CHILD ABUSE!!!!

[scarygirl]

Oh and sorry but I raised 3 children. All kids have issues in school now and then. This is a LITTLE boy. What if he has ADD or something, that makes behaving harder for him????? This woman deserves it. Watching it again makes me want to claw her eyes out!

I agree. I come from a long line of kids with behavioral issues and emotional problems. People say that it all has to do with discpline have NO IDEA! With the exception of being a poster on melodic I think I turned out all right.

[Angel]

Ive given both my kids (2 drops of ) Tabasco a couple times each and that was enough for them to listen, cause when I mention the hot sauce, they do listen.
So while I think it was a great tool to get them to listen, I can see how it can be seen as torture if its used over and over and over again.

Exactly...and if you have to do it "over and over" again, it's obviously not an effective form of discipline.

This woman disgusts me....I think she should suffer the same punishments. I feel that there is never an excuse to use physical discomfort, harm or violence to discipline a child. I understand what PC is saying about his daughter and I feel that is a totally different situation. I don't know if I just got lucky and got amazing children or if it's my superb parenting skills ( ) (probably the former), but I have never once laid a hand on my children and I have also never once had discipline problems with any of them. They know what I expect of them and by the same token, they know what they can expect from me. My feelings are that a persons home should be their sanctuary and the one place they can feel totally safe. If children have to worry that they will be subjected to extreme discomfort or even pain and violence in their own home-where do they have to feel safe?? Melissa mentioned bullying and I fully agree. How is this mother supposed to teach this little boy to not bully other children at school when she sets this type of example at home?

[Angel]

I went to a private grade school and we were subjected to proper punishments all the time! If we were caught out of our seats more than once, our third grade teacher would pour rice on the floor, make us roll up our pants and kneel on it. Man, that hurt like a motherfucker! If we were caught disrupting class by talking more than once we had to take our socks off and put them in our mouths. That sucked, too! Add to that those decrepit nuns hitting us all the fucking time and we pretty much had a school that ran like clockwork with minimal distractions. The way school is supposed to be!

Yes, but look how you turned out.....this does NOT help your case!

[scarygirl]

Getting harder and harder to discipline children these days.My six year old daughter and five year old son have a time out period when they misbehave.I also take privleges away when they don't mind.I occasionally paddle them with a paddle sometimes three or four licks but scared to admit even that because nowadays you can get in trouble for trying to discipline your children.A man here recently almost got his daughter taken away just for using a small belt and whipping her on the butt with it.My dad who looks like Chuck Norris and was quite fond of using a belt or switch when i was coming up as a kid sat me down recently and told me he was wrong when i was growing up and he does not want me even using a small paddle,lol.I guess a lot of grandparents get soft in their old age but my dad was hard but firm in his day.Kids need discipline and to know there are consequences.

I think it all depends on how the belt is issued. Personally I am against using a belt period. My dad would fly off the handle over the least little thing. There was many times I had to run and hide in my room and use my body weight to hold the door shut. He just wouldn't stop.... He didn't know when to stop... That is where I draw the line.

[Behshad]

I went to a private grade school and we were subjected to proper punishments all the time! If we were caught out of our seats more than once, our third grade teacher would pour rice on the floor, make us roll up our pants and kneel on it. Man, that hurt like a motherfucker! If we were caught disrupting class by talking more than once we had to take our socks off and put them in our mouths. That sucked, too! Add to that those decrepit nuns hitting us all the fucking time and we pretty much had a school that ran like clockwork with minimal distractions. The way school is supposed to be!

Yes, but look how you turned out.....this does NOT help your case!

She's got a point DanielSan

[yulog]

I used to get hit with a board by my dad ,he made it himself in his shop, and i feared it as a kid but i still got in trouble here and there. My mom use to come in after my beating just to get her licks in with a belt(and she would open the window so my friends outside could hear what was going on) . Although I remember the stuff my parents did, nothing hurt more than the verbal emotional abuse from my mom. The spankings hurt when you got them but it was gone in 10 mins and you knew you better not do that again, but the constant negative comments from the people you look up to is just incredibly damaging for a kids self esteem. Personally, i dont remember 90 % of the beatings, but the emotional stuff i can remember to this day. ( give me the beating anytime! )


Dave, you did nothing wrong with your kid, matter of fact that would be the protocol in a professional facility that works with children. Sometimes they are even put in restraints until they gain control. I have a deep respect for a dad or mom that works with a special needs child, most people have no idea what a Tough child is until you watch parents who have to deal with special needs children.

Hats off to you and your wife.

[conversationpc]

Dave, you did nothing wrong with your kid, matter of fact that would be the protocol in a professional facility that works with children. Sometimes they are even put in restraints until they gain control. I have a deep respect for a dad or mom that works with a special needs child, most people have no idea what a Tough child is until you watch parents who have to deal with special needs children.

Hats off to you and your wife.

Thanks, man...It's been a rough ride but she's made a TON of progress. There were times my wife wanted to send her back to the orphanage we adopted her from but we stuck with it. My wife probably deserves most of the credit. Probably 90% of the abuse was heaped out on her and she stuck it out anyway.

[yulog]

Dave, you did nothing wrong with your kid, matter of fact that would be the protocol in a professional facility that works with children. Sometimes they are even put in restraints until they gain control. I have a deep respect for a dad or mom that works with a special needs child, most people have no idea what a Tough child is until you watch parents who have to deal with special needs children.

Hats off to you and your wife.

Thanks, man...It's been a rough ride but she's made a TON of progress. There were times my wife wanted to send her back to the orphanage we adopted her from but we stuck with it. My wife probably deserves most of the credit. Probably 90% of the abuse was heaped out on her and she stuck it out anyway.

Dave is she a Russian adoptee?

[Michigan Girl]

Ive given both my kids (2 drops of ) Tabasco a couple times each and that was enough for them to listen, cause when I mention the hot sauce, they do listen.
So while I think it was a great tool to get them to listen, I can see how it can be seen as torture if its used over and over and over again.

Exactly...and if you have to do it "over and over" again, it's obviously not an effective form of discipline.This woman disgusts me....I think she should suffer the same punishments. I feel that there is never an excuse to use physical discomfort, harm or violence to discipline a child. I understand what PC is saying about his daughter and I feel that is a totally different situation. I don't know if I just got lucky and got amazing children or if it's my superb parenting skills ( ) (probably the former), but I have never once laid a hand on my children and I have also never once had discipline problems with any of them. They know what I expect of them and by the same token, they know what they can expect from me. My feelings are that a persons home should be their sanctuary and the one place they can feel totally safe. If children have to worry that they will be subjected to extreme discomfort or even pain and violence in their own home-where do they have to feel safe?? Melissa mentioned bullying and I fully agree. How is this mother supposed to teach this little boy to not bully other children at school when she sets this type of example at home?

Good Post!!

[ebake02]

I could be wrong, but I think I happened to see this episode. Which is funny, because I have only seen it a handful of times! But I THINK a sibling videotaped as she did this? And the child was screaming bloody murder in the cold shower begging his mom please to not do it, and let him out. Made me want to cry...and most of his audience too....pretty sure that's what happened to the brain dead jury

Well, one has to remove emotions when the law comes into play, and if every parent was found guilty anytime their child "screamed bloody murder," we'd have more parents behind bars than not. Again, what did this lady do that broke the law? Nothing.

I agree, I've been around enough kids to know they can be the biggest drama queens on the planet when they want to be. I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

[Angel]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

[conversationpc]

Dave, you did nothing wrong with your kid, matter of fact that would be the protocol in a professional facility that works with children. Sometimes they are even put in restraints until they gain control. I have a deep respect for a dad or mom that works with a special needs child, most people have no idea what a Tough child is until you watch parents who have to deal with special needs children.

Hats off to you and your wife.

Thanks, man...It's been a rough ride but she's made a TON of progress. There were times my wife wanted to send her back to the orphanage we adopted her from but we stuck with it. My wife probably deserves most of the credit. Probably 90% of the abuse was heaped out on her and she stuck it out anyway.

Dave is she a Russian adoptee?

Close...Estonia.

[conversationpc]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

[Angel]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Does abuse? If you hit a child for misbehaving does that guarantee they won't misbehave again?

[yulog]

[quote="Rip Rokken"]Woman convicted of child abuse for using hot sauce on the tongue for punishment -- she went on the Dr. Phil Show, and the complaints from viewers got her arrested! MY MOM used to do this to me -- got the idea from our next door neighbor. I just called her and asked if there was a statue of limitations.



http://news.yahoo.com/video/health-1574 ... 05354.html

Wow, i didn't actually click on Rip's link when i got on this thread I must have clicked on Lynn's . This presents a whole new side to this issue. The lady has six kids....6 . How many people here have 6 of there own kids that they care for? let me guess 1, 2 , or is it no one?

Now of all the people that say yes how many of you actually have a russian adoptee in that mix? i'm guessing No one. let me give you a little insight on russian adoptees. Russia is sending over their worst kids for adoption , the abused, neglected, drug babies to the U.S., they are lying to people in the states about the children coming over to get them out of their hair. The amount of kids that are coming over with severe emotional issues is alarming to say the least. I have worked with many of these kids and trust me conventional behavioral health treatment isnt even putting a dent in helping these kids. Many and i mean many of these kids require years of psychiatric care to help them deal with what they went through before they came to the states.

CPS cleared this mom as a stable mom with a stable home For 6 kids, the only thing this mom looks to be guilty of is being in over her head.

[conversationpc]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Does abuse? If you hit a child for misbehaving does that guarantee they won't misbehave again?

Who said they wouldn't misbehave again?

[Melissa]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Sorry but with children his age, saying it doesn't work with most children simply isn't true.

[No Surprize]

Man, I remember getting tied to the whipping post more times than I can count. But, they were things that were entirely out of my control. Like grades, acting up in school, disrespecting your mom or your sister, then the other sister. I just know my hands hurt like hell trying to cover my ass when my dad let loose. I screamed liked a little bitch just so he would stop, that hardly ever worked. From that I always said I would never treat any kid that I ever had that way and I didn't. From the moment I became a father I loved that little boy. I have never once had to whip him, yell like a banshee or discipline in any way, shape or form. He has been hugged and told that he is loved every single day of his 15 years on earth. He has been told that whatever happens I got your back 100%, I'll believe your story until the truth comes out. I do not for a minute believe you have to abuse, slap, whip, or verbally abuse a child for them to show respect for you or others. You lead by example and show them the way.

[ebake02]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Exactly, time-outs and that type of stuff doesn't work. Parent need to equate bad behavior with some sort of negative punishment, whether it's spanking, washing their mouth out with soap or hot sauce etc.... Kids act better when they realize that bad behavior comes with consequences.

[Angel]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Does abuse? If you hit a child for misbehaving does that guarantee they won't misbehave again?

Who said they wouldn't misbehave again?

Well, you said that positive reinforcement doesn't work and implied that physical consequences do. I'm just saying that neither of them are 100% effective and there are some harmful consequences from causing physical pain or harm in an attempt to control a child's behavior. It's important to look at the whole picture-how will each of these methods affect the child now and in the future??

[S2M]

As someone who has close to 15 years experience working in group homes, put kids in therapeutic holds(restraints), been kicked, smacked, spit on, had blood flicked at me, and had shit thrown on me...and has been disrespected in EVERY way imaginable - you quickly learn to do WHATEVER WORKS. Seriously, you learn rather quickly what works...and it is different for each kid. I worked at a place called JRC(Judge Rottenberg Center) - named after the Judge who lobbied to keep it open after Connie Chung did an expose on the "horrible" practices that employees are required to perform while employed there...I'm talking about wearing a 'hip sled', and giving out measured shocks....giving ammonia squirts to misbehaving residents....WHATEVER WORKS.

Now these kids may be the extreme...but I've seen "normal" kids acting pretty damn bad. And as a parent, wtf are we supposed to do if a kid is throwing a fucking Defcon 1 tantrum in Walmart because you ain't buying him the GI Joe with the kung-fu grip? I don't believe in hitting, and being a psychology major - realizing that if someone(ANYBODY) just doesn't want to do something, there is absolutely nothing you can do to make that person do it. You either find out what works, or you flail and flounder your way through parenthood....

I'm telling you right now.....hotsauce is pretty fucking tame.

[conversationpc]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Does abuse? If you hit a child for misbehaving does that guarantee they won't misbehave again?

Who said they wouldn't misbehave again?

Well, you said that positive reinforcement doesn't work and implied that physical consequences do. I'm just saying that neither of them are 100% effective and there are some harmful consequences from causing physical pain or harm in an attempt to control a child's behavior. It's important to look at the whole picture-how will each of these methods affect the child now and in the future??

You can't be that stupid. Did I say it works every time? Did I even say it works a vast majority of the time. It was supposed to be implied that it works better, on the average. I shouldn't need to explain that.

[Angel]

Exactly, time-outs and that type of stuff doesn't work. Parent need to equate bad behavior with some sort of negative punishment, whether it's spanking, washing their mouth out with soap or hot sauce etc.... Kids act better when they realize that bad behavior comes with consequences.

Not true. I have NEVER done this with my children and they are some of the most well behaved children you will ever meet. Sure, they've had moments when they misbehaved and there have been consequences but never consequences that inflict any pain on them. In fact, I have seen more children WITH behavior problems that are punished with the hot sauce, soap etc than children that are given time-outs etc.

I really think the majority of children's behavioral problems (with the exception of children with medical or psychiatric problems) are really a reflection on the parents. I see women all the time that bring their children in to my office during their visits and if the children start "misbehaving" (and by misbehaving I mean opening drawers in the exam rooms, playing with the uteus and IUD models I have in exam rooms, etc) they start yelling at them, grabbing their arm, swing them across the room and slam them down into a chair and tell them to shut up and not move. The children get right back out of the chair-or they start screaming and crying to the point that I can't even talk to the woman. Yet, many times once I get to know the family I will pick the child up on my lap and talk to them-, I'll ask them questions about the baby in mom's tummy or about what they did that day or what they plan to do ect...I will often find something that is appropriate for them to play with, usually the NuvaRing model , with the understanding that kids are curious and they like to touch things, explore and learn about new things. Plus, they are bored and at their developmental level they are not capable of sitting quietly without being entertained. I will then put them up on the chair and let them help me measure mom's tummy and listen to the baby-I let them handle the equipment and feel like a part of the visit. I've found that more times than not, on subsequent visits when I walk in their behavior changes from heathen to happy child. I just really don't think that hurting a child is effecive.

[mikemarrs]

Man, I remember getting tied to the whipping post more times than I can count. But, they were things that were entirely out of my control. Like grades, acting up in school, disrespecting your mom or your sister, then the other sister. I just know my hands hurt like hell trying to cover my ass when my dad let loose. I screamed liked a little bitch just so he would stop, that hardly ever worked. From that I always said I would never treat any kid that I ever had that way and I didn't. From the moment I became a father I loved that little boy. I have never once had to whip him, yell like a banshee or discipline in any way, shape or form. He has been hugged and told that he is loved every single day of his 15 years on earth. He has been told that whatever happens I got your back 100%, I'll believe your story until the truth comes out. I do not for a minute believe you have to abuse, slap, whip, or verbally abuse a child for them to show respect for you or others. You lead by example and show them the way.

Same here.If anything i get criticised that i'm not firm or hard enough on my kids and a lot of that has to do with the rigid way i was brought up.I'm really good with 'em and spend lots of time sports,playing,going to park,games.Their mother does a lot of the discipline as far maybe a paddle on the butt every blue moon and thats if they really get out of hand but most of it is stuff taken away from them or timeouts if they don't act right.Its a very delicate situation but i try to be fair but also firm about things.definitely don't want them looking back like i did being terrified of getting a belt because those do hurt.

[Angel]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Does abuse? If you hit a child for misbehaving does that guarantee they won't misbehave again?

Who said they wouldn't misbehave again?

Well, you said that positive reinforcement doesn't work and implied that physical consequences do. I'm just saying that neither of them are 100% effective and there are some harmful consequences from causing physical pain or harm in an attempt to control a child's behavior. It's important to look at the whole picture-how will each of these methods affect the child now and in the future??

You can't be that stupid. Did I say it works every time? Did I even say it works a vast majority of the time. It was supposed to be implied that it works better, on the average. I shouldn't need to explain that.

After I've been so respectful of you, did you seriously just call me dumb? Go back and read, Dave. You said that you believe physical consequences are OK because you don't think positive reinforcement works. I would say that is implying that physical consequences ARE effective (but I may be too dumb to draw reasonable conclusions).

[Melissa]

I DID click on both links, and sorry but the "she has 6 kids" argument doesn't wash. Who forced her at gunpoint to have 6 kids? Or agree to take 6 kids to care for? No one. And where did they say the child is some out of control behavior problem child? He STOOD there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there while she dumped hot sauce in his mouth NOT MOVING, where the hell was he "out of control"?

Oh and answer me this, all you perfect parenting experts: If the kid had vomitted profusely all over the place in the video, how would you feel about the "saucing" then?

[Michigan Girl]

And where did they say the child is some out of control behavior problem child? He STOOD there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there while she dumped hot sauce in his mouth NOT MOVING, where the hell was he "out of control"?

You beat me to the punch ...
I was just getting ready to say ...WOW, he wasn't even fighting her!!

[yulog]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Does abuse? If you hit a child for misbehaving does that guarantee they won't misbehave again?

In some cases yes and in some cases no, just like positive reinforcement, and you should define what is abuse to you because the extreme abuse is pretty much across the board accepted as such , but obviously from what you can see here a cold shower and hot sauce is not considered abuse by everyone, including The CPS. There are so many variables that go into raising a kid and how they will come out , where you live, how much you make,is the child yours or adopted, religous beliefs,what kind of work you do ,whether you are a mom or a dad etc. . You can be the best parent in the world and when you send your kid to school for 7 hrs a day all your good work can just unravel.

Its pretty obvious that time outs are not working for so many kids now a days, kids keep changing and consequences for unwanted behavior has to change somewhat to keep up, maybe taking the best techniques from when we were kids and some of the best from today would be a better option. Parents nowadays need more education on how to be parents , and with kids consistency is the key, if your not consistent you might as well hang it up because your just asking your kid to act out.

[conversationpc]

I would gladly take hot sauce over the liquid hand soap that my parents stuck in my mouth when I was misbehaving as a kid.

It's time to break the cycle. Just because our parents did it to us doesn't mean it was right or it's OK to do it to our children.

It is OK, though. Sorry, but positive reinforcement just doesn't work as consistently well with most children, especially the younger they are.

Does abuse? If you hit a child for misbehaving does that guarantee they won't misbehave again?

Who said they wouldn't misbehave again?

Well, you said that positive reinforcement doesn't work and implied that physical consequences do. I'm just saying that neither of them are 100% effective and there are some harmful consequences from causing physical pain or harm in an attempt to control a child's behavior. It's important to look at the whole picture-how will each of these methods affect the child now and in the future??

You can't be that stupid. Did I say it works every time? Did I even say it works a vast majority of the time. It was supposed to be implied that it works better, on the average. I shouldn't need to explain that.

After I've been so respectful of you, did you seriously just call me dumb? Go back and read, Dave. You said that you believe physical consequences are OK because you don't think positive reinforcement works. I would say that is implying that physical consequences ARE effective (but I may be too dumb to draw reasonable conclusions).

No, I don't think you're stupid. You're very smart. That's why I questioned what you were reading. I never said it works each and every time. Like most things in life, sometimes something works and sometimes it doesn't.

[Angel]

In some cases yes and in some cases no, just like positive reinforcement, and you should define what is abuse to you because the extreme abuse is pretty much across the board accepted as such , but obviously from what you can see here a cold shower and hot sauce is not considered abuse by everyone, including The CPS. There are so many variables that go into raising a kid and how they will come out , where you live, how much you make,is the child yours or adopted, religous beliefs,what kind of work you do ,whether you are a mom or a dad etc. . You can be the best parent in the world and when you send your kid to school for 7 hrs a day all your good work can just unravel.

I don't care about the "legal" definition of abuse. In my book, any act that is intended to cause pain, physical discomfort or any form of violence or any act that makes the child feel threatened or less safe is abuse. Now, I know a lot of people don't agree with me and that's OK...that's why I said "in my book."

Its pretty obvious that time outs are not working for so many kids now a days, kids keep changing and consequences for unwanted behavior has to change somewhat to keep up, maybe taking the best techniques from when we were kids and some of the best from today would be a better option. Parents nowadays need more education on how to be parents , and with kids consistency is the key, if your not consistent you might as well hang it up because your just asking your kid to act out.

I agree totally with this!