2011-2012 NFL Season Thread

[mikemarrs]

2012 NFL Draft live on NFL Network, beginning on Thurs., April 26 with the first round, continuing on Friday, April 27 for the second and third rounds, and concluding on Sat., April 28....


Well only a few more weeks until the draft.Can't wait

[YoungJRNY]

2012 NFL Draft live on NFL Network, beginning on Thurs., April 26 with the first round, continuing on Friday, April 27 for the second and third rounds, and concluding on Sat., April 28....


Well only a few more weeks until the draft.Can't wait

The 2012 schedule should be coming out in a matter of weeks as well. It's April, the draft is coming and it's inching closer and closer Getting excited.

[Liam]

You can watch the draft on NFL.com if you don't have NFLN (like my sorry ass.)

[Enigma869]

Everybody will remember those special teams gaffes, but if you watch the game again with an objective eye you can see that Smith completely tightened up in the second half. He was skipping footballs off the ground 3 yards in front of him on screens and short slant routes and just couldn't do ANYTHING. Hard to throw interceptions when the ball isn't even in the air. He just doesn't have the arm. The era of Trent Dilfer-caliber QBs winning the Super Bowl is long over.

I'm pretty sure John (Enigma) is as unimpressed with Smith as I am. John--care to chime in?

I'm not much of an Alex Smith fan. He won a playoff game that I didn't think he had any shot of winning (and he won that game on his own). That said, he's a JAG (just another guy). 19th in the league in passing yards and 17th in TD passes isn't good enough in a passing league. Running backs have become almost irrelevant in the NFL. Trent Dilfer's situation was a once in a lifetime occurrence. He just happened to be fortunate enough to land on a team with one of the most dominant defenses ever assembled. Hell, the guy was cut the second his team won the Super Bowl, so that should give you some indication how significant the Ravens thought Dilfer's role in that championship was. Smith (and most other QB's) could win a championship with an all-time dominant defense, but I'm not convinced the Niners are quite that good. It's been said that Smith has "improved" with each season. Perhaps. That said, he's never going to be an elite QB that a team should be build around. Also, he didn't really have any other direction to do in, given how much he sucked his first couple of years.

[slucero]

Everybody will remember those special teams gaffes, but if you watch the game again with an objective eye you can see that Smith completely tightened up in the second half. He was skipping footballs off the ground 3 yards in front of him on screens and short slant routes and just couldn't do ANYTHING. Hard to throw interceptions when the ball isn't even in the air. He just doesn't have the arm. The era of Trent Dilfer-caliber QBs winning the Super Bowl is long over.

I'm pretty sure John (Enigma) is as unimpressed with Smith as I am. John--care to chime in?

I'm not much of an Alex Smith fan. He won a playoff game that I didn't think he had any shot of winning (and he won that game on his own). That said, he's a JAG (just another guy). 19th in the league in passing yards and 17th in TD passes isn't good enough in a passing league. Running backs have become almost irrelevant in the NFL. Trent Dilfer's situation was a once in a lifetime occurrence. He just happened to be fortunate enough to land on a team with one of the most dominant defenses ever assembled. Hell, the guy was cut the second his team won the Super Bowl, so that should give you some indication how significant the Ravens thought Dilfer's role in that championship was. Smith (and most other QB's) could win a championship with an all-time dominant defense, but I'm not convinced the Niners are quite that good. It's been said that Smith has "improved" with each season. Perhaps. That said, he's never going to be an elite QB that a team should be build around. Also, he didn't really have any other direction to do in, given how much he sucked his first couple of years.

I don't buy that... and neither does Troy Aikman...

Alex Smith's career could've been far different
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1MR5HF.DTL
Eric Branch, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, January 19, 2012

In their second NFL seasons, 49ers quarterback Alex Smith had more yards, touchdowns and a higher quarterback rating than did Hall of Famer Troy Aikman.

After their second year in the league, however, circumstances changed dramatically for Smith and Aikman. And their divergent paths involved the same assistant coach.

In Aikman's case, the Cowboys hired Norv Turner as their offensive coordinator in 1991, and the struggling QB began a three-year run with Turner that included three Pro Bowls and two Super Bowl titles. For Smith, who prospered under Turner's guidance in 2006, his career began a steep descent after his offensive coordinator left San Francisco to become the Chargers' head coach.

Five years, three head coaches and five offensive coordinators later, Smith is on the doorstep of the Super Bowl and Aikman, a Fox analyst, will be in the broadcast booth Sunday when the Niners host the Giants in the NFC Championship Game at Candlestick Park.

Thanks to their shared relationship with Turner Aikman knows better than most how Smith's career trajectory could have been far different before 2011.

"Absolutely it could have been," said Aikman, who threw 20 touchdowns, 36 interceptions and had a 7-19 record as a starter in his first two seasons. "Absolutely. I know what Norv does for a quarterback and I know what he meant to my career. ...

"That's a big part of it is having a guy who really understands offense who is able to put you in the right position. Unfortunately for Alex, Norv was just there one season and then he moved on. You know, Brett Favre ran the same offense for 35 years or however long it was. There's something to be said for that."

Aikman noted that Smith's counterpart Sunday, the Giants' Eli Manning, has had far more stability during his eight-year career. Tom Coughlin has been Manning's only head coach. New York's fifth-year offensive coordinator, Kevin Gilbride, was Manning's position coach in his first three seasons.

For Smith, well, it's better late than never. His career has been resurrected thanks to the guidance of head coach Jim Harbaugh, who had a 15-year career as a quarterback in the NFL.

"Norv just understood," Aikman said. "He played (quarterback) in college, but without having played in the pros, he understood what that guy under center was dealing with. That's Jim Harbaugh and how he's been helpful to Alex in that regard. He's a head coach who played the position and knows how difficult the position is with the expectations and challenges."

Aikman expects Smith to continue improving under Harbaugh, noting Smith is only 27. However, he doesn't expect Smith to ever put up gaudy numbers in Harbaugh's offense, which leans heavily on the ground game.

Smith ranked 17th in the NFL in touchdowns (17) this season and 19th in yards (3,144). Aikman can relate. On offenses headlined by running back Emmitt Smith, he did not have a 4,000-yard season and threw for more than 19 touchdowns once in his 12-year career.

Aikman realized early that his career wouldn't be defined by stats, but by Super Bowls. For that reason, his only focus became winning, and he didn't tolerate teammates who didn't share his mind-set. Similarly, Smith has shrugged off questions regarding his so-so stats this season and repeatedly stated his focus is on wins and losses.

Now Smith is two wins away from sharing something else with Aikman besides their relationship with Turner.

"Right now, Alex is realizing the fruits of that; if you win, none of those other things really matter," Aikman said. "Ultimately, you get the credit and the recognition that you deserve when you win. I think at the quarterback position, if you just win, and make that a priority, the rest of it will take care of itself."

Sophomore years

Alex Smith had a better second season in the NFL than Troy Aikman. By his fourth season, however, Aikman led the Cowboys to a 13-3 record and a Super Bowl title. Smith, now in his seventh season, led the 49ers to a 13-3 record and the NFC title game. A look at Year 2 of their respective careers:

[mikemarrs]

As the Colts prepare to put Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck through a private workout, the other potential first overall pick in the draft has declined an invitation to do the same thing.

Colts owner Jim Irsay says via Twitter that Robert Griffin III has declined an invitation to work out for the team. Irsay specifically blames the decision on Griffin’s agent, Ben Dogra. But if Griffin wanted to work out for the Colts, Griffin would be working out for the Colts.

So what does it mean? Apparently, Griffin has no interest in following Peyton Manning as the quarterback of the Colts. Instead, Griffin wants to play, apparently, for the Redskins, who hold the second pick in the draft.

And so the power play comes not from the quarterback who went to the same school as the last high-profile quarterback who dissed the Colts. Instead, the guy who possibly is in position to leapfrog Luck doesn’t want to go to Indy, even if it means being the first overall pick.

It’s also possible that the Griffin camp is completely convinced that Luck will be the pick, regardless of what Griffin would do at a personal workout, and that Griffin isn’t interested in wasting his time.

Either way, Griffin is more than willing to yield the top pick in the draft to Luck, something that under the rookie wage scale means a lot less than it used to.

[mikemarrs]

I feel sorry for the Skins in a way because ever since Snyder bought the team they just can't seem to get a consistent winner on the field and this has been going on for over a decade or more now.Maybe Griffin just might get that team over the hump once and for all.The Giants and Eagles both have pretty much together owned the NFC East the past twelve years.Of course back in the 90's the Cowboys and Redskins had their days of running the division.Maybe the tides will turn once again with a new decade still early.Will be interesting to see if Griffin can turn them into a winner and save Mike Shannahan from getting the axe from Snyder.

[mikemarrs]

New Seattle Seahawks Uniform....

With the NFL formally unveiling its new line of Nike apparel today, the Seahawks were the team everyone was keeping an eye on, after they promised a “new age” look.

Now we’ve seen what the new-age Seahawks look like: The team’s website has posted a full-scale fashion show of the team’s redesigned gear.

Reactions have been mixed. Packers tight end Jermichael Finley loves them, writing on Twitter, “Seahawks has the best looking Jerseys. THEY ARE SICK!”

But Paul Lukas, the obsessive chronicler of sports uniforms, wrote on the Uni Watch Twitter, “It is SERIOUSLY ugly.

[Ehwmatt]

Everybody will remember those special teams gaffes, but if you watch the game again with an objective eye you can see that Smith completely tightened up in the second half. He was skipping footballs off the ground 3 yards in front of him on screens and short slant routes and just couldn't do ANYTHING. Hard to throw interceptions when the ball isn't even in the air. He just doesn't have the arm. The era of Trent Dilfer-caliber QBs winning the Super Bowl is long over.

I'm pretty sure John (Enigma) is as unimpressed with Smith as I am. John--care to chime in?

I'm not much of an Alex Smith fan. He won a playoff game that I didn't think he had any shot of winning (and he won that game on his own). That said, he's a JAG (just another guy). 19th in the league in passing yards and 17th in TD passes isn't good enough in a passing league. Running backs have become almost irrelevant in the NFL. Trent Dilfer's situation was a once in a lifetime occurrence. He just happened to be fortunate enough to land on a team with one of the most dominant defenses ever assembled. Hell, the guy was cut the second his team won the Super Bowl, so that should give you some indication how significant the Ravens thought Dilfer's role in that championship was. Smith (and most other QB's) could win a championship with an all-time dominant defense, but I'm not convinced the Niners are quite that good. It's been said that Smith has "improved" with each season. Perhaps. That said, he's never going to be an elite QB that a team should be build around. Also, he didn't really have any other direction to do in, given how much he sucked his first couple of years.

I don't buy that... and neither does Troy Aikman...

Alex Smith's career could've been far different
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1MR5HF.DTL
Eric Branch, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, January 19, 2012

In their second NFL seasons, 49ers quarterback Alex Smith had more yards, touchdowns and a higher quarterback rating than did Hall of Famer Troy Aikman.

After their second year in the league, however, circumstances changed dramatically for Smith and Aikman. And their divergent paths involved the same assistant coach.

In Aikman's case, the Cowboys hired Norv Turner as their offensive coordinator in 1991, and the struggling QB began a three-year run with Turner that included three Pro Bowls and two Super Bowl titles. For Smith, who prospered under Turner's guidance in 2006, his career began a steep descent after his offensive coordinator left San Francisco to become the Chargers' head coach.

Five years, three head coaches and five offensive coordinators later, Smith is on the doorstep of the Super Bowl and Aikman, a Fox analyst, will be in the broadcast booth Sunday when the Niners host the Giants in the NFC Championship Game at Candlestick Park.

Thanks to their shared relationship with Turner Aikman knows better than most how Smith's career trajectory could have been far different before 2011.

"Absolutely it could have been," said Aikman, who threw 20 touchdowns, 36 interceptions and had a 7-19 record as a starter in his first two seasons. "Absolutely. I know what Norv does for a quarterback and I know what he meant to my career. ...

"That's a big part of it is having a guy who really understands offense who is able to put you in the right position. Unfortunately for Alex, Norv was just there one season and then he moved on. You know, Brett Favre ran the same offense for 35 years or however long it was. There's something to be said for that."

Aikman noted that Smith's counterpart Sunday, the Giants' Eli Manning, has had far more stability during his eight-year career. Tom Coughlin has been Manning's only head coach. New York's fifth-year offensive coordinator, Kevin Gilbride, was Manning's position coach in his first three seasons.

For Smith, well, it's better late than never. His career has been resurrected thanks to the guidance of head coach Jim Harbaugh, who had a 15-year career as a quarterback in the NFL.

"Norv just understood," Aikman said. "He played (quarterback) in college, but without having played in the pros, he understood what that guy under center was dealing with. That's Jim Harbaugh and how he's been helpful to Alex in that regard. He's a head coach who played the position and knows how difficult the position is with the expectations and challenges."

Aikman expects Smith to continue improving under Harbaugh, noting Smith is only 27. However, he doesn't expect Smith to ever put up gaudy numbers in Harbaugh's offense, which leans heavily on the ground game.

Smith ranked 17th in the NFL in touchdowns (17) this season and 19th in yards (3,144). Aikman can relate. On offenses headlined by running back Emmitt Smith, he did not have a 4,000-yard season and threw for more than 19 touchdowns once in his 12-year career.

Aikman realized early that his career wouldn't be defined by stats, but by Super Bowls. For that reason, his only focus became winning, and he didn't tolerate teammates who didn't share his mind-set. Similarly, Smith has shrugged off questions regarding his so-so stats this season and repeatedly stated his focus is on wins and losses.

Now Smith is two wins away from sharing something else with Aikman besides their relationship with Turner.

"Right now, Alex is realizing the fruits of that; if you win, none of those other things really matter," Aikman said. "Ultimately, you get the credit and the recognition that you deserve when you win. I think at the quarterback position, if you just win, and make that a priority, the rest of it will take care of itself."

Sophomore years

Alex Smith had a better second season in the NFL than Troy Aikman. By his fourth season, however, Aikman led the Cowboys to a 13-3 record and a Super Bowl title. Smith, now in his seventh season, led the 49ers to a 13-3 record and the NFC title game. A look at Year 2 of their respective careers:

I'm not going to read that whole article, but this dopey (to channel John) chart at the bottom of this article draws the exact same kind of comparisons that the hopers and prayers here in Cleveland are drawing to Colt McCoy. I've heard his numbers compared to Aikman, Manning, Brees etc. It's laughable, and not an accurate metric.

[slucero]

I'm not going to read that whole article, but this dopey (to channel John) chart at the bottom of this article draws the exact same kind of comparisons that the hopers and prayers here in Cleveland are drawing to Colt McCoy. I've heard his numbers compared to Aikman, Manning, Brees etc. It's laughable, and not an accurate metric.

So according to you - you know more about being a quarterback in the NFL than Troy Aikman...


Just how many seasons did you play?..... care to show us YOUR credentials?

[No Surprize]

New Seattle Seahawks Uniform....

With the NFL formally unveiling its new line of Nike apparel today, the Seahawks were the team everyone was keeping an eye on, after they promised a “new age” look.

Now we’ve seen what the new-age Seahawks look like: The team’s website has posted a full-scale fashion show of the team’s redesigned gear.

Reactions have been mixed. Packers tight end Jermichael Finley loves them, writing on Twitter, “Seahawks has the best looking Jerseys. THEY ARE SICK!”

But Paul Lukas, the obsessive chronicler of sports uniforms, wrote on the Uni Watch Twitter, “It is SERIOUSLY ugly.

I'm all for this but Seattle's is the only one even remotely different, wonder why? I was hoping for a big change in the uni's & helmet's of all the teams. After 40 some years of the same, it's time.

[mikemarrs]

New Seattle Seahawks Uniform....

With the NFL formally unveiling its new line of Nike apparel today, the Seahawks were the team everyone was keeping an eye on, after they promised a “new age” look.

Now we’ve seen what the new-age Seahawks look like: The team’s website has posted a full-scale fashion show of the team’s redesigned gear.

Reactions have been mixed. Packers tight end Jermichael Finley loves them, writing on Twitter, “Seahawks has the best looking Jerseys. THEY ARE SICK!”

But Paul Lukas, the obsessive chronicler of sports uniforms, wrote on the Uni Watch Twitter, “It is SERIOUSLY ugly.

I'm all for this but Seattle's is the only one even remotely different, wonder why? I was hoping for a big change in the uni's & helmet's of all the teams. After 40 some years of the same, it's time.

I was hoping too for a change or new twist but like you said its the same 'ol same 'ol look.

[Ehwmatt]

I'm not going to read that whole article, but this dopey (to channel John) chart at the bottom of this article draws the exact same kind of comparisons that the hopers and prayers here in Cleveland are drawing to Colt McCoy. I've heard his numbers compared to Aikman, Manning, Brees etc. It's laughable, and not an accurate metric.

So according to you - you know more about being a quarterback in the NFL than Troy Aikman...


Just how many seasons did you play?..... care to show us YOUR credentials?

No need to address your crappy, fallacious rhetoric. Just remember, Aikman is an analyst and in my experience is far too nice about giving his 2 cents about players. This is the same guy who recently proclaimed Tony Romo is also better than he was. You think he's right about that, too?

By that logic, every player in the NFL should be a pro bowler because Jon Gruden heaps effusive praise on anyone who suits up every Monday night. Or at a minimum, none of us could say a bad word about any NFL player or have our own opinion about how good they are because Gruden thinks they're all great.

[slucero]

I'm not going to read that whole article, but this dopey (to channel John) chart at the bottom of this article draws the exact same kind of comparisons that the hopers and prayers here in Cleveland are drawing to Colt McCoy. I've heard his numbers compared to Aikman, Manning, Brees etc. It's laughable, and not an accurate metric.

So according to you - you know more about being a quarterback in the NFL than Troy Aikman...


Just how many seasons did you play?..... care to show us YOUR credentials?

No need to address your crappy, fallacious rhetoric. Just remember, Aikman is an analyst and in my experience is far too nice about giving his 2 cents about players. This is the same guy who recently proclaimed Tony Romo is also better than he was. You think he's right about that, too?

By that logic, every player in the NFL should be a pro bowler because Jon Gruden heaps effusive praise on anyone who suits up every Monday night. Or at a minimum, none of us could say a bad word about any NFL player or have our own opinion about how good they are because Gruden thinks they're all great.

LMAO... man you are full of yourself aren't you?


You didn't read the article.. yet you call my post misleading....


You call Aikman an "analyst"... yet say he's "too nice"... however, that doesn't mean he isn't accurate, or isn't speaking from experience, of which he has loads and you have NONE...


At the pace you are going, your rhetoric is sounding fairly fallacious. actually its sounding more fellatious, with yourself...


Read the article, post some facts to support your point or shut the fuck up...

[Ehwmatt]

I'm not going to read that whole article, but this dopey (to channel John) chart at the bottom of this article draws the exact same kind of comparisons that the hopers and prayers here in Cleveland are drawing to Colt McCoy. I've heard his numbers compared to Aikman, Manning, Brees etc. It's laughable, and not an accurate metric.

So according to you - you know more about being a quarterback in the NFL than Troy Aikman...


Just how many seasons did you play?..... care to show us YOUR credentials?

No need to address your crappy, fallacious rhetoric. Just remember, Aikman is an analyst and in my experience is far too nice about giving his 2 cents about players. This is the same guy who recently proclaimed Tony Romo is also better than he was. You think he's right about that, too?

By that logic, every player in the NFL should be a pro bowler because Jon Gruden heaps effusive praise on anyone who suits up every Monday night. Or at a minimum, none of us could say a bad word about any NFL player or have our own opinion about how good they are because Gruden thinks they're all great.

LMAO... man you are full of yourself aren't you?


You didn't read the article.. yet you call my post misleading....


You call Aikman an "analyst"... yet say he's "too nice"... however, that doesn't mean he isn't accurate, or isn't speaking from experience, of which he has loads and you have NONE...


At the pace you are going, your rhetoric is sounding fairly fallacious. actually its sounding more fellatious, with yourself...


Read the article, post some facts to support your point or shut the fuck up...

I'm not sure what type of "facts" will be good enough for you since we're discussing something that's inherently at least somewhat opinion-based. I went back and read the article and found it to be unflattering at best. Alex Smith had pedestrian numbers as a rookie and 2nd year QB in the league, like tons of legendary and completely forgettable quarterbacks have. Big deal. He's got no arm, and like John said, even if he did improve, he really only had one way to go after his 1st year in the league.

But to humor your desire for "facts," I googled "Alex Smith is terrible article" and found this article from Greg Cosell, a renowned NFL film and player evaluator and media member. In it, he basically makes the arguments I was posting when you got all hot and bothered in the first place--namely, that Smith sucked ass in the NFC Championship game. I had no idea this article existed until you replied with the above post.

It’s very easy to blame Kyle Williams for the 49ers NFC Championship defeat. Certainly, without his punt return mistakes, San Francisco had a legitimate chance to advance to Super Bowl 46.

It could be argued that the 49ers played their brand of football against the Giants. They ran the ball 28 times for 150 yards, including 2 runs by Alex Smith out of the read option. Smith threw 26 passes, completing 12 for 196 yards and 2 beautiful touchdowns to Vernon Davis. He did not throw an interception. That’s the kind of offensive balance and efficiency the 49ers have preached, and executed, all season.

No miscues by Williams deep in San Francisco territory, and 49ers football reigns. I imagine the faithful see it that way. For those who do, the discussion is over. Nothing more needs to be said or evaluated.

It’s never that simple. As always, a careful study of the coaching tape revealed much more. The NFC Championship should not have been as close as it was. I wrote last week that Smith was the difference against the Saints in the Divisional Playoff, a game in which he was outstanding, especially in critical moments. Unfortunately for the 49ers, against the Giants, Smith was also the difference.

Let’s start with the first 3rd down of the game. It was 3rd and 4; the 49ers had already gotten 1 first down. Michael Crabtree ran a sail route (kind of a flattened corner route). He was wide open. Smith, with no pressure in the pocket, did not pull the trigger. It was a throw that had to be made. The result of the play was an incompletion on a late check down to Frank Gore.

The first play of the 49ers fourth offensive possession was also telling. It was a shot play, a called big play off Smith boot action. Williams ran a deep post off a stutter move. The double move froze Corey Webster, and Williams raced by him. The design of the play worked. Smith overthrew Williams by 5 yards. A good throw, and it was a touchdown. An adequate throw, and it was still a 50 yard gain. This was another missed opportunity.

But the first play of the second half was perhaps the most indicative of Smith’s performance. You come out of halftime with a specific plan. The 49ers went to one of their staples, the wheel route. A shot play right out of the gate. Delanie Walker, from his line of scrimmage tight end position, ran by a slipping Webster. The concept worked to perfection. Walker screamed down the sideline. Smith again did not pull the trigger from a clean pocket. He ended up getting sacked for a 7 yard loss.

These are just a few examples of Smith’s tentative and uncertain pocket play last Sunday. The bottom line was this: Smith was reluctant to let it loose on routes and throws that were not only well designed, but were open. They were primary reads. No progressions were involved.

One of the attributes that separates high level quarterback play in big games and critical moments is the willingness to make stick throws into smaller windows. Smith did that with confidence against the Saints. In the NFC Championship game, he was hesitant and cautious on throws that were clearly defined. Simply put, Smith left a lot of plays on the field against the Giants. While Williams publicly shouldered the burden of defeat, it was his quarterback who failed to deliver on the promise he had shown a week earlier.

Now I'm sure you'll come back and say, "BUT AIKMAN PLAYED IN THE NFL! HIS OPINION TRUMPS ALL!" That's fine--I guess every GM, coach, and scout who didn't get first-team reps for an NFL team must not be as qualified to evaluate players and film and draw conclusions. But anyway, this pretty clearly shows that at least one well-respected "expert" feels like I do about Smith.

[mikemarrs]

2012 PRESEASON WEEK-BY-WEEK SCHEDULE
HALL OF FAME GAME – AUGUST 5
Arizona vs. New Orleans (NFLN)

WEEK 1 – AUGUST 9-13
Green Bay at San Diego (ESPN, 8/9)
Dallas at Oakland (ESPN, 8/13)
Arizona at Kansas City
Baltimore at Atlanta
Cleveland at Detroit
Denver at Chicago
Houston at Carolina
Minnesota at San Francisco
New Orleans at New England
NY Giants at Jacksonville
NY Jets at Cincinnati
Pittsburgh at Philadelphia
St. Louis at Indianapolis
Tampa Bay at Miami
Tennessee at Seattle
Washington at Buffalo

WEEK 2 – AUGUST 16-20
Cincinnati at Atlanta (FOX, 8/16)
Detroit at Baltimore (FOX, 8/17)
Indianapolis at Pittsburgh (NBC, 8/19)
Philadelphia at New England (ESPN, 8/20)
Buffalo at Minnesota
Cleveland at Green Bay
Dallas at San Diego
Jacksonville at New Orleans
Kansas City at St. Louis
Miami at Carolina
NY Giants at NY Jets
Oakland at Arizona
San Francisco at Houston
Seattle at Denver
Tennessee at Tampa Bay
Washington at Chicago

WEEK 3 – AUGUST 23-26
Arizona at Tennessee (ESPN, 8/23)
Chicago at NY Giants (CBS, 8/24)
Houston at New Orleans (CBS, 8/25)
San Francisco at Denver (FOX, 8/26)
Carolina at NY Jets (NBC, 8/26)
Atlanta at Miami
Detroit at Oakland
Green Bay at Cincinnati
Indianapolis at Washington
Jacksonville at Baltimore
New England at Tampa Bay
Philadelphia at Cleveland
Pittsburgh at Buffalo
San Diego at Minnesota
Seattle at Kansas City
St. Louis at Dallas

WEEK 4 – AUGUST 29-30
Atlanta at Jacksonville
Baltimore at St. Louis
Buffalo at Detroit
Carolina at Pittsburgh
Chicago at Cleveland
Cincinnati at Indianapolis
Denver at Arizona
Kansas City at Green Bay
Miami at Dallas
Minnesota at Houston
New England at NY Giants
New Orleans at Tennessee
NY Jets at Philadelphia
Oakland at Seattle
San Diego at San Francisco
Tampa Bay at Washington

[YoungJRNY]

I'm not going to read that whole article, but this dopey (to channel John) chart at the bottom of this article draws the exact same kind of comparisons that the hopers and prayers here in Cleveland are drawing to Colt McCoy. I've heard his numbers compared to Aikman, Manning, Brees etc. It's laughable, and not an accurate metric.

So according to you - you know more about being a quarterback in the NFL than Troy Aikman...


Just how many seasons did you play?..... care to show us YOUR credentials?

No need to address your crappy, fallacious rhetoric. Just remember, Aikman is an analyst and in my experience is far too nice about giving his 2 cents about players. This is the same guy who recently proclaimed Tony Romo is also better than he was. You think he's right about that, too?

By that logic, every player in the NFL should be a pro bowler because Jon Gruden heaps effusive praise on anyone who suits up every Monday night. Or at a minimum, none of us could say a bad word about any NFL player or have our own opinion about how good they are because Gruden thinks they're all great.

LMAO... man you are full of yourself aren't you?


You didn't read the article.. yet you call my post misleading....


You call Aikman an "analyst"... yet say he's "too nice"... however, that doesn't mean he isn't accurate, or isn't speaking from experience, of which he has loads and you have NONE...


At the pace you are going, your rhetoric is sounding fairly fallacious. actually its sounding more fellatious, with yourself...


Read the article, post some facts to support your point or shut the fuck up...

I'm not sure what type of "facts" will be good enough for you since we're discussing something that's inherently at least somewhat opinion-based. I went back and read the article and found it to be unflattering at best. Alex Smith had pedestrian numbers as a rookie and 2nd year QB in the league, like tons of legendary and completely forgettable quarterbacks have. Big deal. He's got no arm, and like John said, even if he did improve, he really only had one way to go after his 1st year in the league.

But to humor your desire for "facts," I googled "Alex Smith is terrible article" and found this article from Greg Cosell, a renowned NFL film and player evaluator and media member. In it, he basically makes the arguments I was posting when you got all hot and bothered in the first place--namely, that Smith sucked ass in the NFC Championship game. I had no idea this article existed until you replied with the above post.

It’s very easy to blame Kyle Williams for the 49ers NFC Championship defeat. Certainly, without his punt return mistakes, San Francisco had a legitimate chance to advance to Super Bowl 46.

It could be argued that the 49ers played their brand of football against the Giants. They ran the ball 28 times for 150 yards, including 2 runs by Alex Smith out of the read option. Smith threw 26 passes, completing 12 for 196 yards and 2 beautiful touchdowns to Vernon Davis. He did not throw an interception. That’s the kind of offensive balance and efficiency the 49ers have preached, and executed, all season.

No miscues by Williams deep in San Francisco territory, and 49ers football reigns. I imagine the faithful see it that way. For those who do, the discussion is over. Nothing more needs to be said or evaluated.

It’s never that simple. As always, a careful study of the coaching tape revealed much more. The NFC Championship should not have been as close as it was. I wrote last week that Smith was the difference against the Saints in the Divisional Playoff, a game in which he was outstanding, especially in critical moments. Unfortunately for the 49ers, against the Giants, Smith was also the difference.

Let’s start with the first 3rd down of the game. It was 3rd and 4; the 49ers had already gotten 1 first down. Michael Crabtree ran a sail route (kind of a flattened corner route). He was wide open. Smith, with no pressure in the pocket, did not pull the trigger. It was a throw that had to be made. The result of the play was an incompletion on a late check down to Frank Gore.

The first play of the 49ers fourth offensive possession was also telling. It was a shot play, a called big play off Smith boot action. Williams ran a deep post off a stutter move. The double move froze Corey Webster, and Williams raced by him. The design of the play worked. Smith overthrew Williams by 5 yards. A good throw, and it was a touchdown. An adequate throw, and it was still a 50 yard gain. This was another missed opportunity.

But the first play of the second half was perhaps the most indicative of Smith’s performance. You come out of halftime with a specific plan. The 49ers went to one of their staples, the wheel route. A shot play right out of the gate. Delanie Walker, from his line of scrimmage tight end position, ran by a slipping Webster. The concept worked to perfection. Walker screamed down the sideline. Smith again did not pull the trigger from a clean pocket. He ended up getting sacked for a 7 yard loss.

These are just a few examples of Smith’s tentative and uncertain pocket play last Sunday. The bottom line was this: Smith was reluctant to let it loose on routes and throws that were not only well designed, but were open. They were primary reads. No progressions were involved.

One of the attributes that separates high level quarterback play in big games and critical moments is the willingness to make stick throws into smaller windows. Smith did that with confidence against the Saints. In the NFC Championship game, he was hesitant and cautious on throws that were clearly defined. Simply put, Smith left a lot of plays on the field against the Giants. While Williams publicly shouldered the burden of defeat, it was his quarterback who failed to deliver on the promise he had shown a week earlier.

Now I'm sure you'll come back and say, "BUT AIKMAN PLAYED IN THE NFL! HIS OPINION TRUMPS ALL!" That's fine--I guess every GM, coach, and scout who didn't get first-team reps for an NFL team must not be as qualified to evaluate players and film and draw conclusions. But anyway, this pretty clearly shows that at least one well-respected "expert" feels like I do about Smith.

Your general emphasis and opinion of Smith is shared with the majority of the public opinion. Over his career and even last season, Smith has showed that he is simply a game managing QB not asked to do much but to at the very best, move the chains, gain a couple first downs and maybe get the team into scoring range (field goal's are more than enough) chew up the clock on the ground and then whatever means necessary, turn the football game over to the hands of the defense. Smith isn't a great QB, he's borderline good if that, but since this is Harbaugh's second season as 9'ers coach, one coach who takes all responsibility in Smith's turnaround from bust to borderline good, he'll get that chance to improve but he'll probably be on a short leash in the process entering the 2012 season. It wasn't Smith's fault and wasn't the reason why the 9'ers lost the NFC Championship game, but his very underwhelming performance showed why he is only borderline good, and in those types of games, not even good, is good enough.

[slucero]

Now I'm sure you'll come back and say, "BUT AIKMAN PLAYED IN THE NFL! HIS OPINION TRUMPS ALL!" That's fine--I guess every GM, coach, and scout who didn't get first-team reps for an NFL team must not be as qualified to evaluate players and film and draw conclusions. But anyway, this pretty clearly shows that at least one well-respected "expert" feels like I do about Smith.

Not at all.. but I'll take a QB's opinion over yours anyday... and you've quoted one "expert"... Cosell... so I guess we're even on quoting experts...

Aikman wound up surrounded with a solid coaching staff, a line, receivers and a running game...

Smith is entering his 2nd season with a solid coaching staff, a line, receivers and a running game...


I never posted Smith was good.. I posted that article because you assert Smith is bad... not taking into account the environment he had to try and succeed in... Aikman is an example of what happens when the environment is positive. Last year for Smith is also and example of that.

This year Smith has to deliver.

[Ehwmatt]

Now I'm sure you'll come back and say, "BUT AIKMAN PLAYED IN THE NFL! HIS OPINION TRUMPS ALL!" That's fine--I guess every GM, coach, and scout who didn't get first-team reps for an NFL team must not be as qualified to evaluate players and film and draw conclusions. But anyway, this pretty clearly shows that at least one well-respected "expert" feels like I do about Smith.

Not at all.. but I'll take a QB's opinion over yours anyday... and you've quoted one "expert"... Cosell... so I guess we're even on quoting experts...

Aikman wound up surrounded with a solid coaching staff, a line, receivers and a running game...

Smith is entering his 2nd season with a solid coaching staff, a line, receivers and a running game...


I never posted Smith was good.. I posted that article because you assert Smith is bad... not taking into account the environment he had to try and succeed in... Aikman is an example of what happens when the environment is positive. Last year for Smith is also and example of that.

This year Smith has to deliver.

I know the 9ers are your team dude, so I understand you getting defensive about Smith. I grew to love the 9ers last year too and I was really rooting for Peyton to go to SF (check the threads). I love the balanced approach Harbaugh takes and I love hearing in surround sound every brutal defensive hit your defense laid on opposing offenses.

But Smith just doesn't have it in my opinion. Troy Aikman can say what he wants--the fact of the matter is the guy also said Tony Romo is also better than he was (do you buy that?). And for the record, unless I'm mistaken, I never said he was "bad" in my recent memory on this thread. I said "I have serious doubts" about him meaning I have serious doubts about his ability to win a Super Bowl. I don't want it to seem like I'm splitting semantic hairs here, but mediocre and bad are two different things. As of last year, he's just incredibly mediocre... and the last 10 years of the league tell us you can't get to the promised land with a QB that's merely so:

The 49ers are going "all in" for sure for the short-term. The only problem is I have serious doubts about Alex Smith. But I love their team and philosophy. I think we will see a retrenchment from arena league-esque teams like the Packers and Saints who merely outgun their opponents in this so-called "passer's league." In their place, we'll see teams undoubtedly adhering to the "passer's league mentality," but I think the future successful teams will strike an eventual "balance" between more passing but still having hard-hitting defense and at least some semblance of a running game.

[Enigma869]

Everybody will remember those special teams gaffes, but if you watch the game again with an objective eye you can see that Smith completely tightened up in the second half. He was skipping footballs off the ground 3 yards in front of him on screens and short slant routes and just couldn't do ANYTHING. Hard to throw interceptions when the ball isn't even in the air. He just doesn't have the arm. The era of Trent Dilfer-caliber QBs winning the Super Bowl is long over.

I'm pretty sure John (Enigma) is as unimpressed with Smith as I am. John--care to chime in?

I'm not much of an Alex Smith fan. He won a playoff game that I didn't think he had any shot of winning (and he won that game on his own). That said, he's a JAG (just another guy). 19th in the league in passing yards and 17th in TD passes isn't good enough in a passing league. Running backs have become almost irrelevant in the NFL. Trent Dilfer's situation was a once in a lifetime occurrence. He just happened to be fortunate enough to land on a team with one of the most dominant defenses ever assembled. Hell, the guy was cut the second his team won the Super Bowl, so that should give you some indication how significant the Ravens thought Dilfer's role in that championship was. Smith (and most other QB's) could win a championship with an all-time dominant defense, but I'm not convinced the Niners are quite that good. It's been said that Smith has "improved" with each season. Perhaps. That said, he's never going to be an elite QB that a team should be build around. Also, he didn't really have any other direction to do in, given how much he sucked his first couple of years.

I don't buy that... and neither does Troy Aikman...

Alex Smith's career could've been far different
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1MR5HF.DTL
Eric Branch, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, January 19, 2012

In their second NFL seasons, 49ers quarterback Alex Smith had more yards, touchdowns and a higher quarterback rating than did Hall of Famer Troy Aikman.

After their second year in the league, however, circumstances changed dramatically for Smith and Aikman. And their divergent paths involved the same assistant coach.

In Aikman's case, the Cowboys hired Norv Turner as their offensive coordinator in 1991, and the struggling QB began a three-year run with Turner that included three Pro Bowls and two Super Bowl titles. For Smith, who prospered under Turner's guidance in 2006, his career began a steep descent after his offensive coordinator left San Francisco to become the Chargers' head coach.

Five years, three head coaches and five offensive coordinators later, Smith is on the doorstep of the Super Bowl and Aikman, a Fox analyst, will be in the broadcast booth Sunday when the Niners host the Giants in the NFC Championship Game at Candlestick Park.

Thanks to their shared relationship with Turner Aikman knows better than most how Smith's career trajectory could have been far different before 2011.

"Absolutely it could have been," said Aikman, who threw 20 touchdowns, 36 interceptions and had a 7-19 record as a starter in his first two seasons. "Absolutely. I know what Norv does for a quarterback and I know what he meant to my career. ...

"That's a big part of it is having a guy who really understands offense who is able to put you in the right position. Unfortunately for Alex, Norv was just there one season and then he moved on. You know, Brett Favre ran the same offense for 35 years or however long it was. There's something to be said for that."

Aikman noted that Smith's counterpart Sunday, the Giants' Eli Manning, has had far more stability during his eight-year career. Tom Coughlin has been Manning's only head coach. New York's fifth-year offensive coordinator, Kevin Gilbride, was Manning's position coach in his first three seasons.

For Smith, well, it's better late than never. His career has been resurrected thanks to the guidance of head coach Jim Harbaugh, who had a 15-year career as a quarterback in the NFL.

"Norv just understood," Aikman said. "He played (quarterback) in college, but without having played in the pros, he understood what that guy under center was dealing with. That's Jim Harbaugh and how he's been helpful to Alex in that regard. He's a head coach who played the position and knows how difficult the position is with the expectations and challenges."

Aikman expects Smith to continue improving under Harbaugh, noting Smith is only 27. However, he doesn't expect Smith to ever put up gaudy numbers in Harbaugh's offense, which leans heavily on the ground game.

Smith ranked 17th in the NFL in touchdowns (17) this season and 19th in yards (3,144). Aikman can relate. On offenses headlined by running back Emmitt Smith, he did not have a 4,000-yard season and threw for more than 19 touchdowns once in his 12-year career.

Aikman realized early that his career wouldn't be defined by stats, but by Super Bowls. For that reason, his only focus became winning, and he didn't tolerate teammates who didn't share his mind-set. Similarly, Smith has shrugged off questions regarding his so-so stats this season and repeatedly stated his focus is on wins and losses.

Now Smith is two wins away from sharing something else with Aikman besides their relationship with Turner.

"Right now, Alex is realizing the fruits of that; if you win, none of those other things really matter," Aikman said. "Ultimately, you get the credit and the recognition that you deserve when you win. I think at the quarterback position, if you just win, and make that a priority, the rest of it will take care of itself."

Sophomore years

Alex Smith had a better second season in the NFL than Troy Aikman. By his fourth season, however, Aikman led the Cowboys to a 13-3 record and a Super Bowl title. Smith, now in his seventh season, led the 49ers to a 13-3 record and the NFC title game. A look at Year 2 of their respective careers:

Your argument for Alex Smith is Troy Aikman? Really? A couple of points. First and foremost, Troy Aikman is probably the least talented QB to ever get into the HOF. All you need to know about Aikman is that if he didn't spend his career with GREAT teams, he never would have been elected to the HOF. In fact, if he won even one Super Bowl, he doesn't get in. The guy played with very solid receivers throughout his career, and was a pretty average player. That said, Smith isn't as good as Aikman was, based on what I've seen from him.

[mikemarrs]

I think it will be a very interesting and entertaining season up there in N.Y. as far as the Jets are concerned.The locker room will be like a war zone due to all the in fighting and bad vibes between a few of the players mainly on the offensive side of the ball.Santonio Holmes is doing nothing but bitching in every interview about things he does not like.Of course every player wants the ball thrown to them.Then you have Mark Sanchez who some guys on he team feel like is not a good enough leader.But don't forget you now have Tim Tebow who does not drink,smoke,cuss or swear around Rex Ryan who has four letter words coming out of his mouth constantly.If they all can get along and coexist they just might go far but if the chemistry goes bad in the locker room it could get really ugly quick.We very well probably will see a QB controversy sometime in 2012 in N.Y. with the Jets.

[mikemarrs]

I could be wrong but i think the Saints are about to hit hard times.They will always be decent as long as Drew Brees is QB but i get the feeling all this extra stuff with Sean Payton not being able to coach and the other people in different positions and jobs who were also disciplined or caught in the net as far as the bountygate thing is concerned.I just get the feeling all that stuff is going to affect this team in the long run and its not going to be good.I think in the NFC South the tide will change and i predict the Carolina Panthers and Ron Rivera will field a winning team in 2012.Most people might think i'm crazy or don't see it but i think the division this year will be a fight between Carolina and Atlanta.The Panthers were 6-10 last season but lost two games by a field goal,one game by five points,three games by a touchdown and so thats six games where they were within striking distance of winning and the main problem there was a bad defense.Ron Rivera the Panthers head coach is a defensive mastermind so they should have the defense fixed before long anyway.I think Cam Newton will lead the Panthers to a winning season in 2012.They have a good two headed running attack too in addition to Newton plus Steve Smith and some solid tight ends so the main thing to fix like i said is the defense.

[Enigma869]

I could be wrong but i think the Saints are about to hit hard times.

I couldn't disagree more. The formula for success in the NFL has been the same forever. If you have an elite QB (and Brees is definitely elite), you will never hit hard times, even with Mickey Mouse as your head coach!

[YoungJRNY]

This is just downright fucking awful (even though it's common talk) it still is critical in this whole scandal. Bye bye, Gregg Williams. Fuckin' creep talkin about taking heads off, tearing ACL's and rupturing ankles before his last game against the 49'ers with the Saints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... hnn9kbqQUA

[mikemarrs]

This is just downright fucking awful (even though it's common talk) it still is critical in this whole scandal. Bye bye, Gregg Williams. Fuckin' creep talkin about taking heads off, tearing ACL's and rupturing ankles before his last game against the 49'ers with the Saints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... hnn9kbqQUA

Yeah he can kiss his NFL career goodbye.Good riddance

[mikemarrs]

I could be wrong but i think the Saints are about to hit hard times.

I couldn't disagree more. The formula for success in the NFL has been the same forever. If you have an elite QB (and Brees is definitely elite), you will never hit hard times, even with Mickey Mouse as your head coach!

Yeah i think as long as they have Brees they will still win games but i do think that all of the things that have happened could have a negative affect overall.I don't think they will be as good heading into the future as they have the past half decade or so.

[Enigma869]

This is just downright fucking awful (even though it's common talk) it still is critical in this whole scandal. Bye bye, Gregg Williams. Fuckin' creep talkin about taking heads off, tearing ACL's and rupturing ankles before his last game against the 49'ers with the Saints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... hnn9kbqQUA

While it comes across as reprehensible, this stuff has been going on FOREVER in the NFL. Just because you're team hasn't been caught, doesn't mean that they're not doing all the same shit that some fans are appalled by!

[YoungJRNY]

This is just downright fucking awful (even though it's common talk) it still is critical in this whole scandal. Bye bye, Gregg Williams. Fuckin' creep talkin about taking heads off, tearing ACL's and rupturing ankles before his last game against the 49'ers with the Saints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... hnn9kbqQUA

While it comes across as reprehensible, this stuff has been going on FOREVER in the NFL. Just because you're team hasn't been caught, doesn't mean that they're not doing all the same shit that some fans are appalled by!

Football is a violent game & dirty game, even playing by the rules. Goodell's NFL has drivin me cukoocukoo because that element of the game will never change and the aggressive play and vicious mentality of football players will never go away givin' a player psyche & that's the part he's trying to take away. Players have always played within their contracts and locker room money has been thrown around to whoever makes a big play in the football game whether it be a fumble, an interception or sack in a defensive locker room, but when you hear a coach, who has been warned time and time again, to literally go after and headhunt a specific player who is coming off a concussion or talking about destroying the outside of ACL's, then that's a different story altogether. Things may have been going on forever in football, but that kind of dirtiness is about to change.

[slucero]

Your argument for Alex Smith is Troy Aikman? Really? A couple of points. First and foremost, Troy Aikman is probably the least talented QB to ever get into the HOF. All you need to know about Aikman is that if he didn't spend his career with GREAT teams, he never would have been elected to the HOF. In fact, if he won even one Super Bowl, he doesn't get in. The guy played with very solid receivers throughout his career, and was a pretty average player.

And yet... only Bradshaw (4-0), Montana (4-0), and Aikman (3-0), have 3 or more SB wins... and not bad for an "average' QB considering they lead this list of HOF QBs who played in the SB... pretty rarified air...


Bart Starr (2-0)
Bob Griese (2-1)
Roger Staubach (2-2)
John Elway (2-3)
Len Dawson (1-1)
Fran Tarkenton (0-3)
Jim Kelly (0-4)

That said, Smith isn't as good as Aikman was, based on what I've seen from him.

So what yer saying is that Aikman really didn't need to be that good since he had a great team behind him... hmmm sounds sorta familiar..

The article is not comparing Smith to Aikmans whole career... just Aikman in the 2nd year after getting a real coach behind him.. as you said... AIkamn was an average player, surrounded by a great team.

Smith, who you consider an average player, is now surrounded by a great coaching staff, and team.

Sorta like Aikman...

[AR]

Keep in mind NFL Championships before the Super Bowl in this discussion. Major League Baseball doesn't pretend they started in 1966.