CHILD ABUSE!!!!

[Angel]

No, I don't think you're stupid. You're very smart. That's why I questioned what you were reading. I never said it works each and every time. Like most things in life, sometimes something works and sometimes it doesn't.

...and I totally agree with this....I just don't agree that it is a reason to support physical discipline.

[conversationpc]

No, I don't think you're stupid. You're very smart. That's why I questioned what you were reading. I never said it works each and every time. Like most things in life, sometimes something works and sometimes it doesn't.

...and I totally agree with this....I just don't agree that it is a reason to support physical discipline.

I do...I can tell you this and I think most people who were consistently spanked and not abused as children would say the same thing. As hard-headed as I am, if I hadn't been physically disciplined as a child, I would've run roughshod over my parents as a child. Guaranteed.

[yulog]

As someone who has close to 15 years experience working in group homes, put kids in therapeutic holds(restraints), been kicked, smacked, spit on, had blood flicked at me, and had shit thrown on me...and has been disrespected in EVERY way imaginable - you quickly learn to do WHATEVER WORKS. Seriously, you learn rather quickly what works...and it is different for each kid. I worked at a place called JRC(Judge Rottenberg Center) - named after the Judge who lobbied to keep it open after Connie Chung did an expose on the "horrible" practices that employees are required to perform while employed there...I'm talking about wearing a 'hip sled', and giving out measured shocks....giving ammonia squirts to misbehaving residents....WHATEVER WORKS.

Now these kids may be the extreme...but I've seen "normal" kids acting pretty damn bad. And as a parent, wtf are we supposed to do if a kid is throwing a fucking Defcon 1 tantrum in Walmart because you ain't buying him the GI Joe with the kung-fu grip? I don't believe in hitting, and being a psychology major - realizing that if someone(ANYBODY) just doesn't want to do something, there is absolutely nothing you can do to make that person do it. You either find out what works, or you flail and flounder your way through parenthood....

I'm telling you right now.....hotsauce is pretty fucking tame.

[StevePerryHair]

And where did they say the child is some out of control behavior problem child? He STOOD there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there while she dumped hot sauce in his mouth NOT MOVING, where the hell was he "out of control"?

You beat me to the punch ...
I was just getting ready to say ...WOW, he wasn't even fighting her!!

I saw a terrified child But yet he repeated the behavior......it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it DOESN'T work. She needs better tools and help. But this was the easy way out I guess. Because behavioral changes take time when you use other approaches. And the child should be evaluated too, for underlying reasons for his behavior. I'm sure some don't believe in that though.

[StevePerryHair]

And let me add....DID YOU HEAR what the boy said? His cards were moved in school......I didn't hear one violent or out of control reason for it either!! Other than a VERY little boy, doing something MOST little boys do in school everyday. And it's just a ridiculously extreme consequence!! I wonder how the teacher feels seeing this, after HER punishment caused this consequence from the mom.

[conversationpc]

And where did they say the child is some out of control behavior problem child? He STOOD there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there taking her screaming in his face NOT MOVING, he SAT there while she dumped hot sauce in his mouth NOT MOVING, where the hell was he "out of control"?

You beat me to the punch ...
I was just getting ready to say ...WOW, he wasn't even fighting her!!

I saw a terrified child But yet he repeated the behavior......it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it DOESN'T work. She needs better tools and help. But this was the easy way out I guess. Because behavioral changes take time when you use other approaches. And the child should be evaluated too, for underlying reasons for his behavior. I'm sure some don't believe in that though.

Just because he did it this one time doesn't mean that it didn't work. How do you know that he wasn't at one time doing that behavior once more and perhaps it's worked over time to decrease the behavior? I guarantee you the first time I got spanked as a child that I went out and did the same behavior and got spanked again, enough to the point where I didn't do that behavior any more.

[conversationpc]

And let me add....DID YOU HEAR what the boy said? His cards were moved in school......I didn't hear one violent or out of control reason for it either!! Other than a VERY little boy, doing something MOST little boys do in school everyday. And it's just a ridiculously extreme consequence!! I wonder how the teacher feels seeing this, after HER punishment caused this consequence from the mom.

I think they were talking about "pulling a card". If that's what happens with my daughter, they are made by the teacher to "pull a card" which means their behavior wasn't appropriate, so they pull one card for it. The second infraction results in pulling a second card, which may or may not entail a consequence. Then the third card being pulled, etc. So basically, from what I gather, the behavior that was the reason he was made to "pull a card" wasn't specified unless I just didn't listen closely enough.

[StevePerryHair]

And let me add....DID YOU HEAR what the boy said? His cards were moved in school......I didn't hear one violent or out of control reason for it either!! Other than a VERY little boy, doing something MOST little boys do in school everyday. And it's just a ridiculously extreme consequence!! I wonder how the teacher feels seeing this, after HER punishment caused this consequence from the mom.

I think they were talking about "pulling a card". If that's what happens with my daughter, they are made by the teacher to "pull a card" which means their behavior wasn't appropriate, so they pull one card for it. The second infraction results in pulling a second card, which may or may not entail a consequence. Then the third card being pulled, etc.

Dave, I have 3 kids, 17, 15 and 12....I think I know what pulling a card is! You missed my point!! The behavior was not some violent horrible thing he did in school. He is a normal 5/6 year old child being made to feel like he is HORRIBLE. it's just wrong. You have a special needs child, so I know this is sensitive for you. But there is a difference between restraining a child so they don't hurt themselves or others, and doing what this woman did!! Over and over and over. This was ONE TIME she had the young daughter tape it for the Dr Phil show!!!!

[conversationpc]

And let me add....DID YOU HEAR what the boy said? His cards were moved in school......I didn't hear one violent or out of control reason for it either!! Other than a VERY little boy, doing something MOST little boys do in school everyday. And it's just a ridiculously extreme consequence!! I wonder how the teacher feels seeing this, after HER punishment caused this consequence from the mom.

I think they were talking about "pulling a card". If that's what happens with my daughter, they are made by the teacher to "pull a card" which means their behavior wasn't appropriate, so they pull one card for it. The second infraction results in pulling a second card, which may or may not entail a consequence. Then the third card being pulled, etc.

Dave, I have 3 kids, 17, 15 and 12....I think I know what pulling a card is! You missed my point!! The behavior was not some violent horrible thing he did in school. He is a normal 5/6 year old child being made to feel like he is HORRIBLE. it's just wrong. You have a special needs child, so I know this is sensitive for you. But there is a difference between restraining a child so they don't hurt themselves or others, and doing what this woman did!! Over and over and over. This was ONE TIME she had the young daughter tape it for the Dr Phil show!!!!

I don't disagree with WHAT she did but HOW she did it. She was much too stern with that kid.

[StevePerryHair]

Think about this too. She KNEW she was being taped for national television. So her behavior was most likely TAME for how she normally treats him. I find it very hard to believe she's always that calm and stoic about it.

[Behshad]

You two need to get along ,,, or else :

[Journey/Survivor]

Oh and sorry but I raised 3 children. All kids have issues in school now and then. This is a LITTLE boy. What if he has ADD or something, that makes behaving harder for him????? This woman deserves it. Watching it again makes me want to claw her eyes out!

I fully agree with you!!!

I have no tolerance for child-abuse or animal-abuse.

Cowards abuse and bully children and animals.

If anyone at all ever treated a child of mine like Dan described at his one school, There would be hell to pay! And I mean it, they would pay one way or another for doing that to my child!

[StevePerryHair]

You two need to get along ,,, or else :

That's a BIG bottle!

[S2M]

Thank "god" you people didnt grow up in school in the 50s and 60s....you'd get shitlicked by your teacher, they'd call home, and when you got home you'd catch a 2nd pummeling from the old man. Then you'd get him his loafers, paper, and pipe...sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up - and there would be no fucking Archie comic for you on Saturday.....

[StevePerryHair]

Thank "god" you people didnt grow up in school in the 50s and 60s....you'd get shitlicked by your teacher, they'd call home, and when you got home you'd catch a 2nd pummeling from the old man. Then you'd get him his loafers, paper, and pipe...sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up - and there would be no fucking Archie comic for you on Saturday.....

Yeah, and thank God I didn't live at a time when women were second class citizens allowed to be beaten by their husbands in this country....what's your point?

[conversationpc]

Thank "god" you people didnt grow up in school in the 50s and 60s....you'd get shitlicked by your teacher, they'd call home, and when you got home you'd catch a 2nd pummeling from the old man. Then you'd get him his loafers, paper, and pipe...sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up - and there would be no fucking Archie comic for you on Saturday.....

Yeah, and thank God I didn't live at a time when women were second class citizens allowed to be beaten by their husbands in this country....what's your point?

Actually being beaten and a spanking are two completely different things.

[S2M]

I can remember my 5th grade teacher making kids stand about 18 inches from the blackboard leaning forward til their heads made contact with it, hands behind your back....and just let us stay in that position for a good 15-20 minutes...boy did your head hurt after that ordeal.

[StevePerryHair]

Thank "god" you people didnt grow up in school in the 50s and 60s....you'd get shitlicked by your teacher, they'd call home, and when you got home you'd catch a 2nd pummeling from the old man. Then you'd get him his loafers, paper, and pipe...sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up - and there would be no fucking Archie comic for you on Saturday.....

Yeah, and thank God I didn't live at a time when women were second class citizens allowed to be beaten by their husbands in this country....what's your point?

Actually being beaten and a spanking are two completely different things.

No kidding Dave! Missed my point AGAIN. my point is times change....and we grow to realize some things are just wrong. What THIS woman did was wrong, sorry.

[StevePerryHair]

AND maybe Sean should define "pummeling"....

[Journey/Survivor]

At my junior high that I went to, you would sit in the cafeteria during study-hall. One day during study-hall this one kid was quietly talking to another kid (Which was against the rules) while one of the big male gym teachers was walking by. The gym teacher heard the one kid quietly talking, and the gym teacher told him to shut up. The kid that was talking sort of quietly laughed for a second, and the gym teacher told him to get up and that they were going to the vice-principals office. So the kid starts to walk in the direction that he would have to to go to the vice-principals office, when all of a sudden the gym teacher walked up behind the kid and kicked the kid in the ass really hard. The kid turned around and punched the gym teacher really hard in the face.

About a year later I was working-out at a gym that was in a college right down the street from my house. This kid walks up to me and say's "Hey Bill, how's it going?" I didn't remember him, so he said "You don't remember me, I guess?" And then he said "I'm the guy that punched Mr.-----" (I myself can't remember the gym teachers last name)

I shook his hand and told him that was awesome. I myself swore that if a teacher ever hit me in any way at all that I would cave his face in if it was a male teacher, and slap her silly if it was a female teacher.

And even though I used to be a boxer, I'm a non-violent person in general. But people have to stick up for their rights.

[Journey/Survivor]

I can remember my 5th grade teacher making kids stand about 18 inches from the blackboard leaning forward til their heads made contact with it, hands behind your back....and just let us stay in that position for a good 15-20 minutes...boy did your head hurt after that ordeal.

How old are you? I'm just wondering when you were in school, that that kind of stuff was allowed?

[conversationpc]

Thank "god" you people didnt grow up in school in the 50s and 60s....you'd get shitlicked by your teacher, they'd call home, and when you got home you'd catch a 2nd pummeling from the old man. Then you'd get him his loafers, paper, and pipe...sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up - and there would be no fucking Archie comic for you on Saturday.....

Yeah, and thank God I didn't live at a time when women were second class citizens allowed to be beaten by their husbands in this country....what's your point?

Actually being beaten and a spanking are two completely different things.

No kidding Dave! Missed my point AGAIN. my point is times change....and we grow to realize some things are just wrong. What THIS woman did was wrong, sorry.

Sorry, but the point wasn't completely clear, in my opinion. What she did wasn't wrong as far as I'm concerned. The WAY she went about it was.

[S2M]

I can remember my 5th grade teacher making kids stand about 18 inches from the blackboard leaning forward til their heads made contact with it, hands behind your back....and just let us stay in that position for a good 15-20 minutes...boy did your head hurt after that ordeal.

How old are you? I'm just wondering when you were in school, that that kind of stuff was allowed?

That was in 1979.....

[Melissa]

And let me add....DID YOU HEAR what the boy said? His cards were moved in school......I didn't hear one violent or out of control reason for it either!! Other than a VERY little boy, doing something MOST little boys do in school everyday. And it's just a ridiculously extreme consequence!! I wonder how the teacher feels seeing this, after HER punishment caused this consequence from the mom.

Exactly! My 6 year old last year in Kindergarten, while 5 years old, got her card moved a few times during the year for giggling or talking when she wasn't supposed to. I guess that horrible out of control behavior ( ) was supposed to result in me screaming in her face and dumping hot sauce down her throat and making her stand in the shower screaming because she was scared to f'ing death of me?? It's really pathetic anyone sees this as ok for a little boy simply being... A LITTLE BOY.

[StevePerryHair]

Thank "god" you people didnt grow up in school in the 50s and 60s....you'd get shitlicked by your teacher, they'd call home, and when you got home you'd catch a 2nd pummeling from the old man. Then you'd get him his loafers, paper, and pipe...sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up - and there would be no fucking Archie comic for you on Saturday.....

Yeah, and thank God I didn't live at a time when women were second class citizens allowed to be beaten by their husbands in this country....what's your point?

Actually being beaten and a spanking are two completely different things.

No kidding Dave! Missed my point AGAIN. my point is times change....and we grow to realize some things are just wrong. What THIS woman did was wrong, sorry.

Sorry, but the point wasn't completely clear, in my opinion. What she did wasn't wrong as far as I'm concerned. The WAY she went about it was.

Yeah, well in some countries beating your wife is still an ok mentality too...doesnt make that mentality right!

[Melissa]

I wish the kid had thrown up the hot sauce and everything he had eaten that day in her face and all over that ugly ass hairdo she's sporting.

Oh and a kid that age could have EASILY aspirated that crap FORCED in his mouth also. But I guess that would have been perfectly ok too.

[StevePerryHair]

I had my husband watch that video, since he is a police sergeant, and has been a cop for almost 18 years, and teaches classes on domestic intervention, involving abuse of spouses, children, and any other domestic abuses. He teaches a 40 hour class to other officers in our county. I wanted to know what HE would do based on the laws here in FL, if someone showed him that video. He said if someone brought him that video he would have arrested her immediately. The methods she used on a child that young can most certainly fit into the laws of child abuse in our state. The law here states intentional infliction of physical or mental harm to a child. It's broad and loosely worded. There are case laws that say you can use corporal punishment. But there is a grey area to where it becomes abuse. Case workers won't say that spanking will result in these injuries, so that's why people don't get arrested for that. And there are certain types of spanking that are also arrestable. So anyone who is using these forms of punishment thinking it's fine, guess what. It's not. At least not in this state.

[Journey/Survivor]

You two need to get along ,,, or else :

That picture is making me hungry for scrambled eggs. The last few years I usually put Tabasco sauce on my eggs.

[conversationpc]

You two need to get along ,,, or else :

That picture is making me hungry for scrambled eggs. The last few years I usually put Tabasco sauce on my eggs.

This stuff is a lot better than Tabasco...

[Seven Wishes2]

What a brain-dead jury. Fuck, Tapatio isn't even that hot and a cold shower is far from abuse. The woman sure looks like a nut, though. But I'd have voted not guilty. What part of the law did she break? More specifically, where is the actual wording and guidelines explaining what is and what isn't against the law? The law seems very vague, and I'd have given this ugly bitch the benefit of the doubt.

I went to a private grade school and we were subjected to proper punishments all the time! If we were caught out of our seats more than once, our third grade teacher would pour rice on the floor, make us roll up our pants and kneel on it. Man, that hurt like a motherfucker! If we were caught disrupting class by talking more than once we had to take our socks off and put them in our mouths. That sucked, too! Add to that those decrepit nuns hitting us all the fucking time and we pretty much had a school that ran like clockwork with minimal distractions. The way school is supposed to be!

This sounds all too familiar. My knuckles are still deformed from Catholic School.

BTW, Dan...I will be posting an EPIC Dragon story in the next 24 hours...I'm getting the final details sometime later tonight, but it makes the last two read like a Charlotte Bronte novel by comparison.