Arnel is sick?

[slucero]

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

Just creepy......

it looks like he's feeding her..

[The Sushi Hunter]

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

Just creepy......

What's creepy about that? I'm like that with my wife. I spend half my time doing the same exact thing on the other end too.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

Just creepy......

What's creepy about that? I'm like that with my wife. I spend half my time doing the same exact thing on the other end too.

Slucero said it best, it looks like he's feeding her (that, and something about it made me gag a little)

[The Sushi Hunter]

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

Just creepy......

What's creepy about that? I'm like that with my wife. I spend half my time doing the same exact thing on the other end too.

Slucero said it best, it looks like he's feeding her (that, and something about it made me gag a little)

I'd be feeding her something too, and at both ends.

[brywool]

BREATHE DAMMIT BREATHE!!


She's DEAD JIM!

[tater1977]

Arnel Pineda‏@arnelpineda (on his tweeter bird)...

me!after my procedure.took 30 minutes.yay




Arnel Pineda‏@arnelpineda

so far so good.undamaged but irritated larynx and a terrible acid build up causing inflammations all over.

[Enigma869]

How shocking that another guy trying to sing Perry's catalogue would blow his voice out.

[Gideon]

How shocking that another guy trying to sing Perry's catalogue would blow his voice out.

That catalog made Perry its bitch just like it has Arnel and Augeri. Technically, Soto's the only singer to survive unscathed.

[Just Saying]

How shocking that another guy trying to sing Perry's catalogue would blow his voice out.

That catalog made Perry its bitch just like it has Arnel and Augeri. Technically, Soto's the only singer to survive unscathed.

With only a few months under his belt....A walk in the park compared to year after year....Just Saying !!

[Gideon]

How shocking that another guy trying to sing Perry's catalogue would blow his voice out.

That catalog made Perry its bitch just like it has Arnel and Augeri. Technically, Soto's the only singer to survive unscathed.

With only a few months under his belt....A walk in the park compared to year after year....Just Saying !!

Obviously, hence the emoticon. Just saying!

[Enigma869]

That catalog made Perry its bitch just like it has Arnel and Augeri. Technically, Soto's the only singer to survive unscathed.

Right. But, Jeff couldn't come close to Perry's range on his absolute best night. So, while he was singng the songs, he wasn't trying to emulate Perry (which I actually applaud him for). Trying to sing like Perry is what causes the strain and does these guys in!

[YoungJRNY]

That catalog made Perry its bitch just like it has Arnel and Augeri. Technically, Soto's the only singer to survive unscathed.

Right. But, Jeff couldn't come close to Perry's range on his absolute best night. So, while he was singng the songs, he wasn't trying to emulate Perry (which I actually applaud him for). Trying to sing like Perry is what causes the strain and does these guys in!

But there's only one way to sing these songs to keep the "diehards" happy, and that's in the original key. I don't think Arnel try's to sing like Perry, he just has the power and range to pull these songs off nightly, give or take. With Soto singing in a lower register he would of been worse off, over time, because you have to hit certain registers in the voice to sing the Journey classics. Detuning would serve no purpose to the classics & with Soto, more than any other Journey singer, toying his peak register and going beyond his range, probably wouldn't have lasted this long. Singing these songs in original key is killing these singers. Nothing to do with anything other than the Journey catalog taking outs it's own legendary singer in the first place.

What do Journey fans want? A singer that can do it in the original key night in and night out, eventually blowing out another voice onway to a Tape-Gate era, or detuning to where it infuriates a diehard fanbase? Journey can't win. The catalog is too suicidal. REST. Arnel can do it, he just needs more rest. But we all know Neal and company hate keeping their hands off their instruments for a period of time.

[slucero]

That catalog made Perry its bitch just like it has Arnel and Augeri. Technically, Soto's the only singer to survive unscathed.

Right. But, Jeff couldn't come close to Perry's range on his absolute best night. So, while he was singng the songs, he wasn't trying to emulate Perry (which I actually applaud him for). Trying to sing like Perry is what causes the strain and does these guys in!

But there's only one way to sing these songs to keep the "diehards" happy, and that's in the original key. I don't think Arnel try's to sing like Perry, he just has the power and range to pull these songs off nightly, give or take. With Soto singing in a lower register he would of been worse off, over time, because you have to hit certain registers in the voice to sing the Journey classics. Detuning would serve no purpose to the classics & with Soto, more than any other Journey singer, toying his peak register and going beyond his range, probably wouldn't have lasted this long. Singing these songs in original key is killing these singers. Nothing to do with anything other than the Journey catalog taking outs it's own legendary singer in the first place.

What do Journey fans want? A singer that can do it in the original key night in and night out, eventually blowing out another voice onway to a Tape-Gate era, or detuning to where it infuriates a diehard fanbase? Journey can't win. The catalog is too suicidal. REST. Arnel can do it, he just needs more rest. But we all know Neal and company hate keeping their hands off their instruments for a period of time.

For the most part I agree... this catalog is a killer for singers..

What "killed" Perry's voice wasn't the key.. it wasn't even how many times he had to sing those songs..

it was how often he had to sing the songs without rest in between. Touring is reason for his having to stop


Everyone knows that Perry's singing schedule with Journey was monstrous when compared to Augi's or Arnel's (which is even lighter than Augi's). What we''re forgetting is that Perry effectively stopped touring those songs with Journey in 1987, when he was "toast" at the age of 38, returning for TBF at the age of 46, only to leave again - never having to resume that touring schedule. Look at the ROR tour, Perry had only 60% of the dates from the previous tour.

• Perry effectively stopped singing Journey songs at 38 years old
  
• Augeri joined Journey at 39 years old
  
• Arnel joined Journey at 40 years old

Given the age that Augi started at, that he lasted as long as he did (8 years) is pretty damn amazing...


Journey history is a pretty clear indicator that anyone touring these songs past the age of 40, is "singing on borrowed time", and it should fairly obvious that Arnel is right in the age range where Journey singers have had to stop touring these songs.


History is repeating itself again.

[Gideon]

This is sobering without question and should raise some very big, very red flags for the Journey crew, but I've had the pleasure of hearing Arnel 5 times and the only time he sounded shaky was in 2011. I've seen him twice this year, once in Feb. and once in Aug. and he sounded great.

He's got a long way to go before he's in Augeri territory.

[slucero]

I think its the touring that's the unknown..

AP may have it over Augeri from a physical standpoint... but Augi beats AP on longevity (and total shows).. and Arnel will only equal that with time served.

[Gideon]

I think its the touring that's the unknown..

AP may have it over Augeri from a physical standpoint... but Augi beats AP on longevity (and total shows).. and Arnel will only equal that with time served.

I'd say Augeri's edge in longevity owes much to the fact that he never performed at Pineda or Perry's level live. If Arnel burns out quicker, it's because his is a raging inferno compared to Augeri's box of matches.

[AR]

That catalog made Perry its bitch just like it has Arnel and Augeri. Technically, Soto's the only singer to survive unscathed.

Right. But, Jeff couldn't come close to Perry's range on his absolute best night. So, while he was singng the songs, he wasn't trying to emulate Perry (which I actually applaud him for). Trying to sing like Perry is what causes the strain and does these guys in!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiTK6VSL ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8T1XAdw9Tg


Sounded good to me. I preferred a slightly different vocal sound. Still sounded like Journey to me.

[slucero]

I think its the touring that's the unknown..

AP may have it over Augeri from a physical standpoint... but Augi beats AP on longevity (and total shows).. and Arnel will only equal that with time served.

I'd say Augeri's edge in longevity owes much to the fact that he never performed at Pineda or Perry's level live. If Arnel burns out quicker, it's because his is a raging inferno compared to Augeri's box of matches.

Augeri fronted Journey for 8 years.. singing the very same songs in the original key (sometimes tuned down) that AP is singing now... also in the original key (sometimes tuned down).

So there is no difference in that regard.

I'm not sure what you mean "not at SP or AP's level"... Augi was much MORE familiar with Perry than AP. Arnel has even said he was only familiar with Perry because of the Journey songs that were popular, just as he was familiar with Sting or Anne Wilson, so it stands to reason that Augeri's likely to have had a much greater appreciation for the Journey legacy than AP... so the pressure he felt to "deliver" was also likely just as great...

Like I said there is no question who the more gifted singer is physically... my point wasn't regarding that.. ir was about the repeated use, and overuse of those gifts.

With Journey singers, the one thing they have in common is "repetitive strain injury" and touring.

[Gideon]

I think its the touring that's the unknown..

AP may have it over Augeri from a physical standpoint... but Augi beats AP on longevity (and total shows).. and Arnel will only equal that with time served.

I'd say Augeri's edge in longevity owes much to the fact that he never performed at Pineda or Perry's level live. If Arnel burns out quicker, it's because his is a raging inferno compared to Augeri's box of matches.

Augeri fronted Journey for 8 years.. singing the very same songs in the original key (sometimes tuned down) that AP is singing now... also in the original key (sometimes tuned down).

So there is no difference in that regard.

I'm not sure what you mean "not at SP or AP's level"... Augi was much MORE familiar with Perry than AP. Arnel has even said he was only familiar with Perry because of the Journey songs that were popular, just as he was familiar with Sting or Anne Wilson, so it stands to reason that Augeri's likely to have had a much greater appreciation for the Journey legacy than AP... so the pressure he felt to "deliver" was also likely just as great...

Like I said there is no question who the more gifted singer is physically... my point wasn't regarding that.. ir was about the repeated use, and overuse of those gifts.

With Journey singers, the one thing they have in common is "repetitive strain injury" and touring.

When I say Augeri did not sing at Arnel's level, I mean that Augeri consistently ducked notes, went off-key, and generally sounded weak and thin on most of the older Perry material. Contrast with Arnel who, while not perfect, rarely ducks notes, rarely goes off-key, and sings at a higher quality than Augeri ever did in his years in Journey.

Or in other words, I'm offering an explanation as to why Arnel, "the more physically gifted singer", may be burning up faster than Augeri, the inferior singer. Augeri's approach was conservative (it had to be, he didn't have the goods). Arnel, for better or worse, throws everything up to and including the kitchen sink at all the songs.

[JRNYMAN]

I think its the touring that's the unknown..

AP may have it over Augeri from a physical standpoint... but Augi beats AP on longevity (and total shows).. and Arnel will only equal that with time served.

I'd say Augeri's edge in longevity owes much to the fact that he never performed at Pineda or Perry's level live. If Arnel burns out quicker, it's because his is a raging inferno compared to Augeri's box of matches.

Augeri fronted Journey for 8 years.. singing the very same songs in the original key (sometimes tuned down) that AP is singing now... also in the original key (sometimes tuned down).

So there is no difference in that regard.

I'm not sure what you mean "not at SP or AP's level"... Augi was much MORE familiar with Perry than AP. Arnel has even said he was only familiar with Perry because of the Journey songs that were popular, just as he was familiar with Sting or Anne Wilson, so it stands to reason that Augeri's likely to have had a much greater appreciation for the Journey legacy than AP... so the pressure he felt to "deliver" was also likely just as great...

Like I said there is no question who the more gifted singer is physically... my point wasn't regarding that.. ir was about the repeated use, and overuse of those gifts.

With Journey singers, the one thing they have in common is "repetitive strain injury" and touring.

When I say Augeri did not sing at Arnel's level, I mean that Augeri consistently ducked notes, went off-key, and generally sounded weak and thin on most of the older Perry material. Contrast with Arnel who, while not perfect, rarely ducks notes, rarely goes off-key, and sings at a higher quality than Augeri ever did in his years in Journey.

Or in other words, I'm offering an explanation as to why Arnel, "the more physically gifted singer", may be burning up faster than Augeri, the inferior singer. Augeri's approach was conservative (it had to be, he didn't have the goods). Arnel, for better or worse, throws everything up to and including the kitchen sink at all the songs.

Couldn't have stated it any better if I tried. Very well put, Gid. Arnel's range is exponentially broader than was Stevie's as well as his voice being stronger which projects much more.

[slucero]

I think its the touring that's the unknown..

AP may have it over Augeri from a physical standpoint... but Augi beats AP on longevity (and total shows).. and Arnel will only equal that with time served.

I'd say Augeri's edge in longevity owes much to the fact that he never performed at Pineda or Perry's level live. If Arnel burns out quicker, it's because his is a raging inferno compared to Augeri's box of matches.

Augeri fronted Journey for 8 years.. singing the very same songs in the original key (sometimes tuned down) that AP is singing now... also in the original key (sometimes tuned down).

So there is no difference in that regard.

I'm not sure what you mean "not at SP or AP's level"... Augi was much MORE familiar with Perry than AP. Arnel has even said he was only familiar with Perry because of the Journey songs that were popular, just as he was familiar with Sting or Anne Wilson, so it stands to reason that Augeri's likely to have had a much greater appreciation for the Journey legacy than AP... so the pressure he felt to "deliver" was also likely just as great...

Like I said there is no question who the more gifted singer is physically... my point wasn't regarding that.. ir was about the repeated use, and overuse of those gifts.

With Journey singers, the one thing they have in common is "repetitive strain injury" and touring.

When I say Augeri did not sing at Arnel's level, I mean that Augeri consistently ducked notes, went off-key, and generally sounded weak and thin on most of the older Perry material. Contrast with Arnel who, while not perfect, rarely ducks notes, rarely goes off-key, and sings at a higher quality than Augeri ever did in his years in Journey.

Or in other words, I'm offering an explanation as to why Arnel, "the more physically gifted singer", may be burning up faster than Augeri, the inferior singer. Augeri's approach was conservative (it had to be, he didn't have the goods). Arnel, for better or worse, throws everything up to and including the kitchen sink at all the songs.

ahh got it..

Although the Auger I saw sang in the original key... and was brilliant.. no ducked anything.. at least in the beginning when I saw him... later on, horrible.

ability aside.. the touring kills em all.

[steveo777]

A bit of rest and AP is doing well. He's getting ready to bounce right back. He's a tiger. Thanks to Neal, Jon, Ross & Deen for caring enough to take the locomotive off the tracks, when it needed repair. Arnel is almost charged and will be back into action very soon! Canada - Are u ready to rock?

[Gideon]

I think its the touring that's the unknown..

AP may have it over Augeri from a physical standpoint... but Augi beats AP on longevity (and total shows).. and Arnel will only equal that with time served.

I'd say Augeri's edge in longevity owes much to the fact that he never performed at Pineda or Perry's level live. If Arnel burns out quicker, it's because his is a raging inferno compared to Augeri's box of matches.

Augeri fronted Journey for 8 years.. singing the very same songs in the original key (sometimes tuned down) that AP is singing now... also in the original key (sometimes tuned down).

So there is no difference in that regard.

I'm not sure what you mean "not at SP or AP's level"... Augi was much MORE familiar with Perry than AP. Arnel has even said he was only familiar with Perry because of the Journey songs that were popular, just as he was familiar with Sting or Anne Wilson, so it stands to reason that Augeri's likely to have had a much greater appreciation for the Journey legacy than AP... so the pressure he felt to "deliver" was also likely just as great...

Like I said there is no question who the more gifted singer is physically... my point wasn't regarding that.. ir was about the repeated use, and overuse of those gifts.

With Journey singers, the one thing they have in common is "repetitive strain injury" and touring.

When I say Augeri did not sing at Arnel's level, I mean that Augeri consistently ducked notes, went off-key, and generally sounded weak and thin on most of the older Perry material. Contrast with Arnel who, while not perfect, rarely ducks notes, rarely goes off-key, and sings at a higher quality than Augeri ever did in his years in Journey.

Or in other words, I'm offering an explanation as to why Arnel, "the more physically gifted singer", may be burning up faster than Augeri, the inferior singer. Augeri's approach was conservative (it had to be, he didn't have the goods). Arnel, for better or worse, throws everything up to and including the kitchen sink at all the songs.

ahh got it..

Although the Auger I saw sang in the original key... and was brilliant.. no ducked anything.. at least in the beginning when I saw him... later on, horrible.

ability aside.. the touring kills em all.

I saw Augeri in '04 and then in '05 for the Anniversary tour, so I was unfortunate not to have seen him in his heyday. But the boots and videos I've seen from the '98 era still show a shaky singer.

[jestor92]

Yes Augeri lasted 8 years with the band, but he didn't sing for 8 years. He sang live for about 5-6 years before they went into Tapegate. The only reason his medical issues sprung to life is because the Tapegate deal was busted open and when they went back to 'live' singing he sounded like absolute shit and needed Castronovo to sing a good chunk of the music for him before Augeri went down with his 'sickness'.

[slucero]

yup.. I get that too....

so here's another perspective...


years in band before vocal trouble..

Augeri - 5 years

Pineda - 5 years


Physical abilities aside, fan personal preferences aside... history is still indicating the same thing..

Journey singers over 40 start developing vocal problems about the same time/age, and the cause is touring.

[Archetype]

Journey will no longer be a touring act by 2014.

[jrny84]

Not a surprise at all. The combination of their hectic touring schedule with one of the hardest catalogue's to sing is going to do this to any singer.

I remember Perry saying he wanted to take a break from touring back in the frontiers days, but Neal insisted on touring nonstop. Neal is a touring junkie and really this hectic touring schedule with almost no breaks in between destroyed Perry's voice. Just look at the difference in his voice from 81 to 83. Its pretty remarkable.

[Rick]

Not a surprise at all. The combination of their hectic touring schedule with one of the hardest catalogue's to sing is going to do this to any singer.

I remember Perry saying he wanted to take a break from touring back in the frontiers days, but Neal insisted on touring nonstop. Neal is a touring junkie and really this hectic touring schedule with almost no breaks in between destroyed Perry's voice. Just look at the difference in his voice from 81 to 83. Its pretty remarkable.

I think Herbie was the bigger force behind them touring as hard as they did. Their schedules in those days were brutal.

[RocknRoll]

Isn't Arnel dealing with a severe case of acid re-flux which was affecting his vocals? I heard this is a condition he's suffered from for a long time. Sounds to me like getting it treated and reducing the causes and he should be able to get back on the road.

I understand one of the causes of acid re-flux is stress, so glad to see his family has just recently joined him on the road.

He sounds like he's getting a pretty full plate with what he's doing with Journey, his fans and at home. Maybe he just needs to decide on priorities, which obviously reduces the stress...or delegate some of those projects to others!

[brywool]

Isn't Arnel dealing with a severe case of acid re-flux which was affecting his vocals? I heard this is a condition he's suffered from for a long time. Sounds to me like getting it treated and reducing the causes and he should be able to get back on the road.

I understand one of the causes of acid re-flux is stress, so glad to see his family has just recently joined him on the road.

He sounds like he's getting a pretty full plate with what he's doing with Journey, his fans and at home. Maybe he just needs to decide on priorities, which obviously reduces the stress...or delegate some of those projects to others!

It's not because he "blew his voice out" or the "songs are too high for him". Singers are more prone to getting what Arnel has because of the work they put on their gut, voice, etc. Many singers have this and it does screw up the voice, particularly their highest notes. Been dealing with it forever. It also can trigger things like bronchitus and other respiratory issues. It's a bad situation and also elusive and tough to stop- but it most likely isn't the end of his career as so many here wish for. He may have the reflux and not even know it until he sings then he finds out his upper range is affected. The damage to the esophagus has to heal and that will take a bit of time. People are so quick to say he's done. Arnel's been singing all his life in clubs for HOURS every night. Journey shows are, what, an hour and a half? He will be fine, he just has to get it under control. Most significant will probably be diet changes and medicines to stop the acid, unless he does the surgery, which eh, if he's smart, he won't.