Religion & Morality

[parfait]

Duncan, as a religious person I'm still able to genuinely understand where you're coming from. Religious people have done some truly horrific things throughout history; but I would caution you against painting religion as the root of all evil. Soviet Russia sanctioned state-sponsored atheism. Destructive practices can be traced back to non-believers as well.

Well, that's not really correct. Communism is in need of atheism because the only religion the people must have is to the state. Anyhow, atheism wasn't the reason communist Russia (or China, Cambodia etc), killed and suppressed a staggering amount of people. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate communism, but atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for.

People can believe whatever they want, but they need to keep it to them self. However religion has throughout history forced its way into science and public space. They continue to spread ignorance and stupidity. Most Christians where I'm from are okay. I can even take a trip to the church at Christmas and the priest will just sing some songs and talk about being nice to people. It's when it crosses the line from talking about being a good guy, to telling people that evolution is just a theory durr dur that pisses me off to no end.

Muslims can go fuck themself though. It's nothing but poison.

[YoungJRNY]

Never to fear. Tim Tebow is here.

[Duncan]

Wow! This is truly a disturbing thread. Those anti-christians claim that christians shouldn't judge other people ("you're going to hell if you don't believe as I do") yet they choose to berate, ridicule and all-out insult those who choose to believe in Christ and the teachings of their faith. Christians shouldn't judge other people, we are taught that by none other than Christ himself. It's up to the Father to judge all at the time of the second coming of Christ (if you believe in the book of Revelation). Christians can spread the love of God and Christ without being so critical and rude. However, you need to realize that christians are taught that loving their brother/sister in Christ means telling people about Him and "the way, the truth and the life". In other words, I love you as a fellow human being, so I want you to reap the benefits of paradise at the end of time. It can be threatening to those who are either scared of it or those that don't choose to believe in it. I don't like when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door preaching their 'stuff', so I know how some of you feel about being "preached at".

Interesting point. So what you are saying is that you know that the stuff Jehovah's believe in is nonsense, , all that stuff about only 144,000 going to heaven, you absolutely understand is garbage. Of course all Jehovah's will be equally adamant that they are right and you are wrong. The same can of course be applied to all religions. So, from my viewpoint, I have 3 choices. I can believe all religions are equally valid, or 1 religion is true and the rest are wrong, or they are all garbage.

Jesus said "I make all things new" (paraphrasing) and I take that to mean that the more destructive tenets of the Old Testament have been blotted out by his life, testimony and death (and resurrection). The people who use the horrors of the Old Testament to detract from modern-day christianity really need to take that into consideration, IMO. I find comfort in believing that there is a world beyond this life where I will be reunited with loved ones that have gone before me. If that makes me crazy to some people, then I'm fine with that.

Well, this is where we come back to the big book of mulitple choice that is the bible and how you can find something to substantiate almost any position. Here is a passge that can be read to mean that all the old testament stuff stands:

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of these commandments and teached men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For i tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

There have absolutely been many atrocities committed by people in the name of christianity, but there have been SO many more loving, caring, wonderful things done as well. Missionaries are a great example of that - going to desolate places in christian love not only to spread the word of Christ but to build churches, schools, hospitals... and to man them. How many athiests/non-believers have gone into war- and poverty-ravaged lands to spread their message? Can't imagine too many.

That is pretty ignorant. Never heard of Oxfam or Doctors Without Borders to give two examples? These people provide help for purely humanitarian reasons.

The bottom line is this: I could be wrong, but what if I'm right??? (thanks again Madplash)

Sounds like pascal's wager to me. The bottom line is this. Do you care whether your beliefs are true?

[conversationpc]

Here you go...RJD on occult involvement dating back to the LLR&R era and also mentioning some stuff in the Dio band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-mNmQH ... re=related

Sean, I still haven't heard you comment on this. Thoughts please!

[S2M]

Here you go...RJD on occult involvement dating back to the LLR&R era and also mentioning some stuff in the Dio band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-mNmQH ... re=related

Sean, I still haven't heard you comment on this. Thoughts please!

There is nothing to answer....I'm not religious, and I've used a Ouija board. Non-issue.

[conversationpc]

Here you go...RJD on occult involvement dating back to the LLR&R era and also mentioning some stuff in the Dio band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-mNmQH ... re=related

Sean, I still haven't heard you comment on this. Thoughts please!

There is nothing to answer....I'm not religious, and I've used a Ouija board. Non-issue.

Yeah but your hero that you thought was SOOOOOOOO intelligent was a believer in the spiritual. He wasn't religious in a Christian sense but he was religious in an occult sense.

[artist4perry]

Donna, you made some great points.

I just wanted to add I have not shoved my religious beliefs down anyone's throats here. I have never declared anyone is going to hell. I have shared my thoughts with you guys and have joked around but in all seriousness I have no trouble with your not thinking like me.


I have been told by my believing I am a child abuser, delusional, crazy, and lacking in intelligence. Who has been more threatening here guys? Seriously can you not be O.K. just allowing peaceful people to believe in God or do you have to convert them to your way of thinking?

I am a New Testament Christian and I don't believe in violence to anyone. I don't believe in telling folks they are going to hell as a threat so they will convert. God is the only judge and I will let him decide on these matters not me.

I am quite happy being who I am, and I feel no need to force you to think anyway you do not want to think.

I've never called you crazy.

No you haven't. You just imply it.

[artist4perry]

Duncan when Christ was crucified on the cross the old was done away with. And there are things you are not understanding about the Old Testament that you will probably never understand because you hunt and pick out certain scriptures with no clear understanding at all of why things happened the way they did.

As far as you not buying it, that is a choice. No problem. That is what free choice is all about.

You want to use the bad that people have done in the name of God to condemn all religious teachings and believers. You again pick and hunt to find evil things people have said and done in the name of God. Clearly not understanding that people do bad things for a great number of reasons, not just using the guise, and I mean the Guise of religion to do evil things. Jesus never taught to harm anyone. If anything have you ever heard the term turn the other cheek?

You go so out of your way to attack religion you never see the good anyone is trying to show you. Nor do you see that not everyone who believes in God is a bad person, nor do they use religion to do any harm at all. You are so convinced that all religion is bad you will never see the good if it is done to you even directly. You just have to go at it.

I personally do not care what you or anyone thinks of my faith. I am secure with myself as a person and with my beliefs.

[Gideon]

Duncan, as a religious person I'm still able to genuinely understand where you're coming from. Religious people have done some truly horrific things throughout history; but I would caution you against painting religion as the root of all evil. Soviet Russia sanctioned state-sponsored atheism. Destructive practices can be traced back to non-believers as well.

Well, that's not really correct. Communism is in need of atheism because the only religion the people must have is to the state. Anyhow, atheism wasn't the reason communist Russia (or China, Cambodia etc), killed and suppressed a staggering amount of people. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate communism, but atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for.

I didn't mean to imply that it was; I was simply using Soviet Russia as an example of an atheist state which had a body count substantially higher than any single "religious" state in modern times with the overall point being that you can find stupidity, ignorance, bigotry, and a host of other evil concepts in places that aren't guided by religion as well.

[Duncan]

Duncan when Christ was crucified on the cross the old was done away with.

What do you mean by the old? The Old Testament? Weren't the 10 commandments in the Old Testament?

And there are things you are not understanding about the Old Testament that you will probably never understand because you hunt and pick out certain scriptures with no clear understanding at all of why things happened the way they did.

Which scriptures quoted are you referring to?

You want to use the bad that people have done in the name of God to condemn all religious teachings and believers. You again pick and hunt to find evil things people have said and done in the name of God. Clearly not understanding that people do bad things for a great number of reasons, not just using the guise, and I mean the Guise of religion to do evil things. Jesus never taught to harm anyone. If anything have you ever heard the term turn the other cheek?

You go so out of your way to attack religion you never see the good anyone is trying to show you. Nor do you see that not everyone who believes in God is a bad person, nor do they use religion to do any harm at all. You are so convinced that all religion is bad you will never see the good if it is done to you even directly. You just have to go at it.

That is simply not true. I believe religion is a bad thing. That is not the same thing as saying that all people who are religous are bad or that their religion cannot inspire them to do good things. However, when you balance all the bad with the good, the bad far outweighs the good. If you then consider that it does not require religion to do any of the good stuff, the only conclusion that can be reached is that religion is pointless, and that is before you add in the fact that there is no evidence to support the central tenet i.e. the belief in a supernatural god.

I personally do not care what you or anyone thinks of my faith. I am secure with myself as a person and with my beliefs.

You keep trotting out this line. It's almost as if you've been brainwashed...

[parfait]

Duncan, as a religious person I'm still able to genuinely understand where you're coming from. Religious people have done some truly horrific things throughout history; but I would caution you against painting religion as the root of all evil. Soviet Russia sanctioned state-sponsored atheism. Destructive practices can be traced back to non-believers as well.

Well, that's not really correct. Communism is in need of atheism because the only religion the people must have is to the state. Anyhow, atheism wasn't the reason communist Russia (or China, Cambodia etc), killed and suppressed a staggering amount of people. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate communism, but atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for.

I didn't mean to imply that it was; I was simply using Soviet Russia as an example of an atheist state which had a body count substantially higher than any single "religious" state in modern times with the overall point being that you can find stupidity, ignorance, bigotry, and a host of other evil concepts in places that aren't guided by religion as well.

So you're implying that atheism was behind the atrocities of communism, which is wasn't? Uh.

Ok.

[Duncan]

Duncan, as a religious person I'm still able to genuinely understand where you're coming from. Religious people have done some truly horrific things throughout history; but I would caution you against painting religion as the root of all evil. Soviet Russia sanctioned state-sponsored atheism. Destructive practices can be traced back to non-believers as well.

Well, that's not really correct. Communism is in need of atheism because the only religion the people must have is to the state. Anyhow, atheism wasn't the reason communist Russia (or China, Cambodia etc), killed and suppressed a staggering amount of people. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate communism, but atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for.

I didn't mean to imply that it was; I was simply using Soviet Russia as an example of an atheist state which had a body count substantially higher than any single "religious" state in modern times with the overall point being that you can find stupidity, ignorance, bigotry, and a host of other evil concepts in places that aren't guided by religion as well.

I don't think anyone has argued to the contrary.

[Duncan]

Duncan, as a religious person I'm still able to genuinely understand where you're coming from. Religious people have done some truly horrific things throughout history; but I would caution you against painting religion as the root of all evil. Soviet Russia sanctioned state-sponsored atheism. Destructive practices can be traced back to non-believers as well.

Well, that's not really correct. Communism is in need of atheism because the only religion the people must have is to the state. Anyhow, atheism wasn't the reason communist Russia (or China, Cambodia etc), killed and suppressed a staggering amount of people. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate communism, but atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for.

I didn't mean to imply that it was; I was simply using Soviet Russia as an example of an atheist state which had a body count substantially higher than any single "religious" state in modern times with the overall point being that you can find stupidity, ignorance, bigotry, and a host of other evil concepts in places that aren't guided by religion as well.

So you're implying that atheism was behind the atrocities of communism, which is wasn't? Uh.

Ok.

No, I don't think Gideon is saying that. All he is saying is that non religous people can do bad stuff too.

[verslibre]

And now for a quick word from one of our sponsors.


Parfait and Duncan on a typical Sunday midafternoon.

[artist4perry]

Duncan when Christ was crucified on the cross the old was done away with.

What do you mean by the old? The Old Testament? Weren't the 10 commandments in the Old Testament?

And there are things you are not understanding about the Old Testament that you will probably never understand because you hunt and pick out certain scriptures with no clear understanding at all of why things happened the way they did.

Which scriptures quoted are you referring to?

You want to use the bad that people have done in the name of God to condemn all religious teachings and believers. You again pick and hunt to find evil things people have said and done in the name of God. Clearly not understanding that people do bad things for a great number of reasons, not just using the guise, and I mean the Guise of religion to do evil things. Jesus never taught to harm anyone. If anything have you ever heard the term turn the other cheek?

You go so out of your way to attack religion you never see the good anyone is trying to show you. Nor do you see that not everyone who believes in God is a bad person, nor do they use religion to do any harm at all. You are so convinced that all religion is bad you will never see the good if it is done to you even directly. You just have to go at it.

That is simply not true. I believe religion is a bad thing. That is not the same thing as saying that all people who are religous are bad or that their religion cannot inspire them to do good things. However, when you balance all the bad with the good, the bad far outweighs the good. If you then consider that it does not require religion to do any of the good stuff, the only conclusion that can be reached is that religion is pointless, and that is before you add in the fact that there is no evidence to support the central tenet i.e. the belief in a supernatural god.

I personally do not care what you or anyone thinks of my faith. I am secure with myself as a person and with my beliefs.

You keep trotting out this line. It's almost as if you've been brainwashed...

The bad is done by bad people, not good people. And as you said religion can inspire people to do good things. It can be a comfort, hope, and inspiration to many people. I cannot expect you to understand that. Regardless of your take on it, many people enjoy their faith and do no harm to anyone. I cannot prove their is a God anymore than you can prove there is no God. So a stalemate on that one. It is up to what you want to believe.

I don't get why you have to throw in the brainwashed thing unless you just need to get your jab in for good measure. I was just stating that regardless of your take, I am going to be just who I am on the whole thing. Your welcome to disagree.

Seriously Duncan, you, Parfait, and S2M can disagree with me all you want, but at the end of the day it all just boils down to what you want to do with your life. Your choice about the whole thing is a personal one. I have no actual beef with you guys, but I just cannot agree with you that religion is all bad. I think you need to step back and get to know folks who are just nice people who happen to believe in God. I am not saying atheists are not good people too, before you misunderstand what I am saying. For some people faith is a strengthening thing.

You find your strength in whatever you finds helps you through bad times. It is all good.

[Gideon]

Duncan, as a religious person I'm still able to genuinely understand where you're coming from. Religious people have done some truly horrific things throughout history; but I would caution you against painting religion as the root of all evil. Soviet Russia sanctioned state-sponsored atheism. Destructive practices can be traced back to non-believers as well.

Well, that's not really correct. Communism is in need of atheism because the only religion the people must have is to the state. Anyhow, atheism wasn't the reason communist Russia (or China, Cambodia etc), killed and suppressed a staggering amount of people. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate communism, but atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for.

I didn't mean to imply that it was; I was simply using Soviet Russia as an example of an atheist state which had a body count substantially higher than any single "religious" state in modern times with the overall point being that you can find stupidity, ignorance, bigotry, and a host of other evil concepts in places that aren't guided by religion as well.

So you're implying that atheism was behind the atrocities of communism, which is wasn't? Uh.

Ok.

Uh, no.

No, I don't think Gideon is saying that. All he is saying is that non religous people can do bad stuff too.

Thank you.

[artist4perry]

And now for a quick word from one of our sponsors.


Parfait and Duncan on a typical Sunday midafternoon.

I don't think you need to go this far. They may disagree with you but in all fairness they did not go there.

[Gideon]

Parfait and Duncan strike me as connoisseurs of hot women and while the masks obscure their faces, the rest doesn't seem half bad. I don't think they'll find this insulting.

[verslibre]

I don't think you need to go this far. They may disagree with you but in all fairness they did not go there.

A little humor never hurts bullies.

[artist4perry]

Parfait and Duncan strike me as connoisseurs of hot women and while the masks obscure their faces, the rest doesn't seem half bad. I don't think they'll find this insulting.

Well then pardon me..............

[parfait]

Parfait and Duncan strike me as connoisseurs of hot women and while the masks obscure their faces, the rest doesn't seem half bad. I don't think they'll find this insulting.

Fuck you. Fuck all of you!

Seriously though. I've lost count on how many times I've seen some patient just getting out of surgery and praising God (mostly the islamic one, since there's a shitload of them over here), and I've just wanted to break them down on all four and rape some sense into their thick skull; God didn't remove your gall bladder - the surgeon did. But I don't. Mostly because the nurses has given me a lot of grief about being too direct with the patients, but also because I think people should be able to believe whatever the fuck they want, no matter how retarded it may seem. It's amusing to discuss religion though.

[verslibre]

I've just wanted to break them down on all four and rape some sense into their thick skull

Sir, please do not air out your fantasies here. Seek out the proper forums elsewhere.

[artist4perry]

Parfait and Duncan strike me as connoisseurs of hot women and while the masks obscure their faces, the rest doesn't seem half bad. I don't think they'll find this insulting.

Fuck you. Fuck all of you!

Seriously though. I've lost count on how many times I've seen some patient just getting out of surgery and praising God (mostly the islamic one, since there's a shitload of them over here), and I've just wanted to break them down on all four and rape some sense into their thick skull; God didn't remove your gall bladder - the surgeon did. But I don't. Mostly because the nurses has given me a lot of grief about being too direct with the patients, but also because I think people should be able to believe whatever the fuck they want, no matter how retarded it may seem. It's amusing to discuss religion though.

Parfait regardless of what you really think the nurses are right. Sometimes even if you don't agree or understand, people need to thank God, the doctor should be thanked as well, and do whatever it takes to get them through the situation. Sometimes faith is helpful to healing. I am sure you don't understand people's need for it, but if it gets a family through a crisis, gives your patient the will to live, etc......just let it be.

I do thank you for saying you think people should be able to believe what they want. That is really what it boils down to.
I have no problem with anyone not believing. I can understand where you come from more than you know.

By the way, becoming a doctor is an honorable profession. You also have to develop empathy for your patients as people. I am sure you will do fine.

[S2M]

Here's a HUGE contradiction in the world of religion...and Parfait, as a medical student should be used to this....

Religious people always clamoring about, 'I guess it was his time to go'. Well, if that is really the case, how come I don't see the devout constantly refusing life-saving procedures? If it TRULY is god taking a person whose time is up - they should refuse the treatment. Why 'play' god?

Which begs the question...is it 'god who makes a person's liver fail, or 'god' who keeps him alive for another 4 months - then decides to make the treatment not work anymore...and take him then? Can you please educate me?


You can't cherry-pick "god's" involvement....either he gives us freewill - and is an absentee landlord......or he intervenes in everything. Because if he practices selective intervention - that's no 'god' I'd like to be associated with....

[artist4perry]

Here's a HUGE contradiction in the world of religion...and Parfait, as a medical student should be used to this....

Religious people always clamoring about, 'I guess it was his time to go'. Well, if that is really the case, how come I don't see the devout constantly refusing life-saving procedures? If it TRULY is god taking a person whose time is up - they should refuse the treatment. Why 'play' god?

I don't look at it as "his time to go". And I am all for life saving procedures. God may be sending the doctor to help you......refusing help would be stupid. That would be like drowning and God sends a boat to save you and you say nah! God will save me another way.

We all will die, and we never know the time, but to refuse help because it would be God's will is supposing to know the mind of God is it not? Maybe God wanted you to use your brain he gave you to get medical help!

But I know people who think that way too. Go figure!

[S2M]

So let me get this straight....'god' lets your liver fail....then sends a doctor to 'fix' it.....is 'god' part of Obama's job-stimulus package?

[artist4perry]

So let me get this straight....'god' lets your liver fail....then sends a doctor to 'fix' it.....is 'god' part of Obama's job-stimulus package?

Sugar if our bodies never deteriorated we would never die. You are not designed to live forever. God does not attack your liver. Your born with the genetics your born with, and a great deal we do to hurt ourselves.


Obama is Satan you know that right?

[Rick]

So let me get this straight....'god' lets your liver fail....then sends a doctor to 'fix' it.....is 'god' part of Obama's job-stimulus package?

Sugar if our bodies never deteriorated we would never die. You are not designed to live forever. God does not attack your liver. Your born with the genetics your born with, and a great deal we do to hurt ourselves.


Obama is Satan you know that right?

Have you read this? Kind of interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4003063.stm

[artist4perry]

So let me get this straight....'god' lets your liver fail....then sends a doctor to 'fix' it.....is 'god' part of Obama's job-stimulus package?

Sugar if our bodies never deteriorated we would never die. You are not designed to live forever. God does not attack your liver. Your born with the genetics your born with, and a great deal we do to hurt ourselves.


Obama is Satan you know that right?

Have you read this? Kind of interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4003063.stm

Right.......it will never happen. How will we pay for the baby boomers if this happens!

[Rick]

So let me get this straight....'god' lets your liver fail....then sends a doctor to 'fix' it.....is 'god' part of Obama's job-stimulus package?

Sugar if our bodies never deteriorated we would never die. You are not designed to live forever. God does not attack your liver. Your born with the genetics your born with, and a great deal we do to hurt ourselves.


Obama is Satan you know that right?

Have you read this? Kind of interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4003063.stm

Right.......it will never happen. How will we pay for the baby boomers if this happens!

You have read it though Ginger. This guy says they're on the brink of curing aging. There are other articles that exclaim the same. Methuselah did it!