Gideon wrote:I love reading the verbal carnage that ensues when you two slug it out; don't ever change.
For my take, slucero, much of the quality that you and ST ascribe to Perry is entirely subjective. You two cite the LTS ad lib as proof of this, but TNC finds it to be total garbage and I share that sentiment. You've mentioned before how Schon can shred in excess to the detriment of the song; how it comes off sloppy and incoherent? I agree, but I don't think it's just a fretwork phenomenon: Perry is guilty of it, too; of going on and on and on with ridiculous alterations to the song for the sake of "artistry." What you two find soulful and masterful, others might find soulless and mediocre.
The LTS was ST's citation.. and the
singing portion of the intro to LTS in that video was what I believe he was pointing to... not the ad libbing that was pointed out.. I assume you are referring to he singing portion regarding y our subjective comment.. correct?
I do get that it is subjective.. and to be clear I'm talking about the singing portion again.. not the ad-libbing stuff..
And you are correct.. excess that does not serve the song in musicianship (vocal or instrument) is just that.. excessive .. and obvious.(it doesn't mean it is unnecessary though) And there's an obvious difference in context also.. (Van Halen doing it in VH songs vs. Schon in Journey tunes). It just depends on what the particular context is.. and if it is acceptable.
But I'm not talking about excess.. nor is it artistry.. from the singing perspective, its the ability to sing in those differing styles naturally.. as opposed to sounding like a "rock singer in a soul band", or the opposite. One only need look at whether any of those "other" singers have ever sang outside of their genre, which is rock, or if they have incorporated that styling into the genre they exist in, without it sounding forced or unnatural. For the most part it's pretty obvious they have done neither.
I hear Perry doing this in a very natural way.
Gideon wrote:As far as your alleged Loon status is concerned, I'm inclined to reject the idea that you are a Loon by virtue of the fact that you are clearly very intelligent, well informed, and can construct reasonable arguments, things that all Loons lack by definition. But I don't think there's any doubt which "camp" (Perry or Schon/Cain) holds your ultimate allegiance and which camp you're more likely to praise versus criticize (based on the nature of your posts, anyway). You're in Don's group of posters as far as I'm concerned, which is good company to keep, but you're certainly not even-handed.
IMHO it's more about understanding the triumvirate that was Cain/Perry/Schon
I totally admire Cain and Schon... actually more Cain than Schon, because Cain is a writer.. the thinking mans musician. Trained in composition. He knows the language of music and in Journey was the also the interpreter and go-between (between Perry and Schon).
Perry was quite literally the yin to Cains yang. Cain absolutely wrote his best lyrics with Perry, and Perry wrote his best lyrics with Cain. Having a singer who could sing from similar reference points was a huge plus for Cain (who shared those references). I doubt either of them will ever find success in the way they shared it, although JC will continue his writing success in Nashville.. I have no doubt. Perry obviously not.
Neal is the musical savant. That's his gift. He's a thoroughbred built for one thing. He needs a supporting cast to do what he does best, and like a thoroughbred, he needs to be directed to deliver focused output. It was that way in Santana and early Journey, although for Schon I'm sure he felt "freer" in those circumstances vs. the later, more commercial version of Journey.
In the bigger, Journey picture, what it means is they have not had that magical creative synergy, that only the 3 of those guys can have together, since those 3 guys stopped writing together.
That is why I've said before that any comparisons of any post-Perry singers/output to Cain/Perry/Schon-era Journey are simply unfair, until there is a body of co-written work to compare to the Cain/Perry/Schon-era. Given the writing credits on all of the post Cain/Perry/Schon-era output its quite obvious that the writing team hasn't been a threesome since Perry quit/left/retired.