2011-2012 NFL Season Thread

[S2M]

Actually, Dan...and listen very carefully - as my logic does tend to school people...

What made that PI, in the eyes of the official AND Pereira was Sergio not playing the ball(read:faceguarding. Which isn't even a penalty anymore). So you claim that Sergio impeded the WR from coming back from an underthrown ball. Not a planned come backer, since Fitzpatrick was about to get pancaked by someone, and just chucked it...but, if Sergio WAS facing the ball and impeding the WR then the WR coming back to the ball and making contact with Sergio...it would have been offensive PI....so the only difference being whether or not Sergio was looking back at the ball...and since there is NO LONGER FACEGUARDING as a penalty, that wasn't PI.

Leaving out, btw, that the WR had Brown in a deathgrip bearhug....

[Saint John]

Well, folks, we've learned from Mike Pereira and from this NFL rule "a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver's opportunity to make the catch" that the receiver has the right to come back to the ball (even though S2M delivered a spirited rebuttal with his very eloquent "BS" argument).

Moreover, that "(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball" constitutes pass interfernce. Combining these two rules, or merely using just one, offers the rational-minded NFL fan to conclude that, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the refs got the Sergio Brown PI call correct.

[Saint John]

Faceguarding and "not playing the ball" are two totally different things. Sergio Brown did not play the ball and physically impeded the receiver's route back to the ball by being in the way. That is without doubt.


When Face Guarding (which is legal) Becomes Pass Interference

If the defender makes physical contact with a receiver while trying to block his view of the football before the ball arrives, that is considered pass interference. The penalty is for pass interference, not for face guarding.

Physical contact was made, while not playing the ball. Again, the NFL assumes the "route" (on an "underthrown" ball) and penalizes the defender for any contact that is made by a receiver coming back on a thrown pass. That is the fault of the defender and PI. Blame the rule as awful, but the refs made the absolute right call.

[Saint John]

Goodnight, ladies.

[S2M]

Goodnight, ladies.

Employing the "I'm losing, so I'll duck out now" excuse, huh?

And FYI, you can't be flagged for merely taking up space...BROWN did what he he was supposed to do - get between the WR and the ball...the WR initiated contact. Don't know why you can't see this.

Answer me this, dan.....would it be possible for Brown to have been facing the opposite way, without making a play on the ball( and without initiating contact)?

[YoungJRNY]

Thank God that's over. Too predictable in this one. Zero offensive line, resulting into 0 running lane results into a clinic by Mathis and Freeney, exactly what I was worried about. A complete definition of an offensive line holding back the offensive's potential and wasting talent. I'd rather see a JV team in their protecting Roethlisberger. I don't know how the guy survives. This Pittsburgh team is in trouble. A win is a win, but the Steelers got light-years to go if they want to contend. Houston's going to DESTROY us.

[mikemarrs]

Thank God that's over. Too predictable in this one. Zero offensive line, resulting into 0 running lane results into a clinic by Mathis and Freeney, exactly what I was worried about. A complete definition of an offensive line holding back the offensive's potential and wasting talent. I'd rather see a JV team in their protecting Roethlisberger. I don't know how the guy survives. This Pittsburgh team is in trouble. A win is a win, but the Steelers got light-years to go if they want to contend. Houston's going to DESTROY us.

You were right earlier when you said they would end up letting Indy hang around.Hell before the game i was predicting a blowout but damn that was a nailbiter.I'll be rooting for you to beat Houston but your right it doesn't look good right now especially for the offensive line.Ben is going to end up getting hurt if they don't do something.

[YoungJRNY]

Thank God that's over. Too predictable in this one. Zero offensive line, resulting into 0 running lane results into a clinic by Mathis and Freeney, exactly what I was worried about. A complete definition of an offensive line holding back the offensive's potential and wasting talent. I'd rather see a JV team in their protecting Roethlisberger. I don't know how the guy survives. This Pittsburgh team is in trouble. A win is a win, but the Steelers got light-years to go if they want to contend. Houston's going to DESTROY us.

You were right earlier when you said they would end up letting Indy hang around.Hell before the game i was predicting a blowout but damn that was a nailbiter.I'll be rooting for you to beat Houston but your right it doesn't look good right now especially for the offensive line.

Here's what I said sometime last week:

I would NOT, without a shadow of a doubt, be surprised to see Pittsburgh sleeping here and play down to the competition, something we are KNOWN for. We have a very pathetic offensive line and very suspect tackles on the edges, Jonathan Scott and rookie Marcus Gilbert.

This worries me, especially with Ben nursing a knee injury. If we can't get our running game going, then I see Freeney and Mathis getting atleast 4-5 sacks on a banged up Roethlisberger. When our offense isn't tight, we look B-A-D.

Too predictable. This Steelers o-line makes me want to hurl. Wonder how many MORE years we'll go and neglect this unit. Pouncey was our only progress worth a damn. Houston's defense is playing more aggressive and Shaub to Johnson is going to be an absolute rape-age (insert Roethlisberger joke here.) Besides, I had Pittsburgh losing to Houston anyhow when the schedule came out.

[mikemarrs]

Bad thing also is Houston is a bit pissed from losing that close game against New Orleans and had a huge double digit lead with twelve minutes left but let the Saints come back and win.So the defense is a bit miffed because it keeps being brought up that the Texans weren't supposed to be giving up huge amounts of yards and points this season but hell the Saints are hard to stop.Anyway we know Wade Phillips is going to unleash the Texans D on Pittsburgh's horrible offensive line so it could be a very long day for Ben and the offense.I don't know if Pittsburgh is playing great defense this year like they have in the past but Houston has a very potent offense.

[mikemarrs]

Through Sunday's games, #Titans rank 1st in NFL in total defense, allowing 261.0 yards per game.Hard for me to believe this almost because our defense was horrible last season.Rumors right now the Titans are in contact with Randy Moss about rejoining the team.He has said he will come out of retirement only to play for a winning team with a good quarterback and right now the Titans are 2-1 and Matt Hasselbeck is actually near the top in passing this season.

[conversationpc]

WISH-TV by BreakingNews

Manning out for the season. #Breaking News http://bit.ly/nb3nm7

That's not exactly breaking news, really...I don't think anyone expected him to play this year.

[mikemarrs]

WISH-TV by BreakingNews

Manning out for the season. #Breaking News http://bit.ly/nb3nm7

That's not exactly breaking news, really...I don't think anyone expected him to play this year.

Think the Colts might draft a QB if they end up picking first in the 2012 NFL draft?


Most people don't see this yet but i think if Manning does heal and is ready to play next season then the Colts have a very very tough decision to make.Andrew Luck is regarded as one of the best QB's to come out in quite some time so do the Colts try and draft him or maybe even another QB? I've read stories about Manning running the show up there in Indy and he holds a lot of power there but i think there is a potential for there to be some hard feelings especially if Peyton wants the team to draft at another position besides quarterback.He might want them to draft an offensive lineman or maybe wide receiver but would the owner of the Colts pass on an opportunity to draft a new quarterback who could bring them more success for many years.....

[Ehwmatt]

WISH-TV by BreakingNews

Manning out for the season. #Breaking News http://bit.ly/nb3nm7

That's not exactly breaking news, really...I don't think anyone expected him to play this year.

Think the Colts might draft a QB if they end up picking first in the 2012 NFL draft?


Most people don't see this yet but i think if Manning does heal and is ready to play next season then the Colts have a very very tough decision to make.Andrew Luck is regarded as one of the best QB's to come out in quite some time so do the Colts try and draft him or maybe even another QB? I've read stories about Manning running the show up there in Indy and he holds a lot of power there but i think there is a potential for there to be some hard feelings especially if Peyton wants the team to draft at another position besides quarterback.He might want them to draft an offensive lineman or maybe wide receiver but would the owner of the Colts pass on an opportunity to draft a new quarterback who could bring them more success for many years.....

I used to love Peyton, but after watching him throw his teammates under the bus too often (most recently, the SB loss vs NO), I've lost a lot of respect for him. Also, if Curtis Painter really is a lot worse than Kerry Collins at this point, maybe the rumors about Manning being too big of an egomaniac to allow Indy to retain a legitimate backup QB are true. Assuming all that is true, then maybe drafting Luck wouldn't be as easy as people seem to think it would be if the Colts have the No. 1 pick.

[S2M]

I think Matt is right...Peyton is afraid of the Brady-Bledsoe thing happening in his situation. The Colts losing plays right into Peyton's hands, or so he thinks. Irsay may just say fuck it, tank the season...and draft LUCK.

[mikemarrs]

I think Matt is right...Peyton is afraid of the Brady-Bledsoe thing happening in his situation. The Colts losing plays right into Peyton's hands, or so he thinks. Irsay may just say fuck it, tank the season...and draft LUCK.

Irsay strikes me as a very smart man but also one who plays his cards close to his vest.I personally think he is trying to tank the season and might even lose every game just to get Luck.It was either Irsay or Polian who very recently went and attended a Stanford game for that sole purpose to evaluate Andrew Luck.I also think he might just decide to cash his chips in on Manning and ship him out of there if things don't go a certain way.If we saw Montana in another uniform besides the 49ers then i think Manning just might end up or could be playing out his last days somewhere else if he doesn't want to go along with Indy drafting a new QB of the future.

[mikemarrs]

WISH-TV by BreakingNews

Manning out for the season. #Breaking News http://bit.ly/nb3nm7

That's not exactly breaking news, really...I don't think anyone expected him to play this year.

Think the Colts might draft a QB if they end up picking first in the 2012 NFL draft?


Most people don't see this yet but i think if Manning does heal and is ready to play next season then the Colts have a very very tough decision to make.Andrew Luck is regarded as one of the best QB's to come out in quite some time so do the Colts try and draft him or maybe even another QB? I've read stories about Manning running the show up there in Indy and he holds a lot of power there but i think there is a potential for there to be some hard feelings especially if Peyton wants the team to draft at another position besides quarterback.He might want them to draft an offensive lineman or maybe wide receiver but would the owner of the Colts pass on an opportunity to draft a new quarterback who could bring them more success for many years.....

I used to love Peyton, but after watching him throw his teammates under the bus too often (most recently, the SB loss vs NO), I've lost a lot of respect for him. Also, if Curtis Painter really is a lot worse than Kerry Collins at this point, maybe the rumors about Manning being too big of an egomaniac to allow Indy to retain a legitimate backup QB are true. Assuming all that is true, then maybe drafting Luck wouldn't be as easy as people seem to think it would be if the Colts have the No. 1 pick.

All these years i think thats why they had Sorgi/Painters/Orlivsky and all these other two bit no name quarterbacks because of Manning's ego and him being afraid someone might slip up and grab his spot.He almost seems to jealously guard that starting QB position there in Indy.He very well could be afraid of a Bledsoe/Brady thing happening again but there in Indy.He is putting them in a bad spot by them not having a capable backup there and now the season is done for because they didn't have a good enough backup.

[conversationpc]

All these years i think thats why they had Sorgi/Painters/Orlivsky and all these other two bit no name quarterbacks because of Manning's ego and him being afraid someone might slip up and grab his spot.He almost seems to jealously guard that starting QB position there in Indy.

I think most of the great starting QBs are that way to one degree or another.

[mikemarrs]

All these years i think thats why they had Sorgi/Painters/Orlivsky and all these other two bit no name quarterbacks because of Manning's ego and him being afraid someone might slip up and grab his spot.He almost seems to jealously guard that starting QB position there in Indy.

I think most of the great starting QBs are that way to one degree or another.

Think there is a chance in the next year or so possibly the draft that maybe Manning and the Colts brass maybe having some disagreements or things start going sour there between those involved? Got to remember Manning is also due a huge bonus here in the next year or so worth 28 million though i could be wrong.If he is still having injury concerns they might be wary of throwing more money out.

[mikemarrs]

Either way it goes there is going to be some interesting dynamics involved as far as the 2012 Indianapolis Colts and what direction the brass and ownership decides to go in.

We all know Manning has a nearly 100 million dollar contract and each year of that a hefty 20 million or so is what Manning earns.There is also the fact that if he is on the roster at a certain point a huge amount of money becomes due payable to Peyton Manning.

So if he is still not fully healed or is still showing some concerns you have to wonder if the ownership wants to go ahead and draft a new quarterback even if its Luck or some other rookie quarterback.Even if Peyton is fully healthy and ready to play would he be willing to groom a quarterback like Luck to eventually take his place? Peyton might tell them he isn't going to groom a successor.

Would they just decide to cut all ties with Manning and go all in with a player like Andrew Luck? They could decide its not worth throwing all that money to Manning not knowing what the future holds and release Manning.

Seems like a lot of unanswered questions at this stage but will be very interesting to see how it turns out.

[conversationpc]

Either way it goes there is going to be some interesting dynamics involved as far as the 2012 Indianapolis Colts and what direction the brass and ownership decides to go in.

We all know Manning has a nearly 100 million dollar contract and each year of that a hefty 20 million or so is what Manning earns.There is also the fact that if he is on the roster at a certain point a huge amount of money becomes due payable to Peyton Manning.

So if he is still not fully healed or is still showing some concerns you have to wonder if the ownership wants to go ahead and draft a new quarterback even if its Luck or some other rookie quarterback.Even if Peyton is fully healthy and ready to play would he be willing to groom a quarterback like Luck to eventually take his place? Peyton might tell them he isn't going to groom a successor.

Would they just decide to cut all ties with Manning and go all in with a player like Andrew Luck? They could decide its not worth throwing all that money to Manning not knowing what the future holds and release Manning.

Seems like a lot of unanswered questions at this stage but will be very interesting to see how it turns out.

If Manning can return healthy next year, I don't think they need to draft another QB right away. He could play another 4-5 years years at a high level. However, considering the history of the neck injury, he may not be able to return healthy. I would say go ahead and draft another QB. That being said, if he pulled a Favre and refused to groom a successor, I'd say let him leave and start making this a more well-rounded team.

[S2M]

I look at it this way...Peyton should step aside and become a QB coach (or better yet offensive coordinator). Indy 'should' tank season, draft the next best thing - letting Peyton groom Luck( if it happens to be him). His mind is still valuable to this team...which makes me mad because I've been begging the Sox to do the same thing in regards to Varitek for years. Dude just knows how to call a game. Make him the bench coach, and teach some up and coming the ropes....

[Enigma869]

A couple of points about Manning and the whole backup QB situation. First and foremost, all backup QB's are "nobodies" until given the chance to play. I have zero doubt that Brady would have eventually played in New England whether Bledsoe got hurt or not, because there was a whole of talk about Belichick working Brady into getting some snaps long before Bledsoe got pummeled my Moe Lewis. There are some backup QB's who are elevated to starters after other teams trade for them, when the reality is that these guys really are just backup QB's who looked a lot better than they are, because of the players and coaches around them. Matt Cassel and Scott Mitchell (for those of you who have been following the NFL a bit longer) come to mind.

As for Peyton and his situation...I wouldn't be too quick to bury this guy. I heard more than one person claim Brady would "never be the same) after his injury. Given the fact that he went out and won the only unananimous MVP Trophy ever awarded tells me that guys can come back from serious injuries and still play at the same level. Peyton is still a good player and will be when he returns. That said, the team around him isn't great, and at some point, the Colts really do have to start thinking about replacing Manning, because as good as he has been, he's not exactly young. The Packers brought that douche Favre's replacement onto the team and the Patriots brought Bledsoe's replacement onto the team. The Colts should follow that same path, and get their "QB of the future" onboard in the next year or two.

[Saint John]

Former Pat, Tedy Bruschi, on yesterday's textbook PI call on Sergio Brown:

"Brown's back was to the ball and he wasn't looking to the ball. David Nelson did a good job showing the official that he was making an effort for the ball. The defensive back has to show the official he is making an effort for the ball, and not just shielding the receiver. If he had turned his head, it might have been different."

[Enigma869]

Former Pat, Tedy Bruschi, on yesterday's textbook PI call on Sergio Brown:

"Brown's back was to the ball and he wasn't looking to the ball. David Nelson did a good job showing the official that he was making an effort for the ball. The defensive back has to show the official he is making an effort for the ball, and not just shielding the receiver. If he had turned his head, it might have been different."

Dude...you made your fucking point. Now, shut your pie hole about the call. The rest of us have moved on, and so should you!

[Saint John]

Classic reponse, JFB!

[Seven Wishes2]

It was a shitty call, a costly call, and the wrong call, but the Pats lost because Brady got picked off inside the Bills' 20 three separate times and simply forgot to show up in the second half.

I'm sincerely worried about their inability to stop the run and the matchup with the Raiders. We could easily be 2-2 with the most difficult part of our schedule coming up. Not good.

[AR]

Nice to see the Ravens. come back - congrats to "mikemarrs's Titans on beating them last week though

[S2M]

Former Pat, Tedy Bruschi, on yesterday's textbook PI call on Sergio Brown:

"Brown's back was to the ball and he wasn't looking to the ball. David Nelson did a good job showing the official that he was making an effort for the ball. The defensive back has to show the official he is making an effort for the ball, and not just shielding the receiver. If he had turned his head, it might have been different."

Again, turning one's head isn't playing the ball, and the WR still would have been shielded. So what would have been the call if Brown turned his head, but didn't raise his hands to try for the ball? If turning one's head is the difference between O, and D pass interference...that's a pretty lame rule, because if Brown turned his head and WR made a play on the ball - it would have been O PI. Lame call. Lame rule. Period.

Please explain, dan...what would the call have been if brown turned his head - but didn't raise his hands?

[YoungJRNY]

Former Pat, Tedy Bruschi, on yesterday's textbook PI call on Sergio Brown:

"Brown's back was to the ball and he wasn't looking to the ball. David Nelson did a good job showing the official that he was making an effort for the ball. The defensive back has to show the official he is making an effort for the ball, and not just shielding the receiver. If he had turned his head, it might have been different."

Again, turning one's head isn't playing the ball, and the WR still would have been shielded. So what would have been the call if Brown turned his head, but didn't raise his hands to try for the ball? If turning one's head is the difference between O, and D pass interference...that's a pretty lame rule, because if Brown turned his head and WR made a play on the ball - it would have been O PI. Lame call. Lame rule. Period.

Please explain, dan...what would the call have been if brown turned his head - but didn't raise his hands?

Rules are rules dude. Holy shit get over it, whether you agree with it or not the call was made and the ref needed to make the call judging by how the defender didn't play the ball. It's quite that simple. Move on, Patriots got Oakland this week.

[mikemarrs]

Nice to see the Ravens. come back - congrats to "mikemarrs's Titans on beating them last week though

Thanks!!,Titans 2-1 got the Cleveland Browns 2-1 coming up Sunday at the Dawg Pound but we just lost our best weapon WR Kenny Britt for the season so its going to be rough because Kenny was taking a lot of CJ's slack because so far CJ has rushed for 96 yards on 48 carries,lol.The main thing getting us by so far was Britt on offense along with having the number one defense in the league.Besides Matt Hasselbeck only Drew Brees and Tom Brady have thrown for more yards this season so he is passing the ball very well with a 102.2 passer rating.I think this Browns team is going to be a lot tougher this season than in years past.Holmgren is putting together a good roster there slowly but surely.