Great Jonathan Cain interview

[Don]

Puts a different spin on a few things like Ross and ROR. Also a different take from Herbie on the Bill Graham story. One thing that really comes across from Jon in this interview is the GREAT chemistry those guys had at one point. Not just any third writer can really bring that back now days.

http://bammagazine.com/index.php/the-news/117

Journey’s keyboardist, Jonathan Cain sat down this week for a candid interview with BamMagazine.com’s Kenny Wardell. Having just finished a 91 date tour with the band, Jonathan reflected on the three decades he has been associated with Journey, one of the Bay Area’s top selling bands from his new home outside of Nashville, Tennessee. Jonathan co-wrote Don’t Stop Believin’ the most downloaded song in iTunes history. On November 1, Journey released their second greatest hits CD, Journey’s Greatest Hits 2 compiled by former lead singer Steve Perry and the band will complete their American Tour, with current lead singer Arnel Pineda starting next March and running through the Summer.

BAM: How does it feel to have co-written "Don't Stop Believin'," the most downloaded song, the top-selling catalog track in iTunes history?

JC: The whole process of writing that song was such a group effort but also – a bonding of new musical relationships. Before Journey, the the late 70’s I was in Los Angeles in The Babys, a band that was popular – but struggling financially. After a phone call in the summer of 1980 I had been drafted into a band that had done everything right. It was like someone had switched the light on and said, "All right, this is your time to shine. What have you got?" You wait all you life to do something that matters – when somebody notices that what you are doing is pretty great.

The whole feel of 1981 for me – when I wrote that song with Steve [Perry] and Neal [Schon] was based on a sort of swagger that they had – that I admired. I wanted the assuredness that they had. I was surprised when I arrived – in the absolute belief and trust they had in me. [manager] Herbie [Herbert] and the Nightmare organization made me feel so content. It was almost like the movie Amadeus, when he looks at his dad, and he says, "I can finally create and I don’t have to worry about anything – I have my life." Those guys made it possible for me to relax, after nearly starving and barely being able to pay my rent – living from month to month down there in LA.. Moving to the Bay Area with Journey, they were saying, "We have this creative effort here, and you are part of it. How could I not have been inspired?

My father had told me all along, when times got tough – and they got really bad when I was living in L.A. I had lost my record deal at Warner Bros. and hit the streets looking for work. I didn’t want to go back to clubs and play top forty. It got to the point that I actually quit the business and walked away from it. I had to re-boot. I had a "windy city breakdown," the very title of the album I had finished – in L.A. – the wheels came off, and I found myself selling stereos at Cal Stereo.

My father had said to me on the phone, ‘We have had a vision here, don’t lose sight of it. You need to take a step back, and something good is going to happen. Don’t stop believin.’" He was always telling me that. So, I wrote it down. At the end of Escape, we were looking for another song, and I found in my spiral notebook the idea "Don’t stop believin’- hold on to that feelin’." I said to myself, "Yeah, that’s Journey." So, I went over to my Wurlitzer piano in this little apartment on Divisadero they had rented for me and I pounded out the chorus and brought it in to the band. That’s kinda’ how it began.

It wasn’t until Steve and I pinned the lyric on it that we knew what we had. Steve was really keen on going with me and shaping the cinematic idea of two kids trying to leave somewhere for somewhere better. I was really digging that "Jack & Diane" song.. I said, "Let’s make it a spin off of the ‘Jack and Diane’ song. Let’s say, ‘They are on a midnight train going anywhere.’" Steve let his imagination run, and we saw this movie together. It’s really a song that gives permission to dream.

The other part of it that is really profound for me now is that I got to see the band perform every night – - before I was in it. I found myself strangely attracted to watching them play those arenas. I couldn’t figure out what the attraction was – I wouldn’t go back with the rest of the guys [in The Babys], I’d somehow stick around after our set and watch the Journey set – trying to see what they were going to change next. and, how their fans were going to react. I watched their set morph and change into more of a rock show. It eventually became the Captured album.I also noticed their fans adored these guys. There was this mass appeal.

So when I came to the [Journey] camp, I was like, "You know what you guys are missing? I watched you every night for four months. We need to write songs to them – songs about their lives.

I’m a big Springsteen fan. I love John Prine. I love Bob Dylan. I love the street poetry that Springsteen and Bernie Taupin put into the rock & roll lyric. I was a fan of all those wonderful images that those guys brought to rok. I wanted to bring that to Journey, and I saw the possibility of adding and complementing what they already had. I was watching every night, thinking, "I could add this," or "I could say that." So when I finally got a chance to sit in and write with them, they could have said, "Take your ideas and shove them. We’re doing our thing." But they wanted to change. They listened – and allowed me to help mold a new sound for the band.

Steve Perry seemed to love the way I played the piano, and singing to my feel. Having his confidence was like living in Utopia, coming from where I came from—where guitars seem to dictate. When I arrived to create in the Journey camp, there was this sort of wonder and synergy that all of us would create – - they’d still tease – “Jon has another idea. Here it comes.' Somehow. they never threw me under the bus. My ideas were heard. I listened and related to Neal and Steve and soon realized I was this glue that help synergize Journey at that time.

Wrapped up in this whirlwind of new creative energy. "Don’t Stop Believin’" always reminds me of just how magical that time was in my life. We had all discovered a brand new, unique brand of musical conversation with each other. Recording at Fantasy in Berkeley. [Recording engineer] Roy Segal. Meeting the Forty-Niners. "Don’t Stop Believin’" reminds me of my absolute joy in finding these guys and being allowed to make music with them.

BAM: Randy Jackson, the American Idol judge, was a member of Journey for a while. Can you talk about Randy and tell us what part he played in the band’s history?

JC: Randy was sort of a studio rat at Fantasy [Recording Studios] in Berkeley, and he had that little band Taxi. He was always doing records and demos and producing R&B acts. He worked with Tony Toni Tone and a few other Bay Area R&B acts. So, Journey would do some kind of R&B track, and Ross [Vallory] would be playing, and Steve was trying to show him what he wants, and it wasn’t making Steve happy, so he goes and grabs Randy. The first time Randy really played with us was on "After The Fall" on The Frontiers album, which was in ’83. Randy played bass on that song and it felt really good, it was really strong. Ross was cool about it, and when he played it live, he’d try and channel Randy. I guess Steve remembered that when some of Ross' personal issues came down and he was kind of out of commission. And so Raised on Radio came along, and we sort of went into this different direction, which was definitely a more soulful, pop kind of album. It wasn’t like the rock & roll we’d done in the past. And, like I said, Ross was going through some personal issues, so with Steve Perry ending up producing – he had just come off his solo album – and he was excited to try his hand at producing Journey with Jim Gaines at The Plant [Record Plant Recording Studio in Sausalito]. We went in and tried to cut tracks with Ross and [drummer] Steve Smith, and they were really critical of what was happening there, and there was a lot of tension. So Steve [Perry], being in control, just said, "We’re going to get Randy and [drummer] Larrie Londin, and we’re going to finish this thing." They ended up finishing the album in like four days. They just blazed through it effortlessly. I remember sitting there at The Plant just going, "This feels really good," and thinking maybe they were right about this stuff. It was the kind of music we were doing, "I’ll Be Alright Without You" and music that was a homage to the soul music Steve and I grew up listening to. When we went out on tour that year, ’86 or I think it was ’87, there was a drummer that went out on the road with us. Steve Smith didn’t want to come back, he was still angry with us and Ross was in rehab somewhere. So, Randy came over to Oakland where we rehearsed, and we had to get a drummer. After 40 drummers auditioning, the only guy that sounded like Journey was my friend Mike Baird. Mike ended up going on the road with us and Randy Jackson for the Raised on Radio tour, and we ended up doing 40 shows together, ending up in Anchorage, Alaska, of all places. That was the last time Randy toured with us.

BAM: Tell us about the book you are writing, called Don’t Stop Believin'. What are you doing with that?

JC: It’s a coming-of-age memoir that is kind of evolving. It’s kind of like my life story. I grew up in Chicago, in this little Italian neighborhood, and played the accordion. It’s the story of how I got to Journey. There was this really terrible school fire from back in 1958 that’s a big part of the book. How I left the neighborhood. And it’s about having a vision, and getting back up after you’ve been knocked down. All the trials and tribulations that I went through. My brother was a big part of it. He stayed with me, saw me through the tough times. Signing my first contract in Nashville in 1969. Playing with the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section, and how that changed my life. And then The Babys came. My memory is pretty good with all this stuff. I remember a lot! So here I am, back in Nashville, come full circle, building a studio, getting ready to launch my own production company here. I’m going to be a house of possibilities. I’m going to be that nurturing guy, I’m going to be the one that says, "Come to my room, and let’s see what we can do." I want to give back to the business that has given me so much. It’s the only thing I know how to do.

BAM: When do you think your book is going to come out?

JC: Next year some time. I’ve done the outline, and I’ve written about a hundred pages so far. I’m writing about the late '60s now, and will move through the '70s and my time in L.A. I have this amazing story with Wolfman Jack and his company. All the great things that I was privy to. The Midnight Special days where my brother and I would go every Tuesday night to watch Burt Sugarman tape Midnight Special. We saw everyone from T-Rex to Billy Joel perform live. If that doesn’t change your world, I don’t know what. I don’t think success would have come to me hadn’t I gone through all that I did.

BAM: Recently it was announced that Journey will release a new greatest hits compilation, called Journey’s Greatest Hits 2, which will feature songs picked by former front man Steve Perry. How did that come about?

JC: Steve helped us produce our Greatest Hits DVD. He is an archivist, and he’s really good at it. He reached out to us with a list of songs for the project, and said, "What do you think?" We are all thrilled and impressed with his commitment to keeping our legacy going. It is something that he really enjoys doing, and I can only say "thank you." We all appreciate his efforts and his input and everything he has done on behalf of the band. When we did The Oprah Show with Arnel [Pineda], Steve sent a telegram congratulating us on the success we’ve had since Arnel joined the band. So, even though I don’t get to speak to Steve – I haven’t spoken to him since Journey’s induction into the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 2004 – we just appreciate his efforts. A job well done. A lot of the songs on that album are being played live today by the band, so they stood the test of time and are crowd favorites.

BAM: Let’s talk about vocalist Arnel Pineda now, and what he has done, and how he has fit in. Tell us about Arnel. JC: Arnel is a soulful human being. He is passionate about his work in Journey and carrying on the legacy. He takes full accountability for what he does every night. He is a great humanitarian. He comes from a really tough childhood. He lost his mom when he was 12. Ended up almost on the streets of Manila. The man has done it. He makes our camp a better place with his grace. He has seen the darkest hours, and he lived through it. So, when you see it for yourself...and we’ve watched him grow. I knew it was going to be a two-worlds-collide kind of thing. He comes from the Philippines, with barely anything, into one of the iconic rock bands today. There was certainly a growing period for him. It wasn’t easy for him. When he came to Sausalito to sing that album, he had a lot of questions and soul-searching he had to do. I’m proud to say I’m his friend, and his friendship is really special to me. I told him one time, "Nobody goes through this without making some mistakes." Me and him. He has been a terrific brother, and the sound that comes out of that kid, he just brings it every night.

BAM: Has Neal Schon's love life had any effect on Journey or your fan base?

JC: No—. We all try to keep our private stuff separate from the band. It was a matter of timing—Neal and Micheala reunited--while we were on tour –the press took advantage --while her husband spread a rumor to the FBI that was untrue.
Neal and Micheala have been romantically involved since 1998. They have always stayed in touch over the years–so when she left her husband and showed up in Nashville --it was no surprise. They are in love and we are happy for both of them.
BAM: Let’s talk about your personal life a little bit. You have moved back to Nashville, and you published a heartwarming post about the Bay Area and your move to Tennessee on your website.

JC: I lived in the Bay Area for 30 years, and it seemed like it was long enough. I had some unbelievable times there, but with my kids being a certain age, it was time to go somewhere else. Change is good, and my kids have really flourished here. I don’t miss the traffic, but I have fond memories about our time in the Bay Area. I miss the Bammies and all that brotherhood stuff we used to have there. I still have all my Bammies in my trophy case here.

BAM: Tell us about your kids and their musical aspirations. We could put a killer band together with the kids of Bay Area musicians. There’s Miles Schon (Neal), Ry Kihn (Greg), Lara Johnston (Tommy), and Madison Cain (Jonathan), for starters.

JC: Maddy’s been really focusing and centering in on country music and continuing with her song-writing here. She has made a lot of great friends and has been playing at all the hip places in town. She has a band and a manager, and a couple of labels are very, very interested in her. She has quite a bunch of songs now. I feel that she is just on the edge of a great career, and it’s just about ready to happen for her. She doesn’t sound like anybody. She is a terrific singer. She’s 18 now, and she has her own website- www.madisoncain.com – and you can hear some of her songs there. She has a cool little Vegas show coming up for the National Rodeo in December at the Hilton. She’ll be performing in the Elvis Room there. We’re looking forward to that, for sure. She is the apple of my eye. My other two kids, the twins – Weston and Liza are just as amazing. Liza is studying the piano, guitar and singing with Amber Morris and Weston has been playing drums and guitar for years. My wife, Liz has been a fabulous mother and homemaker and has created a unique jewelry company called Gypsy Princess. I have really been blessed with an awesome family that has been behind me all along.

BAM: Just a couple of curiosity questions: what was the first single and the first album you ever bought?

JC: The Beach Boys' "I Get Around" was the first single, and it would probably have to be The Zombies for first album. Or maybe it was The Ventures. Yeah, The Ventures with "Walk Don’t Run" on it. I had a band back then, and we were trying to be The Ventures. They were the band we wanted to be. There was this old record shop where we used to go and order singles. When I put my band together in eighth grade, we were The Futuras. We got a hold of the song "Gloria" by Them with Van Morrison, and when we played it at dances at school as freshmen, everybody thought we had written that song.

BAM: Do you recall any Bammie memories?

JC: At The Warfield, I had to go to the bathroom, and the band had already gone on stage. I went to get on stage, up the stairway, and the security guard stopped me and asked me to see my pass. I said, "I’m with the band." And he said, "No, you’re not!" So I had to go backstage and get someone to get me a pass and slap it on my shirt. I have a picture of me playing keyboards, my first picture as a member of Journey at my first Bammies, and it has the damn pass on my chest. It looks horrible. The other great memory I have was this guy Bobby Slayton, is that his name? He was the MC or something, and he kept ripping into Journey because we were nominated for all the awards that year. He did this big backhanded comic routine about Journey, and unfortunately, we were attending that night. We listened to him completely swarm us up, and it was so completely nauseating to us. I remember Starship getting up there and doing a couple of songs, and at the end of it, Grace and Paul all bowed and they said, ‘If we were Journey, we’d say 'fuck you!'" And then they walked off stage. The entire crowd stood up for a standing ovation. The Starship were so cool to do that. I’ll never forget it. That’s the kind of camaraderie we used to have, the brotherhood. I used to brag about it. People would ask me, "Why do you want to live in the Bay Area so much?" I said, “It’s because we have a musical brotherhood." We have that here in Nashville. There is this cool sense of brotherhood amongst the musicians here that we’re one of the "cats." I dig it.

BAM: One last question. Is there one career highlight that sticks out from all your other memories?

JC: It would have to be the Bill Graham one. Bill needed a show one summer, and at the time we were working on the Frontier album over in Oakland. He comes over to our warehouse unannounced and says to us, "I need you to do a show for me." We tell him, "But Bill, we’re working on a new album, and we’re not touring right now." Not taking "no" for an answer, he persists. "I need you to do a show for me in Anaheim." I had just seen a show in Anaheim, and I told Bill how I had been treated like cattle. The place was a dirty, disgusting baseball park. He says, "Where do you want to play, then?" So I go, "The Rose Bowl." Raising his voice, Bill says, "Nobody plays the Rose Bowl," and he kind of stammers away, and we don’t see him for about a week or two. And then he comes back to our rehearsal space and he tells us, "Okay, I got you the Rose Bowl. And we’re going to have fireworks, it’s going to be great." Bill Graham presented Journey at the Rose Bowl, and some 90,000 people showed up. I just remember thinking, "This guy is aces in my book. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat." So truly, that was a highlight for me.

[Don]

This interview was given four months after the release of Eclipse. I didn't even notice that at first. Jon seemed to really be in a nostalgic mood the whole interview.

[jrny84]

Wow, really cool interview. Just goes to show you how unique that bond of Perry, Schon, and Cain really were. When those three got together they balanced eachother out and really created something that was lighting in a bottle. Pretty cool too that Grace Slick and Paul Katner stood up for Journey on stage, especially Grace, she doesnt put up with any crap. Sounds like those bay area bands really looked out for eachother back then.

[Eric]

Perry sending a telegram is really awesome . I didn't realize telegram's still existed, but its awesome .

[JohnH]

Well one thing about memories I saw on 60 minutes is that they get dirtied up and arent always accurate. There's no way in hell Jack and Diane was an influence on DSB as it wasn't finished or even recorded until 1982. American Fool came out in July 1982. There wasn't some pre release version that came out a year early either. ????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_%26_Diane

[tater1977]

Perry sending a telegram is really awesome . I didn't realize telegram's still existed, but its awesome .

MESSAGE TO JOURNEY FROM STEVE PERRY AT OPRAH SHOW - "I WILL BE FOREVER GRATEFUL...."


http://youtu.be/oB_doMqebgs

[Don]

As is said in another thread, these guys are old already. Some people are better at remembering things than others. It does sound like Jon is totally over the whole Steve Perry drama.
Bringing up the thing about coming from a guitar driven band and being able to write what he wanted to with Journey: it does make me think that even with Eclipse just being released before this interview, Cain, in his heart of hearts still wasn't on board with it at all.

I also got the feeling that he doesn't necessarily want to write songs for his daughter, at least not initially. Maybe he (and she) really want to see if they can take that first step by themselves.

[tater1977]

BAM: Randy Jackson, the American Idol judge, was a member of Journey for a while. Can you talk about Randy and tell us what part he played in the band’s history?

JC: "Randy was sort of a studio rat at Fantasy [Recording Studios] in Berkeley, and he had that little band Taxi. He was always doing records and demos and producing R&B acts. He worked with Tony Toni Tone and a few other Bay Area R&B acts. So, Journey would do some kind of R&B track, and Ross [Vallory] would be playing, and Steve was trying to show him what he wants, and it wasn’t making Steve happy, so he goes and grabs Randy. The first time Randy really played with us was on "After The Fall" on The Frontiers album, which was in ’83. Randy played bass on that song and it felt really good, it was really strong. Ross was cool about it, and when he played it live, he’d try and channel Randy. I guess Steve remembered that when some of Ross' personal issues came down and he was kind of out of commission. And so Raised on Radio came along, and we sort of went into this different direction, which was definitely a more soulful, pop kind of album. It wasn’t like the rock & roll we’d done in the past. And, like I said, Ross was going through some personal issues, so with Steve Perry ending up producing – he had just come off his solo album – and he was excited to try his hand at producing Journey with Jim Gaines at The Plant [Record Plant Recording Studio in Sausalito]. We went in and tried to cut tracks with Ross and [drummer] Steve Smith, and they were really critical of what was happening there, and there was a lot of tension. So Steve [Perry], being in control, just said, "We’re going to get Randy and [drummer] Larrie Londin, and we’re going to finish this thing." They ended up finishing the album in like four days. They just blazed through it effortlessly. I remember sitting there at The Plant just going, "This feels really good," and thinking maybe they were right about this stuff. It was the kind of music we were doing, "I’ll Be Alright Without You" and music that was a homage to the soul music Steve and I grew up listening to. When we went out on tour that year, ’86 or I think it was ’87, there was a drummer that went out on the road with us. Steve Smith didn’t want to come back, he was still angry with us and Ross was in rehab somewhere. So, Randy came over to Oakland where we rehearsed, and we had to get a drummer. After 40 drummers auditioning, the only guy that sounded like Journey was my friend Mike Baird. Mike ended up going on the road with us and Randy Jackson for the Raised on Radio tour, and we ended up doing 40 shows together, ending up in Anchorage, Alaska, of all places. That was the last time Randy toured with us. "



Kind of puts a new spin on the ROR era...maybe it wasn't all SPs fault..
Seems like everyone was going in different directions with everyone having their
own problems..
Thanks for posting this Dan...

[jrny84]

Perry sending a telegram is really awesome . I didn't realize telegram's still existed, but its awesome .

MESSAGE TO JOURNEY FROM STEVE PERRY AT OPRAH SHOW - "I WILL BE FOREVER GRATEFUL...."


http://youtu.be/oB_doMqebgs

Thats a class act and really humble guy for all the success.

[Don]

Steve Smith didn’t want to come back, he was still angry with us and Ross was in rehab somewhere.

This made me snigger.

[tater1977]

Steve Smith didn’t want to come back, he was still angry with us and Ross was in rehab somewhere.

This made me snigger.

Honestly I chuckled...but glad he got the help he needed too tho..
As for Steve grabbing Randy & Jon grabbing Larry...good call to be
able to finish up the album in 4 days..

Now as to why this never was made public before..instead of blaming
it all on one guy...who knows..
Guess they were mad or didn't want to air their dirty laundry..

[Don]

They've talked about DSB so much the last five years, to bring up a Jack and Diane angle was pretty strange. That's usually when he talks about about Gladys Knight. The John Cougar mention threw me for a loop.
Maybe a bit of senility creeping in? Or he just plain mixed it up with another memory.

Still, a very generous offering of thanks to Neal and Steve that I don't ever recall hearing from him before. Maybe the guy really is ready to shift down a gear at this point in his career.

[Gideon]

Great interview. Perry and Schon should be forever grateful to the musicianship and songwriting sensibility Cain brought to Journey, making them millionaires.

[cudaclan]

"Time wounds all heels."

Groucho Marx/John Lennon

[Don]

Great interview. Perry and Schon should be forever grateful to the musicianship and songwriting sensibility Cain brought to Journey, making them millionaires.

Sounds like Jon is thanking them for making him a millionaire. A good songwriter but without the right wheels, he was a car on cinder blocks. Journey had three consecutive platinum albums up to Escape. Not world beaters but they weren't exactly no-names either. The only thing I knew about Cain pre-Journey was that he wrote the Heart song Allies.

The last few interviews from him, he really does sound soured on Neal dragging him back to the style he was happy to step away from when he joined the band. Dude is set for life, he doesn't have to listen to Neal or anyone anymore, I can see him giving Schon an ultimatum; either back to the legacy sound next time or he's done.

Surprised about the whole thing with ROR. I was always of the impression that he and Neal hated it but from these comments, sounds like the R&B leanings were right up his alley.

[STORY_TELLER]

Great interview. Perry and Schon should be forever grateful to the musicianship and songwriting sensibility Cain brought to Journey, making them millionaires.

Sounds like Jon is thanking them for making him a millionaire. A good songwriter but without the right wheels, he was a car on cinder blocks.

+1

From Jon's own mouth, he saw himself stepping into an already very successful band. Having said that, he was a tremendous addition and the three of them had great chemistry.

Surprised about the whole thing with ROR. I was always of the impression that he and Neal hated it but from these comments, sounds like the R&B leanings were right up his alley.

Cain stated in previous interviews how he and Perry bonded over their common R&B influences. Neal is the one who hates ROR. He took a huge back seat on that album. Great tunes on that album, and I love it, but I don't see how having Neal take a back seat or going with a different drummer serviced the songs per se. I always wondered what those same songs would sound like with Neal and Smitty doing their thing.

[Gideon]

Sounds like Jon is thanking them for making him a millionaire. A good songwriter but without the right wheels, he was a car on cinder blocks. Journey had three consecutive platinum albums up to Escape. Not world beaters but they weren't exactly no-names either. The only thing I knew about Cain pre-Journey was that he wrote the Heart song Allies.

The last few interviews from him, he really does sound soured on Neal dragging him back to the style he was happy to step away from when he joined the band. Dude is set for life, he doesn't have to listen to Neal or anyone anymore, I can see him giving Schon an ultimatum; either back to the legacy sound next time or he's done.

Surprised about the whole thing with ROR. I was always of the impression that he and Neal hated it but from these comments, sounds like the R&B leanings were right up his alley.

Perry and Schon are frequently given the lion's share of credit and acclaim, but I'm simply basing my assessment off what we know (Jon bringing in DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) and what we're told (I refer you to my signature). Journey had success prior to Cain, but he launched them into the stratosphere of commercial success, no question about it.

Really, they all owe Herbie everything.

[slucero]

Sounds like Jon is thanking them for making him a millionaire. A good songwriter but without the right wheels, he was a car on cinder blocks. Journey had three consecutive platinum albums up to Escape. Not world beaters but they weren't exactly no-names either. The only thing I knew about Cain pre-Journey was that he wrote the Heart song Allies.

The last few interviews from him, he really does sound soured on Neal dragging him back to the style he was happy to step away from when he joined the band. Dude is set for life, he doesn't have to listen to Neal or anyone anymore, I can see him giving Schon an ultimatum; either back to the legacy sound next time or he's done.

Surprised about the whole thing with ROR. I was always of the impression that he and Neal hated it but from these comments, sounds like the R&B leanings were right up his alley.

Really, they all owe Herbie everything.

I knew you'd come around eventually Gid....

[STORY_TELLER]

Perry and Schon are frequently given the lion's share of credit and acclaim, but I'm simply basing my assessment off what we know (Jon bringing in DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) and what we're told (I refer you to my signature). Journey had success prior to Cain, but he launched them into the stratosphere of commercial success, no question about it.

I almost responded to this, but then I thought, why bother?

[jrnyman28]

he doesn't have to listen to Neal or anyone anymore, I can see him giving Schon an ultimatum; either back to the legacy sound next time or he's done.

I always felt that was how JSS' dismissal came about. It was such a sudden change of plan. But I also thought it may have been compromise for Eclipse, too.

Surprised about the whole thing with ROR. I was always of the impression that he and Neal hated it but from these comments, sounds like the R&B leanings were right up his alley.

Nah. ROR was always Steve AND Jon's baby. But Perry took the lead so he took the blame.[/list]

[Gideon]

Perry and Schon are frequently given the lion's share of credit and acclaim, but I'm simply basing my assessment off what we know (Jon bringing in DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) and what we're told (I refer you to my signature). Journey had success prior to Cain, but he launched them into the stratosphere of commercial success, no question about it.

I almost responded to this, but then I thought, why bother?

Technically, you did respond anyway.
But I'm glad you have enough self-awareness to recognize that you're well outta your league here. Jon's tremendous impact on Journey's success is simply irrefutable.

[Eric]

You can like ROR (I personally don't) but it was less Journey than maybe any album they've done. Pre, during or Post Perry.

[musicfan17]

Comparatively speaking...I like all Journey albums.

ROR....IMO was Steve Perry's second solo album and the most watered down Journey album ever. My least favorite album to that point by the band and the tour kinda sucked as well. There are definitely some good tunes on it, but the album as a whole, as a Journey album kinda blows.

With that said, a mediocre Journey album is still a whole lot better than many albums from other bands of that era. Food for thought... if that album (ROR) had come out today from Journey, how would we view it? I say this because going limp like they did on ROR, is the same as rocking out more like they did on Eclipse (which I think is a very good album, albeit not their legacy sound). They changed directions and ROR was Perry's album moreso than anyone else. Just like Eclipse was Neal's album.

I'm hoping for one more legacy sounding album from Journey before they hang it up, but who knows if we'll get that.

[STORY_TELLER]

Perry and Schon are frequently given the lion's share of credit and acclaim, but I'm simply basing my assessment off what we know (Jon bringing in DSB, Open Arms, Faithfully) and what we're told (I refer you to my signature). Journey had success prior to Cain, but he launched them into the stratosphere of commercial success, no question about it.

I almost responded to this, but then I thought, why bother?

Technically, you did respond anyway.
But I'm glad you have enough self-awareness to recognize that you're well outta your league here. Jon's tremendous impact on Journey's success is simply irrefutable.

No, I just know *you* Giddy.

[STORY_TELLER]

Comparatively speaking...I like all Journey albums.

ROR....IMO was Steve Perry's second solo album and the most watered down Journey album ever. My least favorite album to that point by the band and the tour kinda sucked as well. There are definitely some good tunes on it, but the album as a whole, as a Journey album kinda blows.

With that said, a mediocre Journey album is still a whole lot better than many albums from other bands of that era. Food for thought... if that album (ROR) had come out today from Journey, how would we view it? I say this because going limp like they did on ROR, is the same as rocking out more like they did on Eclipse (which I think is a very good album, albeit not their legacy sound). They changed directions and ROR was Perry's album moreso than anyone else. Just like Eclipse was Neal's album.

I'm hoping for one more legacy sounding album from Journey before they hang it up, but who knows if we'll get that.

I like a great deal of that album, and I love certain songs. Perry really stretched out vocally here in ways he hadn't before. I think the songs would be over the top stellar if Smitty was involved and Neal played a much bigger part.

Case in point: They used Happy to Give in a cheesy surfing movie called North Shore in very interesting ways. The keyboard riff was used as a scoring theme for the developing love scenes, but the filmmakers also brought in studio musicians to add guitar and it sounded really, really cool. For years I wondered if there was an alternate version of the song somewhere, but it turned out to be the filmmakers who did it, not Journey. As much as I like that song, I thought it was bigger and more epic with the guitar.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Lots of the band's finest work on ROR (GCHI, IBAWY, Suzanne, BGTY, WCTNGOF). Even the sax-infused "Positive Touch" manages to rock in its own unique Genesis-wannabe sorta way. Then there is all the other stuff. "Eyes of a Woman", "Once You Love Somebody" "Happy to Give" - I don't even know what genre it is. It's just dreary, synth-heavy ethereal stuff. Kinda mopey too, like FTLOSM. Sometimes I wonder if Neal was in rehab during the making of the album along with Ross.

[Gideon]

Gotta echo STORY TELLER and TNC here. ROR was a good album that could have been much better had the Big 3 maintained their equilibrium. When one of the guys has too much control, the material tends to suffer.

[daytrpr]

ROR....IMO was Steve Perry's second solo album and the most watered down Journey album ever. My least favorite album to that point by the band and the tour kinda sucked as well. There are definitely some good tunes on it, but the album as a whole, as a Journey album kinda blows.

Depends on where/when you saw them. The first show at Mountain Aire was legendary. 4 months later in SF...blah.

[jrny84]

ROR....IMO was Steve Perry's second solo album and the most watered down Journey album ever. My least favorite album to that point by the band and the tour kinda sucked as well. There are definitely some good tunes on it, but the album as a whole, as a Journey album kinda blows.

Depends on where/when you saw them. The first show at Mountain Aire was legendary. 4 months later in SF...blah.

I agree, the Mountain Aire Festival had everything going right for that show...Perry was spot on in his vocals, the band looked like they were energized, people were really into it, and there was a great anticipation and excitement. Hands down Perry's vocals on "Girl Cant Help It" (especially the chorus) are down right awesome and the strongest I have heard them in that ROR time period. Perry's vocals seem to be raspier and a bit tired on the Atlanta Omni Arena footage of "Ill Be Alright", still a good vocal though by anyone else's standards.

[annie89509]

Great interview. Perry and Schon should be forever grateful to the musicianship and songwriting sensibility Cain brought to Journey, making them millionaires.

Sounds like Jon is thanking them for making him a millionaire. A good songwriter but without the right wheels, he was a car on cinder blocks. Journey had three consecutive platinum albums up to Escape. Not world beaters but they weren't exactly no-names either. The only thing I knew about Cain pre-Journey was that he wrote the Heart song Allies.

The last few interviews from him, he really does sound soured on Neal dragging him back to the style he was happy to step away from when he joined the band. Dude is set for life, he doesn't have to listen to Neal or anyone anymore, I can see him giving Schon an ultimatum; either back to the legacy sound next time or he's done.

Surprised about the whole thing with ROR. I was always of the impression that he and Neal hated it but from these comments, sounds like the R&B leanings were right up his alley.

4 counting Captured.

The whole interview made me snigger. Funny how revisionist history keeps coming back to contradict what we have all heard before. Another eye-opener relevation, besides the Ross/Smitty issues, was Mike Baird being a friend brought in by Jon. I keep remembering (per Herbie) that MB was this no-talent drummer pushed onto the band by domineering SP.

I don't think these guys realize what they have said in the past are all still available (archived for posterity on various fan sites). As someone posted, these guys are all getting old... memories (maybe feelings, too) fade. The not-so-kind things that maybe they had for a certain person is no longer there.

Does anyone else sense Jon's journey with this band may be coming to a close?