8 wounded at Empire State Building, 2 dead after coworker

[slucero]

Sushi... try reading what is posted..... and please quote and post your sources..

Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/n ... ?hpt=hp_t1

New York (CNN) -- On a busy Friday morning in Manhattan, nine pedestrians suffered bullet or fragment wounds after police unleashed a hail of gunfire at a man wielding a .45 caliber pistol who had just killed a former co-worker.

The officers unloaded 16 rounds in the shadow of the Empire State Building at a disgruntled former apparel designer, killing him after he engaged in a gunbattle with police, authorities said.

Three passersby sustained direct gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments, according to New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. All injuries were caused by police, he said Saturday.

One officer shot nine rounds and another shot seven.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... city_.html


UPDATE #10: All nine people who suffered gunshot wounds outside the Empire State Buiding Friday morning were hit by police gunfire, Police Commsisione Raymond W. Kelly said Saturday. Citing ballistics evidence, Kelly said that it looks like three of the nine bystanders were hit with bullets, while the rest were “struck with fragments of some sort,” reports the New York Times. Three of the victims remained hospitalized Saturday but were in stable condition.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 29977.html

Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times, and Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol.

The volley of gunfire felled Johnson in just a few seconds and left nine other people bleeding on the sidewalk.

In the initial chaos Friday, it wasn't clear whether Johnson or the officers were responsible for the trail of the wounded, but based on ballistic and other evidence, "it appears that all nine of the victims were struck either by fragments or by bullets fired by police," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly told reporters Saturday at a community event in Harlem.

Police officials have said the officers appeared to have no choice but to shoot Johnson, whose body had 10 bullet wounds in the chest, arms and legs.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I have a number of close friends who I’ve known back to the years of my military career who are currently or who have been in law enforcement after separating from the military, and because of that I have dialog with others who I met through my friends who are also in law enforcement, in both Texas and some parts of California, and none of them carry a 9MM as their service weapon, only .40 and .45’s.

That's fine, but there are no pistols approved for use by the NYPD in either of those two calibers. Only 9mm.

That's too bad. I do have a question though. The report I read has a total of 10 bullet holes in the guy, 16 total shots fired by NYPD, and 9 bystanders hit. If that is accurate where the bad guy was hit 10 times out of 16, that would leave 6 rounds that did not hit the guy, yet 9 bystanders were hit. What do you make of that, assuming that none of the bullets that hit the guy exited him and then hit others? Do you suppose the report is incorrect in regards to how many shots were fired by the police?

[Archetype]

I have a number of close friends who I’ve known back to the years of my military career who are currently or who have been in law enforcement after separating from the military, and because of that I have dialog with others who I met through my friends who are also in law enforcement, in both Texas and some parts of California, and none of them carry a 9MM as their service weapon, only .40 and .45’s.

That's fine, but there are no pistols approved for use by the NYPD in either of those two calibers. Only 9mm.

That's too bad. I do have a question though. The report I read has a total of 10 bullet holes in the guy, 16 total shots fired by NYPD, and 9 bystanders hit. If that is accurate where the bad guy was hit 10 times out of 16, that would leave 6 rounds that did not hit the guy, yet 9 bystanders were hit. What do you make of that, assuming that none of the bullets that hit the guy exited him and then hit others? Do you suppose the report is incorrect in regards to how many shots were fired by the police?

I'd be interested in knowing the locations of those ten hits. Undoubtedly, a 9mm hollow point will pass through if it only grazes someone. That would point to poor shot placement on the part of the police involved. Yes, of course, there is definitely the chance that more shots were fired than reported. Standard training for these situations is, believe it or not, to fire until the magazine is empty. (Hence you always hear of people being shot 20-80 times by police. Take this video for example: They shot this guy 46 times ) Emptying the magazine is to compensate for the fact that police, by and large, are pretty terrible marksmen. They qualify twice a year and very few of them do any shooting beyond that. I shoot almost every weekend. You're safer with me armed on the street than the vast majority of police officers.

The reports do confirm that three people were directly hit by police bullets. Those shots didn't pass through anyone or ricochet off of anything. They went straight from the muzzle of the officers' pistols to the bodies of 3 innocent people. If a normal citizen was carrying a concealed handgun and hit three innocent people while killing a threat to their being, they would undoubtedly end up on the receiving end of some huge lawsuits and probably do some jail time, in addition to tens of thousands in legal fees and court costs. This incident definitely takes a lot of the wind out of the "only police should have guns" argument. Police are just as prone to shooting innocent civilians in these types of situations as armed private citizens. This is one of many cases where this has been proven. The bad part is that these police will probably never have to suffer any consequences for their terrible situation awareness and awful muzzle discipline. If it was two private citizens who took this shooter out, wounding many others in the process, their lives would essentially be over.

[slucero]

its NYC.. you can bet there's lawyers chomping at the bit to sue the NYPD....

[Archetype]

Check out these cops. Definitely living proof that only cops should have guns.

LAPD officers slam cuffed woman to the ground

[Rick]

Check out these cops. Definitely living proof that only cops should have guns.

LAPD officers slam cuffed woman to the ground

Something was edited out of that video. Probably a struggle the woman put up. But the media wants to make this thing as big as possible, and only for ratings. With that being said, I still think it was excessive force, and the officers should be punished.

[Archetype]

Check out these cops. Definitely living proof that only cops should have guns.

LAPD officers slam cuffed woman to the ground

Something was edited out of that video. Probably a struggle the woman put up. But the media wants to make this thing as big as possible, and only for ratings. With that being said, I still think it was excessive force, and the officers should be punished.

Whatever she may or may not have done before, that slam took place when she was secured and cuffed. Imagine if the cops got called to someone's house for a domestic dispute and the woman looked like that. The perpetrator would never own a gun again; let alone carry one in public every day. Those cops need to be out of a job yesterday.

[Rick]

Check out these cops. Definitely living proof that only cops should have guns.

LAPD officers slam cuffed woman to the ground

Something was edited out of that video. Probably a struggle the woman put up. But the media wants to make this thing as big as possible, and only for ratings. With that being said, I still think it was excessive force, and the officers should be punished.

Whatever she may or may not have done before, that slam took place when she was secured and cuffed. Imagine if the cops got called to someone's house for a domestic dispute and the woman looked like that. The perpetrator would never own a gun again; let alone carry one in public every day. Those cops need to be out of a job yesterday.

Very true. As far as their jobs are concerned, they definitely need to be doing something else. I hate to see anyone lose their job because of the innocents that depend on that person's paycheck.

[SF-Dano]

Check out these cops. Definitely living proof that only cops should have guns.

LAPD officers slam cuffed woman to the ground

Something was edited out of that video. Probably a struggle the woman put up. But the media wants to make this thing as big as possible, and only for ratings. With that being said, I still think it was excessive force, and the officers should be punished.

Whatever she may or may not have done before, that slam took place when she was secured and cuffed. Imagine if the cops got called to someone's house for a domestic dispute and the woman looked like that. The perpetrator would never own a gun again; let alone carry one in public every day. Those cops need to be out of a job yesterday.

Very true. As far as their jobs are concerned, they definitely need to be doing something else. I hate to see anyone lose their job because of the innocents that depend on that person's paycheck.

Hard to be sure from the grainy video, but it appears that the older of the two cops (22yr veteran per the story) was the one who through the woman down both times. I know we aren't seeing or hearing all that went down, but this is just inexcusable.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I'm sure that all of the bystanders who were wounded will be compensated for all of their medical bills, loss of wages, pain and suffering, etc. In a situation like this the difference between the cops accidentally shooting someone and a citizen accidentally shooting someone is the cops did so in the line of duty. As for where the bullets ended up hitting the bad guy, there are more factors involved with this as well. Was he a moving target? Was he darting through people, etc, etc. The cops killed him and only him and did so in a very reasonable amount of time so I would say they did well under the circumstances. I'm very interested to learn what type of weapons and ammo the NYPD involved was using.

Pathetic how all of you focus only on the NYPD as the only fault and not the bad guy who came out with a gun and shot his ex-coworker to death on a crowded city street.

[slucero]

I'm sure that all of the bystanders who were wounded will be compensated for all of their medical bills, loss of wages, pain and suffering, etc. In a situation like this the difference between the cops accidentally shooting someone and a citizen accidentally shooting someone is the cops did so in the line of duty. As for where the bullets ended up hitting the bad guy, there are more factors involved with this as well. Was he a moving target? Was he darting through people, etc, etc. The cops killed him and only him and did so in a very reasonable amount of time so I would say they did well under the circumstances. I'm very interested to learn what type of weapons and ammo the NYPD involved was using.

Pathetic how all of you focus only on the NYPD as the only fault and not the bad guy who came out with a gun and shot his ex-coworker to death on a crowded city street.

Nobody is absolving the bad guy you fucking retard. We just aren't sucking the NYPD's cocks like you are..


What is pathetic is you not being able to get your facts straight.



FACT - the "bad guy" shot and killed his former boss.

FACT - he drew his weapon and pointed it at the police.

FACT - HE NEVER FIRED.

FACT - The police fired 16 shots, striking the "bad guy' 10 times.

FACT - 3 of those police shots hit bystanders directly.

FACT - 6 of those police shots hit bystanders indirectly.

[Archetype]

I'm very interested to learn what type of weapons and ammo the NYPD involved was using.

How many times do I have to tell you the pistols that are approved by the NYPD? They're all chambered in 9mm. Since they were standard "walking the beat" guns, 99.9999999% probability says they were loaded with hollow points.

[Archetype]

Oh, law enforcement and the legal system

Cops

Planted Drugs

In A Woman's Car

Because She Wouldn't Fuck a Judge

The pedestal that cops are put on in this country is like no other country in the world. It's ridiculous.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I'm very interested to learn what type of weapons and ammo the NYPD involved was using.

How many times do I have to tell you the pistols that are approved by the NYPD? They're all chambered in 9mm. Since they were standard "walking the beat" guns, 99.9999999% probability says they were loaded with hollow points.

I'm only hearing that from you. I've not read any official reports that indicate what type of weapons were used in this specific situation either way and so until then it's only hearsay what they used, 9MM, .40, .45, etc.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Oh, law enforcement and the legal system

Cops

Planted Drugs

In A Woman's Car

Because She Wouldn't Fuck a Judge

The pedestal that cops are put on in this country is like no other country in the world. It's ridiculous.

Your stereotyping law enforcement. I never said all cops are honest. Do you know for a fact that these officers involved with this incident were dishonest police officers?

[The Sushi Hunter]

You're a real tough guy behind the computer there Slucero. Where at in any of my theories, opinions, assumptions that I posted in regards to this specific New York incident did I indicate they were facts? So I'm a bad guy for supporting the police? You along with criminals can agree on that.

[Archetype]

I'm very interested to learn what type of weapons and ammo the NYPD involved was using.

How many times do I have to tell you the pistols that are approved by the NYPD? They're all chambered in 9mm. Since they were standard "walking the beat" guns, 99.9999999% probability says they were loaded with hollow points.

I'm only hearing that from you. I've not read any official reports that indicate what type of weapons were used in this specific situation either way and so until then it's only hearsay what they used, 9MM, .40, .45, etc.

It's called the process elimination. If the only handguns allowed to be carried by NYPD officers are chambered in 9mm, you can bet that the officers involved in this incident were carrying handguns chambered in 9mm.

[Archetype]

Oh, law enforcement and the legal system

Cops

Planted Drugs

In A Woman's Car

Because She Wouldn't Fuck a Judge

The pedestal that cops are put on in this country is like no other country in the world. It's ridiculous.

Your stereotyping law enforcement. I never said all cops are honest. Do you know for a fact that these officers involved with this incident were dishonest police officers?

I'm not relating this to the officers involved in the shooting, just commenting/lamenting about the fact that police are placed on such a high pedestal when there are quite a few real pieces of shit in law enforcement.

.

[slucero]

You're a real tough guy behind the computer there Slucero. Where at in any of my theories, opinions, assumptions that I posted in regards to this specific New York incident did I indicate they were facts? So I'm a bad guy for supporting the police? You along with criminals can agree on that.

Are you 14 years old Sushi? GROW UP.

This has nothing to do with anyone being a "a real tough guy behind the computer"... You're getting your ASS handed to you, and you don't have the balls to admit you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

Here's why: Everything you post is JUST your opinion, and you won't support it with any fact... and when someone posts a factual source you simply dismiss it and continue to stick to your opinion.. even though it proves you wrong..

and I guess we're BOTH "bad guys" because I support LEO's too... I won't speak for Archetype... I'll let him voice his support for LEO's himself..



Now lets look at your posts...

I read where they shot the bad guy 16 or so times. I'd say if the cops are using .40s and .45s, the additional shot victims were secondary impacts, meaning the bullets or portions of the bullets went completely through the bad guy and then continued on and struck others. When a bullet hits something hard like bones and then frag off into a few directions and out the person. Even a bullet hitting a belt buckle worn by the bad guy could also cause it to frag off and go into different directions.

In this situation, it's highly probable that there were people getting hit with bullets and or fragments of bullets that had already penetrated and exited the bad guy either in one piece or in fragments, and since they had primary impact on the bad guy, they had slowed down considerably by the time the secondary impact occured.

I didn't miss that. But I may have missed where it says they were directly shot at and hit. Again, until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume they were hit indirectly by either bullets or frags of bullets that either passed completely through the bad guy or hit bone and or exterior items such as belt buckle causing the bullets to frag and then hit others.

Similar situation when people shoot guns in close quarters like in an apartment with calibers such as .40 and .45, which I'm sure Law Enforcement had in this NY situation, bullets will pass through multiple units before they travel no further. Even more so when a guy gets shot in a crowd of people. Those bullets exit the bad guy and can go on and hit more people. I'm sure that's what happened in this situation and I'm going to assume so until I get facts that state otherwise. People with little to no experience with weaponry must believe that once a person gets hit with a bullet, it stays in them or can't travel any further than that, which is incorrect in most cases, again depending on the caliber of weapon, distance between the gun that was fired and the point of impact, what the bullet hits while its traveling through the target, angle, size of the target, what the target is wearing, etc. Various factors involved. Even that smelly blimp Rosie O'fucking lard ass Donnell couldn't completely stop most larger caliber bullets, but she'd be something worth seriously thinking about hiding behind if you were being shot at and she was standing near you.

At this point Achetype TELLS YOU what NYPD APPROVES FIREARMS ARE...

I spent two years working for a firearms manufacturing company and have been shooting my entire life. There's no way that 9 people were hit by bullets passing through the guy. NYPD approved firearms are Glock 19 9mm, Double Action Only Sig P226 9mm and the S&W 5946 . They're loaded with hollow points. 9mm hollow points generally do stop in a human sized target. These two cops basically fired wildly when they saw shooting. They exercised poor muzzle discipline and weren't sure of their target or what was beyond it before they opened fire. The shooter was carrying a 1911 .45ACP which holds 7 rounds. He fired 5 and two were found in his gun after he was taken down. All five shots he fired hit his intended target. Every innocent bystander was struck by police bullets. They showed a lot of incompetence in this situation.

"Only the police and military should have guns."

Yeah, right. The biggest morons about guns are usually police officers. Come watch my local PD do their twice a year qualification. You'll be disgusted.

Yet you STILL cling to your opinions and spit them out as if they are FACT... which they are not..

So Archetype, with your cops like that you must be from Mayberry then, yes? Do you know for a fact the cops in this situation were firing 9MMs with hollow tip ammo? If that is true, yeah, the bullets would most likely not pass through the guy as my theory has it. But if they were using that type of setup, they were definitely outgunned cause the fact is, the bad guy had a .45.

My theory is based on the assumption that the cops were firing .40s and/or .45 with "FBI Loads/full metal jacket ammo". I did read an interesting article today in which authorities are already discussing the fact that many of the people that were hit, were done so after bullets that were fired had bounced off objects and then hit the people, either in fragments or whole. I would expect that in a large crowd where the gunman was firing randomly at the cops while moving through the crowded street, the cops had no other choice but to fire back in split second reaction in an attempt to prevent the guy from hitting more people and for their protection as well, which some rounds may have missed the bad guy. But from what some are commenting on forums and news article comments, they are taking it as though the cops freaked and just started firing randomly into the crowd or towards anything or anyone that was moving, which is not true. They knew exactly who they were after and there were lots of factors and obstacles involved.

We will just have to wait and see what the autopsy report shows in regards to the number of entrance and exit wounds the bad guy sustained, and I can almost guarantee you he has exit wounds and he doesn't look like he was that big of a guy so if a round went through him without hitting any bone, it could continue on and hit someone else, again depending on the size of the gun that shot the round and what type of round. How many bullets were found in him, what type of weapons and ammo the cops were using, and how many shots the cops fired in total, which shouldn't be too difficult to determine since it didn't last more than a magazine or two per cop.

Out of the number of bullets that the bad guy fired, do you think any of those hit anyone besides the guy he shot and killed? Any of his shots bounce off objects and then hit people? There is a probability factor there as well. I think the point here is, if the cops weren't there firing on him, he may have killed more than just his initial target.

You simply don't believe him..

And HERE Archetype says it AGAIN...

I know with 100% certainty that they were firing 9mm hollowpoints, because they were using magazine-fed pistols and all 3 NYPD approved magazine-fed pistols are chambered in 9mm. ..... Plus, as posted before, the police have already confirmed that all the bystanders were struck by police bullets, so your theory is dead wrong,

And yet here AGAIN you simply choose to not believe Archetype regarding NYPD approved magazine-fed pistols and then accuse him of hating LEO's...

I have a number of close friends who I’ve known back to the years of my military career who are currently or who have been in law enforcement after separating from the military, and because of that I have dialog with others who I met through my friends who are also in law enforcement, in both Texas and some parts of California, and none of them carry a 9MM as their service weapon, only .40 and .45’s. You have a very negative outlook and opinion on law enforcement. I'm sure you have your reasons, right or wrong. I don't share the same outlook and opinion on that as you do though and for that I am greatful.

In regards to the New York shooting, I’m looking forward to learning more about what exact type of weapons and ammo the cops used during that situation and the findings in the autopsy report. We pretty much know that he’s got 16 entrance wounds, what I’m interested in is the number of exit wounds and where they are located. If say he’s got 10 exit wounds about the neck arms shoulder and legs and the cops only fired a total of 20 rounds, we already know he’s got 16 entrance wounds and 9 others were hit with either fragments of our entire bullets. This information would then point to some of the exiting projectiles moving on to hit other people. Now let’s say that the cops shot 30 rounds in total, the bad guy has the 16 entrance wounds but only 3 exit wounds. Since 9 others were hit, yeah, then you can say that bullets fired by the police either bounced off objects other than the bad guy and hit the people or, were hit directly by gunfire by the cops. There were no other fatalities beyond the bad guy and his victim.

Even hollow tip ammo fired from a .45 at close range can completely pass through a neck, arm, shoulder, or leg if it doesn’t hit bone and then go on to hit others. Even if it does hit bone, it can still bounce off the bone and exit the area and still have enough velocity to injure another person. Hollow tip ammo can penetrate up to 18 inches of flesh before it stops. The areas I mentioned above are far less than that. Again, it’s all speculation right now until we get the reports.

And here, after the facts disprove every single thing you've said, AND after you've already personally attacked Archetype by accusing him of hating LEO's... you STILL question what pistols NYPD used...

and you do the classic internet troll move.. attack everyone...

I'm very interested to learn what type of weapons and ammo the NYPD involved was using.

Pathetic how all of you focus only on the NYPD as the only fault and not the bad guy who came out with a gun and shot his ex-coworker to death on a crowded city street.

Yea... You're a real tough guy behind the computer there


So... Here's your answer regarding NYPD weapons moron.. STRAIGHT from the NYPS Website...

New NYPD officers are allowed to select one of three 9mm service pistols: the SIG P226 DAO, Smith & Wesson Model 5946, and Glock 19

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/train ... tics.shtml

Now I expect after reading this you'll post.. "well maybe they were using weapons they brought from home"...

[The Sushi Hunter]

So if it's 9MMs that were used with hollow tip what's it going to change about the situation? I've read a few reports that indicate the bad guy sustained gunshots in arms, legs and maybe the shoulder areas. A 9MM hollow tip is able to pass through those areas and then exit with enough velocity if it hasn't hit any bone to go on to injure others if others do happen to be in the line of where the bullet is going after exiting the guy, especially when the distance between the guns fired and the target that was hit is at point blank range. That's all I've been suggesting.

It takes more then just being able to fire a gun accurately in order to be safe. Just as important is split second decision and problem solving skills along with the command of a high level of sound judgement.

[slucero]

So if it's 9MMs that were used with hollow tip what's it going to change about the situation? I've read a few reports that indicate the bad guy sustained gunshots in arms, legs and maybe the shoulder areas. A 9MM hollow tip is able to pass through those areas and then exit with enough velocity if it hasn't hit any bone to go on to injure others if others do happen to be in the line of where the bullet is going after exiting the guy, especially when the distance between the guns fired and the target that was hit is at point blank range. That's all I've been suggesting.

It takes more then just being able to fire a gun accurately in order to be safe. Just as important is split second decision and problem solving skills along with the command of a high level of sound judgement.

No haven't been suggesting that at all - you've been consistent that they were using something OTHER than 9mm... and then trying to validate that with your opinion, unsupported with anything factual. It's only NOW that you are changing your story.



Regarding 9mm, .40, .45 rounds:

9mm, .40 and .45 are literally identical from a ballistics standpoint, so cavitation and fragmentation will be also. More importantly, at the range they were firing at there is literally NO LOSS of velocity... so those rounds were going to go though 'n' through - fragment or whole.

Seen below - 9mm, .40, .45, .357, .10mm though ballistics jellm note the differences in fps.

Bottom line.. at that range 9mm, .40, or .45, WOULD NOT MATTER.






Regarding situational awareness and reaction:


As I've posted, and CLEARLY YOU HAVEN'T READ, a study by The Police Policy Studies Council CLEARLY indicates that when more than one cop is involved:

1. the number of rounds fired INCREASES, per officer, by at least 45%,
   
2. and the hit ratio DECREASES by as much as 82%

When it's only one cop involved:

1. Shootings involving singular officers appear to have hit ratios approaching (if not exceeding) 50%.

They all get the same training... but statistics do not lie... and the STUDY clearly indicates officers are more accurate & focused alone vs. together. And as the and the NYPD shooting clearly indicates... a civilian is much more likely to be shot by the police in a public shooting if there is more than one cop discharging their weapon, meaning Archetype is CORRECT in his assertion that the 2 cops:

• fired wildly and
• exercised poor muzzle discipline and
• weren't sure of their target or what was beyond it before they opened fire.

And it's NOT a matter of hating police... as with most things, it's a matter of FACTS.. and in this case using those to improve/adjust training methodologies that result in improved officer accuracy and increased public safety when these situations occur...

...instead of relying on personal opinion, unless that opinion is FACT based.

[The Sushi Hunter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwoaX4O8ph8

Beef ribs are a whole lot thicker than human ribs. The hollow tip passes through the ribs, heart and pieces of the bullet exit the mass. The distance in total is more than 12 inches and that is after the fact that it passed through beef ribs and heart. Ballistics graph above is inaccurate.

[Archetype]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwoaX4O8ph8

Beef ribs are a whole lot thicker than human ribs. The hollow tip passes through the ribs, heart and pieces of the bullet exit the mass. The distance in total is more than 12 inches and that is after the fact that it passed through beef ribs and heart. Ballistics graph above is inaccurate.

There are about 50 different brands of ammunition and 100s of different loads for each caliber. You're being way too general in your observation about the graph. Barrel length is also a factor.

[Archetype]

Here come the lawsuits

[Archetype]

The title of this thread says 2 dead, but wasn't only one person killed? Unless I've missed something?

[The Sushi Hunter]

The title of this thread says 2 dead, but wasn't only one person killed? Unless I've missed something?

The gunman and the gunman's victim are the two dead.

[Archetype]

Police shoot an unarmed man 41 fucking times

People who are cops are people who can't do anything else. The result is stupid shit like this.

[StevePerryHair]

Police shoot an unarmed man 41 fucking times

People who are cops are people who can't do anything else. The result is stupid shit like this.

That second sentence has to be one of the most dumb assed things I've seen anyone post here. And I've seen a lot of dumb shit.

[Archetype]

Police shoot an unarmed man 41 fucking times

People who are cops are people who can't do anything else. The result is stupid shit like this.

That second sentence has to be one of the most dumb assed things I've seen anyone post here. And I've seen a lot of dumb shit.

You just lack observational skills, or don't spend very much time with cops.

[StevePerryHair]

Police shoot an unarmed man 41 fucking times

People who are cops are people who can't do anything else. The result is stupid shit like this.

That second sentence has to be one of the most dumb assed things I've seen anyone post here. And I've seen a lot of dumb shit.

You just lack observational skills, or don't spend very much time with cops.

Well let's see, I've been married for 21 years to a guy who has been a cop for 19 of those years. I am not naive enough to think there aren't bad cops out there who give the good ones a bad name. Good cops don't like it either, they actually HATE when they see those stories, but there are so many more good ones than bad ones, I'm afraid you are the one with the lack of observation skills.

You seem to think they are put on a pedestal? Yeah right! You must be mistaking them with fire fighters. Police have no glory. They are more hated than liked, because honestly, who LIKES a run in with a cop. Who enjoys a speeding ticket? Who enjoys being arrested? Or even having a cop drive near you?

My husband goes to work everyday and for 19 years, I always had in the back of my mind, I hope he's careful. He risks his life with the scummy people out there who think they can just do anything they want. They have to make split second decisions, thinking of their own lives too, and I'm not going to say terrible mistakes can't happen. But statistically that us pretty rare considering the people and numbers each cop deals with daily.

That being said, your statement was ignorant. "people who are cops can't do anything else" Bullshit. I have known SO many cops over the years. One, he has an engineering degree. Boy was his fatherinlaw pissed when law enforcement drew him in. His daughter married to a "blue collar worker" But he loved the job, and opted not to pursue engineering. They have a cop who is a lawyer. Got his law degree, but decided that law enforcement was more exciting for him. He now uses his degree to help within the department too. I know several with computer science/ programming degrees. Guys who know they can make more money, but LOVE being a cop. My own husband could have done anything he wanted to in life. He is very intelligent, and he is part way through a masters degree too. He LOVES his job. He can't imagine doing anything else.

These guys aren't hot heads, they aren't guys with power trips, they aren't all the other stereotypes people throw out there. They are guys who love the idea of serving their communities, helping to keep order in this INSANE society we live in. They feel good when things happen, and they know they made a difference.

I don't know what happened to you at the hands of the police, or to someone you know, to make you carry such ignorance and hatred, but trust me, you are the skewed one.