Religion & Morality

[parfait]

You still don't prove anything besides what's already stated. Atheism was never the motivation behind the murders. The Bolsheviks never killed anyone because of atheism. Atheism, meaning no religion, was however required to have a completely totalitarian and all-encompassing state. Sure subjugating the religious was a part of a greater plan, but that was never the subject. You said atheism had killed millions, and pointed to communism. That is, as shown above; a simple misconception.

Bullcrap...The evidence for it is just as strong as any baloney evidence you've managed to put out about religion killing millions of people.

The bible ban in China you talk of, is utter bullshit. China has the world's second-largest evangelical Christian population in the world, just behind the US. The numbers range from 3-10 % which is Christian in China. Check your facts next time.

I'm well aware of the Christian population in China. That doesn't mask the fact that the Bible is banned there. Nice try. Come a little stronger to the hoop next time because, so far, your attempts on the basket are being denied.

So let me get this straight. According to your logic, then religion is allowed, just not religious books? Seriously? http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1695279,00.html Read this link. Here's an excerpt: Under Chinese law, the Bibles Amity prints can be distributed only through officially sanctioned churches. But in recent years it has become easier for house churches to procure Bibles, often buying them through registered churches. ... Amity has churned out 41 million Bibles for Chinese believers at its plant outside the southern city of Nanjing, including more than 3 million copies last year. Banned? Yeah, right.

You say you have proper evidence for the fact that atheism has ever been the motivation behind "millions of deaths" - please provide them. Meaning where communism killed "millions of people" for the fact that they weren't atheists. Your words, not mine.

[conversationpc]

So let me get this straight. According to your logic, then religion is allowed, just not religious books? Seriously? http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1695279,00.html Read this link. Here's an excerpt: Under Chinese law, the Bibles Amity prints can be distributed only through officially sanctioned churches. But in recent years it has become easier for house churches to procure Bibles, often buying them through registered churches. ... Amity has churned out 41 million Bibles for Chinese believers at its plant outside the southern city of Nanjing, including more than 3 million copies last year. Banned? Yeah, right.

I personally know people who've gone to China and have not been allowed to take Bibles with them. They've had to smuggle them in order to distribute them once they are there. Their official word may be that it's not banned but, from what I know of Christians who've actually travelled there, the official story and what's happening in practice are different things.

You say you have proper evidence for the fact that atheism has ever been the motivation behind "millions of deaths" - please provide them. Meaning where communism killed "millions of people" for the fact that they weren't atheists. Your words, not mine.

What I'm saying is that if you can say religion is responsible for however many deaths, the same can be said for atheism. Where's YOUR evidence?

[conversationpc]

I'll retract my statement about the Bible being illegal...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... 24.46.html

Jonathan Brooks, president of the Voice of China and Asia Missionary Society, Todd Nettleton, director of media development for the Voice of the Martyrs USA, and Gary Russell, international director for China Harvest, weigh in on whether Christians should continue to smuggle Bibles into China.

To answer the question about smuggling Bibles into China, it's helpful to better understand how Bibles printed within China are distributed. The city of Nanjing is home to Amity Printing, the world's largest Bible-printing facility and the only legal Bible printer in China. Its mission is to print Bibles for distribution inside China. Amity also exports Bibles in many languages throughout the world.

Because Bibles printed inside China do not have an isbn number, they cannot be sold in Chinese bookstores. The only place one may legally purchase a Bible is in a registered Chinese church.

Working with these guidelines, Amity has developed 70 main distribution points that are located in China's largest population centers. From there, Bibles are funneled out to 55,000 registered churches for sale to the general public.

These are the choicest of Bibles among believers, because they bear an imprint stating they have been legally printed inside China. To own a Bible printed outside China can draw suspicion about one's outside and perhaps unauthorized contacts. We at VOCA do not smuggle Bibles into China and do not encourage others to do so. There are positive and extremely effective alternatives to smuggling that are rarely used due to outdated thinking.

Because of historical differences, which have included persecution, many underground believers in China will have nothing to do with the registered church. To be seen entering a registered church would be to betray the trust of one's closest Christian friends. In urban areas, however, this wall of division is slowly crumbling. Many believers enjoy the traditional Sunday worship of the registered church and the intimate cell-group atmosphere of the underground church during the week.

In the past, purchasing a Bible required showing an identity card. I have been told this is no longer necessary. But such a belief dies slowly, especially among the large numbers of urban believers who bear identity cards that show they have illegally migrated to larger cities, typically for work.

Leaders of the Chinese Christian Councils in many provinces recognize that even with Amity's thousands of distribution points, distribution of Bibles to China's rural communities is very limited. They also understand that for the millions of Chinese who make $125 or less a year, purchasing a Bible may mean spending over 3 percent of one's annual income. Since China's greatest church growth is among the rural poor, arrangements have been made for free distribution of Bibles to poor people with the use of funds from overseas donors.

Chinese officials are working to ensure that Bibles are supplied to all Chinese Christians who want them. The best thing we can do is partner with their work and help to increase legal distribution avenues, rather than harming Chinese Christians by smuggling in telltale Bibles that could bring their owners unwanted attention.

It still kinda gives me pause, though...If this is an officially sanctioned Bible by a Communist government, are they censoring any part of this translation or is it reaching the people who want it intact. The Chinese government is famous for censoring internet sites, for instance, that say things they are not comfortable with.

[artist4perry]

Not to be anal, but it's "one fell swoop," not foul.

'tis my accent, either way same difference, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. :lol:

Were they reading your posts? LOL The last time was more understandable thank you.

[majik]

Not to be anal, but it's "one fell swoop," not foul.

'tis my accent, either way same difference, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. :lol:

Were they reading your posts? LOL The last time was more understandable thank you.

What!! the part where the pixels on a screen claim to have an accent made it more understandable. Its pixels interacting thats all, imagination supplies the illusion that its more than that. Pixels don't have any accent, look for the cracks and see this for what it is. LOL

[artist4perry]

Who was the penis who made this into a billboard?

But I do agree about shoving religion down anyone's throats. But I should be able to pray in a public restaurant to bless the meal. Lord knows with some of the cooks out there, it needs all the help it can get!

[artist4perry]

Can I have religious envy too?

[parfait]

Can I have religious envy too?

Thou shalt not covet

[artist4perry]

Can I have religious envy too?

Thou shalt not covet

You don't have anything to covet.

[majik]

Who was the penis who made this into a billboard?

But I do agree about shoving religion down anyone's throats. But I should be able to pray in a public restaurant to bless the meal. Lord knows with some of the cooks out there, it needs all the help it can get!

How amazing pixels are, they have the ability to convey thoughts, ideas, emotions (emoticons ) and even the illusion that a "penis made this into a billboard". There is no penis thats your imagination, there is no billboard here either thats pixels creating the illusion labeled billboard.

What is your art in actual fact artist4perry ? its pixels, and these insignificant taken for granted things are infinite in what and how they communicate. I'm sure your art communicates more than words or ideas while having the power to communicate your inspiration, which is also infinite. Look at your own art and let it teach you what it is, when its said what it is you are no longer engaging with art but engaging with your IDEAS of what it is.

High definition TV has so many pixels now that its almost like looking through a window at the world and its all pixels. What are they made of......... LIGHT ! and what is light......Photons another label for infinite pixels. Are photons separate from light, are pixels separate from light? NO.

"LET THERE BE LIGHT"........ is there any separation from the ONE who said that and the One that is seeing the LIGHT. There is only THE LIGHT.

[artist4perry]

Who was the penis who made this into a billboard?

But I do agree about shoving religion down anyone's throats. But I should be able to pray in a public restaurant to bless the meal. Lord knows with some of the cooks out there, it needs all the help it can get!

How amazing pixels are, they have the ability to convey thoughts, ideas, emotions (emoticons ) and even the illusion that a "penis made this into a billboard". There is no penis thats your imagination, there is no billboard here either thats pixels creating the illusion labeled billboard.

What is your art in actual fact artist4perry ? its pixels, and these insignificant taken for granted things are infinite in what and how they communicate. I'm sure your art communicates more than words or ideas while having the power to communicate your inspiration, which is also infinite. Look at your own art and let it teach you what it is, when its said what it is you are no longer engaging with art but engaging with your IDEAS of what it is.

High definition TV has so many pixels now that its almost like looking through a window at the world and its all pixels. What are they made of......... LIGHT ! and what is light......Photons another label for infinite pixels. Are photons separate from light, are pixels separate from light? NO.

"LET THERE BE LIGHT"........ is there any separation from the ONE who said that and the One that is seeing the LIGHT. There is only THE LIGHT.

Hitting a good batch this morning I see. Anyone have a huge bag of Funions forMajik?

[majik]

Who was the penis who made this into a billboard?

But I do agree about shoving religion down anyone's throats. But I should be able to pray in a public restaurant to bless the meal. Lord knows with some of the cooks out there, it needs all the help it can get!

How amazing pixels are, they have the ability to convey thoughts, ideas, emotions (emoticons ) and even the illusion that a "penis made this into a billboard". There is no penis thats your imagination, there is no billboard here either thats pixels creating the illusion labeled billboard.

What is your art in actual fact artist4perry ? its pixels, and these insignificant taken for granted things are infinite in what and how they communicate. I'm sure your art communicates more than words or ideas while having the power to communicate your inspiration, which is also infinite. Look at your own art and let it teach you what it is, when its said what it is you are no longer engaging with art but engaging with your IDEAS of what it is.

High definition TV has so many pixels now that its almost like looking through a window at the world and its all pixels. What are they made of......... LIGHT ! and what is light......Photons another label for infinite pixels. Are photons separate from light, are pixels separate from light? NO.

"LET THERE BE LIGHT"........ is there any separation from the ONE who said that and the One that is seeing the LIGHT. There is only THE LIGHT.

Hitting a good batch this morning I see. Anyone have a huge bag of Funions forMajik?

The spirit of the carnal backsliding christian shows its ugliness again, true to form artis4perry, so predictable


For in the same way you judge others you shall be judged. (Matthew 7:2)

‘Look, you scoffers, wonder and perish, for I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you’ (Acts 13:40-41).

Consider yourself told.

[artist4perry]

Who was the penis who made this into a billboard?

But I do agree about shoving religion down anyone's throats. But I should be able to pray in a public restaurant to bless the meal. Lord knows with some of the cooks out there, it needs all the help it can get!

How amazing pixels are, they have the ability to convey thoughts, ideas, emotions (emoticons ) and even the illusion that a "penis made this into a billboard". There is no penis thats your imagination, there is no billboard here either thats pixels creating the illusion labeled billboard.

What is your art in actual fact artist4perry ? its pixels, and these insignificant taken for granted things are infinite in what and how they communicate. I'm sure your art communicates more than words or ideas while having the power to communicate your inspiration, which is also infinite. Look at your own art and let it teach you what it is, when its said what it is you are no longer engaging with art but engaging with your IDEAS of what it is.

High definition TV has so many pixels now that its almost like looking through a window at the world and its all pixels. What are they made of......... LIGHT ! and what is light......Photons another label for infinite pixels. Are photons separate from light, are pixels separate from light? NO.

"LET THERE BE LIGHT"........ is there any separation from the ONE who said that and the One that is seeing the LIGHT. There is only THE LIGHT.

Hitting a good batch this morning I see. Anyone have a huge bag of Funions forMajik?

The spirit of the carnal backsliding christian shows its ugliness again, true to form artis4perry, so predictable


For in the same way you judge others you shall be judged. (Matthew 7:2)

‘Look, you scoffers, wonder and perish, for I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you’ (Acts 13:40-41).

Consider yourself told.

I offer you snacks and you call me a backslider................ Being a bit judgmental your self there aren't you? Have a great one, thanks for the laugh.

[majik]

[majik]

Who was the penis who made this into a billboard?

But I do agree about shoving religion down anyone's throats. But I should be able to pray in a public restaurant to bless the meal. Lord knows with some of the cooks out there, it needs all the help it can get!

How amazing pixels are, they have the ability to convey thoughts, ideas, emotions (emoticons ) and even the illusion that a "penis made this into a billboard". There is no penis thats your imagination, there is no billboard here either thats pixels creating the illusion labeled billboard.

What is your art in actual fact artist4perry ? its pixels, and these insignificant taken for granted things are infinite in what and how they communicate. I'm sure your art communicates more than words or ideas while having the power to communicate your inspiration, which is also infinite. Look at your own art and let it teach you what it is, when its said what it is you are no longer engaging with art but engaging with your IDEAS of what it is.

High definition TV has so many pixels now that its almost like looking through a window at the world and its all pixels. What are they made of......... LIGHT ! and what is light......Photons another label for infinite pixels. Are photons separate from light, are pixels separate from light? NO.

"LET THERE BE LIGHT"........ is there any separation from the ONE who said that and the One that is seeing the LIGHT. There is only THE LIGHT.

Hitting a good batch this morning I see. Anyone have a huge bag of Funions forMajik?

The spirit of the carnal backsliding christian shows its ugliness again, true to form artis4perry, so predictable


For in the same way you judge others you shall be judged. (Matthew 7:2)

‘Look, you scoffers, wonder and perish, for I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you’ (Acts 13:40-41).

Consider yourself told.

I offer you snacks and you call me a backslider................ Being a bit judgmental your self there aren't you? Have a great one, thanks for the laugh.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone John 8:7

You have cast one too many stones/judgements hence judgement by the measure you set. I do not judge you, your bible does your god does.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

And I'll leave you with this final scripture to ponder.

Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Perry should sue your ass for defiling his name artist4perry haha!!!

I'm only kidding ya as I said before words only point and that also includes scripture. Its been a laugh for sure, nothing more to say pixels

[S2M]

If Kevin Bacon can use logic to talk John Lithgow into having a Senior Prom - I think we can find some common ground here.....

[majik]

If Kevin Bacon can use logic to talk John Lithgow into having a Senior Prom - I think we can find some common ground here.....

Oh no here we go again

If its biochemical, its THIS.
If its illusion, its THIS.
If its consciousness, its THIS.
If its a wonderful life, its THIS.
If its my shitty life, its THIS.
And so on........and on.....


Einstein's complex equations and theories were about what? and POINT to what.......... THIS!
Its simply this right here and now, whatever is happening, its always THIS happening, so simple its hardly ever noticed, reality the ultimate chameleon.Are you ever separate from this, no, you ARE this.

Surely THIS IS the common ground!!!

Now from the man that gave us all those complex equations and theories.........

When the answer is simple, God is speaking. (Albert Einstein)

It does not get any simpler than this....... here it is!!

[Rip Rokken]

EEK! I'm in Houston this weekend surrounded by atheists!!!

[Rip Rokken]

45 minutes away from meeting Dawkins & The Hitch!!! Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

[conversationpc]

Dawkins on infanticide...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWkJ6cZ0FY8

[S2M]

Ronnie James Dio on Religion....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIA3q62Kop0

[conversationpc]

Ronnie James Dio on Religion....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIA3q62Kop0

I love Dio as an artist and singer. However, he believed in religion. There's an interview somewhere, and I'll post if I can find it (and it's a more recent interview than this one), where he talks about participating in seances, experiencing paranormal activity, etc. So does that make Dio stupid unintelligent also?

[conversationpc]

Here you go...RJD on occult involvement dating back to the LLR&R era and also mentioning some stuff in the Dio band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-mNmQH ... re=related

[parfait]

:shock:

Dawkins on infanticide...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWkJ6cZ0FY8

Why don't you post the complete interview? This was taken completely out of context. It was an example of a morally "slippery slope". I do however think that the comments on the video you posted is a perfect example of the average religious nutjob.

[conversationpc]

:shock:

Dawkins on infanticide...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWkJ6cZ0FY8

Why don't you post the complete interview? This was taken completely out of context. It was an example of a morally "slippery slope". I do however think that the comments on the video you posted is a perfect example of the average religious nutjob.

I haven't seen the whole interview but if you post a link, I'll be happy to watch it.

[Duncan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYYNY2oKVWU

[conversationpc]

:shock:

Dawkins on infanticide...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWkJ6cZ0FY8

Why don't you post the complete interview? This was taken completely out of context. It was an example of a morally "slippery slope". I do however think that the comments on the video you posted is a perfect example of the average religious nutjob.

OK...Listened to the whole interview thanks to Duncan. The verdict? He doesn't quite go the route that infanticide is completely right (although he does say that, strictly morally, he has no problem with it, which is still very troubling to me) but neither does he really go against it, so you're also incorrect in stating that it was completely out of context.

Here's his exact quote in context:

But I do worry a bit about slippery slopes possibly a little bit more than you do. Um, there is...There are barriers which we've set up in our minds and certainly the barrier between homo sapiens and any other species is an artificial barrier in the sense that it's a kind of accident that the evolutionary intermediates happen to be extinct. Nevertheless, it exists. And natural barriers that are there can be useful for preventing slippery slopes and therefore, um, I think I can see an objection to breaching such a barrier because it would, ah...You're then in a weaker position to stop people going further. Another example might be, suppose you take the argument in favor of abortion up until the baby was one year old, say or two years old and so if a baby was one year old and, uh, turned out to have some horrible, incurable disease that meant it was going to die in agony in late in later life, what about infanticide? Um, morally, I strictly morally I can see no objection to that at all. I would be in favor of infanticide. But I think I would worry about. Um, I think I would like to at least give consideration to the person who says, "Well, where does it end?"

[conversationpc]

Here you go...RJD on occult involvement dating back to the LLR&R era and also mentioning some stuff in the Dio band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-mNmQH ... re=related

Sean...Care to comment on your hero maybe not being as intelligent as you thought he was?

[parfait]

:shock:

Dawkins on infanticide...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWkJ6cZ0FY8

Why don't you post the complete interview? This was taken completely out of context. It was an example of a morally "slippery slope". I do however think that the comments on the video you posted is a perfect example of the average religious nutjob.

OK...Listened to the whole interview thanks to Duncan. The verdict? He doesn't quite go the route that infanticide is completely right (although he does say that, strictly morally, he has no problem with it, which is still very troubling to me) but neither does he really go against it, so you're also incorrect in stating that it was completely out of context.

Here's his exact quote in context:

But I do worry a bit about slippery slopes possibly a little bit more than you do. Um, there is...There are barriers which we've set up in our minds and certainly the barrier between homo sapiens and any other species is an artificial barrier in the sense that it's a kind of accident that the evolutionary intermediates happen to be extinct. Nevertheless, it exists. And natural barriers that are there can be useful for preventing slippery slopes and therefore, um, I think I can see an objection to breaching such a barrier because it would, ah...You're then in a weaker position to stop people going further. Another example might be, suppose you take the argument in favor of abortion up until the baby was one year old, say or two years old and so if a baby was one year old and, uh, turned out to have some horrible, incurable disease that meant it was going to die in agony in late in later life, what about infanticide? Um, morally, I strictly morally I can see no objection to that at all. I would be in favor of infanticide. But I think I would worry about. Um, I think I would like to at least give consideration to the person who says, "Well, where does it end?"

Your point being what?

[Rockwriter]

Well that begs the question...are they immoral creeps for the lone reason of not being a follower, or because they think non-followers cannot possibly have any moral compass which is separate from religion?

This kinda goes along with Bill Maher's point, which is, "Do you really have to have a book to tell you not to murder and steal? You can't arrive at that on your own?" LOL.

Sterling