27 People Dead, Mostly Children, at Connecticut Elementary

[Clasicrockldy]

There is an update by the Head State Trooper on NBC Connecticut. He will do another one around 6pm EST.

I agree ebake02... what is wrong with this country. This is such a tragedy. Our children aren't safe in school. Teachers should be paid more than they are now. Will it come to being a School Teacher is a hazardous job? It sure looks that way.

[epresley]

I'm a middle school principal and I have been assaulted twice in the past week by emotionally disturbed kids. Times have changed, sadly, for the worse.

[Clasicrockldy]

I'm a middle school principal and I have been assaulted twice in the past week by emotionally disturbed kids. Times have changed, sadly, for the worse.

You are on the front lines! I am so sorry that things for you this past week have been bad for you. Isn't the parents doing anything to help their kids?

[The Sushi Hunter]

What the fuck is wrong with this country

That's exactly what I've been trying to figure out for the past ten/fifteen/twenty years now. Root cause is the growing selfishness people have these days IMO. That kid shot up the little kids because he was pissed at something in his own life at home. Selfishmess is what it is.

The families of the victims are really in a bad spot right now. I can't even imagine how I would be if this happened to my own kids. Makes you really think about when you see your loved ones off for the day if it's going to be the last time you ever see them again. I'm sure there will be parents of victims that have some regrets because they were pissed at their kids and now are unable to tell their kids sorry for being pissed or whatever the issues at home were. Bad stuff all the way around.

[Clasicrockldy]

New article from the Associated Press:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iGRhFfLzD8jaDBlx5ZThVjtyznRA?docId=f967fbfffa10407d849ae70db5102a92

And the Gun debates begin.


Connecticut school shooting revives gun debate

By By THOMAS PEIPERT, Associated Press – 32 minutes ago

LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) — A lone police cruiser outside Columbine High School was the only outward reaction Friday to an even deadlier attack at a Connecticut elementary school.

But in a state that was rocked by the 1999 Columbine school massacre and the Aurora movie theater shooting less than six months ago, Friday's shootings renewed debate over why mass shootings keep occurring and whether gun control can stop them.

"Until we get our acts together and stop making these ... weapons available, this is going to keep happening," said an angry Tom Teves, whose son Alex was killed in the theater shooting last July in the Denver suburb of Aurora.

Teves was choked up as he answered a reporter's call Friday. A work associate of his lives in Newtown, Conn., where 27 people were killed, including 18 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary. The connection chilled and angered him.

The Connecticut gunman was reported to have used a .223-caliber rifle, although it wasn't immediately clear what type. Weapons that use the .223 caliber ammunition can range from assault-style rifles similar to the AR-15 semi-automatic used by James Holmes in Aurora in the July 20 shooting that killed 12 people and wounded 70 to hunting rifles.

The gunman in the recent Oregon shopping mall shooting also used an AR-15, and the Washington, D.C.-area snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo used a .223-caliber Bushmaster, both largely civilian versions of the military's M-16.

Versions of the AR-15 once were outlawed under a U.S. assault weapon ban in 1994. That prohibition expired in 2004 and Congress, in a nod to the political clout of gun enthusiasts, did not renew it.

This week, Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper generated a storm of debate after declaring that it was time to start debating gun control measures. Hickenlooper specifically mentioned the AR-15.

"When you look at what happened in Aurora, a great deal of that damage was from the large magazine on the AR-15. I think we need to have that discussion and say, 'Where is this appropriate?'" Hickenlooper said Wednesday.

After Friday's school shootings, Hickenlooper wrote on Twitter, "We know too well what impact this kind of violence has on a community and our nation."

A visibly emotional President Obama seemed willing to renew debate, calling for "meaningful action" to prevent similar shootings.

Also Friday, Mark Kelly, the astronaut husband of former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot in the head during an attack that killed six people in Tucson, Ariz., last year, said the Connecticut shooting should "sound a call for our leaders to stand up and do what is right."

"This time our response must consist of more than regret, sorrow, and condolence," Kelly said on his Facebook page, calling for "a meaningful discussion about our gun laws and how they can be reformed and better enforced to prevent gun violence and death in America."

Tom Sullivan, whose son Alex also died in the Aurora theater shooting, welcomed the discussion.

"Clips that hold 50 bullets? The only animal you're after with that is man. There is no other reason. That's what that is used for. My question to those people is, 'Why do you need a clip that holds 50 bullets?'" Sullivan said in a phone interview.

But Sullivan said mental health, not gun control, is a more pressing concern.

"We all need someone in our lives to care," Sullivan said. "If we see a friend, a colleague, a co-worker and they're having a hard time, we need to reach out."

No amount of discussion eases the pain, Colorado shooting survivors said.

"It's so sad. It's just so sad," said Judy Brown, whose son, Brooks, was threatened by one of the Columbine killers, Eric Harris, about a year before the shootings there. The family tried to alert authorities that Harris was dangerous.

Judy Brown said she hopes friends of the Connecticut shootings will comfort them over the long run, not just in the initial weeks and months.

"Send them calls. Call them on the phone. Leave them messages. Let them know that you haven't forgotten. It doesn't go away. It's a lifetime struggle.

"It never, ever, ever, goes away. It never goes away," she said, and began to weep.

Associated Press writers Brian Skoloff in Phoenix and P. Solomon Banda, Dan Elliott and Kristen Wyatt in Denver contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[slucero]

New article from the Associated Press:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iGRhFfLzD8jaDBlx5ZThVjtyznRA?docId=f967fbfffa10407d849ae70db5102a92

And the Gun debates begin.


Connecticut school shooting revives gun debate

By By THOMAS PEIPERT, Associated Press – 32 minutes ago

LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) — A lone police cruiser outside Columbine High School was the only outward reaction Friday to an even deadlier attack at a Connecticut elementary school.

But in a state that was rocked by the 1999 Columbine school massacre and the Aurora movie theater shooting less than six months ago, Friday's shootings renewed debate over why mass shootings keep occurring and whether gun control can stop them.

"Until we get our acts together and stop making these ... weapons available, this is going to keep happening," said an angry Tom Teves, whose son Alex was killed in the theater shooting last July in the Denver suburb of Aurora.

Teves was choked up as he answered a reporter's call Friday. A work associate of his lives in Newtown, Conn., where 27 people were killed, including 18 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary. The connection chilled and angered him.

The Connecticut gunman was reported to have used a .223-caliber rifle, although it wasn't immediately clear what type. Weapons that use the .223 caliber ammunition can range from assault-style rifles similar to the AR-15 semi-automatic used by James Holmes in Aurora in the July 20 shooting that killed 12 people and wounded 70 to hunting rifles.

The gunman in the recent Oregon shopping mall shooting also used an AR-15, and the Washington, D.C.-area snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo used a .223-caliber Bushmaster, both largely civilian versions of the military's M-16.

Versions of the AR-15 once were outlawed under a U.S. assault weapon ban in 1994. That prohibition expired in 2004 and Congress, in a nod to the political clout of gun enthusiasts, did not renew it.

This week, Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper generated a storm of debate after declaring that it was time to start debating gun control measures. Hickenlooper specifically mentioned the AR-15.

"When you look at what happened in Aurora, a great deal of that damage was from the large magazine on the AR-15. I think we need to have that discussion and say, 'Where is this appropriate?'" Hickenlooper said Wednesday.

After Friday's school shootings, Hickenlooper wrote on Twitter, "We know too well what impact this kind of violence has on a community and our nation."

A visibly emotional President Obama seemed willing to renew debate, calling for "meaningful action" to prevent similar shootings.

Also Friday, Mark Kelly, the astronaut husband of former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot in the head during an attack that killed six people in Tucson, Ariz., last year, said the Connecticut shooting should "sound a call for our leaders to stand up and do what is right."

"This time our response must consist of more than regret, sorrow, and condolence," Kelly said on his Facebook page, calling for "a meaningful discussion about our gun laws and how they can be reformed and better enforced to prevent gun violence and death in America."

Tom Sullivan, whose son Alex also died in the Aurora theater shooting, welcomed the discussion.

"Clips that hold 50 bullets? The only animal you're after with that is man. There is no other reason. That's what that is used for. My question to those people is, 'Why do you need a clip that holds 50 bullets?'" Sullivan said in a phone interview.

But Sullivan said mental health, not gun control, is a more pressing concern.

"We all need someone in our lives to care," Sullivan said. "If we see a friend, a colleague, a co-worker and they're having a hard time, we need to reach out."

No amount of discussion eases the pain, Colorado shooting survivors said.

"It's so sad. It's just so sad," said Judy Brown, whose son, Brooks, was threatened by one of the Columbine killers, Eric Harris, about a year before the shootings there. The family tried to alert authorities that Harris was dangerous.

Judy Brown said she hopes friends of the Connecticut shootings will comfort them over the long run, not just in the initial weeks and months.

"Send them calls. Call them on the phone. Leave them messages. Let them know that you haven't forgotten. It doesn't go away. It's a lifetime struggle.

"It never, ever, ever, goes away. It never goes away," she said, and began to weep.

Associated Press writers Brian Skoloff in Phoenix and P. Solomon Banda, Dan Elliott and Kristen Wyatt in Denver contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

REVISED: It appears the shooter used a long gun.

[artist4perry]

There is an update by the Head State Trooper on NBC Connecticut. He will do another one around 6pm EST.

I agree ebake02... what is wrong with this country. This is such a tragedy. Our children aren't safe in school. Teachers should be paid more than they are now. Will it come to being a School Teacher is a hazardous job? It sure looks that way.

I will stay being a teacher and take the risks and die for my students if it came down to my life vs theirs. Theater shootings, office shootings, stabbings, bombs, really I think regardless of the weapon of choice, there are more nut jobs being raised today in our self absorbed society. If fame you want and your depressed, walk in anywhere with people take out as many people as you can, preferably soft targets like schools, day cares, malls..... The people there have no guns ready to shoot back. They are helpless. They make the headlines and you can die immortalized by the media shark frenzy. Their names should never be released. They should never show their faces. It does not remove the damage or help anything, but get another fame seeking nut job thinking. By the way folks, I am 20 minutes from Jonesboro schools where we had a shooting in the past. The kids who did it pulled the fire alarm, and went outside and picked off everyone who came outside. They did their homework...they thought and planned it out well. It is sad when we have more lock down drills than fire drills in a school.

[artist4perry]

I'm a middle school principal and I have been assaulted twice in the past week by emotionally disturbed kids. Times have changed, sadly, for the worse.

Hang in there. I hear ya. We deal with kids that clearly have mental and emotional issues on a more frequent basis than before. Some are seriously disturbed. I am an art teacher myself.

[G.I.Jim]

I'm so sick of this anti-gun bullshit! Most people who commit crimes use ILLEGAL weapons. The ones that don't now, WILL if it's illegal to own one. If someone at the school had a concealed weapons permit, they could have helped stop these guys. The only thing that would be accomplished by banning guns, is that law abiding citizens can't protect themselves OR their families from assholes in the world like this!

Drunk drivers kill WAY more people than shootings. What's next? Close the damn car companies across the country and ban cars? Give me a fucking break. Lets add spoons and forks to that too because people eat themselves to death with unhealthy foods. Pizza, chicken wings, hamburgers... ban it all.

[artist4perry]

I'm so sick of this anti-gun bullshit! Most people who commit crimes use ILLEGAL weapons. The ones that don't now, WILL if it's illegal to own one. If someone at the school had a concealed weapons permit, they could have helped stop these guys. The only thing that would be accomplished by banning guns, is that law abiding citizens can't protect themselves OR their families from assholes in the world like this!

Drunk drivers kill WAY more people than shootings. What's next? Close the damn car companies across the country and ban cars? Give me a fucking break. Lets add spoons and forks to that too because people eat themselves to death with unhealthy foods. Pizza, chicken wings, hamburgers... ban it all.

I like the idea of having on campus police force. Since the Jonesboro shootings they have had a cop on campus to be there if anything happens. Really if someone wants to hurt you it will be just a matter of when. As teachers and school staff we can only think, plan, and pray for the best. Hugs to the families. Gun control is usually the cry of people in shock who want it to be a simple quick fix. But in a world of crazy people who do what they want and care nothing about right or wrong, can there be a quick fix? No. It is called a senseless crime because nothing about it makes sense. The people who do it are mentally disturbed or crazy. Your asking a quick fix of an insane situation, there is none. We need to get people with mental issues as much help as we can. Usually the signs are there but no one wants to take notice till it is too late.

[Clasicrockldy]

The latest AP article has said... "Three guns were found — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car."

I have no knowledge of guns. Can someone give some info on these weapons? All I know is what is said up there. Doesn't give me any info on how much power these guns have.

[Andrew]

So utterly heartsick to hear this. The freedom in the USA to obtain guns is second to none.

Look up Port Arthur Massacre, happened right here in Tasmania. 35 dead and what followed was a nationwide sweeping gun control legislation and nothing has happened since.

We aren't really a gun crazy country, but it's very hard to get ownership of guns now.

[slucero]

The latest AP article has said... "Three guns were found — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car."

I have no knowledge of guns. Can someone give some info on these weapons? All I know is what is said up there. Doesn't give me any info on how much power these guns have.

Both the Sig and the Glock were likely 9mm... both are handguns, and are also duty issue guns to law enforcement.

The .223 caliber rifle I believe is a Bushmaster AR15.. which is similar in appearance to the military M4 carbine, but not in function. The difference is that the civilian version is NOT automatic.. meaning it only fires one round per trigger pull. what that means is that the gun is no more "deadly" than a Winchester rifle like you've seen in westerns. A shooter still has to pull the trigger once for each shot fired.

From what I've read, the rifle was not used, and was found int he trunk of the shooters car.

He used he Glock and the SigSaur handguns, which at the range he was shooting (5 to 15 feet) would be deadlier than the rifle, because the gun is smaller, lighter and easier to wield and aim.


All that aside.. it really doesn't matter what guns he used.


The simple fact that CT is already very restrictive on firearms laws should highlight that 'gun control' isn't the answer here. What it shows is just the opposite. In fact we really can't name a recent mass-killings that didn't occur in a 'gun free zone'.

Israel also faced this problem and banned firearms in schools, except they at least used common sense. Anyone with a carry permit was told that they were now required to carry their licensed firearm at school. There hasn't been a school shooting in Israel for the last few decades as a result.

[Clasicrockldy]

So utterly heartsick to hear this. The freedom in the USA to obtain guns is second to none.

Look up Port Arthur Massacre, happened right here in Tasmania. 35 dead and what followed was a nationwide sweeping gun control legislation and nothing has happened since.

We aren't really a gun crazy country, but it's very hard to get ownership of guns now.

I was told by a friend in the UK, after they had a school shooting in Dunblane, gun clubs there have stricter regulations on guns. And the school system was overhauled to be more secure. I am wondering what is happening with the human race, that there are more and more mass shootings being done.

[artist4perry]

So utterly heartsick to hear this. The freedom in the USA to obtain guns is second to none.

Look up Port Arthur Massacre, happened right here in Tasmania. 35 dead and what followed was a nationwide sweeping gun control legislation and nothing has happened since.

We aren't really a gun crazy country, but it's very hard to get ownership of guns now.

In the US though, I don't think that bans would stop the flow of guns from Mexico. Drug cartels would love the expansion of illegal trade for money. It is the mindset of self absorbed crazy and mentally challenged people that we are dealing with. Nothing starts a normal healthy person to go shoot up a school. These crazies were years in the making. The choice of weapon is immaterial really. If the mindset is there and the drive to do harm is too it is a matter of killing not how it is done. Bomb building is a click away from a mouse. Do we hear a ban on computers who provide the info? On all the household items that make the bomb? How about knives? I am not making light of peoples need to do SOMETHING to make it stop...but I don't think it will. We are dealing with a self serving, fame seeking, violent, moral free group of people that grow by the day. And I am not saying one has to believe in God...just a basic right and wrong. Our morals in society are eroding daily. People get mad and fight at the stupidest things. Loonies get on a Burger King counter and tear up registers because they are out of chicken nuggets. Girls fight to be on Youtube and brag on what kind of White Trash Queen they are. Senselessness, immoral self indulgence, and insanity reign. I don't own a gun or want one. But it strikes me as naive to think that all this will just go away by banning guns in the states Andrew. It is not Australia at all. With the gang bangers we have here and violent, angry, immoral mindsets we are fast raising here, I don't think it would fix the problem at all. I truly wish it were so simple. Unless you wave a wand and remove all guns everywhere it is not. Especially on a black market as productive as we have in the states.

[Archetype]

Versions of the AR-15 once were outlawed under a U.S. assault weapon ban in 1994. That prohibition expired in 2004 and Congress, in a nod to the political clout of gun enthusiasts, did not renew it.

Bullshit. The AR-15 was 100% legal during the 1994-2004 ban. It just couldn't have a bayonet lug or a muzzle flash suppressor.

[tater1977]

Don't know how accurate the info I heard on the weapons he used is..
but that the weapons were registered to his mom..who was also murdered...

That the school has a security buzz in system...
How did the murderer get access inside the school, who buzzed him in?
Just wonder if , because alledgedly his mom worked there as a teacher, they assumed
he was ok & just let him in?

He went to the principal's office & during the morning announcements with the
announcement system engaged, everyone was hearing the gunshots while
he murdered the principal..

That most teachers had the forethought...to lock their classroom doors &
hide the kids in corners...

[slucero]

Versions of the AR-15 once were outlawed under a U.S. assault weapon ban in 1994. That prohibition expired in 2004 and Congress, in a nod to the political clout of gun enthusiasts, did not renew it.

Bullshit. The AR-15 was 100% legal during the 1994-2004 ban. It just couldn't have a bayonet lug or a muzzle flash suppressor.

You need to learn how to quote..

I quoted someone who posted that as part of an article...

...please don't attribute that to me.

[Rick]

This kid doesn't look like he could hurt a fly. You just never know.

[scarygirl]

I'm so sick of this anti-gun bullshit! Most people who commit crimes use ILLEGAL weapons. The ones that don't now, WILL if it's illegal to own one. If someone at the school had a concealed weapons permit, they could have helped stop these guys. The only thing that would be accomplished by banning guns, is that law abiding citizens can't protect themselves OR their families from assholes in the world like this!

Drunk drivers kill WAY more people than shootings. What's next? Close the damn car companies across the country and ban cars? Give me a fucking break. Lets add spoons and forks to that too because people eat themselves to death with unhealthy foods. Pizza, chicken wings, hamburgers... ban it all.

What he said.

[scarab]

So sad,
I cant comprehend how anyone could kill in cold blood, elementary students trapped in their classroom.

I have no idea what a solution is, but I agree, if someone wants to do this, guns legal or not they will find a away.

Many prayers out to the family, friends, and the whole country.

[AR]

You can take away the guns and these sick fucks will still find a way. Pretty sure suicide bombings are illegal but they happen.

We really need to take a look at our society and what causes these monsters to commit such atrocities. THAT is what needs to be be corrected. It goes much deeper than the tool used in the process.

[artist4perry]

You can take away the guns and these sick fucks will still find a way. Pretty sure suicide bombings are illegal but they happen.

We really need to take a look at our society and what causes these monsters to commit such atrocities. THAT is what needs to be be corrected. It goes much deeper than the tool used in the process.

Agreed.

[Memorex]

I do think there can be limits on magazine size, etc. But unless you completely rid society of every possible means of harm, it's going to happen.

The focus needs to be on mindset. There has been a terrible shift in this country and others regarding how people deal with issues. We've come to expect 22 minute fixes and tend to play down real problems because hey, who has the time? I'm as guilty as the next.

But also, we have to somehow figure out how to recognize that these types of acts are real and can happen. I don't know a single person that I think would do something like this, but I bet everyone that knew that kid would say the same thing. Our brains, our normal brains, don't go there - they can't fathom these types of acts and so you don't think anyone would ever do it. So how do we learn to recognize the signs.

This isn't guns by any means. The act itself has zero to do with guns. That he was able to get or possess his mother's guns is absolutely an issue and that has to be dealt with. But for a person to stand there and kill one innocent 5 year old after the next, that's not guns - that's illness. That's a defect. And I think more and more kids are starting to grow up finding violence an acceptable way to deal with their turmoil.

I'm thankful that this type of violence has never touched my life and I'm thankful that my kids are home safe tonight. But I have no idea how to protect them from this randomness.

[Rick]

You can take away the guns and these sick fucks will still find a way. Pretty sure suicide bombings are illegal but they happen.

We really need to take a look at our society and what causes these monsters to commit such atrocities. THAT is what needs to be be corrected. It goes much deeper than the tool used in the process.

It's got to be what their brains are getting filled with. If this kid sat in front of a computer every day, playing some war game where he's constantly killing someone, I can't imagine that not having an effect. I'm anxious to see if they report anything about what his daily routine was.

[Liam]

Take away xbox and ps3 for people under the age of 25. They obviously can't handle it. Think I'm joking, but I'm not really.

[TRAGChick]

For what it's worth...

I'm IN CONNECTICUT....and I LIVED in Newtown....
...Newtown, CT is one of the most "Mayberry"esque towns you'll ever see / hear about.

Which makes this ALL THE MORE FUCKED UP.

Today has gone on forever.....I'm in the Twilight Zone....

I have no answers....I just want to give the World some perspective...if it helps...sigh.....

[Rick]

Take away xbox and ps3 for people under the age of 25. They obviously can't handle it. Think I'm joking, but I'm not really.

I don't think games like Super Mario Brothers and stuff like that could be harmful, but the ones where all you do is kill people, that's what worries me. And it's a huge thing anymore to play online with countless others. I can get behind the strategies you learn, but I can't help but think that the killing has to have a bad effect. The realism of these games is pretty incredible.

[artist4perry]

For what it's worth...

I'm IN CONNECTICUT....and I LIVED in Newtown....
...Newtown, CT is one of the most "Mayberry"esque towns you'll ever see / hear about.

Which makes this ALL THE MORE FUCKED UP.

Today has gone on forever.....I'm in the Twilight Zone....

I have no answers....I just want to give the World some perspective...if it helps...sigh.....

I will tell you that like 9/11 the Jonesboro shooting..........about a 20 minutes drive away from my home, the shootings at the mall, the theater, and all the other schools it seems with time we mend. Is it senseless? Of course. All we can do is give each other a hug and pray for the madness to stop. Unfortunately senseless tragedy is part of the world through out history. Hugs to all of you and your families tonight.

[Monker]

Take away xbox and ps3 for people under the age of 25. They obviously can't handle it. Think I'm joking, but I'm not really.

I don't think games like Super Mario Brothers and stuff like that could be harmful, but the ones where all you do is kill people, that's what worries me. And it's a huge thing anymore to play online with countless others. I can get behind the strategies you learn, but I can't help but think that the killing has to have a bad effect. The realism of these games is pretty incredible.

This is off the wall.

The truth is the games like Call of Duty and Halo sell in the millions. In fact, take those two franchises and they have probably sold more copies then Journey has sold albums.

So, out kid out of those tens of millions of kids, one goes and does something like this.

It's not the games...any more the Doom or The Matrix caused Columbine.

It's the total attitude in our culture that killing and death has no consequence...and I don't mean "legal", as in death penalty.

The evidence is in these very posts...people saying shooting and killing this kid is the answer. Filling a crowded theater with gun owners was the way to stop the Batman killer. Talk about a person desensitized from violence, what the hell kinda games and movies are YOU guys watching where you have the same thoughts about judgement, killing and death that this assumed crazy kid had? It's really no different.

This is what I said friends FB page....and I'm going to leave it at this because this thread has gone loopy:

Well, I think I understand and I'll take a different angle. IMO, the consequences of death are misrepresented in our culture. Until you have someone shot dead beside you, or have a gun pointed at you, or have shot someone yourself, you do not know what it's like. In the movies and TV and video games, someone gets killed and you move on to the next scene. That's not life, it's fantasy. There are real consequences for everybody involved. Those consequences are very rarely depicted in our media. And, when they are, it's at a distance...and you can't really, truly, understand unless you were there. It's not glamorous or cool or anything like that to carry a gun. And, it's a mental issue if you have a desire to point at someone and kill them. That is how things like this should be approached...instead it will turn into a debate about gun control and most gun owners are not mental cases like this shooter. So, nothing progressive will happen as a result. But, that's just my opinion.