Gun Debate

[RPM]

When's the "pressure cooker" debate start?

[Boomchild]

When's the "pressure cooker" debate start?

I already turned mine into the local authorities.

[steveo777]

Glad that laws taking away our rights, based on someone elses knee jerk reactions, don't pass. Oh, and Obama's hissy pissy response reminded me of a little kid who's mommy told him "no".

[Don]

Backround check? I don't need no stinklin' backround check!

[steveo777]

That cat's name is Carl, right?

[Don]

That cat's name is Carl, right?

As 'tards can celebrate their right to continue to buy weapons at gun shows, Carl would fit right in wouldn't he?

[steveo777]

That cat's name is Carl, right?

As 'tards can celebrate their right to continue to buy weapons at gun shows, Carl would fit right in wouldn't he?

Just a dad gum minute there, mister! Are you implying that people who want to buy weapons at gun shows are 'tards?

[Don]

That cat's name is Carl, right?

As 'tards can celebrate their right to continue to buy weapons at gun shows, Carl would fit right in wouldn't he?

Just a dad gum minute there, mister! Are you implying that people who want to buy weapons at gun shows are 'tards?

No, of course not: 'tards make up only some of the people who go there to buy guns.

[slucero]

No, of course not: 'tards make up only some of the people who go there to buy guns.

yea.. some of those show goin' gun buyers are LEO's... military... or simply law-abiding citizens..

[Memorex]

So the left is very upset about the failure of the Gun Bill to progress and Lawrence O'Donnell even blames the NRA for law enforcement not being able to find these guys faster. First off - they found them pretty damn fast.

It kind of hit me what the problem in all of this is. The NRA is constantly fighting every single advancement of control. I mean, at every turn. And you have to ask yourself why. Well, I think it's because our government has done an increasingly horrible job at separating out the valid and sane use of firearms by law abiding citizens from those that have evil intentions.

As you hear Obama and Pelosi and Reed, and Bloomberg talk, they act like normal everyday citizens are as "scary" as guys that blow people up at marathons. And if they act that way, well of course people are going to get defensive and fight back because it's pretty clear those measures will be used against everyone. It's already happening in NY.

It was said recently by someone on the left that those that believe the bible to be true should be considered crazy or dangerous. I mean, come on.

Then you have people on the right that think everything is a conspiracy and there is no common sense thought about how a society might benefit from a few rules.

I'll say it here now. There was that discussion before about the value of a child's life above an adult. I'd rather have a place where it's sad and unfortunate that anyone should die, but where our freedoms as Americans stand strong. Why? Because no one should ever be allowed to get up in the business of a human being unless they have harmed society. I'm sorry a woman has to get beaten before the police will arrest her husband. I am. But I'd be more sorry if the government felt they had a right to come into their home before a single crime had taken place.

Why is it that you see 10's of thousands of police in Boston right now looking for this guy, but several people will die in Chicago tonight without a blurb. And whatever gang member does get arrested in Chicago will be out in no time because people think we are too harsh on our criminals. Why is there any neighborhood in this country so crime riddled that the average person cannot walk down the street, and yet everyone is focused on a gun bill that solves 0% of the problem? Because the left feels like you are evil if you own a gun. And as long as they feel that, people have to fight it.

[BigOkieChris]

Not disagreeing with you... but were talking about "gun control".... not kid control...

I'm down with better kid control in this country too!!

[slucero]

Not disagreeing with you... but were talking about "gun control".... not kid control...

I'm down with better kid control in this country too!!

ya I heard that!..

[Boomchild]

As you hear Obama and Pelosi and Reed, and Bloomberg talk, they act like normal everyday citizens are as "scary" as guys that blow people up at marathons. And if they act that way, well of course people are going to get defensive and fight back because it's pretty clear those measures will be used against everyone. It's already happening in NY.

This is because your normal everyday citizen is their biggest threat. That is, the "normal everyday citizen" that can think for himself\herself, question authority and believes in liberty.

[Andrew]

The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

Australia certainly saw a large chunk of theirs arbitrarily outlawed and de facto confiscated.

Yeah, and no one here gives a fuck!
The guys that need guns still have them, the bad ones got pulped and there hasn't been ONE SINGLE gun massacre since.

[verslibre]

The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

Australia certainly saw a large chunk of theirs arbitrarily outlawed and de facto confiscated.

Yeah, and no one here gives a fuck!
The guys that need guns still have them, the bad ones got pulped and there hasn't been ONE SINGLE gun massacre since.

There are fewer people on that continent than the population of the state of California.

Process that.

[Memorex]

The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

Australia certainly saw a large chunk of theirs arbitrarily outlawed and de facto confiscated.

Yeah, and no one here gives a fuck!
The guys that need guns still have them, the bad ones got pulped and there hasn't been ONE SINGLE gun massacre since.

If it's that easy to take away something so easily when "no one there gives a shit", then I guess the lesson for me is that we better keep giving a shit about our rights lest they continue to be taken away.

I don't know about Australia, but I can say 100% without a doubt that if all criminals in America knew no homes had guns, it would be a free for all of rape and theft. Any American disagree? With all the crime there is now, imagine this place if criminals never had to worry.

[verslibre]

I don't know about Australia, but I can say 100% without a doubt that if all criminals in America knew no homes had guns, it would be a free for all of rape and theft. Any American disagree? With all the crime there is now, imagine this place if criminals never had to worry.

Everywhere I look on the InterWebs, it seems as though everyone who is not an American citizen or US-based thinks s/he knows what's best for here. They refuse to acknowledge that aspect and laugh it off, thinking that if everyone turned in their guns, it would be the end of theft, violence, rape and pillaging as we know it, as though common thugs and career criminals would be effectively neutered. No offense, but what the fuck are they inhaling in Europe, Oz and wherever?

[slucero]

I don't know about Australia, but I can say 100% without a doubt that if all criminals in America knew no homes had guns, it would be a free for all of rape and theft. Any American disagree? With all the crime there is now, imagine this place if criminals never had to worry.

Everywhere I look on the InterWebs, it seems as though everyone who is not an American citizen or US-based thinks s/he knows what's best for here. They refuse to acknowledge that aspect and laugh it off, thinking that if everyone turned in their guns, it would be the end of theft, violence, rape and pillaging as we know it, as though common thugs and career criminals would be effectively neutered. No offense, but what the fuck are they inhaling in Europe, Oz and wherever?

Ya.. that argument always makes me roll my eyes.. especially when you look at the real facts.


The FBI compiles all violent crime data annually, and releases a report on it titled "Crime in the United States". You can see the 2011 report here:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011

Within the report is the "violent crime" category. The FBI also defines "violent crime" as: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

This table is the year-over-year change for that violent crime from 2007 to 2011.



This table is gun sale FBI background checks vs. the very same FBI violent crime data shown above..





So how...

• when more guns have been sold in this country, EVERY YEAR since 2003,
• violent crime has FALLEN since 2006,

...can any logical, reasoning person come to the conclusion that there is a correlation between an increase in guns and an increase in violent crime?


We all know that police are decreasing due to budget cuts. So the drop can't be due to an increased police presence as a deterrent. People are on edge due to the economy, so violent crime should be increasing. Yet violent crime has fallen.

So what is the logical deterrent? The data clearly demonstrates that public ownership of firearms is actually a crime deterrent.

In fairness, the preliminary 2012 FBI Crime in the United States report does indicate increases in violent crime. But thinking logically, with the decreasing police presence this makes sense. It is illogical to assume that the increase is due to gun sales, because what has changed is the shrinking aggregate size of the municipal LEO forces as those municipalities are forced to cut costs.

So taking away the public's ability to defend itself from criminals (who do not obey the laws, much less buy guns legally), at a time when there are increasingly fewer LEO's would also appear to be illogical, especially when looking at the FBI's own facts.

[Memorex]

Having lived most of my life in California and the last several years in Minnesota, I clearly see the difference. In California, everyone is generally afraid of "the bad guys". There are certain neighborhoods that cannot be entered, people you don't say a word to for fear of retaliation, etc. Crime is very blatant. It's why I moved. In a very short span, we had an intruder in the house and a gun pulled on me and my kids. Not to mention the crime rate was skyrocketing in the former Safest Big City in the US. The place I called my hometown no longer felt like it.

Fast forward to MN and there are many, many citizens with guns here. It's open carry, so you see them quite a bit. It's pretty much presumed that entering an unknown house in MN will likely get you killed. But it's not cowboy and macho, it's respected. I was really freaked out by it at first. I was so conditioned.

There is some statistic out there that I am too tired to look at regarding the number of legally registered weapons used in crimes. VERY LOW. This country, while very violent for a variety of reasons, has a long history of respectable, cherished gun ownership. We also have the right to defend ourselves from people that the authorities can't seem to stop. What's wrong with that.

I know this will bother some, but I really feel like the anti-gun crowd has not looked at the issue in a meaningful and honest way. The problem is the criminals. They tear lives apart, whether it's with guns, or sexual assault, or knives, or bullying, or theft. This country has never truly addressed that problem and simply saying we should take guns away is simple minded and in the end, a fruitless effort to end crime. They can never seem to admit that crime is down and mass killings are actually down. It's just not an honest debate from them. If you don't want guns, you have that right and you should be able to fight like hell for destruction of them. But do it with honest debate. That goes for both sides, by the way. It's the same as the climate crisis folks.

This country was always so good about not punishing the law abiding vast majority for the sins of a few. But now we want to create laws and regulate to the exceptions.

How about we don't pay the mayor of Chicago and the Governor of Illinois a salary until crime goes down, until murders drop significantly? How about we take nearly every dollar spent on solar and wind subsidies and hire more police? How about we look at the Clinton efforts of after school programs and find ways to expand those? How about we put the next RNC and DNC conventions in the worst section of Detroit until Detroit is a fine place again? How about we we relocate the capital building there? Let's see congressmen and women run from their cars to their offices in fear. Hard to feel the real world from a DC steakhouse.

I don't know. An honest conversation based in reality would be great on this and many other topics.

[Archetype]

The government is NOT going to try to take away ALL guns. That is a ridiculous argument that gun activists make that has never been brought to the table.

Australia certainly saw a large chunk of theirs arbitrarily outlawed and de facto confiscated.

Yeah, and no one here gives a fuck!
The guys that need guns still have them, the bad ones got pulped and there hasn't been ONE SINGLE gun massacre since.

So there haven't been any high-profile massacres, well...ok. How many gun deaths does Australia have per year? I'm betting it's still well above zero.

Russia has laws that are as strict, if not more strict than Australia's laws, so tell me how this just happened?

http://rt.com/news/belgorod-shooting-russia-killed-198/

[Boomchild]

I have been hearing a lot of legislators that are in favor of stricter gun laws throwing around the statistic that 90% of Americans want a change in our gun laws. My question is, where are they getting this statistic from or are they just pulling it out of their asses?

[slucero]

I have been hearing a lot of legislators that are in favor of stricter gun laws throwing around the statistic that 90% of Americans want a change in our gun laws. My question is, where are they getting this statistic from or are they just pulling it out of their asses?

Here's a picture of where they are getting this from...

[Boomchild]

Here's a picture of where they are getting this from...

Exactly what I thought but was not sure if they were referring to some obscure or misquoted poll. Of course you won't have the mainstream media question those that quote this statistic where they are getting it from. My thinking is that the federal government is going to keep trying to dry up the ammunition supply so that ammo is extremely expensive or almost impossible to get. That way a more strict gun law won't matter because you will have a very hard time getting ammo for your guns.

[slucero]

some of the liberal states will do that for them..

all that will do is force people to drive to neighbor states to get ammo...

[Boomchild]

Here's the latest anti gun hysteria event to occur in a public school setting. By the time these anti-gun fanatics are done indoctrinating children, they will be more helpless then ever. If I had children, I would not have them enrolled in the public school system for reasons like this as well as a host of others. This is just so pathetic.



http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/29/kinde ... a-quarter/

[Liam]

Saw that this morning, and I couldn't wrap my head around the absolute fucking STUPIDITY. Just like that Pop tart incident. It didn't look like a fucking gun...it looked more like Oklahoma, for Christ's sake.

[JH'sTXfan]

[AR]

I used to bring toy guns to school in the 70's. Nothing ever happened but fun.

Look at the pieces of shit in our society and correct that first. Any tool in the hands of an idiot can be a problem. Stop letting idiots procreate and lock up those who commit crimes. Very simple but no one has the guts to do it.

And to my conservative friends (who I agree with on many things) Abortion and free birth control are GOOD things. We don't have enough jails. Legalize drugs, stop unwanted pregnancies and THEN people who should be populating the planet for it's future will be. The law of natural selection will run it's course if you let it with the rest.

[JH'sTXfan]

I used to bring toy guns to school in the 70's. Nothing ever happened but fun.

Look at the pieces of shit in our society and correct that first. Any tool in the hands of an idiot can be a problem. Stop letting idiots procreate and lock up those who commit crimes. Very simple but no one has the guts to do it.

And to my conservative friends (who I agree with on many things) Abortion and free birth control are GOOD things. We don't have enough jails. Legalize drugs, stop unwanted pregnancies and THEN people who should be populating the planet for it's future will be. The law of natural selection will run it's course if you let it with the rest.

I agree with you on the free birth control. And Yes to legalizing marijuana, it's a product of nature, though I think it can be a *edit> "deterrent" to a productive life. Synthetic drugs should be illegal, they're poisoning our youth, just because they're young and dumb doesn't mean they deserve to die. Just happened a few weeks ago to a friend's son. Abortion...just makes me sad.

[Boomchild]

Saw that this morning, and I couldn't wrap my head around the absolute fucking STUPIDITY. Just like that Pop tart incident. It didn't look like a fucking gun...it looked more like Oklahoma, for Christ's sake.

What gets me is just how many people don't realize just how ridiculous they are. Their like drone who can't think for themselves or outside of the box. After all, the people running these institutions are supposed to have a higher level of education and yet they act like morons.