agree with. Just not all. And some things scientists are not sure about themselves.
As for your insulting my intelligence I take it in stride. I don't sit around looking for your approval. I am quite secure in who I am as a person.

As for your insults in another thread about my art, that kind of shows me your childishness. Your mad at me because of my stances here in this thread so you attack my art? Personally I could care less about your opinion on that as well. As an artist I have dealt with critics. When I have so may great reviews from art directors, instructors, and other people in the art world I am hardly going to listen to someone who seems to lack art savoy. So pardon me if I care more about what the people in the know think of my work.

You ask me how I can draw the conclusion about your lack of tolerance to people of faith, I would guess it was because you seem so driven to make people think like you do on the subject. Also because you get so personal on it. You get mad and insult others. So that makes me think you have an issue with someone of faith.

The schools are private, with private funding, so it should not bother you what they teach. But they are controlled by the Government to be sure they teach things according to the government standards. They don't control the bible curriculum but they control all other curriculum. So again I still don't see how you can say what they do or do not teach.

My children went to public school because I personally cannot afford private. Wish now that I could. My son with his learning disabilities would have had more one on one assistance.

Prove that people who believe in God are less intelligent. Prove it. You cannot. You can get some scientists who hate religion who insinuate it, or believe it personally, but they cannot prove it. So much for that deep though Jack Handy.

I never said I don't like science or most science. I just don't agree with the stuff they have not proven. I actually did well in science. I really think the agenda for the atheist crowd is clear. Throw disparagement on those you find egregiously lacking in knowledge because they dare to disagree with you. That alone is a pompous anal retentive view of the world.

Duncan I have no problem with you personally. I have no problem with you having a different point of view. Is it truly necessary to belittle those who do not think like you do. Many highly intelligent people believe in God. It is just another way of looking at the world and how it formed. You should not get so bent out of shape over it. You don't have to buy into it or accept it. That is what choice is about.

And as far as brainwashed, my father gave me choices. He had me study all religions, and also I went to a public school till I was around 15. It was my choice. I am very glad I made it. Have a good day.

First: It's easily proven. Here's over 30 studies, ranging back to 1927, all showing the same thing; the religious are less intelligent. It's also easily shown when comparing national IQ levels to its percentage of religious - the more nonbelievers, the higher the IQ. This is all well known. http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/iq_relig.htm

Second: You've shown through your posts that you even lack an elementary understand of how science works. The Theory of Evolution is a fact. Just ask the The National Academy of Science (U.S.):
Scientists most often use the word "fact" to describe an observation. But scientists can also use fact to mean something that has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples. The occurrence of evolution in this sense is fact. Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence is so strong But I'm sure you and the church going folk know better than a whole scientific community.

Third: That we only use 1/10 of our brains is a urban myth, and a really stupid one.

Fourth:

[artist4perry]

Parfait, wasn't talking to you.

But thank you for proving my point. Your a pompous windbag. You think you are superior.
Thus proving your not.
And you can always find an atheist study to degrade anyone of faith because that is what they do. If they can't prove a point they insult.

As for my intelligence, again you cannot measure that. You cannot know from blogs my knowledge.

And as for your study unless you have surveyed the entire planet since the beginning of time your study is slightly skewed. The person who would do such a study would be my guess of the atheist belief, and had an agenda.

Seriously you guys are full of yourselves. You have your heads so far up your butts smelling your own brain matter you cannot see reason. What a waste of time to discuss anything with you.

[S2M]

Hmmm...so the true sign of intelligence is an imagination. Really?

So the individual(you) who sits outside a cave, and imagines that a pack of purple wolves with triple fat goose jackets lives inside - is more intelligent than the person who actually goes inside the cave and does hands-on observation, and determines that bats live inside?

[artist4perry]

Hmmm...so the true sign of intelligence is an imagination. Really?

So the individual(you) who sits outside a cave, and imagines that a pack of purple wolves with triple fat goose jackets lives inside - is more intelligent than the person who actually goes inside the cave and does hands-on observation, and determines that bats live inside?

If you have a problem with something Albert Einstein said take it up with him.

[verslibre]

First: It's easily proven. Here's over 30 studies, ranging back to 1927, all showing the same thing; the religious are less intelligent. It's also easily shown when comparing national IQ levels to its percentage of religious - the more nonbelievers, the higher the IQ. This is all well known.

It's also well-known that if you have one group of ten people, each with $10 in their pockets, for a total of $100, and a second group of ten people, in which nine people each have $10 and one person has $100, for a total of $190, "statistically" the recorded net worth of that second group will be significantly higher than the first group. Never mind the actual amount of money that is accounted for.

In other words, don't think there aren't a bunch of dumbshits dwelling among the ranks of the atheists.

[S2M]

Hmmm...so the true sign of intelligence is an imagination. Really?

So the individual(you) who sits outside a cave, and imagines that a pack of purple wolves with triple fat goose jackets lives inside - is more intelligent than the person who actually goes inside the cave and does hands-on observation, and determines that bats live inside?

If you have a problem with something Albert Einstein said take it up with him.

You quoted him, so you are therefore a proponent of what he said - or your wouldn't have used it. Plus you are an artist, meaning you are ruled by imagination.

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

[artist4perry]

Hmmm...so the true sign of intelligence is an imagination. Really?

So the individual(you) who sits outside a cave, and imagines that a pack of purple wolves with triple fat goose jackets lives inside - is more intelligent than the person who actually goes inside the cave and does hands-on observation, and determines that bats live inside?

If you have a problem with something Albert Einstein said take it up with him.

You quoted him, so you are therefore a proponent of what he said - or your wouldn't have used it. Plus you are an artist, meaning you are ruled by imagination.

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

I quoted him in respects to the arts. It is my signature and had nothing to do with the discussion.

Facts according to the prejudiced, and the pompous. It is not a fact, it is an opinion. And you know what they say about opinions.

Most inventors use imagination. You speak of it as a bad thing. So I guess Thomas Edison was stupid, so were the Wright Brothers............and on and on we go.

[verslibre]

Hmmm...so the true sign of intelligence is an imagination. Really?

So the individual(you) who sits outside a cave, and imagines that a pack of purple wolves with triple fat goose jackets lives inside - is more intelligent than the person who actually goes inside the cave and does hands-on observation, and determines that bats live inside?

If you have a problem with something Albert Einstein said take it up with him.

You quoted him, so you are therefore a proponent of what he said - or your wouldn't have used it. Plus you are an artist, meaning you are ruled by imagination.

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

Somebody could say you're less intelligent than they because you listen to shit like Journey instead of Brahms.

[verslibre]

Most inventors use imagination. You speak of it as a bad thing. So I guess Thomas Edison was stupid, so were the Wright Brothers............and on and on we go.

Now he's going to say they were atheists, hence their innovations. Mark my words.

[S2M]

Hmmm...so the true sign of intelligence is an imagination. Really?

So the individual(you) who sits outside a cave, and imagines that a pack of purple wolves with triple fat goose jackets lives inside - is more intelligent than the person who actually goes inside the cave and does hands-on observation, and determines that bats live inside?

If you have a problem with something Albert Einstein said take it up with him.

You quoted him, so you are therefore a proponent of what he said - or your wouldn't have used it. Plus you are an artist, meaning you are ruled by imagination.

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

I quoted him in respects to the arts. It is my signature and had nothing to do with the discussion.

Facts according to the prejudiced, and the pompous. It is not a fact, it is an opinion. And you know what they say about opinions.

Most inventors use imagination. You speak of it as a bad thing. So I guess Thomas Edison was stupid, so were the Wright Brothers............and on and on we go.

Did YOU invent 'god'? Didn't think so...The Wright brothers, and Edison did something with their imagination....they invented things we use everyday....if you are trying to draw a similarity in the world of religion....FAIL. I guess, for the most part, priests invented cool ways to diddle kids and keep their jobs. Other than that, religious imaginations are childish, backwards, and the red-headed stepchildren of the imagination world.

[artist4perry]

Most inventors use imagination. You speak of it as a bad thing. So I guess Thomas Edison was stupid, so were the Wright Brothers............and on and on we go.

Now he's going to say they were atheists, hence their innovations. Mark my words.

Regardless of faith or belief, it still took imagination to do what they did. Edison was considered to be addled in the brain. He had to be home schooled because someone thought he was stupid. He was far from it.

Flying was thought to be impossible, many people laughed at the Wright brothers...........till they flew.

So let them think me a fool. I am fine with that.

[artist4perry]

Hmmm...so the true sign of intelligence is an imagination. Really?

So the individual(you) who sits outside a cave, and imagines that a pack of purple wolves with triple fat goose jackets lives inside - is more intelligent than the person who actually goes inside the cave and does hands-on observation, and determines that bats live inside?

If you have a problem with something Albert Einstein said take it up with him.

You quoted him, so you are therefore a proponent of what he said - or your wouldn't have used it. Plus you are an artist, meaning you are ruled by imagination.

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

I quoted him in respects to the arts. It is my signature and had nothing to do with the discussion.

Facts according to the prejudiced, and the pompous. It is not a fact, it is an opinion. And you know what they say about opinions.

Most inventors use imagination. You speak of it as a bad thing. So I guess Thomas Edison was stupid, so were the Wright Brothers............and on and on we go.

Did YOU invent 'god'? Didn't think so...The Wright brothers, and Edison did something with their imagination....they invented things we use everyday....if you are trying to draw a similarity in the world of religion....FAIL. I guess, for the most part, priests invented cool ways to diddle kids and keep their jobs. Other than that, religious imaginations are childish, backwards, and the red-headed stepchildren of the imagination world.

I am waiting for you to lie on the ground kicking and screaming.

I teach art. I do something good for the world. I instill confidence and thought processes into children. I also teach history, science, math, literature, all in my lessons. I reinforce the same teachings their classroom teachers teach. I take them outside to explore nature, and to study life.

Maybe to you that is insignificant. Frankly Scallop, I don't give a Clam.

[S2M]

Ginger, when you've rid yourself of the delusions of reference we can continue this discussion....I'm talking about religious imagination, not YOUR Disney imagineer degree.....I've pretty much sniffed out your M.O.

Make every comment people make into a personal attack about you, and by association - totally glossing over the person's point....you'd make a great magician, or politician.

[verslibre]

Regardless of faith or belief, it still took imagination to do what they did. Edison was considered to be addled in the brain. He had to be home schooled because someone thought he was stupid. He was far from it.

Milton Hershey — that Hershey — was a horrible student. Failed everything. His family moving around constantly didn't help. He only attended school till the age of 12. His experimentation as a confectioner eventually made him a household name. They thew him out of school for being a "dumb kid," but years later he laughed all the way to the bank. Or he should have, if he didn't.

[artist4perry]

Ginger, when you've rid yourself of the delusions of reference we can continue this discussion....I'm talking about religious imagination, not YOUR Disney imagineer degree.....I've pretty much sniffed out your M.O.

Make every comment people make into a personal attack about you, and by association - totally glossing over the person's point....you'd make a great magician, or politician.

Regardless of weather you feel my imagination is my religion, which by the way you cannot prove is just imagination.

Or weather you wish to put down what I do for a living because as you said I have not as much to contribute to the world as Edison, and you missed the point there...............

You have insulted people of faith, claiming we are less intelligent, which is poppycock.

So Parfait was being nice by saying my intelligence on science was on an elementary level? Please. Who is spinning now?

[artist4perry]

Parfait wrote:
Second: You've shown through your posts that you even lack an elementary understand of how science works

Duncan wrote:
"We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid."

Duncan wrote: I noticed and unfortunately that has lead to you abandoning reality and critical thinking.

S2M wrote:Did YOU invent 'god'? Didn't think so...The Wright brothers, and Edison did something with their imagination....they invented things we use everyday....if you are trying to draw a similarity in the world of religion....FAIL. I guess, for the most part, priests invented cool ways to diddle kids and keep their jobs. Other than that, religious imaginations are childish, backwards, and the red-headed stepchildren of the imagination world.

You had brought up the imagination in my signature, which I quoted in reference to art. You on the other hand used it as a reference to say that it is stupid to believe in God, missing my point all together that it was about ART. So I said that you say imagination like it is a bad thing. Referring to Edison and the Wright's.

From there your parallel with religion. And again your opinion. My point is without imagination we would have little in this world. You took what I meant by the quote and twisted it around to say something completely different. As usual a slam on religion and religious people.

Oh and refering to my art as Disney imagineering was not a compliment by you either. Be honest and shame the Devil!

[parfait]

Ginger, when you've rid yourself of the delusions of reference we can continue this discussion....I'm talking about religious imagination, not YOUR Disney imagineer degree.....I've pretty much sniffed out your M.O.

Make every comment people make into a personal attack about you, and by association - totally glossing over the person's point....you'd make a great magician, or politician.

Regardless of weather you feel my imagination is my religion, which by the way you cannot prove is just imagination.

Or weather you wish to put down what I do for a living because as you said I have not as much to contribute to the world as Edison, and you missed the point there...............

You have insulted people of faith, claiming we are less intelligent, which is poppycock.

So Parfait was being nice by saying my intelligence on science was on an elementary level? Please. Who is spinning now?

But it so clearly is.

The statistical fact that believers are less intelligent than non-believers obviously doesn't mean that there's no intelligent believers! The average height for Norwegian men is 183 cm (6,0 feet). I'm 190 (6,2 feet), but that does not mean that the aforementioned average height is wrong. Get it?

Whether you think it's bullshit that believers are less intelligent or that you think it's insulting, is irrelevant. It's a statistical fact. Cry and deny it all you want.

I don't even understand your last post. Are you saying you need a vivid imagination to believe in God? Well, duh. One certainly doesn't need a rational or smart mind.

[artist4perry]

Ginger, when you've rid yourself of the delusions of reference we can continue this discussion....I'm talking about religious imagination, not YOUR Disney imagineer degree.....I've pretty much sniffed out your M.O.

Make every comment people make into a personal attack about you, and by association - totally glossing over the person's point....you'd make a great magician, or politician.

Regardless of weather you feel my imagination is my religion, which by the way you cannot prove is just imagination.

Or weather you wish to put down what I do for a living because as you said I have not as much to contribute to the world as Edison, and you missed the point there...............

You have insulted people of faith, claiming we are less intelligent, which is poppycock.

So Parfait was being nice by saying my intelligence on science was on an elementary level? Please. Who is spinning now?

But it so clearly is.

The statistical fact that believers are less intelligent than non-believers obviously doesn't mean that there's no intelligent believers! The average height for Norwegian men is 183 cm (6,0 feet). I'm 190 (6,2 feet), but that does not mean that the aforementioned average height is wrong. Get it?

Whether you think it's bullshit that believers are less intelligent or that you think it's insulting, is irrelevant. It's a statistical fact. Cry and deny it all you want.

I don't even understand your last post. Are you saying you need a vivid imagination to believe in God? Well, duh. One certainly doesn't need a rational or smart mind.

Blow it out your ear Parfait. You were not being nice or sweet.

And again it is your opinion not fact. Those are drummed up by someone with an agenda. Like you.

The atheist gene pool I see on a daily basis here. Trust me there are a great deal of atheist rednecks that are equally as stupid as some religious folks.

If you are dumb it is because you are dumb or unlearned.

Pardon me if I don't cry over the opinion of a pompous self proclaimed narcissist.


Yes you missed the point of my last post. But since you are of superior intelligence *insert sarcasm* I will let you read it and figure it out.

[majik]

Ginger, when you've rid yourself of the delusions of reference we can continue this discussion....I'm talking about religious imagination, not YOUR Disney imagineer degree.....I've pretty much sniffed out your M.O.

Make every comment people make into a personal attack about you, and by association - totally glossing over the person's point....you'd make a great magician, or politician.

Regardless of weather you feel my imagination is my religion, which by the way you cannot prove is just imagination.

Or weather you wish to put down what I do for a living because as you said I have not as much to contribute to the world as Edison, and you missed the point there...............

You have insulted people of faith, claiming we are less intelligent, which is poppycock.

So Parfait was being nice by saying my intelligence on science was on an elementary level? Please. Who is spinning now?

But it so clearly is.



The statistical fact that believers are less intelligent than non-believers obviously doesn't mean that there's no intelligent believers! The average height for Norwegian men is 183 cm (6,0 feet). I'm 190 (6,2 feet), but that does not mean that the aforementioned average height is wrong. Get it?

Whether you think it's bullshit that believers are less intelligent or that you think it's insulting, is irrelevant. It's a statistical fact. Cry and deny it all you want.

I don't even understand your last post. Are you saying you need a vivid imagination to believe in God? Well, duh. One certainly doesn't need a rational or smart mind.

Intelligence and knowledge are not the same thing. Digesting our food, seeing and hearing, does not require knowledge to be able to do it. Yet the intelligence that we are is effortlessly doing it. Spewing facts and figures theories and concepts is meaningless drivel, while this undeniable intelligence is present and available here and now. Even in deep sleep that intelligence is silently operating while all the knowledge that is so cherished is nought. Who or what is ever separate from this.

[Michigan Girl]

But it so clearly is.

The statistical fact that believers are less intelligent than non-believers obviously doesn't mean that there's no intelligent believers! The average height for Norwegian men is 183 cm (6,0 feet). I'm 190 (6,2 feet), but that does not mean that the aforementioned average height is wrong. Get it?

Whether you think it's bullshit that believers are less intelligent or that you think it's insulting, is irrelevant. It's a statistical fact. Cry and deny it all you want.

I don't even understand your last post. Are you saying you need a vivid imagination to believe in God? Well, duh. One certainly doesn't need a rational or smart mind.

So what you're saying is that there are a larger # of intelligent people who
happen to be non~believers, not that they are more intelligent due to the fact
that they don't believe ...e.g. if I became a non~believer tomorrow, I would
just be increasing their numbers and decreasing the number of
extremely intelligent people who happen to believe ...it makes sense!!

[Rip Rokken]

I totally don't get the purpose in debating the intelligence of believers vs. non-believers. Is it to make people feel superior or make others look stupid? Why not just stick to the topic and let the opinions stand on their own merits? Great example of that here:

God Debate II -- William Lane Craig vs. Sam Harris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg

[Gideon]

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

Oh where to begin.

First, the studies and statistics provided by Parfait indicate that non-religious people are on average more intelligent than religious ones. Parfait himself (albeit reluctantly) conceded that this does not hold true across the board, in every situation, nor does it indicate that there aren't intelligent religious people.

Second, I'd like to see some sources for your facts.... beyond your say-so.

Third, I could be a tremendous ass and point out the couple of glaring grammatical errors in your post, with a cleverly constructed jab at your perception of superior atheist intellect.... but I won't.

[Behshad]

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

Oh where to begin.

First, the studies and statistics provided by Parfait indicate that non-religious people are on average more intelligent than religious ones. Parfait himself (albeit reluctantly) conceded that this does not hold true across the board, in every situation, nor does it indicate that there aren't intelligent religious people.

Second, I'd like to see some sources for your facts.... beyond your say-so.

Third, I could be a tremendous ass and point out the couple of glaring grammatical errors in your post, with a cleverly constructed jab at your perception of superior atheist intellect.... but I won't.

[Don]

Arthur Conan Doyle is a great example of where a mind regarded by many as being a pillar of logic can also display incredulous behavior. After the death of his wife, son and other relatives over the course of a decade, the man ended up turning to spiritualism for solace. He came to the point where he was spending a godly amount of his fortune on things such as searching for the existence of Fairies and ghosts. Doyle also created the counterfeit hominid fossil that fooled scientists for over 40 years, purely out of the need for revenge caused by the debunking of one of his favorite psychics.

An intelligent mind from all accounts but somewhere along the line, the train ran off of the track.

[S2M]

The facts remains that religious people are less intelligent by mere fact that they believe in a sky wizard. That fact alone makes it so...I don't care if your are an attorney, florist, architect, or illegal immigrant.

Oh where to begin.

First, the studies and statistics provided by Parfait indicate that non-religious people are on average more intelligent than religious ones. Parfait himself (albeit reluctantly) conceded that this does not hold true across the board, in every situation, nor does it indicate that there aren't intelligent religious people.

Second, I'd like to see some sources for your facts.... beyond your say-so.

Third, I could be a tremendous ass and point out the couple of glaring grammatical errors in your post, with a cleverly constructed jab at your perception of superior atheist intellect.... but I won't.

Then I would, again, have to point out that I'm using a phone with auto-correct...

After that I would have to ask, using your own criteria(beyond a say-so), where these facts and credible sources are squirreled away that tip the scales in favor of divine command....wait! Are these the same keeps that possess those journey boots?