It's Christmas for the haters...

[brywool]

Looks like they're pretty much finished making new music at this point. Great...
Must be a happy day for so many here.
Seems like Neal's desire to do a heavier album pretty much killed the band, and Cain pretty much lays the blame on him publicly. Ugh.
I remember when Arrival and Revelation came out, so many bitched that the albums were too light.
So they do something heavy and everyone bitched that it was too heavy.
For me, if they're not making NEW music, I don't think I'm interested anymore.
This blows.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/jonathan ... ck=fbshare

In addition to its always-packed tour schedule, Journey stayed pretty busy in the studio during the first decade of the new century, releasing four albums (2001′s ‘Arrival,’ 2005′s ‘Generations,’ 2008′s ‘Revelation,’ and 2011′s ‘Eclipse’) in a 10-year span. Sadly, however, it appears they might be finished recording for the foreseeable future.

Keyboard player Jonathan Cain weighed in on the subject during a recent interview with the Pulse of Radio, saying, “We’re not convinced the market will bear another CD from us, y’know? And it’s so much work to make one. Maybe we get a soundtrack shot with a movie.”

Cain went on to hint at a bit of dissension in the creative ranks with the ‘Eclipse’ release, recalling that the “last album we made was a departure. It was Neal [Schon's] ‘I wanna do one this way once’ — and so we did. We did a heavy, rock n’ roll record. And it kinda wasn’t received very well here in the States and they kinda liked it in Europe and that’s kinda what I thought was gonna happen and it barely sold 100,000.”

While a lot of bands in Journey’s peer group would love to sell 100,000 copies of anything, Cain openly admitted that the band saw it as a setback — particularly after ‘Revelation’ sold eight times as well in the U.S. alone. “After all that time and money, y’know, what are we doing here, y’know?” he asked. “So, we have a great catalogue here, right now to play. We got a lot of songs that we’re not even playing. So, we’re like, ‘What’s the point of makin’ a new CD right now?’ If anything, we’ll make an EP.”

[Jana]

"For me, if they're not making NEW music, I don't think I'm interested anymore. This blows."

I agree, because it's not like they are playing two-hour shows and really playing a lot of variety in their great back classc catalogue, including Arrival and even Revelation, to make longtime fans happy. The do almost the same ol' same ol' every year and now are leaving off even the newer music from Eclipse. Why not use a couple of the Journeyesqe songs off there to promote the album, like Anything is Possible, shorter versions of maybe Edge of the Moment, or Someone is Journeyesque. Resonate, please. Anything but the City of Hope. I appreciate newer music by older bands, even if I only like five or six songs out of the whole thing. That's still five or six new songs from a band I love, but I get the not doing it if it's not cost effective or no backing.

Even if they did an EP, I would be happy. Put out four great new songs. But I do understand what Jon is saying, the expense and time if they aren't selling albums and no label backing, what are they supposed to do, really?

In that case, just give us an eclectic show that we haven't heard a thousand times or a two-hour show where you can do a lot more musically with your musical catalogue. I would love to hear Trial By Fire, Still They Ride again (Dean), some Arrival, some Departure. Do a two-hour show next time and use Deen for three songs to give Arnel a break and because we love hearing from Deen, do some easier songs that don't strain Arnel's voice the whole night mixed in that are more in his wheelhouse now from Revelation, a couple of Eclipse songs. Where is Mother Father? Is it gone? Is it too hard for Deen now? Do a two-hour tour with Heart opening and I will go.

[Gideon]

We call it the dirty dozen, but I honestly think the concert going crowd cares for only three or four of them anymore. At the past two shows I attended, the crowd stood during most of the DD, but only came alive for Faithfully, Open Arms, and DSB.

[Jana]

We call it the dirty dozen, but I honestly think the concert going crowd cares for only three or four of them anymore. At the past two shows I attended, the crowd stood during most of the DD, but only came alive for Faithfully, Open Arms, and DSB.

See, I agree. The casual fan has now been to their shows several times over the last few years. They don't want to hear the same setlist. The casual fan is going to pass also because they've heard it before and it's even stale for them. It's not like they don't have other recognizable songs or hits from the classic era. They can still do hits but be more creative with the setlist with what they pick and the deeper cuts they add.

They didn't even stand for Separate Ways? Wow.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't remember anyone in the band pointing fingers after Generations flopped. Fans may not like Eclipse's harder more guitar-oriented direction, but at least Neal took a few chances, and had a creative idea. Gens was just a confused unfocused and unsatisfying album.

[brywool]

I don't remember anyone in the band pointing fingers after Generations flopped. Fans may not like Eclipse's harder more guitar-oriented direction, but at least Neal took a few chances, and had a creative idea. Gens was just a confused unfocused and unsatisfying album.

"at least Neal took a few chance"

BINGO. If the songs on Eclipse had been shortened just a bit, I think it could've done better. While I'm a huge guitar solo freak, I think that in a lot of spots, the solos went on much too long and I know that in "She's a Mystery" (which I like quite a bit) there's just one too many verses there. People just don't have that kind of attention span anymore (which sucks actually). Regarding City of Hope, I have no problem with that song. I certainly prefer it to a lot of the lightweight stuff from ROR, including "I'll Be Alright Without You" which was SUCH a NON-JOURNEY type of tune when it came out. It's "okay" but why it's a classic Journey tune and "Eyes of a Woman" isn't is beyond me.

Also, regarding "We're only going to do EPs"- Why is it that Neal can go in and knock out 3 albums in a week, but Journey finds it too difficult to record an entire album of new music? Jeez, you know- SO WHAT if it doesn't sell a bazillion copies. Sell it through your website, keep ALL THE PROFIT, and let those fans that really want new stuff buy it. AND keep things interesting for the band. I have the same frustration with Styx. They've stopped creating new music and it is such a drag to me. I just hate seeing my favorite bands become has beens. ugh.

[Jana]

I don't remember anyone in the band pointing fingers after Generations flopped. Fans may not like Eclipse's harder more guitar-oriented direction, but at least Neal took a few chances, and had a creative idea. Gens was just a confused unfocused and unsatisfying album.

"at least Neal took a few chance"

BINGO. If the songs on Eclipse had been shortened just a bit, I think it could've done better. While I'm a huge guitar solo freak, I think that in a lot of spots, the solos went on much too long and I know that in "She's a Mystery" (which I like quite a bit) there's just one too many verses there. People just don't have that kind of attention span anymore (which sucks actually). Regarding City of Hope, I have no problem with that song. I certainly prefer it to a lot of the lightweight stuff from ROR, including "I'll Be Alright Without You" which was SUCH a NON-JOURNEY type of tune when it came out. It's "okay" but why it's a classic Journey tune and "Eyes of a Woman" isn't is beyond me.

Also, regarding "We're only going to do EPs"- Why is it that Neal can go in and knock out 3 albums in a week, but Journey finds it too difficult to record an entire album of new music? Jeez, you know- SO WHAT if it doesn't sell a bazillion copies. Sell it through your website, keep ALL THE PROFIT, and let those fans that really want new stuff buy it. AND keep things interesting for the band. I have the same frustration with Styx. They've stopped creating new music and it is such a drag to me. I just hate seeing my favorite bands become has beens. ugh.

Good ideas. I agree. Tears for Fears hasn't put out a new album in eight years and say it's because of no backing. Well, Curt puts out a lot of music on his own on his website. It's just he isn't the creative genius behind Tears for Fears, nor do his vocals hold up without Roland's harmony and hasn't the songwriting ability Roland has and composing. So I have zero interest in Curt without Tears for Fears. But why can't Roland and/or Curt fly to the other's country and knock out some songs for the fans. Roland has his own studio built on his property and they have another studio of one of the band members they use in America. It's just not that hard to do since they don't need to rent studio time, and then sell it on your own website.

Journey could do the same.

[Eric]

I need new music to be interested. Bottom line.

[Yoda]

I commend Neal Schon for wanting to do a more guitar driven style Journey album. I thought Frontiers was more guitar driven than Escape, and I actually prefer Frontiers over Escape. I think what Brywool said about the guitar solos and so forth is on the right track of what I'm thinking. When it comes to heavy guitar driven albums done right, I tend to think back to Petra's last full studio album, Jekyll and Hyde. That was, by far, their heaviest album ever made, and I loved it from start to finish. They had about ten songs (10 or 11) that had nice hooks to each song, and you could listen to the album within 30 minutes. The songs were heavy, yet simple, but very "hook" oriented as well.

For me, Eclipse just seemed kind of long despite there only being 11 songs and one instrumental. I just always had some type of disconnect with the songs on this album - unless any other Journey albums I had ever listened to. I don't know why, but I did. Kind of wished they would have tried this type of album right out of the gate after Perry left, and maybe finished up (if this is the last of new music) with a good classic album. I don't know. Both Perry and Schon had the opportunity to do their "own" Journey album in this band. I think what is important is that if you like the album, keep listening to it. If not, listen to the others.

[brywool]

I need new music to be interested. Bottom line.

YUP

[Deb]

I don't remember anyone in the band pointing fingers after Generations flopped. Fans may not like Eclipse's harder more guitar-oriented direction, but at least Neal took a few chances, and had a creative idea. Gens was just a confused unfocused and unsatisfying album.

Not a big fan of the album, but THAT I agree with. If Neal wants to rock harder, I wouldn't mind seeing him work with Eric again.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzfaOS-2xQU

LOL, some pretty cool old pics in there, good one of Eddie VH, Eric and Neal.....pretty young.

[slucero]

The cost of recording these days is a fraction of what it used to be and Jon OWNS a commercial studio in Nashville for fucks sake.. they are wealthy enough that they can pay their own way to Nashville and write & record for a few months.. They can do their own engineering too.. it isn't like they don't know their way around the studio...

In monetary terms compared to their wealth.. its literally "free"...

Most pro-mixers charge per song, so this isn't really gonna break the bank for them.

[Don]

The cost of recording these days is a fraction of what it used to be and Jon OWNS a commercial studio in Nashville for fucks sake.. they are wealthy enough that they can pay their own way to Nashville and write & record for a few months.. They can do their own engineering too.. it isn't like they don't know their way around the studio...

In monetary terms compared to their wealth.. its literally "free"...

Most pro-mixers charge per song, so this isn't really gonna break the bank for them.

A self release is easy If they got on board with iTunes like a lot of artists now days but Journey got spoiled by the physical media deals they got with Wal-Mart and have never truly embraced the digital download age like others.
Wal-Mart payed for those big money giveaways in the end. The guy who orchestrated those packages is long gone.

It's funny. A lot of people on here also said that sales didn't matter and the band knew that and wanted to make Eclipse anyway. Now, two years later, it seems that Jon is singing a different tune.
Maybe now that he's over 60, Cain's not so quick on the idea to throw money away just on an artist's whim.

[jrnyman28]

1 "Eclipse" was a great idea.

Neal has been talking about a rockin' Journey album since finding Augeri. Kalodner picks all the most "Journey" sounding, radio-friendly material for "Arrival"...it under-performed. The band returns with Red 13, an EP I love. It rocks but the indie production and lack of hooks turn off many fans. A poor release plan kills any chance of sales. "Generations" was a forced situation under terrible conditions for the band. No direction or continuity but had more balance song-wise. Finally it seemed like Neal was gonna get it right with JSS: cohesion and strength with vocals. But it wasn't the high tenor we were accustomed to. With the firing of JSS the announcment from Jon of the return to the "legacy" sound it felt like Jon pulled a power play. But maybe there was a condition that after "Revelation" Neal would get the real rock record he wanted with no other excuses.

2 Expectations of Neal solo are completely different than in Journey. In Journey Neal needs reigned in, directed, FOCUSSED.

3 I remember Kevin sayiing there was a lot of butting heads between Neal and Jon while recording "Eclipse"

Maybe Jon just feels Journey is too old/experienced of a band to have to work this hard to make albums.

4 Thishas struggled to find their identity since the departure of Perry. Jon appears to be more business oriented, pushing for the most commercial (and financially rewarding) choices. Putting the most butts in the seats. While Neal is more about the ego, "what Neal wants", now. Honestly, I thnk that is why they needed the third person (Perry or Herbie or someone else. What the hell did Irving do?) While Neal's playing needed to be reigned in, I wish some of his ideas would have been upheld live. Play more new material. Play less ballads. Had they stuck with that Journey would've lost live audience in the beginning. But staying true, they could've grown and they would've been in a more realistic place now.

Journey, for all their "successes" and struggles overcome, were poorly managed. I think too many people just let Neal (and Jon) do what they want. But it was like a pendulum swinging back and forth instead of gaining ground and momentum. And now it seems (at least) Jon has had enough...

[brywool]

The cost of recording these days is a fraction of what it used to be and Jon OWNS a commercial studio in Nashville for fucks sake.. they are wealthy enough that they can pay their own way to Nashville and write & record for a few months.. They can do their own engineering too.. it isn't like they don't know their way around the studio...

In monetary terms compared to their wealth.. its literally "free"...

Most pro-mixers charge per song, so this isn't really gonna break the bank for them.

exactly