with Rascal Flatts

[Ehwmatt]

For business purposes, and specifically with Journey... the band has ALWAYS been a corporation.. it's how Herbie structured the band in the beginning.

This has been KNOWN for over 30 years...

Because they are a corporation.. All the members have to have employment contracts defining their status as shareholders in the corporation. It's the LAW. Each shareholders OWNS a percentage of the corporation, defined by the number of shares they are allotted. When a member leaves the band, for whatever reason, his shares must be bought out, at a price that was pre-defined OR is negotiated at the time of departure.

• It's why Perry had to be bought out, as part of the buyout agreement, none of the other "oweners" could say anything disparaging about each other.. until the agreement expired.
• It's why Augeri had to be bought out, and likely can not disparage the band as part of the buyout agreement.
• It's why JSS had to be bought out, and likely can not disparage the band as part of the buyout agreement.

They were all "permanent" members...

Non-shareholders are effectively only "employees" (hired guns)... they have no voting rights, and no band ownership... and can be fired at anytime... for any reason.



If Arnel does not own shares in the Journey corporation.. then he is only a contract employee.


clear now?"

How do you know that Journey still operates that way? Or that the singers that came after Perry were not just considered employees? If Journey operates as a Corporation still, then I would not be surprised if Schon, Cain, and Valory (possibly Deen also) were the only "share-holders" and the singers post Perry were all just hired-guns. This might also play into the fact of why singers post Perry have had very little creative or writing input in the songs. Employees can have gag orders and non-disclosure agreements placed on them too. Plus a little severance ("buy-out") encourages tight lips.

I have little doubt that if Journey has competent legal representation, they are hiring guys like Augeri, Soto, and Arnel on an "employee" basis. I would never hazard a guess on what terms are included in the employment agreements (such as possible severance/discharge terms), but just because someone is hired and introduced as a "permanent" member doesn't mean they are anything more than mere employees. Just because someone is legally a mere "employee" does not necessarily mean they are "at-will" employees. Look no further than contracts in another entertainment industry, the sports industry. You can have a definite-term employment contract and not be anything but just that: an employee. Why in the world would they allow these other guys membership/ownership stake in their "firm," especially knowing what they know about the way their catalog shreds singers?

BTW, if I had to guess, I would guess that Journey is organized as an LLC or (possibly) a limited liability partnership, not a corporation. It wouldn't make much sense for a band to incorporate given the variety of pass-through business entities available today (that weren't available when the band was first formed). Schon, Cain, and Valory would probably be members, and Deen and the revolving singers would be employees.

[slucero]

For business purposes, and specifically with Journey... the band has ALWAYS been a corporation.. it's how Herbie structured the band in the beginning.

This has been KNOWN for over 30 years...

Because they are a corporation.. All the members have to have employment contracts defining their status as shareholders in the corporation. It's the LAW. Each shareholders OWNS a percentage of the corporation, defined by the number of shares they are allotted. When a member leaves the band, for whatever reason, his shares must be bought out, at a price that was pre-defined OR is negotiated at the time of departure.

• It's why Perry had to be bought out, as part of the buyout agreement, none of the other "oweners" could say anything disparaging about each other.. until the agreement expired.
• It's why Augeri had to be bought out, and likely can not disparage the band as part of the buyout agreement.
• It's why JSS had to be bought out, and likely can not disparage the band as part of the buyout agreement.

They were all "permanent" members...

Non-shareholders are effectively only "employees" (hired guns)... they have no voting rights, and no band ownership... and can be fired at anytime... for any reason.



If Arnel does not own shares in the Journey corporation.. then he is only a contract employee.


clear now?"

How do you know that Journey still operates that way? Or that the singers that came after Perry were not just considered employees? If Journey operates as a Corporation still, then I would not be surprised if Schon, Cain, and Valory (possibly Deen also) were the only "share-holders" and the singers post Perry were all just hired-guns. This might also play into the fact of why singers post Perry have had very little creative or writing input in the songs. Employees can have gag orders and non-disclosure agreements placed on them too. Plus a little severance ("buy-out") encourages tight lips.

I have little doubt that if Journey has competent legal representation, they are hiring guys like Augeri, Soto, and Arnel on an "employee" basis. I would never hazard a guess on what terms are included in the employment agreements (such as possible severance/discharge terms), but just because someone is hired and introduced as a "permanent" member doesn't mean they are anything more than mere employees. Just because someone is legally a mere "employee" does not necessarily mean they are "at-will" employees. Look no further than contracts in another entertainment industry, the sports industry. You can have a definite-term employment contract and not be anything but just that: an employee. Why in the world would they allow these other guys membership/ownership stake in their "firm," especially knowing what they know about the way their catalog shreds singers?

BTW, if I had to guess, I would guess that Journey is organized as an LLC or (possibly) a limited liability partnership, not a corporation. It wouldn't make much sense for a band to incorporate given the variety of pass-through business entities available today (that weren't available when the band was first formed). Schon, Cain, and Valory would probably be members, and Deen and the revolving singers would be employees.

Spot on.

Herbie talked about how he incorporated Journey when they started farming out their trucking, sound, and lighting rigs...

[Don]

It has been posted somewhere that Arnel is a full share member of the band. I'm sure that doesn't include sales of any legacy material.

I'm sure Neal said that also. What he didn't say though what % share Pineda gets. Also, Arnel has said as recently as last year that he still gets paid upfront for everything, so that sounds a bit a different then a full share employee, more like a contract employee if anything.
As far as the Legacy stuff is concerned, Deen and Arnel are out. The re-records were supposedly gonna be a way to get those guys some legacy money but no dice. Any licensing seems to go directly through Columbia and even if it didn't the songwriters would have to give approval anyway. Jon said Perry has been very good about licensing the last few years but I don't think he will ever authorize anything he wrote with Arnel's vocals on it. Could anyone blame him though? Basically, Smitty gets something out of that too when they use the originals. If they used the re-records, Perry would still get his payment for writing but Steve Smith would lose out on the mechanical royalty there so definitely not something he wants to see either.

[Don]

[
I have little doubt that if Journey has competent legal representation, they are hiring guys like Augeri, Soto, and Arnel on an "employee" basis. I would never hazard a guess on what terms are included in the employment agreements (such as possible severance/discharge terms), but just because someone is hired and introduced as a "permanent" member doesn't mean they are anything more than mere employees. Just because someone is legally a mere "employee" does not necessarily mean they are "at-will" employees. Look no further than contracts in another entertainment industry, the sports industry. You can have a definite-term employment contract and not be anything but just that: an employee. Why in the world would they allow these other guys membership/ownership stake in their "firm," especially knowing what they know about the way their catalog shreds singers?

BTW, if I had to guess, I would guess that Journey is organized as an LLC or (possibly) a limited liability partnership, not a corporation. It wouldn't make much sense for a band to incorporate given the variety of pass-through business entities available today (that weren't available when the band was first formed). Schon, Cain, and Valory would probably be members, and Deen and the revolving singers would be employees.

[Ehwmatt]

[
I have little doubt that if Journey has competent legal representation, they are hiring guys like Augeri, Soto, and Arnel on an "employee" basis. I would never hazard a guess on what terms are included in the employment agreements (such as possible severance/discharge terms), but just because someone is hired and introduced as a "permanent" member doesn't mean they are anything more than mere employees. Just because someone is legally a mere "employee" does not necessarily mean they are "at-will" employees. Look no further than contracts in another entertainment industry, the sports industry. You can have a definite-term employment contract and not be anything but just that: an employee. Why in the world would they allow these other guys membership/ownership stake in their "firm," especially knowing what they know about the way their catalog shreds singers?

BTW, if I had to guess, I would guess that Journey is organized as an LLC or (possibly) a limited liability partnership, not a corporation. It wouldn't make much sense for a band to incorporate given the variety of pass-through business entities available today (that weren't available when the band was first formed). Schon, Cain, and Valory would probably be members, and Deen and the revolving singers would be employees.

Just got out my Revelation CD to check that myself.

Go and check it out for yourself:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/cbs.aspx

Check Limited Liability Company and type in Nomota.

And look at the Date Filed: May 14, 1998. Hmm! Sounds like a transitional time in the band's history, huh?

[AR]

The bio jumps from Augeri leaving in 2006 to Neal surfing the internet for singers. No Def Leppard, no JSS, no Jeremey (despite him having a hand on NWA) the bio is just blank over those 18 months.

So what do you think the reason for the bio jumping like that is?

Because it does the band no good and would just lead to the class action lawsuit I want to file over the faked concerts I paid to see.

Start putting Soto in the bio and that is what it leads to.

Clear enough now?

[steveo777]

Cain, Schon and Valory are the managing members of Nomota, LLC.

Deen and Arnel are not officers, but hired help.

[Ehwmatt]

Cain, Schon and Valory are the managing members of Nomota, LLC.

Deen and Arnel are not officers, but hired help.

Wait, you posted earlier that Arnel is a "full share member" of the band. Where are you getting your info, and which one is correct?

[steveo777]

Cain, Schon and Valory are the managing members of Nomota, LLC.

Deen and Arnel are not officers, but hired help.

Wait, you posted earlier that Arnel is a "full share member" of the band. Where are you getting your info, and which one is correct?

Someone posted that AP was a full member of the band and I can't remember where I read it. It might have been on Journeymusic.

Snooping around the internet revealed the rest of the info and if we drill down a bit more we find that it is not Neal's band, but Cain's.
He is the president of Nomota.

[Ehwmatt]

Cain, Schon and Valory are the managing members of Nomota, LLC.

Deen and Arnel are not officers, but hired help.

Wait, you posted earlier that Arnel is a "full share member" of the band. Where are you getting your info, and which one is correct?

Someone posted that AP was a full member of the band and I can't remember where I read it. It might have been on Journeymusic.

Snooping around the internet revealed the rest of the info and if we drill down a bit more we find that it is not Neal's band, but Cain's.
He is the president of Nomota.

Well, that's probably not entirely true. By default, titles are irrelevant in an LLC. The default rule is members "run" the LLC in proportion to their capital contributions. But that can be freely varied by the LLC's operating agreement. I'd be stunned if at least Cain and Schon don't share equal levels of control in the band, either via equal capital contributions under the default rule or via the operating agreement.

Are we 100% sure Nomota is the entity the band itself operates under? Or could that be their little recording label? Either way, I remain fairly certain the band would be organized as an LLC or some other pass-through limited liability entity, rather than a corporation.

[steveo777]

Don probably knows all of it but is waiting for the rest of us to continue taking our wild stabs at it.

[Don]

Cain, Schon and Valory are the managing members of Nomota, LLC.

Deen and Arnel are not officers, but hired help.

Wait, you posted earlier that Arnel is a "full share member" of the band. Where are you getting your info, and which one is correct?

Someone posted that AP was a full member of the band and I can't remember where I read it. It might have been on Journeymusic.

Snooping around the internet revealed the rest of the info and if we drill down a bit more we find that it is not Neal's band, but Cain's.
He is the president of Nomota.

Well, that's probably not entirely true. By default, titles are irrelevant in an LLC. The default rule is members "run" the LLC in proportion to their capital contributions. But that can be freely varied by the LLC's operating agreement. I'd be stunned if at least Cain and Schon don't share equal levels of control in the band, either via equal capital contributions under the default rule or via the operating agreement.

Are we 100% sure Nomota is the entity the band itself operates under? Or could that be their little recording label? Either way, I remain fairly certain the band would be organized as an LLC or some other pass-through limited liability entity, rather than a corporation.

Well as far as the band's concerned, technically its Nomota LLC dba Journey, with Journey being the fictitious business name of the LLC.

[Don]

[
I have little doubt that if Journey has competent legal representation, they are hiring guys like Augeri, Soto, and Arnel on an "employee" basis. I would never hazard a guess on what terms are included in the employment agreements (such as possible severance/discharge terms), but just because someone is hired and introduced as a "permanent" member doesn't mean they are anything more than mere employees. Just because someone is legally a mere "employee" does not necessarily mean they are "at-will" employees. Look no further than contracts in another entertainment industry, the sports industry. You can have a definite-term employment contract and not be anything but just that: an employee. Why in the world would they allow these other guys membership/ownership stake in their "firm," especially knowing what they know about the way their catalog shreds singers?

BTW, if I had to guess, I would guess that Journey is organized as an LLC or (possibly) a limited liability partnership, not a corporation. It wouldn't make much sense for a band to incorporate given the variety of pass-through business entities available today (that weren't available when the band was first formed). Schon, Cain, and Valory would probably be members, and Deen and the revolving singers would be employees.

Just got out my Revelation CD to check that myself.

Go and check it out for yourself:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/cbs.aspx

Check Limited Liability Company and type in Nomota.

And look at the Date Filed: May 14, 1998. Hmm! Sounds like a transitional time in the band's history, huh?

I show the date of the company as 2004 but that could be when they added the dba Journey as that would be a little bit after Sony dropped the band.

[AR]

SA is still getting paid from what I know.

[S2M]

The performance is strained, and amateurish. Dude has been playing in front of audiences for years now. The 'nervous' excuse doesn't cut it. There are only TWO types of Journey fans now(other than SP -era fans) a.) Philipino homers, and B.) fans that think that having a Journey is better than not having one at all, and put up with the substandard efforts. PLUS, it's an excuse to get together and get shitfaced. Fact is, their legacy is irreversably ruined. Neal & Jon have run this thing in the ground.

Eclipse is a COMPLETE embarassment, and Arnel is a karaoke singer. It was a travesty to release this under the Journey moniker.

[strangegrey]

BTW, if I had to guess, I would guess that Journey is organized as an LLC or (possibly) a limited liability partnership, not a corporation. It wouldn't make much sense for a band to incorporate given the variety of pass-through business entities available today (that weren't available when the band was first formed). Schon, Cain, and Valory would probably be members, and Deen and the revolving singers would be employees.

Cut the shit counselor, now you're just showing off!

[AR]

The performance is strained, and amateurish. Dude has been playing in front of audiences for years now. The 'nervous' excuse doesn't cut it. There are only TWO types of Journey fans now(other than SP -era fans) a.) Philipino homers, and B.) fans that think that having a Journey is better than not having one at all, and put up with the substandard efforts. PLUS, it's an excuse to get together and get shitfaced. Fact is, their legacy is irreversably ruined. Neal & Jon have run this thing in the ground.

Eclipse is a COMPLETE embarassment, and Arnel is a karaoke singer. It was a travesty to release this under the Journey moniker.

We do have to discuss more football this year if you retain that signature. Just noticed that.

[Eric]

The performance is strained, and amateurish. Dude has been playing in front of audiences for years now. The 'nervous' excuse doesn't cut it. There are only TWO types of Journey fans now(other than SP -era fans) a.) Philipino homers, and B.) fans that think that having a Journey is better than not having one at all, and put up with the substandard efforts. PLUS, it's an excuse to get together and get shitfaced. Fact is, their legacy is irreversably ruined. Neal & Jon have run this thing in the ground.

Eclipse is a COMPLETE embarassment, and Arnel is a karaoke singer. It was a travesty to release this under the Journey moniker.

One of my favorite albums. Still fresh a year later. Nice agenda, though.

[steveo777]

The performance is strained, and amateurish. Dude has been playing in front of audiences for years now. The 'nervous' excuse doesn't cut it. There are only TWO types of Journey fans now(other than SP -era fans) a.) Philipino homers, and B.) fans that think that having a Journey is better than not having one at all, and put up with the substandard efforts. PLUS, it's an excuse to get together and get shitfaced. Fact is, their legacy is irreversably ruined. Neal & Jon have run this thing in the ground.

Eclipse is a COMPLETE embarassment, and Arnel is a karaoke singer. It was a travesty to release this under the Journey moniker.

MR Extremist!

[artist4perry]

Is Back Talk even around anymore??

On this forum daily.

[Liam]

Have the freedom to say shit like...well...shit here. I got banned for less.

[Andrew]

SA is still getting paid from what I know.

I don't believe that to be the case.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Today was such a better day than yesterday, got all of my work done in the office today. I only spent 1/500ths of my day entertaining my curiousity with on-line BS.

Never the less, nothing in the article (including comments) below is of any surprise to me. What is a surprise however is the fact that not one single soul posting on this thread mentioned any of the quotes by Journey members that are documented in this article. All the comments by the Journey members provided by this article below, spells out: "One Time Touring Musician” for Journey

Additionally, I ran across this little tidbit: "Jeff Scott Soto is on tour with a Queen tribute band going by the name of "Queen Extravaganza".

So........Now for the twenty five thousand dollar question..... What in the world is JSS doing now with all of that “talent”, singing in a tribute band while the real deal band Queen could use a perminent lead vocalist?

http://heavymetaladdiction.com/2007/06/ ... ey-singer/

Jeff Scott Soto no longer Journey singer!
Posted: June 13, 2007 in Metal News & Commentary

From Andrew at Melodicrock.com:

JOURNEY ANNOUNCES DEPARTURE OF JEFF SCOTT SOTO:
Press Release / June 12, 2007 — Journey has parted ways with their recently named lead singer Jeff Scott Soto. Jeff s first appearance with Journey was July 7, 2006 in Bristow, VA. He had been filling in for Steve Augeri, who had to leave the tour shortly after it began on June 23 due to illness. Jeff s last performance was May 12, 2007 in Leesburg, VA.

According to guitarist Neal Schon, “We appreciate all of Jeff s hard work and we can t thank him enough for stepping in when Steve Augeri got sick last year. He did a tremendous job for us and we wish him the best. We’ve just decided to go our separate ways, no pun intended. We re plotting our next move now.”
Keyboardist Jonathan Cain continues, “We were lucky to have a friend who was already a Journey fan step in on a moment s notice during the Def Leppard tour to help us out. Jeff was always the consummate professional and we hope that he remains a friend of the band in the future. We just felt it was time to go in a different direction.”

Journey–Neal Schon (guitar), Ross Valory (bass), Jonathan Cain (keyboards) and Deen Castronovo (drums) is taking the rest of 2007 off to spend time with their families, write new songs and map out plans for 2008. WebLink: www.journeymusic.com

Cheers!

[slucero]

Today was such a better day than yesterday, got all of my work done in the office today. I only spent 1/500ths of my day entertaining my curiousity with on-line BS.

Never the less, nothing in the article (including comments) below is of any surprise to me. What is a surprise however is the fact that not one single soul posting on this thread mentioned any of the quotes by Journey members that are documented in this article. All the comments by the Journey members provided by this article below, spells out: "One Time Touring Musician.”

Additionally, I ran across this little tidbit: "Jeff Scott Soto is on tour with a Queen tribute band going by the name of "Queen Extravaganza".

So........Now for the twenty five thousand dollar question..... What in the world is JSS doing now with all of that “talent”, singing in a tribute band while the real deal Queen could use a perminent lead vocalist?

actually it spells nothing but JC and NS saying nice things... how you interpret it is something else...


Roger Taylor (of Queen) personally asked Jeff to join...


and now yer just baiting people... like a troll...

[Andrew]

So........Now for the twenty five thousand dollar question..... What in the world is JSS doing now with all of that “talent”, singing in a tribute band while the real deal band Queen could use a perminent lead vocalist?

1. Journey thru JSS under the bus.

2. Jeff's now doing what he wants and loving it.

3. You are fast rocketing up my shit list for annoying posters.

[The Sushi Hunter]

How about the information provided in that link? Anything else you'd like to add to that? Operation "cut & paste"? I'm not looking for "nice things" I'm looking for facts that lay out without a doubt the relationship between JSS and Journey.

Spells out: "One Time Touring Musician” for the band.

Today was such a better day than yesterday, got all of my work done in the office today. I only spent 1/500ths of my day entertaining my curiousity with on-line BS.

Never the less, nothing in the article (including comments) below is of any surprise to me. What is a surprise however is the fact that not one single soul posting on this thread mentioned any of the quotes by Journey members that are documented in this article. All the comments by the Journey members provided by this article below, spells out: "One Time Touring Musician.”

Additionally, I ran across this little tidbit: "Jeff Scott Soto is on tour with a Queen tribute band going by the name of "Queen Extravaganza".

So........Now for the twenty five thousand dollar question..... What in the world is JSS doing now with all of that “talent”, singing in a tribute band while the real deal Queen could use a perminent lead vocalist?

actually it spells nothing but JC and NS saying nice things... how you interpret it is something else...


Roger Taylor (of Queen) personally asked Jeff to join...


and now yer just baiting people... like a troll...

[The_Noble_Cause]

One of my favorite albums. Still fresh a year later. Nice agenda, though.

Yea, listened to it the other weekend on a long drive. Lots of diversity. Up there with Frontiers and Arrival.

[steveo777]

One of my favorite albums. Still fresh a year later. Nice agenda, though.

Yea, listened to it the other weekend on a long drive. Lots of diversity. Up there with Frontiers and Arrival.

Yeah, just because someone doesn't like an album personally, does not make it a shit album, or Pineda a bad singer. The album is still solid for me. Poorly promoted, sadly.

[Andrew]

Spells out: "One Time Touring Musician” for the band.

Cause that's what he WAS FFS. Toured with the band one year, signed on and announced as a full member, but never got to the recording phase before being thrown under the bus. Now please stop. Seriously.

[slucero]

How about the information provided in that link? Anything else you'd like to add to that? Operation "cut & paste"? I'm not looking for "nice things" I'm looking for facts that lay out without a doubt the relationship between JSS and Journey.

Spells out: "One Time Touring Musician” for the band.

Today was such a better day than yesterday, got all of my work done in the office today. I only spent 1/500ths of my day entertaining my curiousity with on-line BS.

Never the less, nothing in the article (including comments) below is of any surprise to me. What is a surprise however is the fact that not one single soul posting on this thread mentioned any of the quotes by Journey members that are documented in this article. All the comments by the Journey members provided by this article below, spells out: "One Time Touring Musician.”

Additionally, I ran across this little tidbit: "Jeff Scott Soto is on tour with a Queen tribute band going by the name of "Queen Extravaganza".

So........Now for the twenty five thousand dollar question..... What in the world is JSS doing now with all of that “talent”, singing in a tribute band while the real deal Queen could use a perminent lead vocalist?

actually it spells nothing but JC and NS saying nice things... how you interpret it is something else...


Roger Taylor (of Queen) personally asked Jeff to join...


and now yer just baiting people... like a troll...

you cut & paste a link and call me out... lmao...

from your "link".....

According to guitarist Neal Schon, “We appreciate all of Jeff s hard work and we can t thank him enough for stepping in when Steve Augeri got sick last year. He did a tremendous job for us and we wish him the best. We’ve just decided to go our separate ways, no pun intended. We re plotting our next move now.”

Keyboardist Jonathan Cain continues, “We were lucky to have a friend who was already a Journey fan step in on a moment s notice during the Def Leppard tour to help us out. Jeff was always the consummate professional and we hope that he remains a friend of the band in the future. We just felt it was time to go in a different direction.”

NS and JC are being very appreciative... you're simply stirring shit with no spoon..

You want to discount Schon actually stating that Jeff was a permanent member, yet want "facts"... lmao... make up your mind, dipshit..

I recall a post in Marcels blog regarding a confidentiality agreement, which would preclude Jeff coming in here and setting you straight... which he wouldn't do anyways...

but you knew that already didn't you Einstein..