Lacking ambition of past tours or doing fine..?

[PianoMan1986]

Be warned, rambling will follow ::chuckles::

Just a thought I've had recently (that's been talked about before referencing other bands -- Bon Jovi, Springsteen, etc.) regarding what the band's been playing on tour. Looking back on some Augeri era concerts on youtube (amazing they manage to stay on there), it seemed the band was a little more ambitious (for lack of a better word) around the 2003/2004 era -- although just some examples off the top of my head: playing Precious Time, playing a medley of La Do Da/Dixie Highway/Line of Fire, playing Liberty, playing Trial By Fire, standing behind some of the Red13 tracks (forgot how much I liked seeing/hearing that as an intro). Even more ambitious the Generations Tour spanning their career after the mentioned time period. Even beyond that, upping the energy with Jeff fronting the band, but also pulling out Message of Love, I'll Be Alright Without You, Edge of the Blade, Opened the Door, etc. as his time with the band went forward (*note, I only saw them with Jeff during the Def Leppard double bill tour). Although more of a nitpick as a piano player, but I've never understood why Jon picks one theme for his solo during the shows for each tour and sticks with it, instead of riffing around whatever he feels like (e.g., if so inclined, look back at what he did during the Escape tour vs. the Frontiers tour, as well as over other subsequent tours).

For me personally, interest is lacking when these triple bill tours come around (admittedly, reviews seem to be positive), although perhaps I was spoiled in seeing the band during a handful of their "Evening with..." shows. I'd be more apt to attend a double bill tour. I will say I was glad to read about Deen "being allowed" to sing a couple tunes again, the addition of Faith in the Heartland, and Never Walk Away -- somewhat makes up for the pure neglect/absence of Eclipse material (although still plenty of great tunes they could/should be playing from it).

[steveo777]

I hear ya. They seem to be having much larger attendance with the greatest hits. Journey was never as big in sales with Augeri or Soto, overall, as they are now. Still, I really wish there could be some concerts played that cover more of the catalog. Maybe they should try and figure out which venues to best do this in. These might also be good for a couple more live DVDs.

[PianoMan1986]

I hear ya. They seem to be having much larger attendance with the greatest hits. Journey was never as big in sales with Augeri or Soto, overall, as they are now. Still, I really wish there could be some concerts played that cover more of the catalog. Maybe they should try and figure out which venues to best do this in. These might also be good for a couple more live DVDs.

Thank you for sparking another thought Steve -- I meant to make mention of the whole attachment to the greatest hits vs taking chances and pulling out surprises. I mean I know they hit that battle hard during the 30th Anniversary tour, but at this point in their career what does it matter regarding attendance? Yes, from the business aspect you want the higher attendance, but how does it sustain itself if you keep playing the same stuff -- especially with the lack of emotion/enthusiasm onstage (aside from Deen and Arnel).

[stevew2]

Its different from what they tried in 2001 till 2009,no new shit, they are getting by ,playing the old tunes,a retro 80s band with a hired singer.They had there chance and blew it big time.They still sound okay,they could have done alot more with better choices.They will get by.They could have done so much more.I almost feel sorry for them.I did enjoy there effort,i had some great times at there concerts from 2002 thru 2006.Its all good

[The_Noble_Cause]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

[steveo777]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

That's a real possibility......and to that I say, nothing ventured nothing gained. What's the worst that could happen? Lose Azoff some money and get their hands slapped..........

[Eric]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

I saw them alone in 2009...I thought they were mostly alone in 2009 exdept with a few dates sprinkled with Heart? Was my date that unqiue?

They played 6 post-perry songs, including Deen on Higher Place. Definitely my preferred type of show.

[Yoda]

I think for Journey to play anything that is outside of the realm of the DD on these triple bills has to be considered somewhat ambitious. The reason why I say that is you know the band isn't going to have as much time to play a longer set list, so choosing some songs that aren't popular among the casual fan (who's going to go to the concert because they're getting three 80's bands instead of one) is going to be some sort of a risk. Example, a couple nights ago in Greensboro, they opened with "Heartland" and mixed in "Never Walk Away". I never heard either song on the radio, especially here on the east coast. That's two rather obscure songs that are probably not going to go over too well with the majority of the audience. Mix in some really back catalog classics like "Anytime", which is great for the much older Journey fan or the very hardcore fan (like a lot of us here), but probably not the ones who became fans of the band because of "Don't Stop Believing" or "Separate ways".

Now, if Journey REALLY wanted to be ambitious and truly WANTED to push Eclipse, here's what I would have done:

1. In select cities - probably major cities or cities where music is a little more supported, have a two night concert package.
2. The first night would be "An Evening With Journey, featuring the full album of their latest album, Eclipse". Just the album live. No Separate Ways, no Don't Stop Believing!
3. The second night would be the standard Journey concert with the classics.
4. Both concerts would be the price of one, so you're basically getting the first night with nothing but Eclipse music free.
5. Oh, and ONLY do this on Friday and Saturday nights! Don't do this during the week, because people won't go both nights if it's during the week. I know it killed me the next day when I went to the Greensboro concert on Wednesday and then had to get up early (6AM) for work the next morning.
6. The first concert would be at a more intimate venue, and could even be sort of like a "storytellers" type of deal like they used to do on VH1. So, they could do like a Q & A with the audience or whatever.

Would they lose money? Possibly, BUT business is always a high risk, high reward sort of thing. If this idea ever caught fire, then Journey could do this for ever new album they put out. Now keep in mind, they wouldn't have to do this in every city - but I would definitely do it in all the major cities. Just like things like the Wal*Mart deal for the CDs and so forth, these older bands have to be creative in their marketing to get their stuff out to the masses.

Now, you may ask, "OK Yoda, what if every single person was going to go to this intimate concert on Friday night that bought tickets for the larger venue the next night, what happens when that smaller venue gets filled up?" And I would say that once the first night's capacity reaches its limit, the option for the first night would go away. So, it's kind of first come, first serve deal. But, if fans were offered something at the first concert, free t-shirt or something, then it would get fans out for the Eclipse only show.

Maybe this wouldn't work at all, but I think it would have been worth a try, even if it was just a handful of select cities as some sort of pilot program.

[Eric]

I'm in favor of something like this but make it a once a year thing for us hard core fans - in as central of a location as possible. Call it Journey FanFest. Play some small theatre for 1k of us and play your whole new album...

[Jeremey]

One possible explanation is that the band has been painted into a corner by having the blessing and the curse of reaching the height of their creative energy and population over the course of only about 4-5 years. By the broadest stretch, the bulk of the band's popular output was maybe between the years of 1979-1983 or so. But they've been around for nearly 40 years, pretty much on the strength of that 4-5 year peak. So you have a band that has been "active" (again, a generous statement, given the dry spell in the 90s) for 35+ years, but only managed to peak for that five year period or so. Now if you compare a band that had reached the level of popularity and continued to be active and release new material for nearly 40 years, you're in Aerosmith, Stones, Buffet, Bon Jovi, U2, Springsteen, Petty, Pink Floyd company. Bands that continued to release fresh material (or at least stay in the public consciousness) that continued to evolve over the duration of their career.

These are bands that do the 2 hour headlining shows and continue to tour every year because they had longevity, backed by a very deep catalog accumulated over at least 15-20 years. Versus Journey that peaked for about 5 years and is only experiencing popularity right now based on a pop culture revival of one or two of their hits.

So they could I guess go out and headline smaller venues playing deeper cuts. But that wouldn't last because the crowds are going to eventually dry up...Again, because their popularity is so dependent on such a small segment of their history. Had they continued recording, with that quintessential lineup of 81-83, for another 10-15 years or so, they would have been a band that could still go out and fill sheds all by themselves and do 2 hour shows that weren't all just foreplay for those one or two songs Joe Sixpack now expects due to The Sopranos and Glee. But they didn't, and so their fortune is tied into a tight, compact little package that allows them to be the big dog on a bill of 3 other nostalgia acts that didn't reach the same peak of fame and fortune in such a small time frame.

A good illustration of this would be to imagine Journey after the release of Generations - Assume for a moment Augeri's voice was healthy, and also assume that The Sopranos never happened, Glee never happened, all the other pop culture milestones that propped up the band's profile...Arnel Pineda and his rags to riches story never happened -- assume it's just the band continuing on from 2005 with the same lineup and the same musical legacy they had. So what would have happened over the past 7 years? Well, I imagine that they would have gotten very tired of going out and playing the same 18-20 songs as headliners, and people would have gotten tired of hearing them. Because they'd just be revisiting the same place in time over and over again...Would they have had the creative dynamic to reinvent themselves and experience a resurgence based on new, relevant material? Absolutely not, because that line up of the band proved they did not have the creative chemistry or energy to launch a resurgence based on new original material. Schon, in his ADD mentality, would have gotten bored with Journey and probably launched a solo career with a small but devoted following. Cain may have made his mark as a producer and songwriter for other artists...

The band didn't have the LONG TERM success necessary to capture the imagination of concert audiences based on a few years of massive hits. The stars aligned on the revival of their career, based on one or two songs becoming "one hit wonders" 25 years after their release. And they are managed well enough to take advantage of every opportunity thats presented itself. And they're doing the right thing by riding it out and making more money than they've ever made in their careers, but I think every member of that band understands the reason for that resurgence, and is aware of the restrictions of such a resurgence. It's probably not creatively inspiring, and there's likely no driving desire to suddenly become relevant again based on new material...But it makes them money, and it shapes their legacy, and hopefully they'll end on that high note rather than staying too long at the party.

[Yoda]

I'm in favor of something like this but make it a once a year thing for us hard core fans - in as central of a location as possible. Call it Journey FanFest. Play some small theatre for 1k of us and play your whole new album...

No, you wouldn't want to make this a once a year thing for hardcore fans only - that doesn't grow the music! That doesn't send a very welcoming message out to the masses who love classic Journey music, but are still considered "casual fans". You would want this to be a free option, first come first serve of course, that gives everybody a chance to hear the new music. You definitely would want it done in select major cities - because you need it to get out to as many fans as possible. Journey wouldn't be able to do it in every city, unless it really started catching fire, but you would want it done for weekend shows so that more people would be willing to go out and hear it. Kind of like in the old days with some bands where people bought the music because they heard it live. That's the only way this music gets out to the masses, but it being once a year in one central place would be too limiting and probably wouldn't do anything to attract a large enough scale of people to the new music.

[Yoda]

One possible explanation is that the band has been painted into a corner by having the blessing and the curse of reaching the height of their creative energy and population over the course of only about 4-5 years. By the broadest stretch, the bulk of the band's popular output was maybe between the years of 1979-1983 or so. But they've been around for nearly 40 years, pretty much on the strength of that 4-5 year peak. So you have a band that has been "active" (again, a generous statement, given the dry spell in the 90s) for 35+ years, but only managed to peak for that five year period or so. Now if you compare a band that had reached the level of popularity and continued to be active and release new material for nearly 40 years, you're in Aerosmith, Stones, Buffet, Bon Jovi, U2, Springsteen, Petty, Pink Floyd company. Bands that continued to release fresh material (or at least stay in the public consciousness) that continued to evolve over the duration of their career.

These are bands that do the 2 hour headlining shows and continue to tour every year because they had longevity, backed by a very deep catalog accumulated over at least 15-20 years. Versus Journey that peaked for about 5 years and is only experiencing popularity right now based on a pop culture revival of one or two of their hits.

So they could I guess go out and headline smaller venues playing deeper cuts. But that wouldn't last because the crowds are going to eventually dry up...Again, because their popularity is so dependent on such a small segment of their history. Had they continued recording, with that quintessential lineup of 81-83, for another 10-15 years or so, they would have been a band that could still go out and fill sheds all by themselves and do 2 hour shows that weren't all just foreplay for those one or two songs Joe Sixpack now expects due to The Sopranos and Glee. But they didn't, and so their fortune is tied into a tight, compact little package that allows them to be the big dog on a bill of 3 other nostalgia acts that didn't reach the same peak of fame and fortune in such a small time frame.

A good illustration of this would be to imagine Journey after the release of Generations - Assume for a moment Augeri's voice was healthy, and also assume that The Sopranos never happened, Glee never happened, all the other pop culture milestones that propped up the band's profile...Arnel Pineda and his rags to riches story never happened -- assume it's just the band continuing on from 2005 with the same lineup and the same musical legacy they had. So what would have happened over the past 7 years? Well, I imagine that they would have gotten very tired of going out and playing the same 18-20 songs as headliners, and people would have gotten tired of hearing them. Because they'd just be revisiting the same place in time over and over again...Would they have had the creative dynamic to reinvent themselves and experience a resurgence based on new, relevant material? Absolutely not, because that line up of the band proved they did not have the creative chemistry or energy to launch a resurgence based on new original material. Schon, in his ADD mentality, would have gotten bored with Journey and probably launched a solo career with a small but devoted following. Cain may have made his mark as a producer and songwriter for other artists...

The band didn't have the LONG TERM success necessary to capture the imagination of concert audiences based on a few years of massive hits. The stars aligned on the revival of their career, based on one or two songs becoming "one hit wonders" 25 years after their release. And they are managed well enough to take advantage of every opportunity thats presented itself. And they're doing the right thing by riding it out and making more money than they've ever made in their careers, but I think every member of that band understands the reason for that resurgence, and is aware of the restrictions of such a resurgence. It's probably not creatively inspiring, and there's likely no driving desire to suddenly become relevant again based on new material...But it makes them money, and it shapes their legacy, and hopefully they'll end on that high note rather than staying too long at the party.

I agree with you Jeremey. That is why if they ever decided to do a version of my idea, they would have to do a two night show in select cities where one show is for new music only, the other show would be mostly classics. The only reason why I think people would come out to the first show is simply that it would be a "free" show on a Friday night, and of course there would be booze there...LOL!

[Art Vandelay]

One possible explanation is that the band has been painted into a corner by having the blessing and the curse of reaching the height of their creative energy and population over the course of only about 4-5 years. By the broadest stretch, the bulk of the band's popular output was maybe between the years of 1979-1983 or so. But they've been around for nearly 40 years, pretty much on the strength of that 4-5 year peak. So you have a band that has been "active" (again, a generous statement, given the dry spell in the 90s) for 35+ years, but only managed to peak for that five year period or so. Now if you compare a band that had reached the level of popularity and continued to be active and release new material for nearly 40 years, you're in Aerosmith, Stones, Buffet, Bon Jovi, U2, Springsteen, Petty, Pink Floyd company. Bands that continued to release fresh material (or at least stay in the public consciousness) that continued to evolve over the duration of their career.

These are bands that do the 2 hour headlining shows and continue to tour every year because they had longevity, backed by a very deep catalog accumulated over at least 15-20 years. Versus Journey that peaked for about 5 years and is only experiencing popularity right now based on a pop culture revival of one or two of their hits.

So they could I guess go out and headline smaller venues playing deeper cuts. But that wouldn't last because the crowds are going to eventually dry up...Again, because their popularity is so dependent on such a small segment of their history. Had they continued recording, with that quintessential lineup of 81-83, for another 10-15 years or so, they would have been a band that could still go out and fill sheds all by themselves and do 2 hour shows that weren't all just foreplay for those one or two songs Joe Sixpack now expects due to The Sopranos and Glee. But they didn't, and so their fortune is tied into a tight, compact little package that allows them to be the big dog on a bill of 3 other nostalgia acts that didn't reach the same peak of fame and fortune in such a small time frame.

A good illustration of this would be to imagine Journey after the release of Generations - Assume for a moment Augeri's voice was healthy, and also assume that The Sopranos never happened, Glee never happened, all the other pop culture milestones that propped up the band's profile...Arnel Pineda and his rags to riches story never happened -- assume it's just the band continuing on from 2005 with the same lineup and the same musical legacy they had. So what would have happened over the past 7 years? Well, I imagine that they would have gotten very tired of going out and playing the same 18-20 songs as headliners, and people would have gotten tired of hearing them. Because they'd just be revisiting the same place in time over and over again...Would they have had the creative dynamic to reinvent themselves and experience a resurgence based on new, relevant material? Absolutely not, because that line up of the band proved they did not have the creative chemistry or energy to launch a resurgence based on new original material. Schon, in his ADD mentality, would have gotten bored with Journey and probably launched a solo career with a small but devoted following. Cain may have made his mark as a producer and songwriter for other artists...

The band didn't have the LONG TERM success necessary to capture the imagination of concert audiences based on a few years of massive hits. The stars aligned on the revival of their career, based on one or two songs becoming "one hit wonders" 25 years after their release. And they are managed well enough to take advantage of every opportunity thats presented itself. And they're doing the right thing by riding it out and making more money than they've ever made in their careers, but I think every member of that band understands the reason for that resurgence, and is aware of the restrictions of such a resurgence. It's probably not creatively inspiring, and there's likely no driving desire to suddenly become relevant again based on new material...But it makes them money, and it shapes their legacy, and hopefully they'll end on that high note rather than staying too long at the party.

Excellent observation, Jeremy. Your theory reminds me a lot of what happened with the Beach Boys in the '70s. After Brian Wilson became a total recluse, Dennis and Carl Wilson started to run with the ball and brought a creative funky groove to their sound in the late 60's and early 70's. Then their Best Of/Endless Summer album came out and resurrected their top 10 hits. So their 10 minute medley of hits in their live shows became the main focus of their shows. They were the first band to do the 'greatest hits' tour, and they made a mint while becoming one of the most popular stadium bands of the 70s. Mike Love and Al Jardine wanted nothing else but to cash in on this, which left the Wilson Brothers frustrated because their creativity was placed on the back burner. Dennis put out an album of his own (Pacific Ocean Blue), which creatively was better than anything the Beach Boys had done together in years. This also lead to some of the biggest riffs and splits in the band...and the eventual downfall spiral and death of Dennis Wilson from excessive drug and alcohol use.

[FamilyMan]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

The Generations tour with its nearly three hour set wrecked Augeri's voice for good. Triple bills keep the stage time short and protect Arnel's voice.

[kgdjpubs]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

The Generations tour with its nearly three hour set wrecked Augeri's voice for good. Triple bills keep the stage time short and protect Arnel's voice.

I don't think the 3hr set in itself wrecked Augeri's voice. At best, he was singing for maybe 2hrs--probably closer to 90-100 minutes. Having him warm up, strum guitar for 40 minutes during the pre-Perry stuff, sing two songs at the end of that set, rest 20 more minutes, THEN come on and sing for 90 minutes on what is now a very cold voice is what wrecked Augeri. That's murder on a singer. It's no surprise at all that his voice couldn't hold up. No singer singing that catalog would have survived that.

[Eric]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

The Generations tour with its nearly three hour set wrecked Augeri's voice for good. Triple bills keep the stage time short and protect Arnel's voice.

I don't think the 3hr set in itself wrecked Augeri's voice. At best, he was singing for maybe 2hrs--probably closer to 90-100 minutes. Having him warm up, strum guitar for 40 minutes during the pre-Perry stuff, sing two songs at the end of that set, rest 20 more minutes, THEN come on and sing for 90 minutes on what is now a very cold voice is what wrecked Augeri. That's murder on a singer. It's no surprise at all that his voice couldn't hold up. No singer singing that catalog would have survived that.

As I recall, he initially he blew out his voice in Texas for some kind of a special event show (before a rodeo) in January/February of 2003 before the Main Event Tour.

[Jeremey]

Augeri's voice was in disarray long before the Generations tour. It started out very weak the first night of the tour - An interview with Neal after the first show of the tour mentioned Steve wasn't sounding too good, what are you going to do? And Neal laughed and said "Well, he's going to have to get better!" Within a few dates, his voice was sounding much, much better.

[Gideon]

Augeri's voice was in disarray long before the Generations tour. It started out very weak the first night of the tour - An interview with Neal after the first show of the tour mentioned Steve wasn't sounding too good, what are you going to do? And Neal laughed and said "Well, he's going to have to get better!" Within a few dates, his voice was sounding much, much better.

[kgdjpubs]

As I recall, he initially he blew out his voice in Texas for some kind of a special event show (before a rodeo) in January/February of 2003 before the Main Event Tour.

It may have been blown out then, but it was fully recovered by the few solo dates that Journey did that fall. He sounded great at the Virginia show that I saw. 2hr show, lots of rare stuff and a VERY enthusiastic crowd (they were even going crazy to stuff like Chain Reaction).

By the end of 2004, it was another matter altogether and probably helped set the stage for the 2005 disaster.

[slucero]

As I recall, he initially he blew out his voice in Texas for some kind of a special event show (before a rodeo) in January/February of 2003 before the Main Event Tour.

It may have been blown out then, but it was fully recovered by the few solo dates that Journey did that fall. He sounded great at the Virginia show that I saw. 2hr show, lots of rare stuff and a VERY enthusiastic crowd (they were even going crazy to stuff like Chain Reaction).

By the end of 2004, it was another matter altogether and probably helped set the stage for the 2005 disaster.

Pretty good article on vocal injuries.... it appears nodules are pretty common for pop singers.... and the healing isn't really "healing"... just scar tissue that forms over the injured area, making the scarred over area less pliable... and makes the adjacent areas more prone to injury. So SA may have appeared to heal... but in reality the scarring over set the stage for future issues.


http://1singingcoach.wordpress.com/2011 ... es-doctor/

[The_Noble_Cause]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

The Generations tour with its nearly three hour set wrecked Augeri's voice for good. Triple bills keep the stage time short and protect Arnel's voice.

This is baloney. Reviews, (including one posted on the frontpage of MR.com), mentioned that Augeri was faltering as early as opening night of the Generations tour. On top of that, he sang only 1-2 songs during the first hour of the show, so it's not like he was singing an extremely longer set than usual.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Augeri's voice was in disarray long before the Generations tour. It started out very weak the first night of the tour - An interview with Neal after the first show of the tour mentioned Steve wasn't sounding too good, what are you going to do? And Neal laughed and said "Well, he's going to have to get better!" Within a few dates, his voice was sounding much, much better.

Exactly.
In a MR interview Neal said:

"[SA's] definitely got something going on. I'm not sure what it is, but he's working on it. Last night was much better than the couple of nights before so I think he'll get it together. He's definitely a fucking trooper, he goes out there and tries his hardest, you know....like I said he did sound much stronger last night. He's struggling with some mid-area stuff. I don't know that it's so much the high stuff, but his mid-range – something is bugging him right there. He's got his vocal coach coming out here and he'll be working with him, I'm sure he'll get back on path."

[PianoMan1986]

http://youtu.be/t3yehFTfVsA -- JOURNEY - Live at Fresno, CA 2003

[stevew2]

That sounded good,the band was singing live{i think}

[MCC620]

The 2005 Generations tour and the 2004 Detour tour (both of which you mention) were Journey out on their own. Longer sets, more time for diversity. The 2003 tour (whith Styx and REO also on the bill) was pretty basic. Maybe one Red 13 track and Dixie Highway or something thrown in, but mostly just the hits. As far as I'm aware, this lineup has yet to go out on their own. Maybe they're afraid to?

The Generations tour with its nearly three hour set wrecked Augeri's voice for good. Triple bills keep the stage time short and protect Arnel's voice.

This is baloney. Reviews, (including one posted on the frontpage of MR.com), mentioned that Augeri was faltering as early as opening night of the Generations tour. On top of that, he sang only 1-2 songs during the first hour of the show, so it's not like he was singing an extremely longer set than usual.

you can't warm up for 45 or so minutes, sit on the bench for nearly an hour and then be expected to play in top form for two hours.

[The_Noble_Cause]

you can't warm up for 45 or so minutes, sit on the bench for nearly an hour and then be expected to play in top form for two hours.

If I'm not mistaken, the band took a break after the first set of Rolie stuff. Augeri could've warmed up backstage during that period. Look - accounts of Augeri's warm-up rituals are simply insane. Some interviews claim he had to warm up for hours (!!) and relied upon neck massages, jogging, steam rooms etc. etc. This is just overkill. I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference. If what you say is true, then Augeri should have put his foot down and not participated. Additionally, Augeri DID sing during the first 45 minutes. He did background and lead for a few tunes. Augeri's a talented guy, but this catalog ran roughshod over him. Some singers simply have it, other don't. What was it that Herbie Herbert said about Kevin Chalfant? That he wouldn't warm up at all? He would (paraphrasing) be in the middle of eating a hamburger and just hit the stage cold and knock it right out of the park? Augeri was having problems long before the Gens tour.

[FamilyMan]

you can't warm up for 45 or so minutes, sit on the bench for nearly an hour and then be expected to play in top form for two hours.

If I'm not mistaken, the band took a break after the first set of Rolie stuff. Augeri could've warmed up backstage during that period. Look - accounts of Augeri's warm-up rituals are simply insane. Some interviews claim he had to warm up for hours (!!) and relied upon neck massages, jogging, steam rooms etc. etc. This is just overkill. I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference. If what you say is true, then Augeri should have put his foot down and not participated. Additionally, Augeri DID sing during the first 45 minutes. He did background and lead for a few tunes. Augeri's a talented guy, but this catalog ran roughshod over him. Some singers simply have it, other don't. What was it that Herbie Herbert said about Kevin Chalfant? That he wouldn't warm up at all? He would (paraphrasing) be in the middle of eating a hamburger and just hit the stage cold and knock it right out of the park? Augeri was having problems long before the Gens tour.

Many artists have intensive warm-up rituals before they perform. Mick Jagger runs laps around stadium underbellies before he goes out. Max Weinberg has a his own dressing "warm-up" room at every venue. But you're probably right about Augeri -- the catalog and relentless touring did him in. No masseuse could have saved him.