Why never JSS??

[Journey/Survivor]

No, I definitely was not saying that JSS fans are racists. My "racists" comment didn't have anything to do with JSS fans, Perry fans, or Augeri fans. It's just that IMHO a lot of the bashing that AP receives on here is because of a racist agenda. I was in no way trying to knock JSS or his fans!

Whoaa...I think you need to be careful about throwing out the racist card toward the "majority" of folks here who are not Arnel fans. I don't see any evidence of this being true for that "majority". Consider me not so much an Arnel fan, but believe me when I say it has nothing to do with his race/nationality. Quite frankly, I find such a statement very offensive in itself.

Well, like I mentioned in one of my other posts, I also said that sometimes people bash AP because their pissed that their guy, meaning Perry, Augeri or JSS, is no longer in the band.

I did not direct my "racists" comment at any one person on here. If someone knows in their heart that they do not bash AP because of his nationality, then they should not be bothered by my comment, because it was not directed at them.

If someone knows that they do bash him because of his nationality, then my comment is directed at their racist ass.

Also, there's a difference between being "Not so much of an Arnel fan" and bashing as I said.

If someone doesn't care for his singing, that's fine. I'm definitely not saying that that makes them racist. But many people bash AP on here and claim all kinds of crap that's not even close to true about him, in regards to his singing.

I mentioned in one of my other posts that I don't feel that Robin McAuley is a good fit in Survivor. I much prefer the singing of Jimi Jamison and Dave Bickler. Especially in Survivor. If I had my way, either Jamison or Bickler would be back in Survivor, in place of McAuley. But I don't bash Robin McAuley.

And there's way more similarity vocally between Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda, than there is between Jamison and McAuley.

I can see why someone that likes the smoothness of Jamison's vocals may not like the roughness of McAuley's. Their kind of night and day as singers. But Perry and AP are very similar vocally. Yes, I like Perry's vocals better. but there's no denying that AP does a great job on Perry's vocals.

[steveo777]

No, I definitely was not saying that JSS fans are racists. My "racists" comment didn't have anything to do with JSS fans, Perry fans, or Augeri fans. It's just that IMHO a lot of the bashing that AP receives on here is because of a racist agenda. I was in no way trying to knock JSS or his fans!

Whoaa...I think you need to be careful about throwing out the racist card toward the "majority" of folks here who are not Arnel fans. I don't see any evidence of this being true for that "majority". Consider me not so much an Arnel fan, but believe me when I say it has nothing to do with his race/nationality. Quite frankly, I find such a statement very offensive in itself.

Well, like I mentioned in one of my other posts, I also said that sometimes people bash AP because their pissed that their guy, meaning Perry, Augeri or JSS, is no longer in the band.

I did not direct my "racists" comment at any one person on here. If someone knows in their heart that they do not bash AP because of his nationality, then they should not be bothered by my comment, because it was not directed at them.

If someone knows that they do bash him because of his nationality, then my comment is directed at their racist ass.

Also, there's a difference between being "Not so much of an Arnel fan" and bashing as I said.

If someone doesn't care for his singing, that's fine. I'm definitely not saying that that makes them racist. But many people bash AP on here and claim all kinds of crap that's not even close to true about him, in regards to his singing.

I mentioned in one of my other posts that I don't feel that Robin McAuley is a good fit in Survivor. I much prefer the singing of Jimi Jamison and Dave Bickler. Especially in Survivor. If I had my way, either Jamison or Bickler would be back in Survivor, in place of McAuley. But I don't bash Robin McAuley.

And there's way more similarity vocally between Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda, than there is between Jamison and McAuley.

I can see why someone that likes the smoothness of Jamison's vocals may not like the roughness of McAuley's. Their kind of night and day as singers. But Perry and AP are very similar vocally. Yes, I like Perry's vocals better. but there's no denying that AP does a great job on Perry's vocals.

No, I think you got it right. The first one's to get out of their comfort zones are usually the guilty. Fuck the PC crap. Call it as you see it. Everyone else around here does, for the most part. I had a black family that had to leave because they were hungry, making it impossible to complete the transaction today. The salesman let them leave. I told him the first place he fucked up was by not offering to have them sit down while he went over to get them a bucket of fried chicken.

[jestor92]

I' The song wasn't all that good and supposedly JSS didn't have good writing chemistry with Schon and Cain and wanted a vocalist that had more of the legacy Journey sound.

I thought that song was 100% Cain.

Song Could've been 100% Cain. I firmly remember someone saying something around the breakup that the chemistry with JSS wasn't there though.

[Rick]

I thought they did a good job collaborating on this tune.

Believe In Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAW6Q75FNw

[Argus]

I thought they did a good job collaborating on this tune.

Believe In Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAW6Q75FNw

Yes, that is a great tune!

[annie89509]

I don't see much "bashing" of AP here...not any more than "bashing" of SP, SA, JSS, NS, JC, etc. Like someone said, that's the way it rolls around here.

[Andrew]

This site is also loaded with people who worship JSS. And also loaded with people who are racist and rip on AP because of his nationality. Before anyone gets their panties in a wad over what I just said, I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't like AP is a racist. But many people rip on the guy because of his nationality.
Also, there are many people that rip on AP because their pissed that Perry's not in the band anymore, or Augeri's not in the band anymore, or JSS isn't in the band anymore.

For starters how about some of us just simply prefer Jeff's pipes over Arnels. Doesn't mean I dislike Arnel (or am racist) or worship JSS.

My comments certainly weren't directed at you, Deb.

And I was trying to make it clear that I wasn't saying that everyone that likes JSS better than AP, or that just plain dislikes AP, is a racist.

I'm sure that there are some people on here that for whatever reason just don't care for AP's voice. But it seems to me that the bigger majority of people that bash AP do so because of a racist agenda, or because their pissed that their guy isn't in Journey anymore.

No problem, sorry..........Steveo was calling JSS fans 'organisms' yesterday......and was thinking sheesh, now we're 'racists' today?

No, I definitely was not saying that JSS fans are racists. My "racists" comment didn't have anything to do with JSS fans, Perry fans, or Augeri fans. It's just that IMHO a lot of the bashing that AP receives on here is because of a racist agenda. I was in no way trying to knock JSS or his fans!

Start throwing the racist word around on this forum and you stay here might be shorter than you wish.

[Andrew]

I' The song wasn't all that good and supposedly JSS didn't have good writing chemistry with Schon and Cain and wanted a vocalist that had more of the legacy Journey sound.

I thought that song was 100% Cain.

It was 100% Cain. And s one off song written for a specific occasion. Nothing to do with JSS and ridiculous to use that as any argument.

You want to bring JSS writing credits into this, then use some of the Soul Sirkus tracks (like Coming Home) and his solo cowrite with Neal Believe In Me.

[Andrew]

The whole JSS/Journey split has been detailed in many speculative posts here over the years.

Let's sum it up in one word. Personalities.

There...Sorted.

[Melissa]

He's a great singer, but he doesn't fit Journey for me.

And that's how some of us feel about AP. Something simple you just can't seem to grasp without getting so defensive about Princess Keytar and his decisions.

[Gideon]

He's a great singer, but he doesn't fit Journey for me.

And that's how some of us feel about AP. Something simple you just can't seem to grasp without getting so defensive about Princess Keytar and his decisions.

Completely off-topic, but what is the origin of the attacks on Cain's masculinity? I see the guy and compare him to Perry and I know immediately who would kick whose ass in a fight.

[Greg]

No, I definitely was not saying that JSS fans are racists. My "racists" comment didn't have anything to do with JSS fans, Perry fans, or Augeri fans. It's just that IMHO a lot of the bashing that AP receives on here is because of a racist agenda. I was in no way trying to knock JSS or his fans!

Whoaa...I think you need to be careful about throwing out the racist card toward the "majority" of folks here who are not Arnel fans. I don't see any evidence of this being true for that "majority". Consider me not so much an Arnel fan, but believe me when I say it has nothing to do with his race/nationality. Quite frankly, I find such a statement very offensive in itself.

Well, like I mentioned in one of my other posts, I also said that sometimes people bash AP because their pissed that their guy, meaning Perry, Augeri or JSS, is no longer in the band.

I did not direct my "racists" comment at any one person on here. If someone knows in their heart that they do not bash AP because of his nationality, then they should not be bothered by my comment, because it was not directed at them.

If someone knows that they do bash him because of his nationality, then my comment is directed at their racist ass.

Also, there's a difference between being "Not so much of an Arnel fan" and bashing as I said.

If someone doesn't care for his singing, that's fine. I'm definitely not saying that that makes them racist. But many people bash AP on here and claim all kinds of crap that's not even close to true about him, in regards to his singing.

I mentioned in one of my other posts that I don't feel that Robin McAuley is a good fit in Survivor. I much prefer the singing of Jimi Jamison and Dave Bickler. Especially in Survivor. If I had my way, either Jamison or Bickler would be back in Survivor, in place of McAuley. But I don't bash Robin McAuley.

And there's way more similarity vocally between Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda, than there is between Jamison and McAuley.

I can see why someone that likes the smoothness of Jamison's vocals may not like the roughness of McAuley's. Their kind of night and day as singers. But Perry and AP are very similar vocally. Yes, I like Perry's vocals better. but there's no denying that AP does a great job on Perry's vocals.

No, no, no, no....there you go again assuming why people here don't like Arnel fronting Journey. You're either calling them racist or calling them sore losers. The fact that you made a blanket statement for the "majority" of those who are not Arnel fans and then saying if someone speaks up and says, "Hey, I'm offended by your comments, because I do not fall in that racist category nor angry because they didn't pick a former Journey singer" then they are the guilty ones of being racist or sore losers is flat out ignorant on your behalf, if not extremely illogical. And I will add that I am pretty sure Andrew is not going to put up with those comments on this forum for very long. If you love Arnel in Journey, great. But, there's going to be people who don't love Arnel in the band for reasons much different from what you claim. So, STFU with your hate message and learn to accept those Journey fans who don't accept everything Journey does as the greatest thing to ever happen.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You want to bring JSS writing credits into this, then use some of the Soul Sirkus tracks (like Coming Home) and his solo cowrite with Neal Believe In Me.

Exactly. If anything, Cain was threatened to bring another songwriter on board.

[Pelata]

I think Schon and Soto had great writing chemistry...the Soul Sirkus album was great and the song they wrote on Soto's solo album "Believe In Me" is fantastic...that song would have been awesome on Revelation and, IMO, Soto would have nailed every track on that album.

[AR]

I could be the worst person to respond to this but I will. Arnel is an amazing singer. Period.

However it is odd to hear an accent on songs written by a California band.

It is a Cultural thing - not racist.

Playing the race card is a lazy bullshit thing.

Soto is Puerto Rican. I never bitched.

Call me racist. Go for it. A small Asian guy fronting Journey IS odd at best. I have a Howard Stern sense of humor and said a lot of stuff. That is just me.

I respect AP's talent. Not my thing but I am rooting for him.

I wish my friend Jeff the best and I am rooting for Pineda. Terrific talent.

[Gideon]

That doesn't make you racist, Ed. The accent is a legitimate complaint.

[donnaplease]

I'm attached to the music. That's why we're all here or, at least, why we all came here initially. It's about the art, not the artist.

If that were truly the case, we would see MUCH less personal attack bullshit toward them. I think that is a logical rationalization, just simply not accurate.

[donnaplease]

Well, like I mentioned in one of my other posts, I also said that sometimes people bash AP because their pissed that their guy, meaning Perry, Augeri or JSS, is no longer in the band.

I did not direct my "racists" comment at any one person on here. If someone knows in their heart that they do not bash AP because of his nationality, then they should not be bothered by my comment, because it was not directed at them.

If someone knows that they do bash him because of his nationality, then my comment is directed at their racist ass.

Also, there's a difference between being "Not so much of an Arnel fan" and bashing as I said.

If someone doesn't care for his singing, that's fine. I'm definitely not saying that that makes them racist. But many people bash AP on here and claim all kinds of crap that's not even close to true about him, in regards to his singing.

I mentioned in one of my other posts that I don't feel that Robin McAuley is a good fit in Survivor. I much prefer the singing of Jimi Jamison and Dave Bickler. Especially in Survivor. If I had my way, either Jamison or Bickler would be back in Survivor, in place of McAuley. But I don't bash Robin McAuley.

And there's way more similarity vocally between Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda, than there is between Jamison and McAuley.

I can see why someone that likes the smoothness of Jamison's vocals may not like the roughness of McAuley's. Their kind of night and day as singers. But Perry and AP are very similar vocally. Yes, I like Perry's vocals better. but there's no denying that AP does a great job on Perry's vocals.

You can dislike what Arnel's asian heritage brings to his DELIVERY of the songs without hating him for that heritage. To me, it has always been odd that an "American" band would hire someone to sing for them whose primary language was not english. Racism implies hatred. I don't hate Arnel in any way. I admire his vocal talent. I'm not impressed by his delivery of the songs, primarily because of the diction, and I find his stage antics ridiculous.

I still think Yao Ming looks odd on the basketball court, because we don't normally see 7'6" chinese guys, but that doesn't take away from his talent as a basketball player. Does that make me racist too?

[Gideon]

I'm attached to the music. That's why we're all here or, at least, why we all came here initially. It's about the art, not the artist.

If that were truly the case, we would see MUCH less personal attack bullshit toward them. I think that is a logical rationalization, just simply not accurate.

Not really. In my case, if it weren't about the music, then I'd dislike Perry's music and so on less. I don't.

[donnaplease]

I'm attached to the music. That's why we're all here or, at least, why we all came here initially. It's about the art, not the artist.

If that were truly the case, we would see MUCH less personal attack bullshit toward them. I think that is a logical rationalization, just simply not accurate.

Not really. In my case, if it weren't about the music, then I'd dislike Perry's music and so on less. I don't.

Yet you haven't refrained from attacking him personally in the past. How do you explain that?

[Gideon]

I'm attached to the music. That's why we're all here or, at least, why we all came here initially. It's about the art, not the artist.

If that were truly the case, we would see MUCH less personal attack bullshit toward them. I think that is a logical rationalization, just simply not accurate.

Not really. In my case, if it weren't about the music, then I'd dislike Perry's music and so on less. I don't.

Yet you haven't refrained from attacking him personally in the past. How do you explain that?

I'm not sure why you're making something so complex out of something so simple: That I'm attached to Perry's music doesn't mean I can't have opinions on his conduct. The idea that it's one or the other is frankly stupid. The critical difference is that the behavior of these men does not impact my view of the music they made. Perry's no less of a singer, Neal's no less of a guitarist, et cetera. So the long and short of it is that I can still comment on the bullshit that went around while still not burning him in effigy or wishing ill upon him or something else out of Deano's diary.

[donnaplease]

I'm attached to the music. That's why we're all here or, at least, why we all came here initially. It's about the art, not the artist.

If that were truly the case, we would see MUCH less personal attack bullshit toward them. I think that is a logical rationalization, just simply not accurate.

Not really. In my case, if it weren't about the music, then I'd dislike Perry's music and so on less. I don't.

Yet you haven't refrained from attacking him personally in the past. How do you explain that?

I'm not sure why you're making something so complex out of something so simple: That I'm attached to Perry's music doesn't mean I can't have opinions on his conduct. The idea that it's one or the other is frankly stupid. The critical difference is that the behavior of these men does not impact my view of the music they made. Perry's no less of a singer, Neal's no less of a guitarist, et cetera. So the long and short of it is that I can still comment on the bullshit that went around while still not burning him in effigy or wishing ill upon him or something else out of Deano's diary.

I agree that it's a combination of both, but people who say "it's only about the music" but continually lambast particular members (current or former) are disingenuous and hypocritical, IMO. If it doesn't matter about their behavior, why comment on it? Dan (who I love) is hugely guilty of this. After JSS was fired and Arnel hired, he repeatedly rationalized his continued attendance at concerts by saying "it's all about the music" but is one of the main offenders attacking SP or JSS for any reason, and particularly commenting about their personalities. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the talk about the men behind the art, and I try to take the good with the bad. But as Deb said, if I can't respect them as individuals, I tend to have a lesser view of them as artists. On the flip side, hearing repeatedly what a nice guy Arnel is makes me like him a little better.

[ForceInfinity]

Hell, I figure with JSS out of Journey, we got WET, his time with TSO, and whatever projects he'll come up with going forward as opposed to one album and a shit ton of touring. I figure JSS and fans got the better end of the deal on this one...

[donnaplease]

Hell, I figure with JSS out of Journey, we got WET, his time with TSO, and whatever projects he'll come up with going forward as opposed to one album and a shit ton of touring. I figure JSS and fans got the better end of the deal on this one...

Agreed.

[SusieP]

I'm with Deb on the issue of vocals.

If a singer's voice - no matter how good it is - doesn't reach me inside, then I'm not that into them.

I FEEL the voice as much as hear it.

Arnel's voice hasn't reached me. So I'm not that fussed about him. And I couldn't give a shit about his accent or country of origin.


JSS has the kind of voice I can feel.

And Perry does. Or rather DID.

Same with Neal's guitar. That reaches me, and yeh, I hate the way he has treated people along the way, but I still love to hear him play and it pisses me off BIG TIME that he does not get the recognition he deserves as a player.

I'm more annoyed about that than his bad treatment of people such as JSS during the appointment as lead singer and subsequent sneaky firing episode.











PS,

Deb - I keep hearing this track on UK Radio and his vocal combined with the chorus of the song have grabbed me.
What do you think?

Do you get a reading on the soul-feeling o meter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgRb_lfIZ6A

[Deb]

I'm with Deb on the issue of vocals.

If a singer's voice - no matter how good it is - doesn't reach me inside, then I'm not that into them.

I FEEL the voice as much as hear it. Can tell, you sing with a lot of feeling yourself.

Arnel's voice hasn't reached me. So I'm not that fussed about him. And I couldn't give a shit about his accent or country of origin.


JSS has the kind of voice I can feel. Definitely.....somebody just put this one up (Broken Man) from the Madrid dvd ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXUg013QZQk Love it! Gonna have to pull this dvd out again.

And Perry does. Or rather DID.

[Rip Rokken]

JSS, like Foreigner's Kelly Hansen, can sing and is a frontman that kicks the rest of the band into high gear. Arnel is a tremendous singer and little else.

You have to be KIDDING... You don't credit AP for having an energetic stage presence, or a solid connection with the band and audience during a show?

[Deb]

PS,

Deb - I keep hearing this track on UK Radio and his vocal combined with the chorus of the song have grabbed me.
What do you think?

Do you get a reading on the soul-feeling o meter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgRb_lfIZ6A

Will give this one a proper listen tonight/this weekend. I can't really listen to any youtubes above a whisper here at work....

Speaking of soul, did you catch that Michael Grimm performance I posted up in the top forum.......great bluesy/soulful vocals.......IMO sadly missing in today's artists.

[SusieP]

PS,

Deb - I keep hearing this track on UK Radio and his vocal combined with the chorus of the song have grabbed me.
What do you think?

Do you get a reading on the soul-feeling o meter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgRb_lfIZ6A

Will give this one a proper listen tonight/this weekend. I can't really listen to any youtubes above a whisper here at work....

Speaking of soul, did you catch that Michael Grimm performance I posted up in the top forum.......great bluesy/soulful vocals.......IMO sadly missing in today's artists.

Re the clip I've posted, its taken me a while to find out who the singer is. Kept hearing snippets on the radio but not hearing them announce his name.

There's just something about it.
Its not released yet, so its going on my MP3 player as soon as poss.
He has a look of Springsteen to his face.
There's a soul in his vocal.
A tad Rod Stewart in parts, but better.

You may not agree.
But the song really grabbed me, and we have to pass on info about new voices. It's the Law!


And yes, Michael Grimm. We recently had that series of American Idol on UK tv and his voice grabbed me as well. Soul is definitely present.



And yeh, about putting feeling into your singing - for me that is essential. You can't just stand there and sing in tune. You HAVE to emote. You have to act out the words.

[Michigan Girl]

I'm with Deb on the issue of vocals.

If a singer's voice - no matter how good it is - doesn't reach me inside, then I'm not that into them.

I feel ya dawgs/bitches!!