Who Made Steve Perry Not Feel A Part Of Journey?

[Final Frontiers]

We all know Steve Perry's immortal comment on Journey: Behind The Music. "I never felt like part of the band". But I'm curious as to who in the band made him feel welcome/unwelcome.

The Usual Suspects:

Gregg Rolie- by Steve Perry's own words, Gregg took him under his wing and was supportive of him in the beginning. Though both he and Neal wanted a screamer, a Sammy Haggar type.

Neal Schon-

Here's some of what Steve Perry had to say about his joining the band and Neal's treatment of him.

You think they would have been happier if they’d made it in that prog-rock incarnation?

I can’t speak for them. But I’m sure that if they could have been successful the way they originally set out to be, that would have been fine with them.



Do you think that dynamic was set up from the beginning? Did that tension persist throughout your tenure with the band? Do you think they wished they didn’t need a charismatic singer out front to succeed they way they did?

I don’t know. That’s a tough question. I think that’s getting a little into the area of conjecture.

But I’m wondering if you felt that way. Did you feel like you were the new guy, still, after all that?

Oh, most certainly, I was the new kid on the block with them. I was the new kid in town. There was a statement I made on a VH1 special, which I’m sure you’ve heard—that I never really felt part of the band. “All these years, it’s funny—I never really felt part of it.” What they took out, edit-wise, was that—[long pause] I gotta think about how to say this. Ask me the question again?

Okay. What did you mean when you said, on that VH1 special, that you’d never really felt like part of the band?

Okay. So—[long pause] when we did the VH1 thing, I said there was quite some time where I never really felt part of the band. And people didn’t understand what that meant. And what that meant was that there was a period of time where I always felt, from Neal, that I had to prove myself worthy of the position I was trying to occupy in the group. And not until it really took off, I think, did that question really get answered.

But along with this, you have to print that I can’t blame them. Because they’d had a certain amount of success without me, and they were wondering, once I joined, “Is this the right direction?” I could tell that. I didn’t have years of being in Santana under my belt, like Neal and Gregg. Ross Valory had played with Steve Miller and people like that, I didn’t have that. Aynsley Dunbar had played with everybody. I didn’t have that under my belt. So, yeah. I was the new kid. And I think that proving myself was something that went on for quite some time with the band members.


http://steveperryonline.net/index.php/2 ... eve-perry/

Basically Neal was acting high and mighty and lording all his vast talent, youth, and experience over Steve's head- even though they knocked out a song their first night writing together (Patiently).

Aynsley Dunbar- was for sure against Steve Perry. Part of why he was fired from the band was because he was still playing long drum solos and not towards Steve's singing.

Ross Valeroy- ??????? Has he ever been asked about this? He might've liked Robert Flesichman better since he wrote "Wheel In The Sky" and his wife Diane got a credit on Infinity for it.

Herbie Herbert- championed Steve at first. Fired Robert Flesichman because he wouldn't sign him as his agent. Did Steve ever sign him as his agent?

Remember I'm only talking about 1978-1980, the very beginning of Perry Era Journey, when things were VERY different then from Escape-Frontiers on.

How bad was it for Steve because of Neal & Co at this time? Steve tried to join Jimmy Bain, Brian Robertson from Thin Lizzy & Rainbow when they were forming Wild Horses in 1978!!!




The idea of forming a band came when Jimmy and Brian, good friends of many years' standing, shared a London flat. "The band was born in the Bermuda Triangle of Wardour Street: the Ship [pub], the Marquee Club and the St Moritz [nightclub]," Robertson remembers. "Jimmy and I got wrecked and decided to do something together:" Despite the obvious distractions of their den of inequity ("There were a fair amount of young ladies passing through the flat; up all night, every night," Robbo smiles), Bain remembers that songs "flowed out pretty easily" when the chips were down.

A critical decision was 11,tho to have as lead vocalist. Although initially opposed to letting Bain (who later contributed backing vocals to both Phil I ynott's solo albinos) step up to the mi c, Robertson reluctantly consented to giving the arrangement a try.

"Did it all work out in the end?" the guitarist muses now - No' would have to be the honest answer to that. We were so up our own arses, Steve Perry [exJourney singer] phoned us up out of the blue and wanted to join but we turned him down. I'm not kidding! Charlie Huhn [of Ted Nugent fame] also got passed over. What idiots!"

http://archive.classicrockmagazine.com/ ... razy-horse

I think the real question might be: Did Robert Flesichman, Steve Augeri, and Jeffery Scott Soto ever feel a part of Journey?

[steveo777]

Nobody but Steve Perry made him feel that way. He had total control and yet he made a statement like that.

[brywool]

Nobody but Steve Perry made him feel that way. He had total control and yet he made a statement like that.

Have to agree. Being a perfectionist is a lonely road.

[wednesday's child]

Nobody but Steve Perry made him feel that way. He had total control and yet he made a statement like that.

^Pretty much says it all.

[steveo777]

Fortunately, Stevie gets a bit of mail box money, while the band gets paychecks. Oh, them damn whores!

[FamilyMan]

For whatever reasons, Perry clearly had some insecurity issues. At some point, he ostracized himself from the rest of the band - as evidenced by the Neal comment, "The joke always was, 'where's Steve'?' He'd be gone and we'd meet the fans." Fame is strange medicine, folks. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was all about the isolation rock stars inevitably feel. In Journey's movie, Steve Perry plays Pink.

[scarab]

I blame George Tickner! That mustache gives him away.

[Frontiers65]

For whatever reasons, Perry clearly had some insecurity issues. At some point, he ostracized himself from the rest of the band - as evidenced by the Neal comment, "The joke always was, 'where's Steve'?' He'd be gone and we'd meet the fans." Fame is strange medicine, folks. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was all about the isolation rock stars inevitably feel. In Journey's movie, Steve Perry plays Pink.

I heard Perry say in an interview once, that he did not meet the fans after a show was, because he did not want to catch any germs, like a cold, that would effect his voice for the rest of the tour. He would isolate himself in his hotel room.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Does anyone really believe Perry was being sincere when he made that statement? Even when he said it on VH1, it sounded like hammy bad acting. By the time of the lineup's penultimate album (ROR), Herbie was marginalized and Perry was in the producer chair. The guy was controlling the shots, and not for the better. ROR is a low point for the band imo. Some great stuff, but also ALOT of trash.

[Aaron]

Steve Perry and no one else. He called all of the shots and wasn't part of the band? That would suggest lack of leadership skills.

[JohnH]

No way can the singer of Journey hang out and talk after the gig. Just watch that weird video of Artel acting like a robot and being forced to do it and not talking.

[Kor'n]

Nobody but Steve Perry made him feel that way. He had total control and yet he made a statement like that.

Have to agree. Being a perfectionist is a lonely road.

Disagree. Having total control of a band you did not start, but took to greater heights to the delight of the others on one hand, but on the other hand to their quiet bitterness because they could NOT deliver their way. Now, that "is a lonely road," but seemingly he made his way down that road away from those guys that constantly made him feel like an outsider. And, being a "perfectionist" is not wanting to be with your ill mother (ROR 1986) to the dismay of the band, but that is just there "being more to life than singing and touring." (SP 9/2013).

In that same 2008 GQ interview that is being quoted from, I believe Steve Perry said something like "when you win the Superbowl, you stop and enjoy don't keep going" (Guess unlike DSB that "goes on and on).......

In Rolling Stone's articles (2013) about Steve Perry and the band, it often states "he wanted time off and quickly lost interest in the band," so to answer the question - the band.... Guess it just was not to be going "on and on" with him, as they had been doing.

How often does the band tour........

[Kor'n]

Steve Perry and no one else. He called all of the shots and wasn't part of the band? That would suggest lack of leadership skills.

Do you mean "lack of leadership skills" like those CEOs that do not necessarily fraternize with the common folks, but still manage to run the company.

That want to be "jam band" made his life unhappy, but they were so kind to Steve A, who obeyed their every "lipping" demand, weren' they......

[Kor'n]

Does anyone really believe Perry was being sincere when he made that statement? Even when he said it on VH1, it sounded like hammy bad acting. By the time of the lineup's penultimate album (ROR), Herbie was marginalized and Perry was in the producer chair. The guy was controlling the shots, and not for the better. ROR is a low point for the band imo. Some great stuff, but also ALOT of trash.

Why not believe, for they said it themselves on VH1 that they wanted a "Sammy Hagar screamer." They were bitter that they could NOT be that "jam band" with Schon's "unending solos." He was "controlling the shots" better than that self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalist" called Herbie that they had no problem dismissing (after reviewing the books, huh...) That Herbie, you often applaud, was with the band pre-Perry from 1973-1978, and was on his way OUT with them if they did not deliver to Sony's satisfaction. Nothing "hammy bad acting" about the obvious.

Seems like with "Eclipse" the band returned to their pre-Steve Perry sales and post-Steve Perry fumbling around with no where to go, so would think now they would love to have a 2 million plus "low point" like ROR.

[Kor'n]

For whatever reasons, Perry clearly had some insecurity issues. At some point, he ostracized himself from the rest of the band - as evidenced by the Neal comment, "The joke always was, 'where's Steve'?' He'd be gone and we'd meet the fans." Fame is strange medicine, folks. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was all about the isolation rock stars inevitably feel. In Journey's movie, Steve Perry plays Pink.

I heard Perry say in an interview once, that he did not meet the fans after a show was, because he did not want to catch any germs, like a cold, that would effect his voice for the rest of the tour. He would isolate himself in his hotel room.

Yep, "When you open your mouth and it's okay, say gonna be a good night, but don't know if you've used up too much for the next night and the tickets already been sold." Guess that is part of being a "perfectionist' and not wanting to short-change or disappoint the fans "want to be what they want me to be." SP/GQ 2008 Sadly, all or nothing....

Guess he would never take the "lipping route" as did Steve Augeri or "having fans sitting on their hands with solos.... (2012) because Pineda is sick and they're trying to "suck every nickel" from fans till forced to postpone the shows.

"They were great before, he's kinda Perry soundalike, but this is how lineup should have been first Journey, Loverboy and Pat Benatar. I'll never be seeing them again unless Perry ever returns, meaning I'll never see them again." (2012)

Something to that effect.... Guess it can be a "lonely [isolating] road" when your wanting to give your very best and your band wanting you on that stage at any cost...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Why not believe, for they said it themselves on VH1 that they wanted a "Sammy Hagar screamer." They were bitter that they could NOT be that "jam band" with Schon's "unending solos."

Yawn. This is so tiring. From Infinity thru TBF, Perry became increasingly involved in everything from songwriting to production to artwork. Does that sound like someone who is "not a part "of something? If he was not part of Journey, why are his fingers all over the liner notes? And this creative brotherhood between Perry and Schon and later Cain worked reasonably well up until ROR. TBF proved they could still craft a hit single, but Perry obviously can't keep his OCD demons at bay.

He was "controlling the shots" better than that self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalist" called Herbie that they had no problem dismissing (after reviewing the books, huh...)

Do you mean to imply that the band waited until 1996, a 12 year hiatus, before having an accountant take a full audit of their records? Why are you not man enough to state your conjecture that Herbie was a crook (a theory peddled by many Perry die-hard cultists). Just say it. If I have no problem saying that Perry's hip injury was totally fabricated, why are you too much of a sniveling little shit to spell out your own bizzaro theories? Man up, you little bedpost chewing whore.

That Herbie, you often applaud, was with the band pre-Perry from 1973-1978, and was on his way OUT with them if they did not deliver to Sony's satisfaction.

Lol. As if the band, traveling around un-showered in a winnebago and a fleet of station wagons was really in any position of power to tell Herbie to go fuck off. If Herbie went, the whole band went.

Seems like with "Eclipse" the band returned to their pre-Steve Perry sales and post-Steve Perry fumbling around with no where to go, so would think now they would love to have a 2 million plus "low point" like ROR.

Debuting at #17 is quite the achievement for a band that is four decades old and on their fourth lead singer. More than that, it's one of their best albums in years. I certainly don't resent your excitement over Perry's hotly anticipated electronica gay club banger release in 2065. Why can't you pay Journey fans the same respect? I think you need to get a hobby, or maybe have a run-in with a serious tragedy. You need some life perspective. To start with, come to grips with the fact that, alot like Jesus, Perry doesn't love you. Most important of all, Perry's out living his life. You should go try to live yours. Before it's too late.

[wednesday's child]

Perry's hotly anticipated electronica gay club banger release in 2065.

[DeeJay Jones]

perspective

And you Noble Cause should be ashamed of yourself for that last comment!

[Kor'n]

Why not believe, for they said it themselves on VH1 that they wanted a "Sammy Hagar screamer." They were bitter that they could NOT be that "jam band" with Schon's "unending solos."

Yawn. This is so tiring. From Infinity thru TBF, Perry became increasingly involved in everything from songwriting to production to artwork. Does that sound like someone who is "not a part "of something? If he was not part of Journey, why are his fingers all over the liner notes? And this creative brotherhood between Perry and Schon and later Cain worked reasonably well up until ROR. TBF proved they could still craft a hit single, but Perry obviously can't keep his OCD demons at bay.

"Yawn. This is so tiring." "From Infinity thru TBF, Perry became increasingly involved in everything from songwriting to the production to artwork." I believe his words were "he never felt like a part of the band" not a part of the music. Kinda like that CEO running the company, but not really associating with the common folks.

He was "controlling the shots" better than that self-proclaimed "unabashed capitalist" called Herbie that they had no problem dismissing (after reviewing the books, huh...)

Do you mean to imply that the band waited until 1996, a 12 year hiatus, before having an accountant take a full audit of their records? Why are you not man enough to state your conjecture that Herbie was a crook (a theory peddled by many Perry die-hard cultists). Just say it. If I have no problem saying that Perry's hip injury was totally fabricated, why are you too much of a sniveling little shit to spell out your own bizzaro theories? Man up, you little bedpost chewing whore.

Oh boy, you and your pathetic rantings. Like I said, guess they reviewed the books then kicked out that crook. Is that better. If "Perry's hip injuring was totally fabricated" guess he is limping (not lipping) to it today.

Why did Herbie leave Santana...

Kinda like Greg's leaving, huh...

"Handwriting on the wall."

That Herbie, you often applaud, was with the band pre-Perry from 1973-1978, and was on his way OUT with them if they did not deliver to Sony's satisfaction.

Lol. As if the band, traveling around un-showered in a winnebago and a fleet of station wagons was really in any position of power to tell Herbie to go fuck off. If Herbie went, the whole band went.

Herbie did "went."

"Herbie you got to let us go." Cain

Like I said guess it was easy to find someone to orchestrate loading equipment on tour buses or big wheelers.

Seems like with "Eclipse" the band returned to their pre-Steve Perry sales and post-Steve Perry fumbling around with no where to go, so would think now they would love to have a 2 million plus "low point" like ROR.

Debuting at #17 is quite the achievement for a band that is four decades old and on their fourth lead singer. More than that, it's one of their best albums in years. I certainly don't resent your excitement over Perry's hotly anticipated electronica gay club banger release in 2065. Why can't you pay Journey fans the same respect? I think you need to get a hobby, or maybe have a run-in with a serious tragedy. You need some life perspective. To start with, come to grips with the fact that, alot like Jesus, Perry doesn't love you. Most important of all, Perry's out living his life. You should go try to live yours. Before it's too late.

Oh boy, you and your pathetic rantings. Debuting at #13 (21k wow!) not #17 does not mean much if the sales and the album are crap, and if you are a Perryless Journey. A karaoke needs to do much much better, always. Don't forget to come again with your pathetic rantings and sayings, if it makes you feel better... Guess I hit a nerve...

"You need some life perspective."

Is this a board or what.... "You need some life perspective." !!!

[The_Noble_Cause]

I believe his words were "he never felt like a part of the band" not a part of the music.

And just who exactly do you think wrote the music? The members of Menudo? Right Said Fred? The Fred Schneider Sprechgesang All Male Revue? Holy christ, are you the mother of all flaming ass dunces.

Like I said, guess they reviewed the books then kicked out that crook. Is that better.

That's funny, considering that the band asked him back after Perry left. Tell me, if Herbie was such a Nixonian crook why did they fly him out to get his personal approval on Jeff Soto? You want to know which member DID cause an incalculable loss to both the band and Sony? Here's a clue - which certain beak nosed recluse cancelled two major tours (and a solo tour), as well as reneged on an advance to tour in support of a major reunion album? Don't think too hard.

Like I said guess it was easy to find someone to orchestrate loading equipment on tour buses or big wheelers.

Uh huh. If you think that was the entirety of Herbie's job description, then Perry's only responsibility was picking up his tuxedo at the laundromat in time for curtain call ,and making sure the right amount of starch was used to get out those pesky cat cum stains.

Oh boy, you and your pathetic rantings. Debuting at #13 (21k wow!) not #17 does not mean much if the sales and the album are crap, and if you are a Perryless Journey. A karaoke needs to do much much better, always.

And what other band without their most prominent lead singer is cracking the top 20 these days? Once again, try not to think too hard. I'd hate for you to hurt yourself, and then the world would be down one less adult movie theater usher. Fuck you and your worthless jizz mopping life.

[Kor'n]

I believe his words were "he never felt like a part of the band" not a part of the music.

And just who exactly do you think wrote the music? The members of Menudo? Right Said Fred? The Fred Schneider Sprechgesang All Male Revue? Holy christ, are you the mother of all flaming ass dunces.

He helped write the music, but no part in writing the band's bitterness because the "jam sessions" did not work.

Like I said, guess they reviewed the books then kicked out that crook. Is that better.

That's funny, considering that the band asked him back after Perry left. Tell me, if Herbie was such a Nixonian crook why did they fly him out to get his personal approval on Jeff Soto? You want to know which member DID cause an incalculable loss to both the band and Sony? Here's a clue - which certain beak nosed recluse cancelled two major tours (and a solo tour), as well as reneged on an advance to tour in support of a major reunion album? Don't think too hard.

Sure they did, for that's why he is with the band today. Oh wait, he is not. And they flew me "out to get [my] approval on Jeff Soto" who is not in the band. Too bad that "beak nosed recluse" did not start cancelling sooner. "There is more to life than singing and touring" SP 9/2013

Glad he did not succumb to "lipping" (2005?) or having fans "sitting on their hands with unending solos, etc." (2012) because singer could not deliver for whatever reason.

Like I said guess it was easy to find someone to orchestrate loading equipment on tour buses or big wheelers.

Uh huh. If you think that was the entirety of Herbie's job description, then Perry's only responsibility was picking up his tuxedo at the laundromat in time for curtain call ,and making sure the right amount of starch was used to get out those pesky cat cum stains.

"Herbie you got to let us go." Cain

Sounds like a frantic cry for him to leave them alone.

From 1973 - 1978 they went flop with Herbie and from 1978 - 1986 and 1996 nothing but platinum with Steve Perry that they have not known since. And don't mention the karaoke Revelation that SP is all over, but not on the flop "Eclipse."

Oh boy, you and your pathetic rantings. Debuting at #13 (21k wow!) not #17 does not mean much if the sales and the album are crap, and if you are a Perryless Journey. A karaoke needs to do much much better, always.

And what other band without their most prominent lead singer is cracking the top 20 these days? Once again, try not to think too hard. I'd hate for you to hurt yourself, and then the world would be down one less adult movie theater usher. Fuck you and your worthless jizz mopping life.

The karaoke Journey was the one claiming to be the "The New Journey" and with that title they should be creating and singing something new not stalled as the nostalgia Steve Perry karaoke band that they are. If you try to wipe out your past and "most prominent lead singer" and creator, you need to replace it with something new.

"What other [karaoke] band" got to be on CBS, Oprah, Today Show and had a "DSB" done by Glee to propel them in the spotlight so hugely.... As Don would say "2008 won't come again." Something to that effect. They could not really capitalize on all of that publicity, since they are not the real thing. Sony would have been pushing the real thing like a baby in stroller, instead of staying clear of this supposed "new" version that still is not able to deliver without Steve Perry.

Don't forget to come back with your name calling rantings....."The agony of defeat."

You are slow, but just might get the message that it does NOTfaze me a bit!

[slucero]

Journey was one of the 1st bands to incorporate and create subsidiary companies. Renting their trucking, scheduling, touring sound and lighting when they weren't using it.. To be totally honest, without Herbie, Perry doesn't join Journey, since it was Herbie who forced Perry on the band.

Perry enjoyed subsequent success as a result. It is Perry (and his cats) who have Herbie to thank for his success, his millions and his retirement.

Bottom line - Herbie's financial acumen made them rich.


Including Perry.

[Kor'n]

Journey was one of the 1st bands to incorporate, and rent their touring sound and lighting when they weren't using it..

Herbie's financial acumen made them rich. Including Perry.

Guess he made himself pretty "rich" too, huh.... Seems a parting with Santana, and Journey there was a parting with him after his "financial acumen [supposedly] made them rich." Too bad Perry's pipes could not benefit from his "acumen."

"Herbie you got to let us go." Cain

Just no way to treat the person with such "financial acumen" for they treated him like he was just the person to "orchestrate loading equipment on tour buses and big wheelers."

[Kor'n]

Journey was one of the 1st bands to incorporate and create subsidiary companies. Renting their trucking, scheduling, touring sound and lighting when they weren't using it.. To be totally honest, without Herbie, Perry doesn't join Journey, since it was Herbie who forced Perry on the band.

Herbie did what was necessary to stay afloat, as he would have been kicked out just like the band that could NOT deliver the big one. If you recall the VH1 he had been knowing of Perry for a while, no love to bring him on board till must set in and SP's demo being sent to him by someone at Sony....

Perry enjoyed subsequent success as a result. It is Perry (and his cats) who have Herbie to thank for his success, his millions and his retirement.

Is Perry thanking him for the lost his pipes may have suffered..... "Seems he would not let up booking." ( SP 2012) Herbie should thank Steve Perry for "his success, his millions, and his retirement" for he surely was not doing crap before SP came on board.

Bottom line - Herbie's financial acumen made them rich.

Including Perry.

"Bottom line"

"Herbie you got to let us go" Cain

[slucero]

Perry wouldn't have BEEN in Journey if it wasnt' for Herbie.. Everything else happened as a consequence of that.


As much as we all know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact.

[Kor'n]

Perry wouldn't have BEEN in Journey if it wasnt' for Herbie.. Everything else happened as a consequence of that.


As much as we all know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact.

Steve Perry would NOT have been in Journey if Sony had NOT sent over his demos to Herbie. Like Herbie said he had been hearing about SP "in and out." Something to that effect, so what is your point... You speak as though Herbie wanted to do him a favor. Herbie was just trying to "save his own skin." He would have been kicked out along with the band.

"As much as [I] 'know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact."

[The_Noble_Cause]

Herbie was just trying to "save his own skin." He would have been kicked out along with the band.

Kicked out by who? Journey may have been dropped by the record label. Nobody in the band was in any position to fire Herbie. Another idiotic statement.

[slucero]

Perry wouldn't have BEEN in Journey if it wasnt' for Herbie.. Everything else happened as a consequence of that.


As much as we all know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact.

Steve Perry would NOT have been in Journey if Sony had NOT sent over his demos to Herbie. Like Herbie said he had been hearing about SP "in and out." Something to that effect, so what is your point... You speak as though Herbie wanted to do him a favor. Herbie was just trying to "save his own skin." He would have been kicked out along with the band.

"As much as [i] 'know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact."

It's pretty clear that Herbie was trying to save all their skins.

..and LMFAO... kicked out by whom?

Journey was incorporated... and since Herbie was manager and 1/6th owner.. the only way Herbie could have been "kicked out" was for the Board of Journey (the band plus Herbie) to vote to fire him as manager... (nice that you forgot it was Perry who engineered Herbie's "departure")

Herbie would STILL have been an owner. He'd have to AGREE to his share being bought out...


They were all in it together... and in Herbie's role as their manager he made the business decisions.. the band made the music.

The direction the label wanted was a band with a front man... they tried Fleischman, then Perry...

[Monker]

Perry wouldn't have BEEN in Journey if it wasnt' for Herbie.. Everything else happened as a consequence of that.


As much as we all know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact.

Steve Perry would NOT have been in Journey if Sony had NOT sent over his demos to Herbie. Like Herbie said he had been hearing about SP "in and out." Something to that effect, so what is your point... You speak as though Herbie wanted to do him a favor. Herbie was just trying to "save his own skin." He would have been kicked out along with the band.

"As much as [i] 'know you hate it.. even your endless revisionist comments can't change that one simple fact."

It's pretty clear that Herbie was trying to save all their skins.

..and LMFAO... kicked out by whom?

Journey was incorporated... and since Herbie was manager and 1/6th owner.. the only way Herbie could have been "kicked out" was for the Board of Journey (the band plus Herbie) to vote to fire him as manager... (nice that you forgot it was Perry who engineered Herbie's "departure")

Herbie would STILL have been an owner. He'd have to AGREE to his share being bought out...


They were all in it together... and in Herbie's role as their manager he made the business decisions.. the band made the music.

The direction the label wanted was a band with a front man... they tried Fleischman, then Perry...

EXACTLY....this Jonathan quote is being taken completely out of context. Again, for the billionth time, Journey was set to continue on without Perry and with Gregg and Kevin Chalfant in the band. They had a band meeting on one of the canceled FTLOSM tour dates to decide the bands future...what the lineup was going to be. Essentially, Journey was together, writing and making a new future. Perry was out recording and touring solo....until Sony starts throwing "reunion" money into the mix and wanting Perry back. STEVE PERRY demanded the firing of Herbie, Gregg Rolie, and of Chalfant.

So, from the band meeting, they took the reunion money and brought Perry back...and the casualties of that were Herbie, Rolie, and Chalfant. Herbie's reaction (in the Castle's Burning interview) was to warn Neal that there would never be a tour. He KNEW Perry's voice was gone. If failed during the ROR tour. It failed again during the FTLOSM tour...and it sounded like shit during the Bill Graham tribute. So, STEVE PERRY completely screwed the band, Herbie, and Sony, too. And, left the band in the situation of starting completely over with replacing him...but this time without Herbie, and Gregg and Chalfant being alienated.

Even if you don't believe Herbie and what he says about Perry having NO intention of touring...Perry is still an asshole for demanding the firing of Journey's life long manager, and a founding member. That is just a fact.

IMO (OPNION), the entire scenario above is the start of the trend of Neal and the band caring more about the $'s then about the camaraderie of the band itself. There is something to be said about a true band of brothers who WANT to work together, instead of a band smashed together by the label to try to replicate the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" success...which is what they tried to do. Journey could have had a bright future with Herbie, Gregg, and Chalfant...but they traded that slow and steady future for a one off check and then uncertainty. And, they did it again with the Wal-Mart deal and 'legacy sound' crap that Neal was never into...and then turning their back on that with Eclipse. But, all of the money grabbing greed started with the TBF reunion that didn't have to happen.

So, "you have to let us go." Yeah, Herbie had to let them go...because the band and Sony wanted a reunion paycheck, and Steve Perry DEMANDED that Herbie leave or he wouldn't join. And, Herbie's response to that was, "it was the last act of love that I could give to them." So, the reality is, Herbie is the only one of this crazy crowd, Perry, the rest of the band, Sony, Kalodner, etc who was NOT acting like a greedy and demanding asshole. Well, OK, Gregg and Chalfant too...but they didn't have much choice.

Herbie is smart..and experienced. IMO, he KNEW this was a no win situation. He could have fought it, refused to leave, tried to get the lineup he wanted. But, to what end? A pissed off label that wouldn't support the album? A pissed off band that felt they missed out on their big paycheck? The winning move was to not play the damn game any longer, walk away and tell them all they are a bunch of fucking whining idiots who deserve the crazy dysfunctional future they were about to enter. He didn't need to do it any longer either.

[Marabelle]

Sometimes the old verbiage is true, you can bite off more than you can chew. You can want all you can want; doesn't mean that you can handle everything that comes along with your prize. They say, you can give a man an idea and aspirations ; but no one should ever expect him to build an entire city.