2011-2012 NFL Season Thread

[conversationpc]

Peyton needs another ring before I'm prepared to put him in the discussion of best of all time.

Sorry dude...Peyton isn't the best of all time and never will be. I'm a Peyton Manning fan and earlier in his career, I absolutely thought he might be the best ever. That said, it's impossible to overlook the fact that the guy has simply puked on his cleats way too many times, in big games. Hell, his career playoff record is 9-10, which is AWFUL for a QB of his stature! Great player, but I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 5 of all time. If his brother wins this weekend, Eli will move ahead of Peyton when it comes to being a big game QB. I actually feel badly for Peyton fans. Given the matchup this weekend, Peyton fans lose regardless of which team wins. If Brady wins, his legacy grows to a ridiculous level. If Eli wins, it won't be long until you hear many saying that Peyton isn't even the best QB in his own family!

Peyton's been awful in the last four playoff games he's played in. Prior to that, even in the losses, he played pretty well. Regardless, I don't place as much emphasis on Super Bowl wins in determining great QBs as some do. Hell, Dan Marino was a far better QB than a lot of Super Bowl winning QBs and the guy never even came close to sniffing a win in the big one.

[conversationpc]

It's kinda interesting when you compare postseason stats between Brady and Manning...

Both with 18 postseason games...
Brady = 395-637 (62.0%), 4108yds, 28 TD, 15 INT, 85.5 rating
Manning = 435-692 (62.9%), 5164yds, 28 TD, 19 INT, 87.6 rating

The big difference is in W-L record...The Colts went 9-9 in those games and the Patriots went 14-4.

[Enigma869]

Peyton's been awful in the last four playoff games he's played in. Prior to that, even in the losses, he played pretty well. Regardless, I don't place as much emphasis on Super Bowl wins in determining great QBs as some do. Hell, Dan Marino was a far better QB than a lot of Super Bowl winning QBs and the guy never even came close to sniffing a win in the big one.

Nobody said that Super Bowl wins determine great QB's. There is a whole lot more to it than that. As you correctly pointed out, many AWFUL QB's have won Super Bowls (Just off the top of my head...Marc Rypien, Doug Williams and Trent Dilfer come to mind). That said, everyone accepts that Peyton is a FAR better QB than many who have played before him. My point with Peyton is that I have seen many playoff games where he has absolutely been THE REASON his team lost the game. Again, the guy's career playoff record is 9-10, which isn't good for anyone...let alone a guy like Peyton Manning.

Hell, I've heard people criticize Tom Brady for losing the one Super Bowl he lost, and that loss had absolutely NOTHING to do with Brady. He did exactly what great QB's do...marched his team down the field with two minutes left in the Super Bowl and threw the go ahead TD. As a QB, there isn't much more you can do, beyond just hoping that your defense doesn't give the game away, like they ended up doing.

[conversationpc]

Nobody said that Super Bowl wins determine great QB's. There is a whole lot more to it than that. As you correctly pointed out, many AWFUL QB's have won Super Bowls (Just off the top of my head...Marc Rypien, Doug Williams and Trent Dilfer come to mind). That said, everyone accepts that Peyton is a FAR better QB than many who have played before him. My point with Peyton is that I have seen many playoff games where he has absolutely been THE REASON his team lost the game. Again, the guy's career playoff record is 9-10, which isn't good for anyone...let alone a guy like Peyton Manning.

I count 9-9 as his record in the playoffs, not that it's that big a difference from 9-10. As far as being THE REASON he lost those games, I'd have to go back and see them but I would doubt most of those losses could be put squarely on his shoulders.

[Ehwmatt]

Peyton needs another ring before I'm prepared to put him in the discussion of best of all time.

Sorry dude...Peyton isn't the best of all time and never will be. I'm a Peyton Manning fan and earlier in his career, I absolutely thought he might be the best ever. That said, it's impossible to overlook the fact that the guy has simply puked on his cleats way too many times, in big games. Hell, his career playoff record is 9-10, which is AWFUL for a QB of his stature! Great player, but I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 5 of all time. If his brother wins this weekend, Eli will move ahead of Peyton when it comes to being a big game QB. I actually feel badly for Peyton fans. Given the matchup this weekend, Peyton fans lose regardless of which team wins. If Brady wins, his legacy grows to a ridiculous level. If Eli wins, it won't be long until you hear many saying that Peyton isn't even the best QB in his own family!

I'm with you man, but if he were to somehow have a resurgence and snag another ring I'd have to include him in the discussion. His skill set and the way he literally installed his own offense are unparalleled, even by guys with better accomplishments on paper and comparable actual skills, like Brady. One more ring gets him back in the discussion.

But until then, wins DO count and like you said, he has been THE reason or one of the biggest reasons his team has lost several playoff games now.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if LeBron's career trajectory ends up being VERY similar to Peyton's. He'll almost have to accidentally sneak a ring in at some point, especially with half the NBA's old guard becoming ancient this year and into the future. And his FREAKISH skill set distinguished him even from the other mega stars during the regular seasons. But all in all, people will probably never forget the playoff failures, even if he sneaks one ring in somewhere. He's going to have to get at least 2 to overcome those shortcomings. Same with Peyton.

[Enigma869]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if LeBron's career trajectory ends up being VERY similar to Peyton's. He'll almost have to accidentally sneak a ring in at some point, especially with half the NBA's old guard becoming ancient this year and into the future. And his FREAKISH skill set distinguished him even from the other mega stars during the regular seasons. But all in all, people will probably never forget the playoff failures, even if he sneaks one ring in somewhere. He's going to have to get at least 2 to overcome those shortcomings. Same with Peyton.

Pretty good comparison, thusfar. That said, I still think Lebron will win multiple championships, even though I think he sucks in big games. He simply has too many other talented players around him not to win. Not to mention, it's FAR easier to win in the NBA than it will ever be to win in the NFL. I am on record as a Peyton fan. I genuinely like the guy. I think he has been an oustanding ambassador for the NFL and I think he had a shitload of talent. That said, when I look at the lack of talent that Brady won with and the talent that Peyton couldn't win with...it's just tough for me to overlook it. At this point, Manning is Dan Marino. Not a horrible thing to be, but, still something always missing.

[Ehwmatt]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if LeBron's career trajectory ends up being VERY similar to Peyton's. He'll almost have to accidentally sneak a ring in at some point, especially with half the NBA's old guard becoming ancient this year and into the future. And his FREAKISH skill set distinguished him even from the other mega stars during the regular seasons. But all in all, people will probably never forget the playoff failures, even if he sneaks one ring in somewhere. He's going to have to get at least 2 to overcome those shortcomings. Same with Peyton.

Pretty good comparison, thusfar. That said, I still think Lebron will win multiple championships, even though I think he sucks in big games. He simply has too many other talented players around him not to win. Not to mention, it's FAR easier to win in the NBA than it will ever be to win in the NFL. I am on record as a Peyton fan. I genuinely like the guy. I think he has been an oustanding ambassador for the NFL and I think he had a shitload of talent. That said, when I look at the lack of talent that Brady won with and the talent that Peyton couldn't win with...it's just tough for me to overlook it. At this point, Manning is Dan Marino. Not a horrible thing to be, but, still something always missing.

John, I'll be SHOCKED if Lebron goes on to win multiple rings. There are no guarantees the always-fragile Wade is going to be around or effective much longer. When someone liek Wade gets old, he gets old. And the Heat, as currently constructed, absolutely need Wade to win it all.

But most of all, I have watched and studied this guy probably more than anyone on these forums over the years. I've seen past the gaudy stats and the highlight reels. I've seen that he is a choke artist of the first degree, and I said that long before The Decision ever went down. Look, I played tennis at a pretty high level (yeah, laugh it up). If playing such a mental, individual sport taught me anything about watching other sports, it taught me to recognize when someone doesn't have the mental goods to get it done. It also taught me that those kinds of deficiencies aren't very easy to overcome. Getting ONE ring would be quite an accomplishment for this mental midget, his physical gifts notwithstanding.

[DavidWT]

I don't really care about Peyton at the moment, I'm more concerned with his little brother since he's the one who's actually, you know, playing in a Super Bowl this weekend.

Obviously, as a New Yorker, I hope the Giants win, but at the very least, I hope they put up a good fight. I really, really hope it's not one of those games where the Pats manage to rack up 45 points and the Giants can't do anything beyond a field goal.... (the memories of that 45-3 Jets loss against the Pats last season are still painful.) I think the Giants COULD win the game... possibly... but the Pats still frighten me. I'd much prefer if the Giants were playing, oh, I don't know, maybe this season's Colts. I'd be a lot more relaxed about that.

My father, on the other hand, hopes the Pats win, simply because he can't stand the NY media obsession with Eli. He basically hopes Eli makes a complete ass of himself just so the newspapers can finally move on to writing about someone else.

[Enigma869]

The NFL announces that all 32 teams will play at least one prime time game (God, help us all), and Thursday night games will now run the entire season and not just from Thanksgiving on.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/75372 ... odell-says

[Enigma869]

Patriots versus Giants – Two weeks ago, I thought the Giants would win this game. The more I look at it and listen to the Giants run their mouths, I’m almost convinced the Patriots are going to win. The comparisons from their last Super Bowl matchup are pointless to discuss. The Patriots had a very different passing game in that game than they have now. Brady was forced to hold onto the ball to wait for Randy Moss to get down the field, allowing the Giants pass rush to crush him. That Patriots team also didn’t have Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. I see the Patriots playing a whole lot of no huddle, and running some draw plays to slow the vaunted Giants pass rush down. It also makes sense to throw as many screen passes as possible, to neutralize that pass rush. It’s worth mentioning that in spite of the Patriots losing to the Giants earlier this season, the Giants sacked Brady one single time in that game.

This game is all about legacy. If the Giants win, the Tom Coughlin to the Hall of Fame talk starts. If Brady and Belichick win, it’s going to be tough to argue that they’re not right at the top, all time, especially when you consider that all of the other “dynasties” happened in the pre-free agent era, when teams stayed together for endless years. Bill Belichick has exactly three players (and one of them never plays) left from his first championship team. I suspect that Chuck Noll had almost all the same guys from his first championship to his last championship. I think the Patriots secondary is going to have a very difficult time covering a very good group of Giants receivers, which is why I think this game isn’t ending with a 17-14 score. I don’t think the Giants are going to have much more success covering the Patriots receivers. The one thing I think this game will have in common with their last Super Bowl meeting is that I think the team who has the ball last will win the game. Patriots 27 – Giants 24.

[YoungJRNY]

Super Bowl XLVI: New England Patriots VS N.Y Giants

Over the years, especially the past decade, the New England Patriots have not only advanced to the big game, but also put on some memorable championship runs, winning by the grain of their teeth in each matchup, and also losing by the grain of their teeth in Super Bowl XLII. That XLII defeat could be avenged tonight against that same team that ousted them 4 years ago by beating an surging N.Y Giants team in a re-match of one of the most exiting and upsetting finish's in Super Bowl history. There is a lot riding on this game and a win by either team will propel not only the Quarterbacks into a fairytale and enchanted category, but also the head coach's as well, respectively. Out of all those Super Bowls New England has played in years prior, I feel this is the one to where they are severely out-matched. During the coarse of this years playoff run, the Patriots played their homefield advantage close to their chest and wasn't really pressed at going against any overall, good football teams. They beat a horrendous Denver Broncos team at home and a very suspicious and unbalanced Ravens team at home, one to where they were WELL on their way of losing if it wasn't for a dropped T.D pass or a Billy Cundiff 32 yard missed field goal. The Giants on the other hand, played solid football all throughout the playoffs and went on the road to not only beat the league's #1 offense in Green Bay, but also one of the league's most VICIOUS defense on the road in San Francisco. The Giants have every weapon in their casualty to exploit the Patriots into having the worst game of their post-season thus far and I could potentially see them scoring every time they have the football. Tom Brady has started somewhat slow at times this season and had a bad performance against the Ravens at home and faced some heat, something that the Giants front-4 is capable of duplicating. Rob Gronkowski's availability is humongous in how this team will attack for the Patriots while the Giants will use all their jokers in their deck against a bad statistical defense. N.Y Giants 34 New England Patriots 23.

[S2M]

This is the 7th SB I've been subject to watching from this franchise. The Bears stomped them. Desmond Howard shoved a dagger in my chest, and the zebras ripped the last one from my chest. That being said, this team just knows how to win. You can bring up the Tuck Rule (too bad, so sad - the rule is the rule. Even *I* don't agree with it, but it's a rule - deal with it), you can bring up Spygate (technically breaking the rules, but most people don't even know the rule here. They just climb on the jealousy bandwagon and mouth off about things they know nothing about). This team wasn't supposed to beat the Greatest Team on Turf - they did. They won all 3 SBs by a field goal, again....so what. You don't get points for style, or margin of victory.

This NY team shouldn't even be in this game. But they righted the mid-season shipwreck, and now they are here. This NY team isn't THAT good. They have talented players at individual positions, but all in all - they aren't all that. Their defense is heaps better than their offense. I still don't trust Eli in the big game. His SB win was an anomoly, gift wrapped by Goodell. Now both brothers have hardware...

My prediction? NY will struggle to score 21 points, and their defense will struggle to keep NE below 30. It is what it is gentlemen. Don't trick yourself into making the pussy choice of picking NY, because you can't recognize what's really going on. Ask yourself what your choice would be if O'Hara was called for holding Seymour in SB42, and NE had rightfully won that game...so based on a non-call (refs had THREE holding calls to pick from on that ONE play, in fact), you are picking NY? Good Luck with that.


NE - 38
NY - 17

[Enigma869]

Looks like another Giant has weighed in with a prediction.




http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk ... 287158-933


@ChrisCanty99
Chris Canty Giants 28, NewEngland 17 RT @JasonRomano: Send me your Super Bowl predictions that stink -- Closest (cont) http://t.co/r8SfTXCK
Feb 05 via TweetCaster for iOS Favorite Retweet Reply

[Enigma869]

This is the 7th SB I've been subject to watching from this franchise.

Still amazing to me that a team who was the laughing stock of the NFL when I was growing up has now been to the Super Bowl one fewer time than Pittsburgh and Dallas. One more appearance, and they're tied for first and most appearances in the big game.

You can bring up the Tuck Rule (too bad, so sad - the rule is the rule. Even *I* don't agree with it, but it's a rule - deal with it)

The tuck rule comments are always moronic. That same play is called 20 times every season in the NFL and it's always called the same exact way. Raiders fans are the only dopes who apparently don't know what the rule is. I guess that I shouldn't be surprised, coming from a franchise who is committed to mediocrity!

you can bring up Spygate (technically breaking the rules, but most people don't even know the rule here.

I agree...bring up "Spygate" all day long. Just make sure that you mention that there isn't a team in the NFL who has more wins than the Patriots do since they were supposedly "caught cheating"!

They just climb on the jealousy bandwagon and mouth off about things they know nothing about). This team wasn't supposed to beat the Greatest Team on Turf - they did. They won all 3 SBs by a field goal, again....so what. You don't get points for style, or margin of victory.

Agreed. It doesn't matter how you win or how many points you win by. Hell, I think one of Pittsburgh's championships are as tainted as any in the history of the Super Bowl, but guess what...it still counts!

This NY team shouldn't even be in this game. But they righted the mid-season shipwreck, and now they are here.

I disagree that they don't deserve to be here. As bad as they were during the season, they turned things around when they needed to. Not many thought they would beat the Packers. The reality is that the Giants beat the number 1 and number 2 seeds to get here, and that's good enough for me to say that they are exactly where they belong!

[Ehwmatt]

Very excited for another barnburner of a Super Bowl. We NFL fans have been fortunate in the big game the last few years...

I've heard several people predicting a blowout (one way or the other) because "we are due" for one after the last few great nailbiting Super Bowls. That is a goofy ass rationale and an even goofier underlying prediction vis-a-vis the result.

My final prediction:

Giants 28, Pats 21.

[Enigma869]

Sporting News ranks the top Super Bowls of all time.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... d%3D132879

[S2M]

These 2 weeks have been both nerve-racking, and disgusting.....and I'm shocked that players still choose to bump their gums. I wouldn't be surprised if this game is over by halftime.

[AR]

New York vs. Boston

[S2M]

I know you are watching....NOW tell me Seymour wasn't being held/choked. Pitiful.

[YoungJRNY]

I know you are watching....NOW tell me Seymour wasn't being held/choked. Pitiful.

Forget all that hoopla. At the speed of the game, it's pretty hard to determine a hold, or a "choke" in a clusterfuck of epic proportion on Eli's great escape. I can see the no call, I don't think there was obvious holding on that play for the refs to throw an obvious hold. James Harrison gets "choked" on virtually every play on his path to the quarterback with it only being called maybe a few times ALL YEAR so givin' that certain play, the refs were right. I think the problem lies on the OTHER end of the field. That dude had no business making that catch with one of the hardest hitting safety's in the league draped all over him. I'd be more PISSED over that, than a holding call that wasn't called because quite frankly, there's holding on every single play. That whole sequence could of been avoided if Harrison simply flicks that ball away from the grasp of Tyree against his helmet. Instead, you have to live with one of the most upsetting drives in SB history. For your sake, you better hope New England comes out firing tonight. Going down 0-2 to Eli Manning and a N.Y team in Super Bowl's will be another "dagger" in your heart, regardless of how the refs perform tonight on both sides of the equation. If you ask me, there's NO consolation prize with just getting to a Super Bowl. Losing it is the worst scenario for all 32 NFL teams in the league.

I may have to 'block' you tonight, FEARING the worst of your credibility as soon as the first flag (or non-flag) is thrown or NOT thrown on the games first possession.

[Enigma869]

Going down 0-2 to Eli Manning and a N.Y team in Super Bowl's will be another "dagger" in your heart, regardless of how the refs perform tonight on both sides of the equation.

I personally don't think that it would be much of a "dagger" to any Boston sports fan. The reality is that most outside of Boston are picking the Giants to win this game, so it wouldn't exactly be an upset, like 2007 was. This game could go either way. Neither team winning would surprise me, even a little. The only possibility in this game that I would personally consider shocking would be if either team got blown out.

[YoungJRNY]

Going down 0-2 to Eli Manning and a N.Y team in Super Bowl's will be another "dagger" in your heart, regardless of how the refs perform tonight on both sides of the equation.

I personally don't think that it would be much of a "dagger" to any Boston sports fan. The reality is that most outside of Boston are picking the Giants to win this game, so it wouldn't exactly be an upset, like 2007 was. This game could go either way. Neither team winning would surprise me, even a little. The only possibility in this game that I would personally consider shocking would be if either team got blown out.

For some ODD reason, my gut is telling me we may get that, whichever team it may be and it could easily be both teams landing the spanking down on one another. I hope it's a good Super Bowl. I'm probably wrong judging by recent Super Bowls, but this one could be a blowout in the making.

[S2M]

Going down 0-2 to Eli Manning and a N.Y team in Super Bowl's will be another "dagger" in your heart, regardless of how the refs perform tonight on both sides of the equation.

I personally don't think that it would be much of a "dagger" to any Boston sports fan. The reality is that most outside of Boston are picking the Giants to win this game, so it wouldn't exactly be an upset, like 2007 was. This game could go either way. Neither team winning would surprise me, even a little. The only possibility in this game that I would personally consider shocking would be if either team got blown out.

For some ODD reason, my gut is telling me we may get that, whichever team it may be and it could easily be both teams landing the spanking down on one another. I hope it's a good Super Bowl. I'm probably wrong judging by recent Super Bowls, but this one could be a blowout in the making.

If NY doesn't force a T/O they have NO chance....

Mark Bavaro isn't walking through that door, folks....Stephen Baker isn't on the roster. Dave Meggett? Nope...

[YoungJRNY]

Good luck to Pats/Giants fans. Here's to a great Super Bowl to close out the 2011 NFL football season.

[S2M]

[RedWingFan]

The Patriots lost the coin toss? Damn refs! The fix is in!!!

[S2M]

Rnd 1 - NE

[AlteredDNA]

OOPS!!

[S2M]

BULLSHIT! Never seen that call called ONCE in my 30+ years of watching football. WOW!!!

I've seen QBS chuck it 30 yards out of the End Zone....

[YoungJRNY]

Ouch. Tommy Terrific forgetting he's a 3 time Super Bowl winning QB