WHO's primarily in charge of setlist decisions?

[jrnyjetster]

You think it's Jon Cain? Neal? Do all the guys sit down, have a meeting and take a vote? Does management dictate to them what songs they have to play? It's my opinion, as well of many of us diehards will agree I'm sure, that Journey has clearly missed the mark in promoting Eclipse on the U.S. leg of the tour. There are a few really good songs on that CD that should have been included in the setlists and were totally ignored. Very disappointing and I rack my brain trying to figure out WHY? Did they just blow off Eclipse? I don't get it. If you don't have enough confidence in your new material, then why bother wasting the time and money to produce and record it?

[Arkansas]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

[The_Noble_Cause]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

From what I read, it sounds like the original plan was to put out an EP of new material - same as Revelation, which was originally supposed to have just 4 or 5 new tracks, plus all the classic hits. Now that Perry has put out GH 2, maybe Schon and Cain should re-record some more hits, in order to get back in Walmart's good graces.

[Rick]

You think it's Jon Cain? Neal? Do all the guys sit down, have a meeting and take a vote? Does management dictate to them what songs they have to play? It's my opinion, as well of many of us diehards will agree I'm sure, that Journey has clearly missed the mark in promoting Eclipse on the U.S. leg of the tour. There are a few really good songs on that CD that should have been included in the setlists and were totally ignored. Very disappointing and I rack my brain trying to figure out WHY? Did they just blow off Eclipse? I don't get it. If you don't have enough confidence in your new material, then why bother wasting the time and money to produce and record it?

I think management washed it's hands of this record before it hit the shelves. Neal wanted to do his record, his way and that's what he did. I love a lot of the songs on it, but the record wasn't created to get any radio play. Not with songs clocking in at 6 minutes. And while not much of their new stuff gets radio play, you have to make a record geared toward that, just in case. You never know what's going to be a hit. But they didn't give it that chance in the first place, I'm sure management didn't want to take a chance, spending money to promote something that wasn't geared toward the mainstream market.

[Rockindeano]

It's my opinion, as well of many of us diehards will agree I'm sure, that Journey has clearly missed the mark in promoting Eclipse on the U.S. leg of the tour.

Judging by the absolutely shitty sales numbers, it's pretty clear concert going fans wanted nothing from this record.

There are a few really good songs on that CD that should have been included in the setlists and were totally ignored.

It has sold 70,000 records. That's pathetic. I heard this turd of a record recently, and I disagree with you- there are NO good songs on it. Schon's vision of what is going to be good and what isn't, and also what will sell and what will not sell,--his glasses are fogged up.

I cannot stand the fact they play the SAME shit every show. They are a better band than that. I know I harp on Bruce a lot, but for this one argument, let's see the differences. I saw him back to back nights 2 years ago. I saw 46 different songs in two nights. To me, that was the perfect gift to a good fan, especially those that may go to multiple night shows or travel to see the band. There are other bands out there too I am sure who play ecclectic set lists. Like I said, Journey is good enough to remember older songs. They are good enough to play those older songs(ok, Ross sucks but he could learn them)....my point here is when I saw Springsteen, I saw 64 songs in 2 nights, of which 46 were different. If you go see Journey 2 nights, you will only hear the 19 songs...the same songs you heard the night before!

Ok, flame away Journey diehards...or just button the fuck up already.

[hoagiepete]

There are some decent songs on Eclipse, but COH is a terrible concert song. Drags and goes nowhere. Actually one of my least favorites on the CD.

[jestor92]

Eclipse blows, that's why it didn't sell. It's not the 'lack of promotion' it's just a shitty record.

[Yoda]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

From what I read, it sounds like the original plan was to put out an EP of new material - same as Revelation, which was originally supposed to have just 4 or 5 new tracks, plus all the classic hits. Now that Perry has put out GH 2, maybe Schon and Cain should re-record some more hits, in order to get back in Walmart's good graces.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Walmart is going to go down that road with Journey again.

[Don]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

From what I read, it sounds like the original plan was to put out an EP of new material - same as Revelation, which was originally supposed to have just 4 or 5 new tracks, plus all the classic hits. Now that Perry has put out GH 2, maybe Schon and Cain should re-record some more hits, in order to get back in Walmart's good graces.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Walmart is going to go down that road with Journey again.

Neal said there probably won't be an album next year so we are talking 2013. Wal-Mart has already shuttered its mp3 service and its regular music sales market share has been decreasing steadily over the last two years and now they face another competitor with Google music hitting the scene.

[Rick]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

From what I read, it sounds like the original plan was to put out an EP of new material - same as Revelation, which was originally supposed to have just 4 or 5 new tracks, plus all the classic hits. Now that Perry has put out GH 2, maybe Schon and Cain should re-record some more hits, in order to get back in Walmart's good graces.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Walmart is going to go down that road with Journey again.

Neal said there probably won't be an album next year so we are talking 2013. Wal-Mart has already shuttered its mp3 service and its regular music sales market share has been decreasing steadily over the last two years and now they face another competitor with Google music hitting the scene.

iTunes needs to be it's own record label.

[Don]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

From what I read, it sounds like the original plan was to put out an EP of new material - same as Revelation, which was originally supposed to have just 4 or 5 new tracks, plus all the classic hits. Now that Perry has put out GH 2, maybe Schon and Cain should re-record some more hits, in order to get back in Walmart's good graces.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Walmart is going to go down that road with Journey again.

Neal said there probably won't be an album next year so we are talking 2013. Wal-Mart has already shuttered its mp3 service and its regular music sales market share has been decreasing steadily over the last two years and now they face another competitor with Google music hitting the scene.

iTunes needs to be it's own record label.

There have been a few high profile musicians who have done exclusives with iTunes over the last year. I don't think Journey is a big enough act to do that and have major success though. The band has never embraced the digital market like other acts. As we saw when Eclipse was released, they didn't even promote Amazon or iTunes a as sales outlets, instead sticking to the "Available only at Wal-Mart" cry during all their media appearances and even at their shows.

[jrnyjetster]

It has sold 70,000 records. That's pathetic. I heard this turd of a record recently, and I disagree with you- there are NO good songs on it.

If those numbers are indeed correct, you're right, that is pathetic. Are those just U.S. sales figures? Because I read that Eclipse had fairly decent numers in Europe. I like the harder progressive edge on this CD and there are some excellent songs on it. I'm sorry you can't appreciate that, Deano. I'd be willing to bet you probably listened to Eclipse maybe twice and even then, not all the way through. That's not enough to form a solid credible opinion. Tell me something Dean, do you think Journey should have stuck with the same old formula? Mostly mid tempo songs and sappy ballads? You think if they had done an album with Jeff, it wouldn't have had a harder edge to it?

[The_Noble_Cause]

It has sold 70,000 records. That's pathetic. I heard this turd of a record recently, and I disagree with you- there are NO good songs on it.

Didn't you give the half-assed "Generations" an A+?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

From what I read, it sounds like the original plan was to put out an EP of new material - same as Revelation, which was originally supposed to have just 4 or 5 new tracks, plus all the classic hits. Now that Perry has put out GH 2, maybe Schon and Cain should re-record some more hits, in order to get back in Walmart's good graces.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Walmart is going to go down that road with Journey again.

I don't think Wmart is getting behind any classic dinosaur rock act any time soon.

[The_Noble_Cause]

"Eclipse" is a monster Journey record. Not a bad track on it. "She's A Mystery" could easily be left over from the Rolie-era, while "Someone" and "Anything is Possible" is classic Cain-era with some modern touches. So much diversity. Can't see how any Journey fan wouldn't be happy with the final product.

[jrnyjetster]

"Eclipse" is a monster Journey record. Not a bad track on it. "She's A Mystery" could easily be left over from the Rolie-era, while "Someone" and "Anything is Possible" is classic Cain-era with some modern touches. So much diversity. Can't see how any Journey fan wouldn't be happy with the final product.

Not too crazy about Tantra or the instrumental(track 12). Other than that, Eclipse is the Journey CD I've been waiting for since DEPARTURE.

[Rick]

"Eclipse" is a monster Journey record. Not a bad track on it. "She's A Mystery" could easily be left over from the Rolie-era, while "Someone" and "Anything is Possible" is classic Cain-era with some modern touches. So much diversity. Can't see how any Journey fan wouldn't be happy with the final product.

I've been listening to Eclipse today, as we've been moving. God I hate moving. But you're right. My favorite songs now, as they seem to change, are City of Hope, Chain of Love, Tantra, Resonate, She's a Mystery, Human Feel, Ritual and To Whom It May Concern. Chain of Love being my absolute favorite. I crank that one as loud as possible. Neal's guitar work in that one is bad ass.

[Andrew]

Eclipse blows, that's why it didn't sell. It's not the 'lack of promotion' it's just a shitty record.

I just don't get some of you people. How can anyone say Eclipse blows? It isn't that far away from Revelation FFS.

[slucero]

its a gloomy record Andrew... sonically good... musically not.

[The_Noble_Cause]

its a gloomy record Andrew....

What does this even mean? Eclipse is Journey with more guitar driven songs and less keys...it's NOT death metal.

[slucero]

its a gloomy record Andrew....

What does this even mean? Eclipse is Journey with more guitar driven songs and less keys...it's NOT death metal.

gloom·y/ˈglo͞omē/
Adjective:

1. Dark or poorly lit, esp. so as to appear depressing.

[The_Noble_Cause]

its a gloomy record Andrew....

What does this even mean? Eclipse is Journey with more guitar driven songs and less keys...it's NOT death metal.

gloom·y/ˈglo͞omē/
Adjective:

1. Dark or poorly lit, esp. so as to appear depressing.

Plenty of upbeat, uptempo material found on Eclipse. In case you didn't notice, the lead single (which admittedly sux) is called "City of HOPE." "Anything is Possible", "Someone", "Ritual"...these are all AOR summertime toe tappers. Eclipse isn't depressing industrial rock like Nine Inch Nails.

[slucero]

its a gloomy record Andrew....

What does this even mean? Eclipse is Journey with more guitar driven songs and less keys...it's NOT death metal.

gloom·y/ˈglo͞omē/
Adjective:

1. Dark or poorly lit, esp. so as to appear depressing.

Plenty of upbeat, uptempo material found on Eclipse. In case you didn't notice, the lead single (which admittedly sux) is called "City of HOPE." "Anything is Possible", "Someone", "Ritual"...these are all AOR summertime toe tappers. Eclipse isn't depressing industrial rock like Nine Inch Nails.

I have the album... even reviewed it on here... IMO, for Journey music it's musically plodding and unfocused.

So far you've made a reference to death metal and industrial rock... The only comparison I've ever made is that it sounds like Journey trying to be Queensryche... which I said when I reviewed and posted in the review thread.

My opinion is based on Journey being Journey... not something else...

[The_Noble_Cause]

I have the album... even reviewed it on here... for Journey music it's musically plodding and unfocused.

So far you've made a reference to death metal and industrial rock... I've made no such comparison as I believe there is none. My opinion is based on Journey being Journey... not something else...

You're right. You said "gloomy" and then quickly hid behind a Funk & Wagnalls defintion. Lyrically and thematically, Eclipse is more focused than any other Journey album. And even then, the linear concept behind the album is not so heavy-handed as to detract from the music. As for "Journey being Journey"....Eclipse has moments that sound reminiscent of every era (Rolie-Perry) and even manages to break some new ground of its own. No small feat.

[Don]

It has sold 70,000 records. That's pathetic. I heard this turd of a record recently, and I disagree with you- there are NO good songs on it.

If those numbers are indeed correct, you're right, that is pathetic. Are those just U.S. sales figures? Because I read that Eclipse had fairly decent numers in Europe. I like the harder progressive edge on this CD and there are some excellent songs on it. I'm sorry you can't appreciate that, Deano. I'd be willing to bet you probably listened to Eclipse maybe twice and even then, not all the way through. That's not enough to form a solid credible opinion. Tell me something Dean, do you think Journey should have stuck with the same old formula? Mostly mid tempo songs and sappy ballads? You think if they had done an album with Jeff, it wouldn't have had a harder edge to it?

Around 5,000 copies sold in the UK, 5,000 in Japan and about 3,000 in the rest of Europe. In Latin America and the Philippines, the record was D.O.A.

[slucero]

I have the album... even reviewed it on here... for Journey music it's musically plodding and unfocused.

So far you've made a reference to death metal and industrial rock... I've made no such comparison as I believe there is none. My opinion is based on Journey being Journey... not something else...

You're right. You said "gloomy" and then quickly hid behind a Funk & Wagnalls defintion. Lyrically and thematically, Eclipse is more focused than any other Journey album. And even then, the linear concept behind the album is not so heavy-handed as to detract from the music. As for "Journey being Journey"....Eclipse has moments that sound reminiscent of every era (Rolie-Perry) and even manages to break some new ground of its own. No small feat.

Not hiding.. just answering your question, which was: "What does this even mean?"

Its your opinion.. yer entitled to it.

My opinion (which I'm entitled to) is that Eclipse is musically plodding, and lyrically boring.

[jrnyjetster]

Around 5,000 copies sold in the UK, 5,000 in Japan and about 3,000 in the rest of Europe. In Latin America and the Philippines, the record was D.O.A.

Where did you get those numbers from Don? Unless you can provide the proof, I'm going to call this bullshit.

[portland]

Like I said in a post several months ago - It was never meant to sell. They had an option on a WM deal, and Schon abused it by putting on his own little wank-fest. Game over. Let's see what happens mid-way next year...or so...


later~

From what I read, it sounds like the original plan was to put out an EP of new material - same as Revelation, which was originally supposed to have just 4 or 5 new tracks, plus all the classic hits. Now that Perry has put out GH 2, maybe Schon and Cain should re-record some more hits, in order to get back in Walmart's good graces.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Walmart is going to go down that road with Journey again.

Neal said there probably won't be an album next year so we are talking 2013. Wal-Mart has already shuttered its mp3 service and its regular music sales market share has been decreasing steadily over the last two years and now they face another competitor with Google music hitting the scene.

He is going to be busy with his new reality show I am sure....this ought to be good!

[xflajrnylvr]

It's my opinion, as well of many of us diehards will agree I'm sure, that Journey has clearly missed the mark in promoting Eclipse on the U.S. leg of the tour.

Judging by the absolutely shitty sales numbers, it's pretty clear concert going fans wanted nothing from this record.

There are a few really good songs on that CD that should have been included in the setlists and were totally ignored.

It has sold 70,000 records. That's pathetic. I heard this turd of a record recently, and I disagree with you- there are NO good songs on it. Schon's vision of what is going to be good and what isn't, and also what will sell and what will not sell,--his glasses are fogged up.

I cannot stand the fact they play the SAME shit every show. They are a better band than that. I know I harp on Bruce a lot, but for this one argument, let's see the differences. I saw him back to back nights 2 years ago. I saw 46 different songs in two nights. To me, that was the perfect gift to a good fan, especially those that may go to multiple night shows or travel to see the band. There are other bands out there too I am sure who play ecclectic set lists. Like I said, Journey is good enough to remember older songs. They are good enough to play those older songs(ok, Ross sucks but he could learn them)....my point here is when I saw Springsteen, I saw 64 songs in 2 nights, of which 46 were different. If you go see Journey 2 nights, you will only hear the 19 songs...the same songs you heard the night before!

Ok, flame away Journey diehards...or just button the fuck up already.

Well for one time I agree with Deano here

[jestor92]

Eclipse blows, that's why it didn't sell. It's not the 'lack of promotion' it's just a shitty record.

I just don't get some of you people. How can anyone say Eclipse blows? It isn't that far away from Revelation FFS.

Don't worry I think Revelation is even worse than Eclipse.

The last Journey cd I thought was great was Arrival. Generations had some alright moments, but a lot of filler that brought it down.