Zimmerman/Martin

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Boomchild » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:50 pm

JH'sTXfan wrote:
Boomchild wrote: Martin 's mistake was not call 911 himself to report that he was being followed and felt threatened or went to someone's house and ask for help. Instead he calls a girlfriend to tell her about a "creepy cracker" following him. I also think it's hard to relate how one should react unless you are in the exact situation. All in all it's up to a jury to weigh the evidence presented and make a decision.


He didn't call 911 because he was stoned.


Maybe so, but he was coherent enough to dial up the girl he called. Just add it to the list of mistakes Martin made in handling the situation.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Boomchild » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:03 pm

steveo777 wrote:I've seen enough. Not guilty.....of anything. And people should raise their kids differently if they don't want them meet the same fate as TM and others like him.


From what has been presented about Zimmerman, I think one could make a case that he may have been over zealous when it came to being part of the neighborhood watch. I believe Zimmerman was recorded on the 911 call as saying "these guys always seem to get away". If this is true, then that puts the question of did Zimmerman feel Martin was already guilty of something therefore spurring Zimmerman to pursue him as if he was.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:53 pm

Boomchild wrote:
steveo777 wrote:I've seen enough. Not guilty.....of anything. And people should raise their kids differently if they don't want them meet the same fate as TM and others like him.


From what has been presented about Zimmerman, I think one could make a case that he may have been over zealous when it came to being part of the neighborhood watch. I believe Zimmerman was recorded on the 911 call as saying "these guys always seem to get away". If this is true, then that puts the question of did Zimmerman feel Martin was already guilty of something therefore spurring Zimmerman to pursue him as if he was.


Yea. This is the part that sticks out for me. He refers to him (by association) as a punk. I mean, the kid is just walking by.

I really think there are two lessons here. Leave people alone unless you really have a reason and don't pick fights with people because you don't know how it will end. They both made mistakes I guess.

It's just a really weird situation because I really think there are two facts. 1 - Zimmerman shouldn't have batted an eye when he saw martin - it's just a kid walking by. There is no reason this kid should be dead. And 2 - If you are on top of someone and you are beating them and threatening them, you run a risk of getting shot and you have no one to blame but yourself. No one should be beat just for being over-zealous.

It's a tragedy all the way around, but then many kids are killed each week and no one seems to care.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:57 pm

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby steveo777 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:52 pm



That will be due to ignorance and yet more proof that THEY have not advanced, as a society. Whites will not riot if Zimmerman is convicted. We'll simply appeal. The sad fact is that this will end up as a racially charged agenda, in the end, if Z is acquitted. You know it. Which brings me to the question; Why do African Americans seem to feel the need to make the worst of themselves, no matter what? They don't need much of an excuse. I hope the liquor stores are stocking up on 40's.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:14 pm

steveo777 wrote:


That will be due to ignorance and yet more proof that THEY have not advanced, as a society. Whites will not riot if Zimmerman is convicted. We'll simply appeal. The sad fact is that this will end up as a racially charged agenda, in the end, if Z is acquitted. You know it. Which brings me to the question; Why do African Americans seem to feel the need to make the worst of themselves, no matter what? They don't need much of an excuse. I hope the liquor stores are stocking up on 40's.


Well certainly we can agree that the Black experience in America is very VERY different than the White experience. The ingrained feelings and thought process didn't just get there for nothing. We've come a long way as a nation, but generationally - it's going to take a whole lot longer for many of these things to pass.

I read many of the comments on some of those web pages and it really strikes me how prejudice and backward-ass some people still are. And yes, I realize it's the same in reverse. But it's definitely not a "thing of the past". So the bitter unfairness that some may feel if Zimmerman is freed isn't just about this case, but about American History and much of the ignorance that still exists.

Fortunately or unfortunately, we have gotten to a point where many of the people that still feel that hatred are going to have to start helping themselves more. For starters, stop killing each other. Stop letting tough situation imprison you. Stop having children without a stable home. And if you feel the justice system lets you down, don't burn down your neighbor's home or car or business. I know it's much easier for me to say as a middle-aged white guy with a good paying job. I don't pretend it's easy. But I'm not sure how much more we can give before we are actually harming much of the people in those situations. We've made it far too easy to sit around and not work. I heard the other day there are more adults on food assistance than are in the workforce. Not good. Many, many policies meant to help have really created more issues.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby AR » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:59 pm

If you view more liberal media, this is the Trayvon you know:

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But if you prefer more conservative media, this is your Trayvon:

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Note that the double middle finger picture on the lower right has been discredit by the original publisher to their credit. (Same name, different school)
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Journey Mom » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:26 am

The judge is going to let the jury consider manslaughter charges instead of the murder. That may change everything verdict wise.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Hollywood » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:01 am

steveo777 wrote:


That will be due to ignorance and yet more proof that THEY have not advanced, as a society. Whites will not riot if Zimmerman is convicted. We'll simply appeal. The sad fact is that this will end up as a racially charged agenda, in the end, if Z is acquitted. You know it. Which brings me to the question; Why do African Americans seem to feel the need to make the worst of themselves, no matter what? They don't need much of an excuse. I hope the liquor stores are stocking up on 40's.



That is such a generalized statement. Not all people of one race act, believe, or behave in the same way. I am white and the outcome of this trial will have zero effect on my life and I won’t be appealing anything.

The media is making this a racial issue. The parents are not making it a racial issue and neither has the court.

And as a college kid I drank many 40s and again I am white.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:38 am

Probably a lot of truth in this article. My only concern with it is there is no mention of the really high volume of threats in social media surrounding this case and how that same social media can be used to escalate things.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/07/11/preparing-for-riots-after-zimmerman-verdict-is-racial-fear-mongering/?iid=tsmodule
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby The Sushi Hunter » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:09 am

Here's an interesting video out of San Fran. Dude robbs chick and then finishes her off by.....well watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAgjaV_EPbs
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby No Surprize » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:17 am

There are 50 states in the union and I'm fucking positive that there is a murder trail going on in every one of them. So, why does the media only focus on this particular one? To me, they are trying to add fuel to the fire. Constantly making it out to be black vs white, going on & on beating the dead horse to the point of no return. Getting nearby towns & cities to be on the look out for riots, interviewing local sheriffs from Mayberry to L.A. further fueling the fire. Why not cover the murder of the child in Idaho? The bum under the bridge in Detroit? How come they aren't covering the fucking terrorist that tried to take out half of Boston? Or cover the nut jobs & ask them why their sticking up for that cock sucker? I'm surprised John doesn't go down there & start kicking ass & taking names. And really, who the fuck really cares? The only ones really are the victims & the defendants families. No one will be even thinking about this after a year other than them. The media WANTS something to come of this so they will have more dirty laundry to spew out for us to hear. This trail is being force fed down your throat from the local & national news, radio stations, etc. I haven't followed it one iota, but from hearing about it the only one who knows what REALLY happened is Zimmerman and he's going to have to carry the burden of whatever the outcome is for the rest of his life.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby The Sushi Hunter » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:09 am

No Surprize wrote:There are 50 states in the union and I'm fucking positive that there is a murder trail going on in every one of them. So, why does the media only focus on this particular one? To me, they are trying to add fuel to the fire. Constantly making it out to be black vs white, going on & on beating the dead horse to the point of no return. Getting nearby towns & cities to be on the look out for riots, interviewing local sheriffs from Mayberry to L.A. further fueling the fire. Why not cover the murder of the child in Idaho? The bum under the bridge in Detroit? How come they aren't covering the fucking terrorist that tried to take out half of Boston? Or cover the nut jobs & ask them why their sticking up for that cock sucker? I'm surprised John doesn't go down there & start kicking ass & taking names. And really, who the fuck really cares? The only ones really are the victims & the defendants families. No one will be even thinking about this after a year other than them. The media WANTS something to come of this so they will have more dirty laundry to spew out for us to hear. This trail is being force fed down your throat from the local & national news, radio stations, etc. I haven't followed it one iota, but from hearing about it the only one who knows what REALLY happened is Zimmerman and he's going to have to carry the burden of whatever the outcome is for the rest of his life.



I agree, but the media isn't doing black on white, they are always only doing white on black. There is a difference, as they are making it out as though only whites victimize blacks and that it's never the other way around.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby RPM » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:48 am

I said from the beginning it was dumb for the state to bring murder 2 charges instead of manslaughter.
I was wrong. They obviously knew the jury could convict on lesser charge and that was the plan all along.
Boomerchild stated he was going to his car and not pursuing him, I dont know where you got that, If you listen
to his 911 call the operator is trying to pin him down on where the officer can meet him. he wont give a firm answer,
then he told her " just have him call me and Ill tell him where I am" he did this because contrary to what he was told
he was still pursuing him. This fight didnt happen by zimmermans car as he was waiting for police. I also believe martin struck zimmerman and was on top of him, which according to florida law gives him the right to use the gun he was
legally able to carry. They both screwed up, one is dead and the other will serve some time for manslaughter.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby AR » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:06 am

No Surprize wrote:There are 50 states in the union and I'm fucking positive that there is a murder trail going on in every one of them. So, why does the media only focus on this particular one? To me, they are trying to add fuel to the fire. Constantly making it out to be black vs white, going on & on beating the dead horse to the point of no return. Getting nearby towns & cities to be on the look out for riots, interviewing local sheriffs from Mayberry to L.A. further fueling the fire. Why not cover the murder of the child in Idaho? The bum under the bridge in Detroit? How come they aren't covering the fucking terrorist that tried to take out half of Boston? Or cover the nut jobs & ask them why their sticking up for that cock sucker? I'm surprised John doesn't go down there & start kicking ass & taking names. And really, who the fuck really cares? The only ones really are the victims & the defendants families. No one will be even thinking about this after a year other than them. The media WANTS something to come of this so they will have more dirty laundry to spew out for us to hear. This trail is being force fed down your throat from the local & national news, radio stations, etc. I haven't followed it one iota, but from hearing about it the only one who knows what REALLY happened is Zimmerman and he's going to have to carry the burden of whatever the outcome is for the rest of his life.


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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Boomchild » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:11 pm

What I think this all comes down to is, was Zimmerman in the right to use deadly force in this situation. You have to weigh if someone in his position could actually feel that their life is in danger. I think it's quite possible to feel this way if someone is sitting on top of you punching you about in the head and slamming your head in the ground. If Martin was the one to start the fight, then he took the risks involved. I really doubt that he was naive to not consider someone could have a firearm on them walking around after dark. Prior to the actual fight neither of them were doing anything against the law. I will say that I feel Zimmerman made an error in judgement to carry a firearm instead of something non lethal i.e. mace or a taser. Were talking about neighborhood WATCH not apprehend and detain.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby No Surprize » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:23 pm

I agree, but the media isn't doing black on white, they are always only doing white on black. There is a difference, as they are making it out as though only whites victimize blacks and that it's never the other way around.


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Sushi, never said black on white, it's black vs white, but that doesn't really matter. Whats is a fact is there is more black on black crime than any crime going on period. They kill each other every day, but that isn't covered and if it is it's on a local level & just a foot note, like ho hum, what ever. From looking at this deeper, Zimmerman was in the wrong. You can be a wannabe police man with your neighborhood crime watch. You can report something suspicious. It ends there.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Marabelle » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:41 pm

What's sad to me is that a young man died on his way home after buying Skittles and something to drank. It's not white or black. It's someone being followed because he looked suspicious to a man who had dreams of being a police man and felt he should keep an eye on a teenager who was walking down the street. The young man didn't provoke him. He was on the phone walking home. He just felt uneasy because a "creepy" man was following him. Murder? Manslaughter? A man died on his way home after buying Skittles. If that was your brother, son, father, uncle, cousin or friend wouldn't you want the person who killed him to be punished? Who provoke who? Who followed who? One person had a gun and the other had a bag of Skittles.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby AR » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:06 am

Marabelle wrote:What's sad to me is that a young man died on his way home after buying Skittles and something to drank. It's not white or black. It's someone being followed because he looked suspicious to a man who had dreams of being a police man and felt he should keep an eye on a teenager who was walking down the street. The young man didn't provoke him. He was on the phone walking home. He just felt uneasy because a "creepy" man was following him. Murder? Manslaughter? A man died on his way home after buying Skittles. If that was your brother, son, father, uncle, cousin or friend wouldn't you want the person who killed him to be punished? Who provoke who? Who followed who? One person had a gun and the other had a bag of Skittles.


This was sad too. Newlywed walking home and savagely beaten and killed by 4 people. Why was this not national news? Notice the ages of the assailants. Ironically one named Trayvon.

http://www.jhu.edu/jhumag/0608web/sowers.html


Zach Sowers walked the 10 blocks home alone. As he did, four teenagers — Trayvon Ramos and Eric Price, 16; Arthur Jeter Jr., 17; and Wilburt Martin, 19 — parked a borrowed Dodge Stratus two blocks up the street from the Sowerses' rowhouse. "We went out to rob somebody," Price later told police. When Ramos saw Zach walking up the street, he said, "Like him right there," Price recalled.

Ramos and Price got out and walked toward Zach, while Jeter and Martin waited in the car. When Zach reached his front steps, Ramos, who outweighed Zach by 90 pounds, applied his heft and his fist to knock Zach out, Price said. Ramos then used the fender of a Nissan Sentra parked outside the house as leverage, leaning on it with his right hand as he repeatedly slammed his foot against the back of Zach's head, which lay between the car and the curb. When police arrived, they thought the man lying facedown in the gutter, a flung flip-flop a few feet south of him, might be drunk. A flashlight search discovered his head was bloodied — the first sign of the long struggle his brain and body would eventually lose.

After brutalizing Zach; stealing his watch, cell phone, and wallet; and using his credit card to buy cigars, food, and gasoline, the quartet went on a weeklong crime spree, robbing Martin's next-door neighbor of $300 at gunpoint and pistol-whipping a tattoo artist hired by Martin. By the end of the week, detectives in Baltimore County had tracked down the car (seen in gas station videotapes) to a rundown suburban apartment complex, where they found Zach's watch and wallet, along with a backpack of tattoo equipment.

City police brought each of the defendants in for questioning. "Some were remorseful, but others had no emotion at all," says city robbery detective Phil Lassahn, one of several cops who cracked the case. Ramos laughed upon hearing Martin's first name and denied any involvement in the beating or knowledge of the other suspects. Earlier, in an interview room, Lassahn had shown the other three suspects pictures of Zach Sowers' bloodied, swollen head. They confessed to being there, adding that Ramos had done the beating, which Price labeled a "scraping." Price was the first to finger Ramos: "He just got a problem," he told Lassahn. "He's violent."

If what happened to Zach Sowers wasn't so horrific and real, it would qualify as an urban cliché, a cautionary tale from the gentrification file. The victim is white; the assailants, black. The Sowerses were newcomers, former suburbanites who chose to live in an up-and-coming city neighborhood. The young men were residents of the other Baltimore, the one only blocks away but worlds apart from the rehabs and roof decks that limn the city's newly affluent quarters. Little wonder, then, that in the public square, the tragedy for the young couple came to represent far more than just another crime in a city that is full of them. In newspaper columns, blogs, radio shows, and Web sites, hundreds of angry and petrified commentators took an abiding interest in Anna and Zach's plight — interest that dwarfed any mention of the human facts behind perhaps any other recent individual homicide in the city.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:44 am

Marabelle wrote:What's sad to me is that a young man died on his way home after buying Skittles and something to drank. It's not white or black. It's someone being followed because he looked suspicious to a man who had dreams of being a police man and felt he should keep an eye on a teenager who was walking down the street. The young man didn't provoke him. He was on the phone walking home. He just felt uneasy because a "creepy" man was following him. Murder? Manslaughter? A man died on his way home after buying Skittles. If that was your brother, son, father, uncle, cousin or friend wouldn't you want the person who killed him to be punished? Who provoke who? Who followed who? One person had a gun and the other had a bag of Skittles.


It does suck. And man I wish this never happened. If I'm on the jury, do I have to ask myself what was done wrong, as far as the law? Or do I get to say even if someone did something completely legal, but they caused the situation to escalate, do I judge that?

By most accounts, there was only one truly illegal act - Martin punching Zimmerman to cause a fight. It may have been wrong, but isn't illegal for Zimmerman to have followed him. It isn't illegal to assume things based on race or look or age. And it isn't illegal to use whatever force necessary to stop someone from harming you. But if those things contributed to (and they did) the altercation that led to someone dying, is he guilty? I don't know the answer, I guess.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:52 am

No Surprize wrote:I agree, but the media isn't doing black on white, they are always only doing white on black. There is a difference, as they are making it out as though only whites victimize blacks and that it's never the other way around.

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Sushi, never said black on white, it's black vs white, but that doesn't really matter. Whats is a fact is there is more black on black crime than any crime going on period. They kill each other every day, but that isn't covered and if it is it's on a local level & just a foot note, like ho hum, what ever. From looking at this deeper, Zimmerman was in the wrong. You can be a wannabe police man with your neighborhood crime watch. You can report something suspicious. It ends there.


Ok, black vs white, typo error but you get my point like I get yours. We all pretty much know why the media never reports the black vs black as much because that fact would only reflect on what type of people they are, another thing the media won't cover. Blacks have been victimizing blacks for centuries longer then anyone else ever had. Who do you suppose traded black slaves to the whites? That's right, blacks used captured blacks from other tribes to trade to the white man for goods the white man had brought by ship to Africa. In Africa, what the black man does to their own kind makes whatever the white man did to the black man a walk in the park. Since they do this to their own kind, figure what they do to others who are not their own kind. How about Pimping? That's slavery, sexual slavery. But for whatever reason, pimping is looked at by many as something glamorous. How many blacks are pimps today? But no one really looks at that as slavery, though it consists of all the elements of slavery. Pimping is modern day slavery.

Here's a project, we all have seen the nanny cam video of the black guy fucking up the white woman in her own house with her three year old daughter present, and we've seen the recent video of the black kid kicking the white woman in the head who was just robbed and getting up in San Francisco. How about post up a video of say over the last five, ten, twenty years, etc. of a white man victimizing a black in the same manner.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:37 am

http://www.infowars.com/twitter-flooded-with-new-wave-of-riot-threats/

Seems with all the government snooping, some of these violent twitter accounts could be closed down. I'm all for the first amendment, but not when it's used to attempt to incite violence.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:17 am

Memorex wrote:http://www.infowars.com/twitter-flooded-with-new-wave-of-riot-threats/

Seems with all the government snooping, some of these violent twitter accounts could be closed down. I'm all for the first amendment, but not when it's used to attempt to incite violence.



LOL! And you know the government knows exactly how many Obamaphones are involved in it. But are they going to do anything about it besides just close down the accounts? No, of course not, they won't go to the root cause so the real issue will never go away.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Boomchild » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:37 am

Marabelle wrote:What's sad to me is that a young man died on his way home after buying Skittles and something to drank. It's not white or black. It's someone being followed because he looked suspicious to a man who had dreams of being a police man and felt he should keep an eye on a teenager who was walking down the street. The young man didn't provoke him. He was on the phone walking home. He just felt uneasy because a "creepy" man was following him. Murder? Manslaughter? A man died on his way home after buying Skittles. If that was your brother, son, father, uncle, cousin or friend wouldn't you want the person who killed him to be punished? Who provoke who? Who followed who? One person had a gun and the other had a bag of Skittles.


So Martin has no blame to the events that occurred? The normal response to someone that is following you is to get into a fight with that person? An eyewitness stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching his head. To me it's mistakes made by both people which had a tragic ending.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby ebake02 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:59 am

Does anybody else think the judge bears a resemblance to Chris Farley? :lol:
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:11 pm

ebake02 wrote:Does anybody else think the judge bears a resemblance to Chris Farley? :lol:


Awesome. Yes!
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby ebake02 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:27 pm

Memorex wrote:
ebake02 wrote:Does anybody else think the judge bears a resemblance to Chris Farley? :lol:


Awesome. Yes!


Welcome back Farley!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:43 pm

ebake02 wrote:
Memorex wrote:
ebake02 wrote:Does anybody else think the judge bears a resemblance to Chris Farley? :lol:


Awesome. Yes!


Welcome back Farley!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


You gotta find Farley as a woman. That's more of an exact match.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby ebake02 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:49 pm

:lol: :lol:

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin

Postby Memorex » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 pm

Awesome.
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Memorex
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