Perfect pitch may not be so 'perfect'

[Don]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22871651
By Melissa Hogenboom
Science reporter, BBC News


People classified with perfect pitch may not actually be as in tune with the notes they hear as they think.

Played a long piece of music, a study group failed to notice when scientists turned the tones ever so slightly flat. They then misidentified in-tune sounds as being sharp.

Researchers say it demonstrates the adaptability of the mind even for those skills thought to be fixed at birth.

They have published the work in the journal Psychological Science.

Only around one in 10,000 people has the ability to correctly classify a note simply by hearing it. This phenomenon is called perfect, or absolute, pitch, and has been made famous by the well-known composers who are believed to have possessed such talents, such as Mozart and Beethoven.

Graduate student Stephen Hedger, from the University of Chicago, US, had perfect pitch identified by objective tests. He explained what it meant.

"I'm able to name any musical note in isolation without the aid of a reference note. Someone with perfect pitch would be able to tell you a car alarm is honking in F sharp, for example. Generally it enables people to identify notes across a wide variety of octaves."

Mr Hedger was tricked by his colleague who secretly adjusted the pitch on an electronic keyboard as he was playing a tune. The notes were made flat by 33 cents - which is one-third of the distance between adjacent keys on a piano.

When the note was shifted back to its original correct key, it sounded drastically sharp to Hedger, who explained he found it "shocking" that he had not noticed the change.

A similar model was tested on 27 students with perfect pitch. They were played a piece of music for 45 minutes which was gradually changed over time to become flatter.

The subjects then perceived the flattened music as in tune, while the in-tune notes were perceived as slightly sharp.

"In the literature, perfect pitch is talked about as a fixed ability, so it was quite surprising to find that as little as 45 minutes of de-tuned music could temporarily shift note categories," Mr Hedger told BBC News.

"What this points to is the malleability of the human brain. Relatively brief exposure to flattened music is able to rearrange what was thought to be a very long-term and stable note category.

"This is a great example of how our immediate surroundings and perceptions can change the way in which we view the world."

Prof Howard Nusbaum, another author of the study also from the University of Chicago, said these findings could tell us whether or not individuals could also improve their pitch perception as opposed to "de-tuning it".

"We are finding out more and more about how our brains are equipped to learn new things at any age and not limited by abilities previously thought to be available only from the time of birth," he said.

The researchers will now look at whether or not they can improve people's perception of pitch.

[artist4perry]

Well I am sure being of perfect pitch to a scientist is not close enough! LOL But there are many who can hear a note and get pretty darn close. I had to learn by ear because I could not read notes when I was a teenager. I have learned to read music to some degree now, but I can still get pretty close if I hear a note played and sing it right after. I had to learn to sing a lot of songs by listening and practicing what I heard.

Having that said I don't possess the talents many here at MR do...Nora, Susie P, GI, Wooley, Jeremy and many others who sing in front of audiences all the time. My talents lie mostly to the visual arts. I still love to sing and I do sing quite regularly around the house, in the car, and on rare occasion on a stage for a charity or two. I admire those who can sing and play instruments...it is a talent that touches the heart. So even if their pitches are not Perfect to a scientist...they are close enough for these ears, and I do enjoy listening to them do their thing!

[artist4perry]

Hey Don do you sing or play instruments?

[Don]

Hey Don do you sing or play instruments?

I sang in a band in High School and used to play basic keyboards (nothing more advanced than "Beth"). My son is pretty good with it all though. He plays guitar, keys, light singing. Also mixing his own music, creating songs with vocaloid and things like that.
For myself, I no longer feel any desire for music beyond simply listening to it. The band thing was okay but eventually you want to sing your own stuff and not mimic others. Realizing I didn't have the skills for it, I just moved onto things I was actually good at.
I'll sing the occasional karaoke tune or proof some of my son's efforts but overall, I'd rather have someone else do the creative work and I'll just pay for it.

[artist4perry]

Hey Don do you sing or play instruments?

I sang in a band in High School and used to play basic keyboards (nothing more advanced than "Beth"). My son is pretty good with it all though. He plays guitar, keys, light singing. Also mixing his own music, creating songs with vocaloid and things like that.
For myself, I no longer feel any desire for music beyond simply listening to it. The band thing was okay but eventually you want to sing your own stuff and not mimic others. Realizing I didn't have the skills for it, I just moved onto things I was actually good at.
I'll sing the occasional karaoke tune or proof some of my son's efforts but overall, I'd rather have someone else do the creative work and I'll just pay for it.

I was just wondering...for someone who seems to love the music business I thought you might be at least a shower singer on the side. I cannot play an instrument...bought a guitar but I have not learned to play it yet. I sing in church and for fun. You strike me as the analytical type. I was wondering if you ever let your hair down... on the side for something just frivolous and fun. The key is not just to be the best, but to enjoy it for the sake of enjoyment. Maybe you should just for you? Just a thought.

[Don]

Hey Don do you sing or play instruments?

I sang in a band in High School and used to play basic keyboards (nothing more advanced than "Beth"). My son is pretty good with it all though. He plays guitar, keys, light singing. Also mixing his own music, creating songs with vocaloid and things like that.
For myself, I no longer feel any desire for music beyond simply listening to it. The band thing was okay but eventually you want to sing your own stuff and not mimic others. Realizing I didn't have the skills for it, I just moved onto things I was actually good at.
I'll sing the occasional karaoke tune or proof some of my son's efforts but overall, I'd rather have someone else do the creative work and I'll just pay for it.

I was just wondering...for someone who seems to love the music business I thought you might be at least a shower singer on the side. I cannot play an instrument...bought a guitar but I have not learned to play it yet. I sing in church and for fun. You strike me as the analytical type. I was wondering if you ever let your hair down... on the side for something just frivolous and fun. The key is not just to be the best, but to enjoy it for the sake of enjoyment. Maybe you should just for you? Just a thought.

I've gone out and done karaoke, at restaurants and in friends homes so letting my hair down isn't an issue. I consider myself pretty chill in person as some here who have met me might attest.
I've got quite a few hobbies which are enjoyable to me. History is a favorite of mine. Whether it's combing over the stones on a Roman era aqueduct or looking for flints on an old battlefield, my wife says I look like a kid in a candy store. After two months in England, She stopped going out on my foraging expeditions out of boredom but she knows I enjoy so she was co with it. To me, living in Europe was like one big playground. In Japan though, we both loved visiting the old temples, many built over 500 years ago. I think the Asian horticulture was what attracted her in those instances Different strokes for different folks as they say. Anyway, as you can see I'm not all doom and gloom, regardless of how it may appear. It is the internet after all. Just anonymous people typing out digital bits in cyberspace.

[Duncan]

A4P. I don't think having perfect pitch is hearing a note and being able to sing it. Most people can do that. If you can't do that I think you are what is called "tone deaf". What your talking about is being able to sing in tune.

[artist4perry]

Don, I figured as much as far as not seeing the whole you on MR. I am sure we don't get the whole person here. Sometimes it is easy to misunderstand people and take things wrong due to nothing more than the typed word. I think we fail to get the facial and physical cues to truly get a person's demeanor. Sometimes I read things wrong. I was just wondering if you had a musical side to go with your knowledge that is all.
Duncan, you would be amazed at how many people cannot sing what they hear, then be able to retain what they learn. I know what you mean about carrying a tune though...I hear people every day especially my ex who sound terrible because they cannot tie it all together to make it even sound remotely like the original song.

[Duncan]

I agree, but perfect pitch is not the ability to sing in tune.

[Memorex]

Does this explain how Brittney Spears can sell records?

[artist4perry]

I wasn't referring to perfect pitch when I was talking about people singing in tune... that is a whole different thing...

This is perfect pitch as some describe it the way I understand it to be...Play a note on a piano and the singer reproduce the same note...either in sound or...name...do-re-mi-fa so la ti do...etc...or if you prefer A sharp B flat etc...
per·fect pitch
Noun
The ability to recognize the pitch of a note or to produce any given note; [/b[b]]a sense of absolute pitch.

Is this a more accurate description in your book Duncan?

[Duncan]

Not really. Being given a random note on a piano and being able to name it is perfect pitch. Being given a note on a piano and being able to sing it is not. However, the ability to sing a given note without reference to a note played on a piano is.

[Don]

Not really. Being given a random note on a piano and being able to name it is perfect pitch. Being given a note on a piano and being able to sing it is not. However, the ability to sing a given note without reference to a note played on a piano is.

And I think that is what the article is talking about. The phrase "perfect pitch is thrown around a lot but in reality, only 1 person in 10,000 actually fits the criteria.

[artist4perry]

Not really. Being given a random note on a piano and being able to name it is perfect pitch. Being given a note on a piano and being able to sing it is not. However, the ability to sing a given note without reference to a note played on a piano is.

And I think that is what the article is talking about. The phrase "perfect pitch is thrown around a lot but in reality, only 1 person in 10,000 actually fits the criteria.

Oh well I missed the definition a bit. It has been a while since I studied sight reading in college. I took one course to learn to read music for church. We sing in a Capella so it is better if you can sing a bit more accurately. I get what you are saying about perfect pitch, and I agree it is not a common talent. I think you can sing well but not have perfect pitch. But then I am an artist and not a professional musician and I am going to sing my song regardless of worrying about weather it is perfect or not. I did love a game my dad used to play with me...he was a song leader and he would blow a note on a pitch pipe and I would try and sing it. It helped me be able to hear a note when it is played and repeat the note back. I don not have perfect pitch though, just a love for music in general.

I do know Duncan likes to sing though...I remember him singing for us before.

[Don]

Not really. Being given a random note on a piano and being able to name it is perfect pitch. Being given a note on a piano and being able to sing it is not. However, the ability to sing a given note without reference to a note played on a piano is.

And I think that is what the article is talking about. The phrase "perfect pitch is thrown around a lot but in reality, only 1 person in 10,000 actually fits the criteria.

Oh well I missed the definition a bit. It has been a while since I studied sight reading in college. I took one course to learn to read music for church. We sing in a Capella so it is better if you can sing a bit more accurately. I get what you are saying about perfect pitch, and I agree it is not a common talent. I think you can sing well but not have perfect pitch. But then I am an artist and not a professional musician and I am going to sing my song regardless of worrying about weather it is perfect or not. I did love a game my dad used to play with me...he was a song leader and he would blow a note on a pitch pipe and I would try and sing it. It helped me be able to hear a note when it is played and repeat the note back. I don not have perfect pitch though, just a love for music in general.

I do know Duncan likes to sing though...I remember him singing for us before.

I think the article is about music more than singing. The rarity of a person like Mozart who can tell immediately from ear what note is being played. The person who can hear a car alarm and tell you correctly that is in F sharp without the aid of a reference note.

[artist4perry]

Mozart was amazing. As I said, I just love music in general, the more I learn the better. I appreciate you sharing your article and being candid on your own musical past. Sorry Duncan if my definition was off. As I said it has been a while since I took that course in basic sight reading.

[Duncan]

It's your reading ability and comprehension skills that are off.

[artist4perry]

It's your reading ability and comprehension skills that are off.

I guess the compliment about you being able to sing was just too much and you had to get a dig back?
Are you capable of having a decent conversation without being a jerk?

Could you possibly just have a conversation, explain something maybe someone is not that knowledgeable about...and just let your explanation be enough?

Thanks Don for your explanation.

[majik]

Only one in 10,000 ?? my ego is crushed

[Duncan]

I guess the compliment about you being able to sing was just too much and you had to get a dig back?
Are you capable of having a decent conversation without being a jerk?

Could you possibly just have a conversation, explain something maybe someone is not that knowledgeable about...and just let your explanation be enough?

Thanks Don for your explanation.[/quote]

That was a compliment? Came across as snide to me. Compliments don't normally require a "dig back".

All the knowledge you needed for a sensible conversation is in the article. Unfortunately, in your haste to have a dig at scientists you either completely misunderstood it or, giving you the benefit if the doubt, didn't read it properly. Don's "explanation", which you found so helpful was just repeating, almost verbatim, the words of the article.

[artist4perry]

The part about your singing was not meant to be snide I was trying to be nice. Don mentioned his past in music I was pointing out you used to sing...end of story. I said nothing derogatory about your singing and was not trying to take a jab at you.

Your reading things into my words I never meant nor said. I have no problem with what the scientists said. It would be impossible for a person to measure a note the same as a scientist. Some are quite talented though and come pretty darn close.

Even if I read it wrong, got it wrong, said it wrong there is a vast difference in the way you reacted and the way Don reacted. He pointed out what I had missed..that was all. That was all that was required.

I was just trying to have a nice conversation about music that was it.

[Duncan]

You still seem to be misunderstanding the article, but never mind. I'm more intrigued about your idea that I used to sing. What are you referring to?

[conversationpc]

OK...I've read the entire thread here and don't see even a hint of Ginger being "snide". Boy, talk about reading and comprehension skills being off.

[Duncan]

Hi Dave. I remember the last time you entertained me with your wit and intelligence

[Duncan]

Dave, just in case you didn't catch it, that was a compliment.

[conversationpc]

Hi Dave. I remember the last time you entertained me with your wit and intelligence

That must've been when I was sanding the calluses off my knuckles. Refresh my memory.

Dave, just in case you didn't catch it, that was a compliment.

Yeah, I missed the subtlety there.

[JRNYMAN]

I sang in a band in High School and used to play basic keyboards (nothing more advanced than "Beth").

Beth was the first rock song I learned how to play on the piano! And I had already been playing and taking lessons for 7 years when I learned it! Damned Mormon, over-protective parents!

I'll chime in here about perfect pitch. I have it. I had no idea I had it when I learned that I did and then when I learned I had it, I had no idea what it was. I had a piano teacher early on who was sought out by my over-zealous mother who was certain I was the next Liberace by the time I was 8! (Don't even get me started... ) The teacher, who I later learned was actually a big deal in San Francisco at the time, although I was oblivious, identified it in me by something I did which aroused his curiosity. He then gave me an on the spot test which consisted of little more than me with my back to the piano and him playing various notes and having me call out the note and its octave. When I got older, I was skeptical about his tests actually identifying an individual with perfect pitch. I wanted to believe it was more the familiarity with the keyboard and having played the middle 54 keys thousands of times. But, I then learned that I could identify any of the 88 keys/notes accurately. In contrast to that, I can start singing the first line of a song (as long as I know it) and with 100% accuracy sing it in the right key and kick it off with the first syllable on the right note.
And although it's fairly rare, the only time it ever comes in handy or useful is when someone is attempting to cover a particular song and begin singing a capella but in the wrong key. If I know the particular song, I can pull it up in my mind and actually "hear it" and from that I can tell you what key it's in and tell you what note the first syllable of the first word is. Other than that.... not a super-duper skill to possess. Oh sure it's great at parties..... (I'm shaking my head "No" as I say that... )