Jon Cain on Journey's Recording Future

[Gideon]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Look, the truth is, management probably lost faith in Journey when Steve Perry left the band.

Maybe if they kept the original Manager who created the band, made them successful, and also wanted Perry kicked out after Frontiers (ie Herbie) they wouldn't be in this predicament.

[Yoda]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

It's fine if you want to attack the notion of what I said, but to throw a personal attack out toward me because you disagree with what I say is flat out immature and disrespectful. You want to debate the merits of my post, fine, but keep your childish comments to yourself.

[Gideon]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

It's fine if you want to attack the notion of what I said, but to throw a personal attack out toward me because you disagree with what I say is flat out immature and disrespectful. You want to debate the merits of my post, fine, but keep your childish comments to yourself.

It was a harmless joke. As far as I know, you don't suffer from ED. But if you do, remember "size matters not."

[Yoda]

Look, the truth is, management probably lost faith in Journey when Steve Perry left the band.

Maybe if they kept the original Manager who created the band, made them successful, and also wanted Perry kicked out after Frontiers (ie Herbie) they wouldn't be in this predicament.

Well, hindsight is 20/20. But at the time, they were still considered at the height of their success, and I don't think kicking Steve Perry out of the band at that time would have ever been anything the members truly wanted to see. However, if we fast forward about a decade later, after Perry leaves the band again, Journey SHOULD have pushed to get Herbie back. From there, Herbie would have found a way to push this band more without Steve Perry - or at least exhaust every effort in trying.

[Jana]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

It's fine if you want to attack the notion of what I said, but to throw a personal attack out toward me because you disagree with what I say is flat out immature and disrespectful. You want to debate the merits of my post, fine, but keep your childish comments to yourself.

It was a harmless joke. As far as I know, you don't suffer from ED. But if you do, remember "size matters not."

Is that what your girlfrend tells you?

[Gideon]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

It's fine if you want to attack the notion of what I said, but to throw a personal attack out toward me because you disagree with what I say is flat out immature and disrespectful. You want to debate the merits of my post, fine, but keep your childish comments to yourself.

It was a harmless joke. As far as I know, you don't suffer from ED. But if you do, remember "size matters not."

Is that what your girlfrend tells you?

I didn't hear you complain.

[slucero]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

It's fine if you want to attack the notion of what I said, but to throw a personal attack out toward me because you disagree with what I say is flat out immature and disrespectful. You want to debate the merits of my post, fine, but keep your childish comments to yourself.

It was a harmless joke. As far as I know, you don't suffer from ED. But if you do, remember "size matters not."

whilst I agree with you on the topic of the debate Gid.. that was a personal attack, not a harmless joke.. because had it been a harmless joke.. it would not have been directed at, and been belittling of, him.

[Gideon]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

It's fine if you want to attack the notion of what I said, but to throw a personal attack out toward me because you disagree with what I say is flat out immature and disrespectful. You want to debate the merits of my post, fine, but keep your childish comments to yourself.

It was a harmless joke. As far as I know, you don't suffer from ED. But if you do, remember "size matters not."

whilst I agree with you on the topic of the debate Gid.. that was a personal attack, not a harmless joke.. because had it been a harmless joke.. it would not have been directed at, and been belittling of, him.

Are you serious?

First, I didn't wish erectile dysfunction on him nor did I accuse him of having it.
Second, if what I said was a "personal insult," so too was the ageist remark by our resident Jedi Master that precipitated it. My response might have been more blatant, but it's definitely pedestrian compared to the slew of barbs exchanged by posters here since time immemorial.

This isn't the first encounter he and I have had. This place was a trial by fire for its posters and I learned the rules from Deano, et al.: you throw a jab, expect one in return. The fact that I hit slightly harder is irrelevant. He'll adapt.

[slucero]

It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success.

The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction. This argument has been thoroughly trashed by myself and others, but more importantly, the Great Gilded Voice himself (I refer you to my sig). It's not common knowledge, it's myth.

It's fine if you want to attack the notion of what I said, but to throw a personal attack out toward me because you disagree with what I say is flat out immature and disrespectful. You want to debate the merits of my post, fine, but keep your childish comments to yourself.

It was a harmless joke. As far as I know, you don't suffer from ED. But if you do, remember "size matters not."

whilst I agree with you on the topic of the debate Gid.. that was a personal attack, not a harmless joke.. because had it been a harmless joke.. it would not have been directed at, and been belittling of, him.

Are you serious?

First, I didn't wish erectile dysfunction on him nor did I accuse him of having it.
Second, if what I said was a "personal insult," so too was the ageist remark by our resident Jedi Master that precipitated it. My response might have been more blatant, but it's definitely pedestrian compared to the slew of barbs exchanged by posters here since time immemorial.

This isn't the first encounter he and I have had. This place was a trial by fire for its posters and I learned the rules from Deano, et al.: you throw a jab, expect one in return. The fact that I hit slightly harder is irrelevant. He'll adapt.

Yeah I'm serious.... and I didn't think you'd intentionally wish ED on any one.. that could be wishing some uncomfortable future karma on oneself..

The difference with Yoda's ageist remark (It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 ) is that it is directed at himself, and it wasn't derogatory at all, whilst your remark (The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction.) was squarely aimed at him.. and derogatory in it's context and use (just as your "Jedi Master" remark is also).

and yes he'll adapt.. as you have obviously hardened....

[Gideon]

Yeah I'm serious.... and I didn't think you'd intentionally wish ED on any one.. that could be wishing some uncomfortable future karma on oneself..

Well, that and it's just plain mean.

The difference with Yoda's ageist remark (It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 ) is that it is directed at himself, and it wasn't derogatory at all, whilst your remark (The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction.) was squarely aimed at him.. and derogatory in it's context and use

I suggest rereading it. Yoda's remark condescends anyone below age 30 as apparently being unable to grasp "common knowledge" (i.e. baseless myth). You're focusing on pronouns at the expense of the full implications of the sentence itself.

(just as your "Jedi Master" remark is also).

It's a Star Wars reference. You're trying too hard.

and yes he'll adapt.. as you have obviously hardened....

It happens. It's not like you haven't lobbed insults my way in times past. Yoda made an ageist remark about my opinion and stance; I hit him back. He has three options: (1) Take it and move on, (2) complain to Andrew, (3) keep those sort of remarks to himself. Painting me as the bad guy is an exercise in futility.


By the way, don't think I didn't notice your exquisite choice of words there.

[slucero]

I suggest rereading it. Yoda's remark condescends anyone below age 30 as apparently being unable to grasp "common knowledge" (i.e. baseless myth). You're focusing on pronouns at the expense of the full implications of the sentence itself.

I don't read it as condescending.. the truth is most young fans don't know Perry's contribution to Journey other than he was the singer.. (and I'm not discounting JC or NS..)

You are far more knowledgeable about Journey than most, dare I say, "common" folk.

You're trying too hard.

You really didn't have to post that though did you?... and it certainly wasn't directed at me..

and yes he'll adapt.. as you have obviously hardened....

It happens. It's not like you haven't lobbed insults my way in times past. Yoda made an ageist remark about my opinion and stance; I hit him back. He has three options: (1) Take it and move on, (2) complain to Andrew, (3) keep those sort of remarks to himself. Painting me as the bad guy is an exercise in futility.

By the way, don't think I didn't notice your exquisite choice of words there.

Sure I've lobbed crap at ya.. and it's because I've seen every incarnation of the band post Fleishman (except JSS) that I actually GET your perspective. Having seen the band from literally the beginning really puts into perspective the less faceted group the band has become since then... and it's not your fault you were too young to have seen the band in their hey-dey. There is also no way you can understand the experience those of us have with the earlier iterations of the band.



... and you did say you hit "harder".. I was just agreeing with ya..

[Monker]

Look, the truth is, management probably lost faith in Journey when Steve Perry left the band.

Maybe if they kept the original Manager who created the band, made them successful, and also wanted Perry kicked out after Frontiers (ie Herbie) they wouldn't be in this predicament.

Well, hindsight is 20/20. But at the time, they were still considered at the height of their success, and I don't think kicking Steve Perry out of the band at that time would have ever been anything the members truly wanted to see. However, if we fast forward about a decade later, after Perry leaves the band again, Journey SHOULD have pushed to get Herbie back. From there, Herbie would have found a way to push this band more without Steve Perry - or at least exhaust every effort in trying.

If you don't believe the band wanted/pushed to get Herbie back then you are under 30 AND have erectile dysfunction.

Why would Herbie come back to a band that favored Steve Perry over him in the mid-80's, and essentially fired him, Gregg Rolie and Kevin Chalfant in order to get Perry back? Do you really think Herbie is crazy enough to allow himself to be talked out of retirement to reenter the lunacy named Journey? No way, would never happen. He'll rejoin the band when Steve Perry does.

[steveo777]

Look, the truth is, management probably lost faith in Journey when Steve Perry left the band.

Maybe if they kept the original Manager who created the band, made them successful, and also wanted Perry kicked out after Frontiers (ie Herbie) they wouldn't be in this predicament.

Well, hindsight is 20/20. But at the time, they were still considered at the height of their success, and I don't think kicking Steve Perry out of the band at that time would have ever been anything the members truly wanted to see. However, if we fast forward about a decade later, after Perry leaves the band again, Journey SHOULD have pushed to get Herbie back. From there, Herbie would have found a way to push this band more without Steve Perry - or at least exhaust every effort in trying.

If you don't believe the band wanted/pushed to get Herbie back then you are under 30 AND have erectile dysfunction.

Why would Herbie come back to a band that favored Steve Perry over him in the mid-80's, and essentially fired him, Gregg Rolie and Kevin Chalfant in order to get Perry back? Do you really think Herbie is crazy enough to allow himself to be talked out of retirement to reenter the lunacy named Journey? No way, would never happen. He'll rejoin the band when Steve Perry does.

Translation for the slow folk: NEVER

[slucero]

The business has radically changed, there isn't enough money in it anymore, and Herbie's smart enough to know (since he knew the 1st time) that the magic of Journey was the writing triumvirate of Schon, Perry and Cain, and without a lead singer singer who is an equal partner as a writer... Schon can't be constrained and the songs will suffer,

[Yoda]

Yeah I'm serious.... and I didn't think you'd intentionally wish ED on any one.. that could be wishing some uncomfortable future karma on oneself..

Well, that and it's just plain mean.

The difference with Yoda's ageist remark (It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 ) is that it is directed at himself, and it wasn't derogatory at all, whilst your remark (The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction.) was squarely aimed at him.. and derogatory in it's context and use

I suggest rereading it. Yoda's remark condescends anyone below age 30 as apparently being unable to grasp "common knowledge" (i.e. baseless myth). You're focusing on pronouns at the expense of the full implications of the sentence itself.

(just as your "Jedi Master" remark is also).

It's a Star Wars reference. You're trying too hard.

and yes he'll adapt.. as you have obviously hardened....

It happens. It's not like you haven't lobbed insults my way in times past. Yoda made an ageist remark about my opinion and stance; I hit him back. He has three options: (1) Take it and move on, (2) complain to Andrew, (3) keep those sort of remarks to himself. Painting me as the bad guy is an exercise in futility.


By the way, don't think I didn't notice your exquisite choice of words there.

Why in the world must you always derail threads by trying to pick a fight with people who you don't agree with? I've seen you do it time and time again. Instead of respectfully disagreeing and giving a well thought out, mature response, you almost always post something to belittle that person over. There is absolutely no reason to throw your senseless "Jabs", at me or anybody else, because frankly, I didn't post anything to deserve such a rude statement from you. And don't compare yourself to Deano. The rest of us got Deano's sense of humor and appreciated it. Nobody appreciates yours except yourself.

[Gideon]

I didn't compare myself to Deano at all, I said he opened my eyes to how this place works. It's comments like that that earn you my remarks. If you don't like them, don't invite them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yeah I'm serious.... and I didn't think you'd intentionally wish ED on any one.. that could be wishing some uncomfortable future karma on oneself..

Well, that and it's just plain mean.

The difference with Yoda's ageist remark (It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 ) is that it is directed at himself, and it wasn't derogatory at all, whilst your remark (The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction.) was squarely aimed at him.. and derogatory in it's context and use

I suggest rereading it. Yoda's remark condescends anyone below age 30 as apparently being unable to grasp "common knowledge" (i.e. baseless myth). You're focusing on pronouns at the expense of the full implications of the sentence itself.

(just as your "Jedi Master" remark is also).

It's a Star Wars reference. You're trying too hard.

and yes he'll adapt.. as you have obviously hardened....

It happens. It's not like you haven't lobbed insults my way in times past. Yoda made an ageist remark about my opinion and stance; I hit him back. He has three options: (1) Take it and move on, (2) complain to Andrew, (3) keep those sort of remarks to himself. Painting me as the bad guy is an exercise in futility.


By the way, don't think I didn't notice your exquisite choice of words there.

Why in the world must you always derail threads by trying to pick a fight with people who you don't agree with? I've seen you do it time and time again. Instead of respectfully disagreeing and giving a well thought out, mature response, you almost always post something to belittle that person over. There is absolutely no reason to throw your senseless "Jabs", at me or anybody else, because frankly, I didn't post anything to deserve such a rude statement from you. And don't compare yourself to Deano. The rest of us got Deano's sense of humor and appreciated it. Nobody appreciates yours except yourself.

Deano was, is, and always shall remain the gold standard in hilariously lewd online rable rousing. But I think Gideon raises some valid points from time to time. As Andrew might say, I don't think he is taking the piss at all.

[Yoda]

I didn't compare myself to Deano at all, I said he opened my eyes to how this place works. It's comments like that that earn you my remarks. If you don't like them, don't invite them.

Maybe you should take your own advice them since you're the one who often likes to throw jabs, and especially in this case, when it was not warranted.

[Yoda]

Yeah I'm serious.... and I didn't think you'd intentionally wish ED on any one.. that could be wishing some uncomfortable future karma on oneself..

Well, that and it's just plain mean.

The difference with Yoda's ageist remark (It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 ) is that it is directed at himself, and it wasn't derogatory at all, whilst your remark (The fact that you're over the age of 30 only means that you're edging ever closer to erectile dysfunction.) was squarely aimed at him.. and derogatory in it's context and use

I suggest rereading it. Yoda's remark condescends anyone below age 30 as apparently being unable to grasp "common knowledge" (i.e. baseless myth). You're focusing on pronouns at the expense of the full implications of the sentence itself.

(just as your "Jedi Master" remark is also).

It's a Star Wars reference. You're trying too hard.

and yes he'll adapt.. as you have obviously hardened....

It happens. It's not like you haven't lobbed insults my way in times past. Yoda made an ageist remark about my opinion and stance; I hit him back. He has three options: (1) Take it and move on, (2) complain to Andrew, (3) keep those sort of remarks to himself. Painting me as the bad guy is an exercise in futility.


By the way, don't think I didn't notice your exquisite choice of words there.

Why in the world must you always derail threads by trying to pick a fight with people who you don't agree with? I've seen you do it time and time again. Instead of respectfully disagreeing and giving a well thought out, mature response, you almost always post something to belittle that person over. There is absolutely no reason to throw your senseless "Jabs", at me or anybody else, because frankly, I didn't post anything to deserve such a rude statement from you. And don't compare yourself to Deano. The rest of us got Deano's sense of humor and appreciated it. Nobody appreciates yours except yourself.

Deano was, is, and always shall remain the gold standard in hilariously lewd online rable rousing. But I think Gideon raises some valid points from time to time. As Andrew might say, I don't think he is taking the piss at all.

And in that case, like I said before, argue the merits of my point of view, but don't do it in a way that one feels they need to personally attack another individual just to get their point across.

[Yoda]

If you don't believe the band wanted/pushed to get Herbie back then you are under 30 AND have erectile dysfunction.

I never stated I didn't believe so. I had no idea if the band tried to get HH back or didn't after Perry left in '97. If so, I'm glad they attempted to, because I think they would have had a better shot at being more successful. I'm not really getting the temper from some of you guys on this board? I'm being very sincere with my thoughts on the subject. I'm not trying to talk bad about somebody's dead granny.

Why would Herbie come back to a band that favored Steve Perry over him in the mid-80's, and essentially fired him, Gregg Rolie and Kevin Chalfant in order to get Perry back? Do you really think Herbie is crazy enough to allow himself to be talked out of retirement to reenter the lunacy named Journey? No way, would never happen. He'll rejoin the band when Steve Perry does.

If you guys would actually take time to read and comprehend what I was asking, I'm pretty much getting to the same point. #1, you admit that the band favored Steve Perry over HH in the mid-80's. SO, why is that? If Steve Perry was THAT expendable in '84, why did they NOT make a change at that point? WHY, didn't they just go with another lead singer when Steve Perry quite toward the latter part of the 80's? I can't make it any more simple than that. What type of power did Steve Perry have over the band that kept him in it and pretty much as a pretty major part in terms of musical direction - at least after Frontiers? I'm not arguing why Herbert didn't come back to the band after whatever supposedly happened with him and Chalfant in the early 90's. I wouldn't want to come back to the band either if they dumped me after being a key part of their earlier success.

[Gideon]

I didn't compare myself to Deano at all, I said he opened my eyes to how this place works. It's comments like that that earn you my remarks. If you don't like them, don't invite them.

Maybe you should take your own advice them since you're the one who often likes to throw jabs, and especially in this case, when it was not warranted.

By all means, continue bitching about thread derailment and insults while derailing the thread and tossing insults.

This is pretty simple: you condescended, I responded. If you have a problem with that, maybe you shouldn't condescend?

[Yoda]

I didn't compare myself to Deano at all, I said he opened my eyes to how this place works. It's comments like that that earn you my remarks. If you don't like them, don't invite them.

Maybe you should take your own advice them since you're the one who often likes to throw jabs, and especially in this case, when it was not warranted.

By all means, continue bitching about thread derailment and insults while derailing the thread and tossing insults.

This is pretty simple: you condescended, I responded. If you have a problem with that, maybe you shouldn't condescend?

I didn't condescend. Care to explain how my response was condescending so that I can clarify it for you?

[Gideon]

I didn't compare myself to Deano at all, I said he opened my eyes to how this place works. It's comments like that that earn you my remarks. If you don't like them, don't invite them.

Maybe you should take your own advice them since you're the one who often likes to throw jabs, and especially in this case, when it was not warranted.

By all means, continue bitching about thread derailment and insults while derailing the thread and tossing insults.

This is pretty simple: you condescended, I responded. If you have a problem with that, maybe you shouldn't condescend?

I didn't condescend. Care to explain how my response was condescending so that I can clarify it for you?

The 30 year old comment.

[Yoda]

I didn't compare myself to Deano at all, I said he opened my eyes to how this place works. It's comments like that that earn you my remarks. If you don't like them, don't invite them.

Maybe you should take your own advice them since you're the one who often likes to throw jabs, and especially in this case, when it was not warranted.

By all means, continue bitching about thread derailment and insults while derailing the thread and tossing insults.

This is pretty simple: you condescended, I responded. If you have a problem with that, maybe you shouldn't condescend?

I didn't condescend. Care to explain how my response was condescending so that I can clarify it for you?

The 30 year old comment.

The "30 year old comment" was made in the context that those of us who were at an old enough age to "live through" a certain decade tend to have a more "first hand" experience of things in that decade before any "closed door information" was available to cloud our judgments. Specifically, with Journey. Most of us old enough to experience Journey's greatest achievements, were able to do so prior to any first/second/tertiary knowledge of the members themselves; i.e. their personalities, how they got along with each other and management, personal lives, etc... We got to experience this band's "classic hits" without thoughts of, "Wow, that Perry is a prick" or "That Schon guy can't keep a wife", etc...most of us fans back then didn't care about that stuff, we gave recognition based on what they brought to the band, professionally. Now certainly, that changed with a lot of folks when the "dark history" of the band started forming, but that's not my point.

Now, I'm not saying younger fans or newer fans who were not privy to the first hand experiences don't also appreciate members, past and present, for their professional contributions to the band. However, you guys, especially growing up during the internet "instant information" era, already had access to a lot of the "closed door" information leaked to the internet, and opinions formed prior to you even becoming a fan. So, it's fair to say that often times, once that history has been written, the stories have been told and re-hashed time and time again from this person or that person, the new guy (or new girl) that comes along is getting this information at the same time they are discovering the band. So, opinions are going to be formed, through second hand and tertiary stories from others, about the members on a personal level at the same time you discover their professional work. And as often times as human nature does, if one has formed a negative opinion about a person, he or she will find themselves looking for reasons to discount their professional qualities as well. I've done it. You've done it. Everybody at some point in their lives, has done it.

None of that was ever meant to be condescending at all, but just common sense as to human nature and human experience. For me, I tend to try my best to focus on the band, and its alumni members' professional contributions and forget about all the stupid crap people are going to dwell on that is none of our business to begin with. If one truly and honestly said, "I'm going to judge each member's contributions based solely on their professional work", then it would be impossible to belittle Steve Perry as merely a singer. It would be impossible to not recognize that Jonathan Cain has been the heart and soul of much of the music writing. It would be impossible to not recognize what great musicianship Neal Schon has brought to the band. My point is, it would be impossible and maybe even dishonest to not recognize all the importance that Cain, Schon, and Perry brought to this band singularly and as a music writing trio. Those three guys are magic in the studio together, and without one of those guys, it just doesn't add up. <- That's my opinion right there, but I'm sure there are quite a few other Journey fans who would agree with me, even though, like me, still have enjoyed this band post Steve Perry. But, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with recognizing the fact that when you experience only their music from the beginning - no prior knowledge about those individuals - it's a completely different experience. While I'm guilty of falling for that garbage information as well from time to time, I at least try to form my opinions on what the band does, professionally, based on other professional aspects, and not from a personal aspect.

I just don't get the attitudes, the "snippy" comments, and all that garbage. If one is looking to be offended or looking for a fight, they're going to find it some way some how, and apparently you, Gideon, were looking for a fight with me and found something with my comments and decided to jump on it. If you found the 30 year old comment offensive, you should have just said, "Hey, I'm a bit offended by your 30 year old comment, and the reason is X, Y, Z." I'm a reasonable guy, and clearly capable of saying, "I apologize, let me clarify what I mean so that it doesn't sound like I'm trying to come off condescending" (which was not my intentions.) Unfortunately, you took the low road and attacked me, because you thought I was attacking you.

[Gideon]

That was eloquent, but I reject the argument.

30 is an awkward place to set the bar; how would someone born in 1982, for example, have properly experienced Journey or grasped the intricacies of its creative & political environment? That person would have been a year old for Frontiers, 6 for Raised on Radio, and 14 for Trial By Fire. Unless that person was an especially well-connected or gifted toddler, I don't buy it.

Simply being alive during the Perry years (which is your qualification) does not bequeath special knowledge or a proper understanding of the band itself. I was 5 when TBF was released, do I qualify?

I just don't get the attitudes, the "snippy" comments, and all that garbage. If one is looking to be offended or looking for a fight, they're going to find it some way some how, and apparently you, Gideon, were looking for a fight with me and found something with my comments and decided to jump on it. If you found the 30 year old comment offensive, you should have just said, "Hey, I'm a bit offended by your 30 year old comment, and the reason is X, Y, Z." I'm a reasonable guy, and clearly capable of saying, "I apologize, let me clarify what I mean so that it doesn't sound like I'm trying to come off condescending" (which was not my intentions.) Unfortunately, you took the low road and attacked me, because you thought I was attacking you.

It was a jab. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't attack your intelligence, didn't wish illness on you, didn't express any personal vendetta against you, I simply took your remark about the benefits of greater age and flipped it. Your comment didn't offend me so much as it was directed at people like me (i.e. less than 30). I've already demonstrated that 30 is a poor benchmark for what you were trying to communicate, anyway. Melodic Rock is proof enough: we've seen as many people who lived during the Perry heyday demonstrate an appalling lack of perspective as those who don't.

[portland]

That was eloquent, but I reject the argument.

30 is an awkward place to set the bar; how would someone born in 1982, for example, have properly experienced Journey or grasped the intricacies of its creative & political environment? That person would have been a year old for Frontiers, 6 for Raised on Radio, and 14 for Trial By Fire. Unless that person was an especially well-connected or gifted toddler, I don't buy it.

Simply being alive during the Perry years (which is your qualification) does not bequeath special knowledge or a proper understanding of the band itself. I was 5 when TBF was released, do I qualify?

I just don't get the attitudes, the "snippy" comments, and all that garbage. If one is looking to be offended or looking for a fight, they're going to find it some way some how, and apparently you, Gideon, were looking for a fight with me and found something with my comments and decided to jump on it. If you found the 30 year old comment offensive, you should have just said, "Hey, I'm a bit offended by your 30 year old comment, and the reason is X, Y, Z." I'm a reasonable guy, and clearly capable of saying, "I apologize, let me clarify what I mean so that it doesn't sound like I'm trying to come off condescending" (which was not my intentions.) Unfortunately, you took the low road and attacked me, because you thought I was attacking you.

It was a jab. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't attack your intelligence, didn't wish illness on you, didn't express any personal vendetta against you, I simply took your remark about the benefits of greater age and flipped it. Your comment didn't offend me so much as it was directed at people like me (i.e. less than 30). I've already demonstrated that 30 is a poor benchmark for what you were trying to communicate, anyway. Melodic Rock is proof enough: we've seen as many people who lived during the Perry heyday demonstrate an appalling lack of perspective as those who don't.

I remember when I would actually partake in the loonacy that is Giddy......

[Gideon]

And I'm pleased to see you mastered this crush you have on me.

[Archetype]

I love it when people get indignant over internet comments.

[portland]

And I'm pleased to see you mastered this crush you have on me.

Yes the one I have in YOUR mind