Audience at tea party debate cheers leaving uninsured to die

[ebake02]

I'm speechless....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/1 ... 59354.html

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Well if you actually listen to the clip Ron Paul didn't say he would leave the person to die. In fact he notes as a doctor he treated plenty of uninsured people and never turned anyone away.

His answer is actually perfect libertarian response. The able bodied sound minded thirty year old with with the means to pay does indeed have a right not to buy insurance. If he decides that he wil get more value and more happines spending his money on other things , he ought to be allowed to take that risk as long as he is willing to suffer the consequences of his choices.

Too bad Wolf Blitzer the sanctimonius folks at the huffington post dont't understand or respect the concept of human liberty.

[Archetype]

Well if you actually listen to the clip Ron Paul didn't say he would leave the person to die. In fact he notes as a doctor he treated plenty of uninsured people and never turned anyone away.

His answer is actually perfect libertarian response. The able bodied sound minded thirty year old with with the means to pay does indeed have a right not to buy insurance. If he chooses that he wil get more value and more hapines spending his money on other things , he ought to be allowed to take that risk as long as he is willing to suffer the consequences of his choices.

Too bad Wolf Blitzer the sanctimonius folks at the huffington post dont't understand or respect the concept of human liberty.

Perfect response

[AR]

I don't believe health care is a right. You have a right to health care if you can pay for it, if you can earn it by your own action and effort. Nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because they want or desperately need them.

[Behshad]

I don't believe health care is a right. You have a right to health care if you can pay for it, if you can earn it by your own action and effort. Nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because they want or desperately need them.

Of course you have to pay for health care, but HEALTH INSURANCE should be more affordable so EVERYONE can afford & have insurance.

[Archetype]

I don't believe health care is a right. You have a right to health care if you can pay for it, if you can earn it by your own action and effort. Nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because they want or desperately need them.

Of course you have to pay for health care, but HEALTH INSURANCE should be more affordable so EVERYONE can afford & have insurance.

There will always be someone who can't afford it. Where do we draw the line?

[Behshad]

I don't believe health care is a right. You have a right to health care if you can pay for it, if you can earn it by your own action and effort. Nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because they want or desperately need them.

Of course you have to pay for health care, but HEALTH INSURANCE should be more affordable so EVERYONE can afford & have insurance.

There will always be someone who can't afford it. Where do we draw the line?

OK , anyone WORKING should be allowed to buy healthcare by paying around 5% of his income for insurance for himself, or 10% of his income for his family,... better?

[Seven Wishes2]

I have no problem with my hard-earned tax dollars going towards someone in true need, who works hard, and simply cannot afford insurance.

Medicaid and the lazy? Different story. Again, how do you regulate it? It's too big to tackle.

[steveo777]

Maybe some of the money could come from the following funds:
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.0..html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html


Looks like there is a lot we could tap into to take care of our own legal citizens in this country.

[Behshad]

Maybe some of the money could come from the following funds:
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.0..html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html


Looks like there is a lot we could tap into to take care of our own legal citizens in this country.

instead of breakin it down, you shouldve basically said DONT SPEND A PENNY ON ANYONE HERE ILLEGALLY AND WE CAN ALL AFFORD INSURANCE & HEALTHCARE

[steveo777]

Maybe some of the money could come from the following funds:
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.0..html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html


Looks like there is a lot we could tap into to take care of our own legal citizens in this country.

instead of breakin it down, you shouldve basically said DONT SPEND A PENNY ON ANYONE HERE ILLEGALLY AND WE CAN ALL AFFORD INSURANCE & HEALTHCARE

I wanted to paint a picture of how huge of a deal this is. It's pretty fucking ridiculous, don't ya think? Sure, we can also take a look at
the drain another echelon of society puts on the tax payers, infact, several generations of them.
America is a wealthy country; too bad our funds are so grossly misappropriated.

[ebake02]

I watch part of that debate and the bullshit was so deep I don't know how they could stand on that stage.

[Don]

Maybe some of the money could come from the following funds:
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.0..html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html


Looks like there is a lot we could tap into to take care of our own legal citizens in this country.

I think we need to look at the complete picture here.

The chain letter where a lot of your text originally comes from takes quite a few liberties with the numbers. Here is a breakdown of those points one by one.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-o ... mmigrants/

Cost of Illegal Immigrants

April 6, 2009
Bookmark and Share

Q: Do illegal immigrants cost $338.3 billion dollars a year? More than the Iraq war?

A: A chain e-mail that makes this claim is loaded with errors and misleading assertions. Published studies vary widely but put the cost to government at a small fraction of that total.

FULL QUESTION

I wonder if much of this is true? Is this on your radar screen?

This is astounding and infuriating. Why isn’t this in the papers? Please read and pass it on.

⬐ Click to expand/collapse the full text ⬏

FULL ANSWER

This chain e-mail has been forwarded to us by readers many times over the past year. The most recent version adds a new angle, claiming that the amount of money taxpayers spend on illegal immigrants would be enough to "stimulate the economy." But no matter the spin, the e-mail is rife with errors.

It also contains several red flags that should tip off readers that this is more bogus than believable. For one thing, the figures given don’t add up to a "whopping $338.3 billion dollars a year" spent on illegal immigrants in the U.S., as the e-mail claims.

The e-mail lists 14 claims about illegal immigrants, all of which were included in a longer list penned by anti-immigration activist Frosty Wooldridge and published on the conservative Web site NewswithViews.com on Jan. 22, 2007. Another NewswithViews columnist, Lynn Stuter, included Wooldridge’s list, with some updated links, in an article posted on April 15, 2008.

The source cited for at least nine of the items is either the conservative Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) or the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), both of which call for more restrictive immigration laws. CIS spokesman Bryan Griffith told us that he had never seen the e-mail but that he suspected something was out there because of occasional surges in traffic that forced him to rewrite Web pages. When told about the e-mail’s contents and conclusion of a $338.3 billion yearly cost, he responded that CIS "never said anything of the like and is not going to comment on a chain e-mail that is in no way scientific."

The e-mail also continually blurs the important distinction between legal and illegal immigrants – a sign of sloppy and untrustworthy work.

Summary

Because we’re gluttons for punishment, we’ve gone through each claim in turn and report on each in detail farther down. But here are a few highlights (or lowlights) of what we found:

The e-mail includes a link to a CIS report that contradicts some of the e-mail’s own claims. The report found that illegal immigrant welfare use "tends to be very low." It also estimates the total federal net cost of households headed by illegal immigrants at under $10.4 billion, a small fraction of what this message claims.

One "paper" that is cited is a non-peer-reviewed, non-scientific study that essentially fabricates a number for illegal immigrant criminals.


Five of the links lead to transcripts of Lou Dobbs’ cable television show, which fulminates regularly against illegal immigration and is hardly a neutral source. Furthermore, in all instances, the e-mail then takes the original Dobbs reporting out of context.

So, how much do illegal immigrants cost federal, state and local governments in the U.S.? Estimates vary widely, and no consensus exists. The Urban Institute put the net national cost at $1.9 billion in 1992; a Rice University professor, whose work the Urban Institute criticized, said it was $19.3 billion in 1993. More recently, a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office examined 29 reports on state and local costs published over 15 years in an attempt to answer this question. CBO concluded that most of the estimates determined that illegal immigrants impose a net cost to state and local governments but "that impact is most likely modest." CBO said "no agreement exists as to the size of, or even the best way of measuring, that cost on a national level."

The Details

For those who want more, we take on each of the e-mail’s claims in order:

1. "$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year."

This item is completely false. The link given to "verify" the claim actually leads to an issue brief by the conservative Federation for American Immigration Reform. But the FAIR brief says nothing of the sort. It says: "Each year, state governments spend an estimated $11 billion to $22 billion to provide welfare to immigrants." That’s welfare payments in 2001 to all immigrants – both legal and illegal – plus households including U.S. citizens if they are headed by a person who was born outside the United States.

The site says the FAIR report was last updated in October 2002, but a footnote credits this statistic to a March 2003 report from the Center for Immigration Studies. CIS began as an off-shoot of FAIR. But the CIS report doesn’t actually say anything about $11 billion or $22 billion. And it explains that its references to "immigrant households" include persons here legally and persons born outside the U.S.

CIS report: Like the Census Bureau, and other academic work that has examined this question, this report looks at welfare use by immigrant and native households. Households are defined as immigrant or native based on the nativity of the household head. As already indicated, this report uses the terms immigrant and foreign-born synonymously.

CIS estimated that welfare payments to illegal immigrant households averaged $1,040 per household in 2001, mainly Medicaid "on behalf of their U.S.-born children." But the report did not attempt to come up with a total for all such households.

2. "$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens."

3. "$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens."

These figures supposedly come from a 2004 report by CIS that estimated the costs to the federal government of households headed by illegal immigrants in 2002. But the CIS report actually put the costs of food stamp, WIC and free school lunch programs to "illegal alien households" at $1.9 billion, not the $2.2 billion claimed in the e-mail. The $2.5 billion figure for Medicaid to such households is quoted accurately, but again, much of this was in benefits for U.S.-born children, who are citizens.

Most interesting is that the CIS report includes a total net cost estimate to the federal government for illegal immigrants of just under $10.4 billion for the year, after accounting for the taxes these immigrants paid. That doesn’t include any potential costs to state or local governments, but it’s a far cry from this e-mail’s cost claim of $338.3 billion.

CIS report: Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Even CIS’ figures have been questioned by other researchers. The Urban Institute reviewed a related 2003 CIS paper and concluded that its "methods overstate the percentage of the population receiving Medicaid and the share of immigrants on Medicaid, resulting in misleading conclusions about welfare use among immigrants."

Even so, the CIS report actually rebuts claims repeated by this chain e-mail:

CIS: Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don’t pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work “on the books.”

4. "$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!"

5."$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies."

Both links given to "verify" these claims lead to an April 1, 2006, episode of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN. During the show, correspondent Christine Romans cited both of these stats and attributed them to FAIR. A FAIR research paper from 2005 does include these cost projections, but a closer look shows that the underlying assumptions are inflated or unsupported.

The FAIR report starts with the presumption that there are "1.5 million school-aged illegal immigrants residing in the United States." That figure is attributed to an Urban Institute presentation that doesn’t actually say that. Instead, the Urban Institute said: "We estimate that there are about 1.4 million undocumented children under 18 with about 1.1 million of school age (5 -19)."

The FAIR report also assumes there are 2 million "U.S.-born siblings" of illegal immigrant families. However, the Urban Institute makes no estimates of U.S.-born siblings and FAIR gives no citation for its figure. And in any case, again, those U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are themselves U.S. citizens and not "illegal aliens."

6. "$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens."

7. "30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens."

Both of these claims can be traced back to that same April 1, 2006, episode of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN, in the same segment, with the same correspondent, Christine Romans. But the e-mail misrepresents what Romans said. She gave figures for people who are "not U.S. citizens," a category that would include legal residents as well as "illegal aliens."

Romans said that "according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 30 percent of federal prisoners are not U.S. citizens," adding that "most are thought to be illegal aliens." Actually, the Federal Bureau of Prisons does not keep figures on illegal immigrants. What solid numbers we can find point to a much smaller figure. A Department of Justice report from 2003 found that only 1.6 percent of the state and federal prison populations was under Immigration and Customs Enforcement jurisdiction, and thus known to be illegal immigrants. Half of these prisoners were detained only because they were here illegally, not for other crimes.

The Bureau of Prisons does track prisoners by offense when information is available. By that metric, 10.7 percent of prisoners in federal jails were incarcerated for immigration offenses in 2009. In 2006, when Romans gave her report, the figure was 10.2 percent.

The "$3 million dollar a day" figure is based on the false assumption that 30 percent of all inmates are illegal immigrants, and thus is greatly inflated.

8. "$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers."

The link to "verify" this claim is dead. However, we found a transcript of a Lou Dobbs episode on Oct. 29, 2006, in which Robert Rector of the conservative Heritage Foundation made the following statement:

Robert Rector, Oct. 29, 2006: Well, assuming that we have about 11 million immigrants in the U.S., the net cost or the total cost of services and benefits provided to them, education, welfare, general social services would be about $90 billion a year, and they would pay very little in taxes. It’s important to remember that at least half of illegal immigrants are high school dropouts.

We checked with Rector, who said he was referring to both legal and illegal low-skill immigrant households (those headed by someone who doesn’t have a high school diploma). His research also looked at many forms of government spending per household, including money spent on parks and transportation.

9. "$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens."

Again, this is from that same April 1, 2006, Lou Dobbs episode. On the show, Dobbs said that "estimates by the most authoritative and recent study put the suppressed wages at $200 billion a year, as a result of immigration, both legal and illegal." The e-mail continues its practice of ignoring any distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

We couldn’t find any study that supported Dobb’s figure.

10. "The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US"

This is false. The "verify" link leads to yet another transcript of Lou Dobbs speaking with Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation. This one is dated June 12, 2006, and Rector says, "Hispanics in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-Hispanics."

Rector said Hispanics, not illegal immigrants, as the e-mail alleges. Considering there are 45.4 million Hispanics in the country, and an estimated 11.9 million illegal immigrants, the distinction is notable. Rector’s statistic for all Hispanics is correct, according to a 2003 report from the Justice Department.

11. " During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. "

The link goes to a 2006 report written by the Republican staff of the House Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on Homeland Security. To start, the "19,500" number of "illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries" is nowhere to be found in this report. In fact, the report estimates the number of illegal immigrants coming over the southern border from countries known to harbor terrorists to be in the "hundreds." We’ve seen a similar scare tactic used previously in ads advocating for a border fence.

And the 4 million to 10 million statistic is extrapolated using some imprecise reasoning. The committee report figures that since "Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million illegal aliens" in 2005 and since "Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended," that "therefore, in 2005, as many as 10 to 4 million [sic] illegal aliens crossed into the United States." That simplistic math produces a figure starkly different from more widely accepted estimates. The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that in 2005 there were 11.1 million illegal immigrants total, living in the United States. The center also estimated that about 500,000 illegal immigrants a year came to the U.S. from 2005 to 2008.

12. "The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’ "

No, it didn’t. The National Policy Institute, a group that says it promotes the rights of "white Americans," ironically was citing figures from the liberal Center for American Progress in a report that argued against mass deportation of undocumented workers. CAP said such deportation would cost more per year than the entire Department of Homeland Security budget, illustrating "the false allure of deportation as a response to our broken immigration system."

13. "In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin."

This is another bogus figure. The email’s link leads to the original Frosty Wooldridge article, which in turn cites as its source for this figure a link to a Contra-Costa Times article, which is no longer working. Nevertheless, we were able to find a news release from the Inter-American Development Bank stating Latin American immigrants sent $45 billion in remittances in 2006. But that figure applies to all immigrants, including legal residents.

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States."

Once again, the "verify" link is dead. But a little Internet research found the article cited. An independently published, non-peer-reviewed study did estimate that nearly a million sex crimes have been committed by illegal immigrants over a seven-year period, but it employs some highly creative math and interesting assumptions to get there. The "study" is actually a pretty good case study in bad research.

The author assumes that 2 percent of illegal immigrants are sex offenders after "examining ICE reports and public records," but does not say how that figure was calculated. A bibliography cites miscellaneous Immigration and Customs Enforcement press releases and media accounts of instances of apprehending illegal immigrants who were sex offenders (seemingly manufacturing a "rate" based on anecdotal evidence). The author then makes no distinction between male and female illegal immigrants when estimating the number that are "sex offenders."

As we’ve said before, anonymous chain e-mails making dramatic claims are quite likely to be false. And that goes even for those that may seem to cite legitimate sources. This one is yet another good candidate for the "delete" key.

– Justin Bank
Sources

Steven A. Camarota, “Back Where We Started: An Examination of Trends in Immigrant Welfare Use Since Welfare Reform,” Center for Immigration Studies, March 2003.

Camarota, Steven A., "The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget," Center for Immigration Studies, August 2004.

Immigration and Welfare," Federation for American Immigration Reform, Oct 2002.

A Line in the Sand: Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border," prepared by the Majority Staff of House Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on Investigations, Nov 2006.

Goyle, Rajeev, "Deporting the Undocumented: A Cost Assessment," Center for American Progress. 26 July 2005.

Sending Money Home: Leveraging the Development Impact of Remittances," Inter-American Development Bank. 18 Oct 2006.

Schurman-Kauflin, Dr. Deborah, "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants in the United States," Violent Crimes Institute, 2006.

Martin, Jack, "Breaking the Piggy Bank: How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the Red," Federation for American Immigration Reform. June 2005.

Fix, Michael and Passel, Jeffrey, "U.S. Immigration—Trends and Implications for Schools," Immigration Studies Program, The Urban Institute, 2003.

"Estimates of the Unauthorized Immigrant Population Residing in the United States: 1990-2000," Office of Policy Planning, U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, January 2003.

"Table 169, Current Expenditure Per Pupil in Fall Enrollment in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools, by State: 1969-70 to 1999-00," Digest of Education Statistics 2002, National Center for Education Statistics, U.S. Department of Education.

Posted by Justin Bank on Monday, April 6, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Filed under Ask FactCheck · Tagged with illegal immigrants, Iraq

[Behshad]

We need to send someone to check Don's alien status documents !

[steveo777]

The costs are still astronomical, no matter how the numbers actually pan out.

[Behshad]

I watch part of that debate and the bullshit was so deep I don't know how they could stand on that stage.

I think that's because you're a liberal who can't understand normal thinking, hell, you didn't even understand the context of the clip you posted. ...I watched the debate and thought it was awesome with plenty of great ideas for the Country. Newt, Perry, Michelle, Santorm, Cain, Romney and even Santorum would be 10 times better than the duffus in the Wh right now. Paul is a nutbag and Huntsman is way to gay acting and plain vanilla to go anywhere.

and thats because youre a diehard republican, who cant think for yourself

[ebake02]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

[RossValoryRocks]

I have no problem with my hard-earned tax dollars going towards someone in true need, who works hard, and simply cannot afford insurance.

Medicaid and the lazy? Different story. Again, how do you regulate it? It's too big to tackle.

I am mostly in agreement with you here.

The bigger problem is that companies will start dropping insurance for their employees as soon as Obamacare comes into full effect (rather the companies not on Obama's prefered waivers list), they will only pay a $500/month fine for each employee, because the cost is WAY lower than what they pay for their portion of insurance...so now all those people will have to go onto the government dole, and who exactly is going to pay for it?

[Michigan Girl]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

NO!! You should be taken care of, noone should be left to die.
You'll just have a larger bill to pay for your care. Usually hospitals
set up payment plans and work w/you on the bill.

I watched this debate and the audience did seem cold, but I had to
remind myself that they are pissed, like me, and airing their frustrations just
as we do here.

[RossValoryRocks]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

Go get a better job...or work 2 pissy jobs so you can afford health care. Better yet...just get a catastrophic policy that would cover you in the event of something like a car wreck, or other major incident. Oh wait...if you are in a car wreck the auto insurance will pick it up.

There are ways if you are willing to step up and do them, rather than depending on other people to provide for you...when I got laid off I worked 3 part time jobs to cover myself and my family and pay bills until something better came along.

Try this too...cut out cable and internet service, maybe even a cell phone and I bet you could find a way to come up with the money.

[Behshad]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

I'm 51 and wife is 48 and our health ins. cost $210.26 a month, that is not outregeous, and no one is going to leave you on the side of the road to die, just call Ron Paul. Hell, my daughter just visited here from England where she has NHS which doesn't cover her here. She came down with bad bronchitis and I took her to the Kroger Little Clinic and for $69 plus $24 for a z-pak and she was fine in 2 days. That is not outrageous.

Well of course anyone can get great treatment at local groecry store,, and you told her the guy in the meat section with the butcher coat was the doctor eh ?

[RossValoryRocks]

I don't believe health care is a right. You have a right to health care if you can pay for it, if you can earn it by your own action and effort. Nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because they want or desperately need them.

Of course you have to pay for health care, but HEALTH INSURANCE should be more affordable so EVERYONE can afford & have insurance.

B...should we have to pay for your life insurance too???? I mean, I hope it doesn't happen for awhile, if you do should the government pay for a nice $200,000 insurance policy for you kids that comes out of tax money that???

[Seven Wishes2]

I watch part of that debate and the bullshit was so deep I don't know how they could stand on that stage.

I think that's because you're a liberal who can't understand normal thinking, hell, you didn't even understand the context of the clip you posted. ...I watched the debate and thought it was awesome with plenty of great ideas for the Country. Newt, Perry, Michelle, Cain, Romney and even Santorum would be 10 times better than the duffus in the Wh right now. Paul is a nutbag and Huntsman is way to gay acting and plain vanilla to go anywhere.

Your answers are always so simplistic and lack any viable dissonance and validations. You're just a cheerleader for the ignorant.

[Ehwmatt]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

Wait just a minute here. Aren't you relatively young (26, 27?) and presumably healthy? Don't you also live at home or at least did so until very recently? You should have no problem buying a policy for yourself. In fact, I buy my own coverage and don't use my employer's coverage at all. It's cheaper and I'm not subsidizing some old partner's sick wife. Even with the student loans you incessantly bitch about on here, maybe you need to go take a financial planning class or talk to a financial planner who can help you allocate basic funds.

One of the biggest problems with insurance in this country is it's used the wrong way. If you go see your doctor for something routine (e..g, a physical), you should pay the $60 out of pocket. The administrative costs involved in the misuse of insurance in this manner really help contribute to the sky-high medical costs.

The fact of the matter is that most Americans don't want to buy something they don't see as a luxury. But then when they need it and realize they can't afford a basic policy when something unexpected happens (even a 21 year old olympic athlete can get seriously ill and be forced into a hospital stay), they bitch and moan about the cost.

[ebake02]

I watch part of that debate and the bullshit was so deep I don't know how they could stand on that stage.

Newt, Perry, Michelle, Cain, Romney and even Santorum would be 10 times better than the duffus in the Wh right now.

Seriously.

Newt - Responsible for the last 2 government shutdowns.
Perry - His state has one of the worst education systems in the country
Michelle - Opposes minimum wage increases and wants to eliminate the federal minimum wage
Romney - Supports No Child Left Behind
Santorum - Lied about Iraq containing WMDs

Those are some really good candidates you've got there.

[Behshad]

I don't believe health care is a right. You have a right to health care if you can pay for it, if you can earn it by your own action and effort. Nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because they want or desperately need them.

Of course you have to pay for health care, but HEALTH INSURANCE should be more affordable so EVERYONE can afford & have insurance.

B...should we have to pay for your life insurance too???? I mean, I hope it doesn't happen for awhile, if you do should the government pay for a nice $200,000 insurance policy for you kids that comes out of tax money that???

Nope, I didnt say the government should pay for health insurance, it should be affordable just to HAVE INSURANCE. As I said above, do the health care insurance based on income and take 5% of a workers income to pay for his INSURANCE.

[Behshad]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

I'm 51 and wife is 48 and our health ins. cost $210.26 a month, that is not outregeous, and no one is going to leave you on the side of the road to die, just call Ron Paul. Hell, my daughter just visited here from England where she has NHS which doesn't cover her here. She came down with bad bronchitis and I took her to the Kroger Little Clinic and for $69 plus $24 for a z-pak and she was fine in 2 days. That is not outrageous.

Well of course anyone can get great treatment at local groecry store,, and you told her the guy in the meat section with the butcher coat was the doctor eh ?

Dude, get with the program, Krogers and Walgreens both offer clinics at select stores, and there are also plenty of Urgent Care places as well, it's getting up off of the hundo that has people all in a tizz...fuck em if they don't want skin in the game and I guess they should be left to suffer. I'm paying my way and I can't afford to pay anyone elses, over and above what my taxes already cover.

dude, get with the program yourself. What happened to your sense of humor ?

[ebake02]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

Wait just a minute here. Aren't you relatively young (26, 27?) and presumably healthy? Don't you also live at home or at least did so until very recently? You should have no problem buying a policy for yourself. In fact, I buy my own coverage and don't use my employer's coverage at all. It's cheaper and I'm not subsidizing some old partner's sick wife. Even with the student loans you incessantly bitch about on here, maybe you need to go take a financial planning class or talk to a financial planner who can help you allocate basic funds.

A 20 hour paycheck at 7.75/hour doesn't go very far asshole, half of my paychecks every week go towards putting gas in my car. My financial planning is just fine too so you can go fuck yourself.

[RossValoryRocks]

I watch part of that debate and the bullshit was so deep I don't know how they could stand on that stage.

Newt, Perry, Michelle, Cain, Romney and even Santorum would be 10 times better than the duffus in the Wh right now.

Seriously.

Newt - Responsible for the last 2 government shutdowns.
Perry - His state has one of the worst education systems in the country
Michelle - Opposes minimum wage increases and wants to eliminate the federal minimum wage
Romney - Supports No Child Left Behind
Santorum - Lied about Iraq containing WMDs

Those are some really good candidates you've got there.

Let's see...On the Santorum thing...so did Hillary, Bill (Hillary's wife), Kerry...the list is endless...they ALL did...until it became a political hot potato. Oops forgot the e...hot potatoe.
No Child Left Behind is supported by YOUR party as well...Hell Kennedy co-sponsored it.
Bachman has a point...forcing a business to pay a wage for a job that isn't worth the wage per hour is madness.
Perry state has one of the largest illegal immigrant populations in the country...go figure that the schools are doing terrible.
Newt shut the government down, yep, and he should have...But wait it takes 2 to tango...doesn't Clinton bear some responsibility for not working with the Congress to get things done??? Once Clinton started working with Congress to find common ground he became one of the better Presidents we have had in many respects.

[RossValoryRocks]

I posted this because of the audience reaction, the tea party railed against the health care bill saying the the "Democrats want to kill grandma" but now all the sudden it's ok to let grandma die if she doesn't have insurance? What about people like me who CAN'T AFFORD health insurance? I'm not eligible for health insurance through my employer because I only work part time and I can't afford the outrageous cost of getting it on my own. So, according to some of you people, if wreck my car on my way class tomorrow it's perfectly fine for the doctors and paramedics to leave me on the side of the road to die so the government doesn't have to pay my medical bills.

Wait just a minute here. Aren't you relatively young (26, 27?) and presumably healthy? Don't you also live at home or at least did so until very recently? You should have no problem buying a policy for yourself. In fact, I buy my own coverage and don't use my employer's coverage at all. It's cheaper and I'm not subsidizing some old partner's sick wife. Even with the student loans you incessantly bitch about on here, maybe you need to go take a financial planning class or talk to a financial planner who can help you allocate basic funds.

A 20 hour paycheck at 7.75/hour doesn't go very far asshole, half of my paychecks every week go towards putting gas in my car. My financial planning is just fine too so you can go fuck yourself.

How do you have internet?? Do you have a cell phone?? Why do you only have one job??? How are you paying for housing???

Go get a couple of jobs dude...I did...and I have a family...it was a sacrifice, but I did it. Look into catastrophic health insurance...it's dirt cheap...but pay for your own sore throats and stuff...it will save you a ton!