Now that I have bought Eclipse...

[Pelata]

Firstly, the performances of the musicians are fantastic. Neal's solos amazing, Arnel sounds brilliant and much more comfortable in his position.

City Of Hope - Too long. The parts of the song are good, but they needed a producer to hammer it into shape, IMO. Sounds like what would be a live version of an Augeri-era track with the extended jamming, etc.

Edge Of The Moment - Too long again, but if any of the longer numbers come close to warranting the length, it'd be this one, IMO. Not bad...the parts of the song are cool, again. A little more serious, like "Edge Of The Blade" or "Separate Ways". It tries a little too hard to be intense and doesn't quite get there, but it's not bad.

Chain Of Love - Too long (seeing a pattern?). Not only is it too long, it's not as good as the 2 songs before it. This sounds more like a B-side or a song that would have benefitted from a little more tooling. The chorus is anti-climactic, IMO. Bits of it are cool, but the first truly weak moment for me.

Tantra - sounds like a Disney movie epic ballad. I can see some cartoon princess seeing her reflection in a rippling pool singing to herself as little butterflies float around her head. Not quite as cring-inducing as "After All These Years", but damn. When the band kicks in, it's not too bad...but still sounds like it belongs in a musical. Even though it's executed well, I don't like it. Like Dennis DeYoung, Elton John and Andrew Lloyd Weber in a Disney love-fest.

Anything Is Possible - Way too long for this kind of song, but this should have been the first lite moment on the album...it works better than Tantra. A nice tempo and the chorus is decent, but not quite there, IMO. While I like it better than Tantra, it's still a little by-the-numbers and generic.

Resonate - Too long and unexciting. Like Edge Of The Moment, it's trying to come off passionate and intense, but this time just comes off pedestrian. The chorus is better than Chain Of Love, but as a whole it kind of comes off weak again.

She's A Mystery - This I like. I like the vibe, the strumming acoustic groove, Arnel's melodies...but it should have ended at 4:50 before that heavy part at the end kicks in. That part was just unnecessary and smacks of Neal wanting to just solo some more.

Human Feel - Once again, way too long. There's no need for this kind of song to be nearly 7 minutes long. "What's missing is true emotion" seems to be the theme of this album. No real chorus, but lots of guitar solos. This song should have faded out at 3:35. Everything after this mark is redundant, IMO...which might have been a cool live moment as a jam ending or something, but on record to listen to over and over it's a skipper.

Ritual - Should have been the opening song, IMO. Nice up-tempo rocker with an energetic melody. Probably the closes to what your average person expects from a Journey record. I like the piano touches and the vibe...still could have been trimmed down....start a fade out around 3:55.

To Whom It May Concern - Musically, this is the best ballad on the album. Why it's buried at track 10 is a mystery. I like the chorus. I am not sure how I like the lyrics. I get what they're trying to do, but it seems a little forced (much of the lyrical content seems forced, actually...it just sticks out more here). Good song, though...again, fade out around 3:45...it's too long.

Someone - the last song on the CD*, and it finally sounds like Journey. This should have been near the front of the album, not the closing track (TWIMC should have closed). The chorus is good, the vibe is good...great Summertime track. Probably my favorite song on the album.

* - >> I need to check my iTunes at home. For some reason, Venus didn't make it on my iPod and only after 3 full spins am I now noticing it. But if I had to guess, it's a rocking instrumental with a lot od Neal shredding on it...am I right? <<

OK, there's my review/opinion. Take it for what it's worth (which isn't much). I think the songs would have benefitted from having a producer trim them down a little (or a lot) and reeling Neal in a bit. The playing and performances are very strong. Neal is obviously abundantly gifted as a guitarist (like we didn't know that already) and everyone (except the producer) did their jobs well. The songs are just too damn long.

Honestly IMO, at this point, Neal needs to just accept the fact that the public has a certain perception of Journey. While I certainly don't want to put the band in a box, there has to be some realization of what Cain called "the legacy sound". The band has always experimented a little here and there...which I get. But to pack a whole album with 5-6-almost 7-minute "epic" rockers blended with some half-cocked, cosmic, pseudo-spiritual theme and then tack on a couple of catchy tunes near the end , IMO, is sort of a not-so-subtle thumbing of the nose at the Journey audience.

So, if I may, a message to the owners of the band:

Neal: We get it dude. It's your band. You never wanted to be in a ballad or pop band. You wanted to be a guitar hero. You wanted to Rock. Fine...whatever. But if you're going to continue making Journey albums, please understand that while a little experimentation is necessary and even expected by the fans (Troubled Child, Can't Tame The Lion, People & Places, In Self Defense,, etc), a whole album of "solos, solos everywhere" and "look at me" licks are better served by your solo albums. Protect the legacy because, whether you wanted it or not, it's yours.

Jonathan: you don't write for Disney. Ease up on the "epicness" of the ballads a little. I get it, you're an artist and have to create. But, while you are currently co-owner of the band, take your own advice and protect the legacy sound...save the Broadway stuff for your own albums.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Chain Of Love - Too long (seeing a pattern?). Not only is it too long, it's not as good as the 2 songs before it. This sounds more like a B-side or a song that would have benefitted from a little more tooling. The chorus is anti-climactic, IMO. Bits of it are cool, but the first truly weak moment for me.

I think Chain of Love is waaay stronger than the first two tracks. Prolly one of the strongest songs on the whole cd.

She's A Mystery - This I like. I like the vibe, the strumming acoustic groove, Arnel's melodies...but it should have ended at 4:50 before that heavy part at the end kicks in. That part was just unnecessary and smacks of Neal wanting to just solo some more.

You've lost me. The rocked-out ending makes the song. Without it, you have another meandering pointless "Butterfly" on your hands.

So if you had to grade Eclipse, what would you give it?

[Pelata]

I like "Butterfly" and I don't like the chorus on "COL"...

The part at the end of "She's A Mystery" is a cool part...but it seems tacked on the end randomly and doesn't fit, IMO.

I'd give it a C...everyone plays well...but the album needs a lot of work.

[Deb]

I like "Butterfly" and I don't like the chorus on "COL"...

The part at the end of "She's A Mystery" is a cool part...but it seems tacked on the end randomly and doesn't fit, IMO.

I'd give it a C...everyone plays well...but the album needs a lot of work.

I'm curious....what would you grade 'What If...'? Good, bad, indifferent...be honest?

[Pelata]

I like "Butterfly" and I don't like the chorus on "COL"...

The part at the end of "She's A Mystery" is a cool part...but it seems tacked on the end randomly and doesn't fit, IMO.

I'd give it a C...everyone plays well...but the album needs a lot of work.

I'm curious....what would you grade 'What If...'? Good, bad, indifferent...be honest?

Mr. Big? B+ easily...I love that record.

[Behshad]

I like "Butterfly" and I don't like the chorus on "COL"...

The part at the end of "She's A Mystery" is a cool part...but it seems tacked on the end randomly and doesn't fit, IMO.

I'd give it a C...everyone plays well...but the album needs a lot of work.

I'm curious....what would you grade 'What If...'? Good, bad, indifferent...be honest?

68%

[FamilyMan]

She's A Mystery - This I like. I like the vibe, the strumming acoustic groove, Arnel's melodies...but it should have ended at 4:50 before that heavy part at the end kicks in. That part was just unnecessary and smacks of Neal wanting to just solo some more.

You've lost me. The rocked-out ending makes the song. Without it, you have another meandering pointless "Butterfly" on your hands.

AMEN

[kgdjpubs]

She's A Mystery - This I like. I like the vibe, the strumming acoustic groove, Arnel's melodies...but it should have ended at 4:50 before that heavy part at the end kicks in. That part was just unnecessary and smacks of Neal wanting to just solo some more.

You've lost me. The rocked-out ending makes the song. Without it, you have another meandering pointless "Butterfly" on your hands.

AMEN

I dunno. I love the idea of rocking it out. Just don't particularly care for the execution. Arnel sounds pretty strained and either flat or almost off key at one point.

[Michigan Girl]

She's A Mystery - This I like. I like the vibe, the strumming acoustic groove, Arnel's melodies...but it should have ended at 4:50 before that heavy part at the end kicks in. That part was just unnecessary and smacks of Neal wanting to just solo some more.

You've lost me. The rocked-out ending makes the song. Without it, you have another meandering pointless "Butterfly" on your hands.

AMEN

I dunno. I love the idea of rocking it out. Just don't particularly care for the execution. Arnel sounds pretty strained and either flat or almost off key at one point.

Really, Kev, I haven't noticed ...and hope I don't now!!
I connected w/this song immediately ...no rhyme or reason!!


I'm lol'ing at Shawn's Tantra review ^^^^the descriptions just keep getting better.
I guess it's one of those, love it or hate it type songs ...

[Pelata]

I'm lol'ing at Shawn's Tantra review ^^^^the descriptions just keep getting better.
I guess it's one of those, love it or hate it type songs ...

Yeah...I just really dislike it...I don't mind a little cheese factor...but man, that is OTT.

[Ehwmatt]

I share your general sentiments about the album, but I'm not as harsh on some of the individual songs as you are.

I like: Resonate, Anything is Possible, Tantra (yes, I do like it), and Someone.

But even with those songs, there's a lot of missed opportunities. For instance, AIP is so close to being a great song, but the chorus, like you said, is just "not quite there." It's missing some power or urgency. Furthermore, the song goes into total wank mode when it switches to the minor key outro for 2 minutes. It was a positive, uplifting major key song that already featured 2 long solos by Neal and 1 shorter one. We simply didn't need another one, particularly not one that shifted the mood of the song and goes on too long. Similarly, Someone just has a weird chord change that robs it of its power.

Edge of the Moment, imo, is horrendous. Cool guitar riff surrounded by an absolutely awful song. Don't dig Mystery at all either.

I said it before, and I'll say it again, I think Neal and Jon taking lead producer roles on this one really hurt them. A good producer simply would not have let shitty moments like the AIP outro ruin otherwise decent songs.

[Pelata]

Cool. Yeah, all of the songs are just entirely too long...most of those outro's are pointless other than Neal getting off.

[Ehwmatt]

Cool. Yeah, all of the songs are just entirely too long...most of those outro's are pointless other than Neal getting off.

You're a songwriter. I'm just a bedroom guitar player. But do some of the chord changes just sound totally bizarre to you in terms of being catchy/soaring/powerful? Someone comes to mind... the first few chords of the chorus start out so catchy, then it goes into that G chord and eventually descends into utter shitdom with the "Someoneeee lovessss you" chants. Anything Is Possible too... "If you can see" starts out nice with Neal doing the little high riff in the background. Then, the "how you imagine your life" change just saps the chorus of the energy it quickly built up.

[SF-Dano]

To each his own. I like the record alot. I am absolutely glad that Neal "bumped" heads with Shirley to get what he wanted. The length of the songs bothers me not at all. The end of SAM is great. It is Rock and Roll, it shouldn't have to be perfect. Not everything should have to have a reason.

[Gideon]

To each his own. I like the record alot. I am absolutely glad that Neal "bumped" heads with Shirley to get what he wanted. The length of the songs bothers me not at all. The end of SAM is great. It is Rock and Roll, it shouldn't have to be perfect. Not everything should have to have a reason.

+1. This is the one Journey album I can listen to entirely without the urge to skip.

[portland]

To each his own. I like the record alot. I am absolutely glad that Neal "bumped" heads with Shirley to get what he wanted. The length of the songs bothers me not at all. The end of SAM is great. It is Rock and Roll, it shouldn't have to be perfect. Not everything should have to have a reason.

+1. This is the one Journey album I can listen to entirely without the urge to skip.

Giddy that comes with growing up...skipping is for the preschool set!

[Gideon]

To each his own. I like the record alot. I am absolutely glad that Neal "bumped" heads with Shirley to get what he wanted. The length of the songs bothers me not at all. The end of SAM is great. It is Rock and Roll, it shouldn't have to be perfect. Not everything should have to have a reason.

+1. This is the one Journey album I can listen to entirely without the urge to skip.

Giddy that comes with growing up...skipping is for the preschool set!

[Shawn Of Fire]

I do want everyone to keep in mind that this opinion is based on three full spins...further spins may bring it around.

[Andrew]

Too long?

Bah...pussies!!!!

Should have been even longer. More gratuitous solos.

[Pelata]

Too long?

Bah...pussies!!!!

Should have been even longer. More gratuitous solos.

Not for me. Some of the songs, while the parts of the songs are good, just repeated and circled back to the parts too many times for my liking...or at least for my expectations.

Right now, I'm seeing it more like a Neal solo album than a Journey album.

But, like I said, this was after 3 spins...one of which I was writing while spinning. I'll play it some more...it may grow on me...a lot of people seem to like it.

Drew, I totally respect your opinion and I know you would not hand out a 100% rating if you did not feel it was a cracking album. Maybe there's something I'm missing that will reveal itself later? I don't know...we'll see. But I'm willing to keep giving it a chance. I don't think it sucks...far from it...I was maybe just expecting something other than what I got. I do think the solos, while maybe too many of them, are amazing...and Arnel, to me, sounds much more comfortable and at home than on Revelation.

[Andrew]

No idea mate....some ate it....some love it

I reviewed it after about 3 months of having it prior to release, so my feelings were set. I hope it grows on you....but it was certainly my most contentious 100% mark ever awarded.

[Ehwmatt]

Too long?

Bah...pussies!!!!

Should have been even longer. More gratuitous solos.

I'm a documented progressive fan (indeed, Dream Theater is definitely top 5 for me), so I'm no stranger to long songs and indulgent solos. I just can't get over how pointless some of the solos and instrumental breaks seem to be on the album. Do you really think the solo jam at the end of Anything Is Possible makes it a better song?

[Andrew]

Too long?

Bah...pussies!!!!

Should have been even longer. More gratuitous solos.

I'm a documented progressive fan (indeed, Dream Theater is definitely top 5 for me), so I'm no stranger to long songs and indulgent solos. I just can't get over how pointless some of the solos and instrumental breaks seem to be on the album. Do you really think the solo jam at the end of Anything Is Possible makes it a better song?

One of my favs!

[steveo777]

Too long?

Bah...pussies!!!!

Should have been even longer. More gratuitous solos.

I'm a documented progressive fan (indeed, Dream Theater is definitely top 5 for me), so I'm no stranger to long songs and indulgent solos. I just can't get over how pointless some of the solos and instrumental breaks seem to be on the album. Do you really think the solo jam at the end of Anything Is Possible makes it a better song?

Abolutely! It took a few times though AND reading interviews for me to fully understand the intent of this album. Once I got it, I really began to love the album and it hasn't worn off yet.

[Glenn]

This cd got better with each listen. The only I find myself skipping now and then is Tantra. I don't hate it, just skippable sometimes.

For me, as I have said before, is the Journey cd I have been waiting for.

I respect all opinions good or bad (expect the few that I feel were made before the cd came out) so there's no need to argue it's merits.

Nice review...I don't agree with most of it, but it seems honest and I respect that.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're a songwriter. I'm just a bedroom guitar player. But do some of the chord changes just sound totally bizarre to you in terms of being catchy/soaring/powerful? Someone comes to mind... the first few chords of the chorus start out so catchy, then it goes into that G chord and eventually descends into utter shitdom with the "Someoneeee lovessss you" chants. Anything Is Possible too... "If you can see" starts out nice with Neal doing the little high riff in the background. Then, the "how you imagine your life" change just saps the chorus of the energy it quickly built up.

I think you need to really take a step back and maybe go re-listen to other Journey albums, or any album. These are really some minor quibbles. Prolly evident on just about every cd you own. The "Someone loves you" BG chorus sounds like typical Journey to me. John's ghost vocal is evident on almost every song, with him singing in a lower key. I've always figured it's a leftover from the original demo, before they have Arnel (or SA or whoever) add vocals to it.

[Pelata]

Cool. Yeah, all of the songs are just entirely too long...most of those outro's are pointless other than Neal getting off.

You're a songwriter. I'm just a bedroom guitar player. But do some of the chord changes just sound totally bizarre to you in terms of being catchy/soaring/powerful? Someone comes to mind... the first few chords of the chorus start out so catchy, then it goes into that G chord and eventually descends into utter shitdom with the "Someoneeee lovessss you" chants. Anything Is Possible too... "If you can see" starts out nice with Neal doing the little high riff in the background. Then, the "how you imagine your life" change just saps the chorus of the energy it quickly built up.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about guitar playing. I write vocal melodies and lyrics and only make suggestions about changes in the music by humming them.

That said, I do not think that the individual parts of the songs or the changes/transitions sound even remotely "bizarre". I think everything flows well and all the transitions are smooth and flowing.

My main gripe, in reading my own review again, is A- songs are just so long (which, as a Dream Theater fan, you'd think would not bother me) and B- the intensity and emotion being put forth in the songs failed to connect with me on my first 3 spins...it seemed forced. On a tecnical level, the music is very well written and skillfully played.

My opinion could be clouded by my expectations which, even though I like to think otherwise, I have expectations from established bands and when they take a sharp left it doesn't always jive with me immediately. Some bands lose me completely (Queensryche) and some bands keep me coming back (U2)...

I'm giving Eclipse a fair chance (even playing it now)...we'll see if my stance changes at all.

[Red13JoePa]

The "Someone loves you" BG chorus sounds like typical Journey to me. John's ghost vocal is evident on almost every song, with him singing in a lower key. I've always figured it's a leftover from the original demo, before they have Arnel (or SA or whoever) add vocals to it.

Interesting point and theory.

I do hear that voc all over the album, too. Somehow Cain's BG vox seem even more prominent than the rest of the guys in a lot of places, including Castronovo's. But the clarity of the BG vox on this album is good to point of many times being able to differentiate the band members.
Hopefully Kalmusky is already on board for the next album.

[Pelata]

OK, I have played the album 10-12 more times since my last post in this thread.

- it's growing on me, for sure...I find myself singing along much more
- the song lengths are no longer a distraction (mainly because the music and singing is so good), but I still would have chopped them down if I were producer...just personal preference
- I still don't really care for "Tantra"...but it's very well executed
- Arnel, as I stated before, sounds way more comfortable and loose on this album...he sings very, very well
- Neal's playing is stellar, if a bit long-winded
- I get why Neal compares it to Frontiers
- I have increased it's grade from a C to a low B It'll never be my favorite Journey record, but I can actually say I kinda like it now

[yulog]

OK, I have played the album 10-12 more times since my last post in this thread.

- it's growing on me, for sure...I find myself singing along much more
- the song lengths are no longer a distraction (mainly because the music and singing is so good), but I still would have chopped them down if I were producer...just personal preference
- I still don't really care for "Tantra"...but it's very well executed
- Arnel, as I stated before, sounds way more comfortable and loose on this album...he sings very, very well
- Neal's playing is stellar, if a bit long-winded
- I get why Neal compares it to Frontiers
- I have increased it's grade from a C to a low B It'll never be my favorite Journey record, but I can actually say I kinda like it now

Damn conformist!...and stay in there!