What If Journey Was Inducted Into RRHOF But........

[Final Frontiers]

KISS isn't playing at the Rock 'N Roll Hall Of Fame Induction Concert because ALL of their members aren't being allowed in.


A day after former guitarist Ace Frehley revealed that the original lineup of Kiss would not be performing together at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony in April, it has been announced that there won’t be any version of the group playing at the event.

“To bring this to a quick end, we have decided not to play in any line-up and we will focus our attention on celebrating our induction into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame,” the band announced on their official website. According to the statement, the group were willing to perform alongside founding members Frehley and Peter Criss, but wanted other veterans of the group — such as current lead guitarist Tommy Thayer, current drummer Eric Singer, and former members Bruce Kulick and the late Eric Carr — to be involved and / or inducted as well.

Stanley recently revealed to Classic Rock magazine that the Hall of Fame refused to let anybody but the four original members be inducted. “It was shut down immediately as ‘a non starter,’ which to me is arrogant.”

Updates: Criss has also weighed in on recent events, declaring, “This is disgraceful.” Metal guitarist Chris Impellitteri offered his two cents as well, stating that the band should get their ‘heads and egos out of your a—!” in an open letter.


Read More: Kiss Won't Perform 'In Any Line-Up' At Hall of Fame Induction | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/kiss-hal ... ck=tsmclip

Since a lot of people here hold RNRHOF in such high esteem, what would you think if Journey got in but did the same thing? How would you feel if Steve Perry, Gregg Rolie, Neal Schon, Ross Valeroy, Jonathan Cain, and Steve Smith ONLY got to join that exclusive club? Would you care if Aynsley Dunbar, George Tickner, Prairie Prince, Robert Flesichman, Deen Castronovo, Steve Augeri, Jeffery Scott Soto, Randy Jackson, and Arnel Pineda were shut out (I don't think any of them qualify on their own or in other groups). Would you be all "Who Cares?" and they didn't contribute to the hit songs or they were all in the band some for many years and played on/wrote/sang some hit songs- thats not fair?

I'm sure the RNRHOF is probably seething that they voted in KISS in hopes of selling lots of tickets to the concert only for KISS to give them the proverbial finger and say they're not performing.

[scarab]

This is why bands like Styx, Journey, and Foreigner will never "perform" at the ROR HOF even if they get in.
For Journey alone there would be like 25 guys on stage.
Anyway, ROR HOF is a joke, when they let poop (oops i meant pop) stars in and rappers.

[FamilyMan]

With all due respect to Randy, Deen, Augeri, JSS and Arnel -- all of whom I have great respect for -- they should not share in any Journey RRHOF honor. Induction should be about the merits of the band's contributions to the history and legacy of the genre of rock. Greg should definitely be in,as many of the classic Journey hits are on his watch. Same with Aynsley. This is just my opinion, but only the classic lineups are HOF worthy.

So if I'm voting, it's
Steve Perry
Neal Schon
Gregg Rolie
Ross Valory
Steve Smith
Aynsley Dunbar
Jonathan Cain

[Monker]

Randy Jackson and Michael Baird were never "members" of the band. Therefore, Randy should not even be considered.

I would say the Infinity through Frontiers members would be inducted...

...But, it will never happen anyway.

[Journey/Survivor]

With all due respect to Randy, Deen, Augeri, JSS and Arnel -- all of whom I have great respect for -- they should not share in any Journey RRHOF honor. Induction should be about the merits of the band's contributions to the history and legacy of the genre of rock. Greg should definitely be in,as many of the classic Journey hits are on his watch. Same with Aynsley. This is just my opinion, but only the classic lineups are HOF worthy.

So if I'm voting, it's
Steve Perry
Neal Schon
Gregg Rolie
Ross Valory
Steve Smith
Aynsley Dunbar
Jonathan Cain

Those are the 7 members that I always think of first when thinking about Journey.

Although, Castronovo, Augeri and Pineda have been vitally important to the band as well.

[Andrew]

Since a lot of people here hold RNRHOF in such high esteem

No one hold that shambolic joke of an institution in high esteem.

[ebake02]

When it comes to KISS, Eric Carr is the only one outside of the original four that deserves to be included.

[DracIsBack]

Since a lot of people here hold RNRHOF in such high esteem

No one hold that shambolic joke of an institution in high esteem.

It's run by the dude who founded Rolling Stone and he hates "corporate rock" type bands. That's why you'll never see bands like Journey or Chicago in, even though both deserve it and are long eligible.

[Eric]

With all due respect to Randy, Deen, Augeri, JSS and Arnel -- all of whom I have great respect for -- they should not share in any Journey RRHOF honor. Induction should be about the merits of the band's contributions to the history and legacy of the genre of rock. Greg should definitely be in,as many of the classic Journey hits are on his watch. Same with Aynsley. This is just my opinion, but only the classic lineups are HOF worthy.

So if I'm voting, it's
Steve Perry
Neal Schon
Gregg Rolie
Ross Valory
Steve Smith
Aynsley Dunbar
Jonathan Cain

Deen-O over Dunbar. Otherwise I agree.

[scarab]

actually anyone past Cain should not be there.
They did nothing for the "legacy". They just kept it going.

[The_Noble_Cause]

actually anyone past Cain should not be there.
They did nothing for the "legacy". They just kept it going.

Mostly true, but in this day and age, with radio and TV being hostile to classic rock, "keeping it going" is still noteworthy. Plus Revelation did have some minor radio play. In the public consciousness, Journey is most known for the Escape era. But that doesn't mean that the Rolie-era guys shouldn't get some HOF love too.

[Final Frontiers]

Since a lot of people here hold RNRHOF in such high esteem

No one hold that shambolic joke of an institution in high esteem.

"No one here holds the RRHOF in high esteem"???? Then how come this forum can't go 2 pages without somebody bringing it up going back 245 pages? Melodic Rock's Forums has as much of a love/hate relationship with Rolling Stone/RRHOF as Rolling Stone has with Journey/Bon Jovi/corporate rock .

actually anyone past Cain should not be there.
They did nothing for the "legacy". They just kept it going.

Mostly true, but in this day and age, with radio and TV being hostile to classic rock, "keeping it going" is still noteworthy. Plus Revelation did have some minor radio play. In the public consciousness, Journey is most known for the Escape era. But that doesn't mean that the Rolie-era guys shouldn't get some HOF love too.

I wouldn't say that TV is hostile to classic rock VH1 Classic shows concerts (I taped Journey: Live In Manilla, Bon Jovi, Foreigner etc), That Metal Show, and Behind The Music. No, that's not the VH1 that gets the most attention, but at least thats major channel support. VH1 should be showing "Live From Daryl's House" and not FAMNET/RFTV.

Randy Jackson and Michael Baird were never "members" of the band. Therefore, Randy should not even be considered.

I would say the Infinity through Frontiers members would be inducted...

...But, it will never happen anyway.

Randy Jackson played on Raised On Radio and it's tour and some gigs after that. Robert Fleischman wrote "Wheel In The Sky" and "Anytime". Jeffery Scott Soto doesn't have a chance in heck. And neither does Deen or Arnel . Honestly, I don't know why RJ wasn't at the Hollywood Walk Of Fame, he must've been busy with American Idol.

[Monker]

Randy Jackson and Michael Baird were never "members" of the band. Therefore, Randy should not even be considered.

I would say the Infinity through Frontiers members would be inducted...

...But, it will never happen anyway.

Randy Jackson played on Raised On Radio and it's tour and some gigs after that. Robert Fleischman wrote "Wheel In The Sky" and "Anytime". Jeffery Scott Soto doesn't have a chance in heck. And neither does Deen or Arnel . Honestly, I don't know why RJ wasn't at the Hollywood Walk Of Fame, he must've been busy with American Idol.

I know all of that.

Still, Randy Jackson was never a member of Journey. Therefore, he should be ineligible. Playing with the band and being a member are not the same thing. Everybody else you listed was at least an official member of the band...even Fleischman was a member for a short time. But, Randy wasn't, and that is just a fact.

[Final Frontiers]

If Randy Jackson doesn't "count" as a member of Journey even though he was "in" Journey. Why should JSS or Robert Fleischman get more consideration? There is NO official merchandise with JSS on it like CDs (was there a concert tour book when he was in the band?). Robert Fleischman only has "For You" on "Time3" and writing credits (does he have a Journey tour book?).

I really don't want to drag Chalfant into another Journey discussion. But some folks argue his being a member of Journey- while he promotes himself "as Steve Perry's replacement for a time" . Of course the only way Chalfant will ever get into the RRHOF is if he bums a ticket off Ross Valeroy or chauffuers Gregg Rolie .

I guess RJ, JSS, RF, George Tickner, and Praire Prince are "Phantom" members of Journey- they count, but they don't really count. Yes, George Tickner and Praire Prince were on the first couple of Journey albums- but not even the RRHOF would go "Only the original first 4 members of Journey are going to be inducted- we like to call it the "KISS Rule"."

Randy Jackson and Michael Baird were never "members" of the band. Therefore, Randy should not even be considered.

I would say the Infinity through Frontiers members would be inducted...

...But, it will never happen anyway.

Randy Jackson played on Raised On Radio and it's tour and some gigs after that. Robert Fleischman wrote "Wheel In The Sky" and "Anytime". Jeffery Scott Soto doesn't have a chance in heck. And neither does Deen or Arnel . Honestly, I don't know why RJ wasn't at the Hollywood Walk Of Fame, he must've been busy with American Idol.

I know all of that.

Still, Randy Jackson was never a member of Journey. Therefore, he should be ineligible. Playing with the band and being a member are not the same thing. Everybody else you listed was at least an official member of the band...even Fleischman was a member for a short time. But, Randy wasn't, and that is just a fact.

[Monker]

If you want to count Randy as a member of Journey, fine.

But, the band itself never did. Look at the promo of the ROR concerts, "Journey with Randy Jackson and Michael Baird". They were absolutely never official members of the band. They may have played with the band, recorded with the band, etc...but they were not members of Journey. They were studio and touring musicians.

There was even an interview with Neal after the Bill Graham tribute where he says "that may have been the last incarnation of the band, the three of us, but I didn't want it billed as Journey (at the Bill Graham concert)." When I think about it, I believe it was in a Force newsletter.

The ROR version of Journey was Perry, Schon, Cain, and studio/touring musicians.

Kevin Chalfant was never a member of Journey, as far as I know.
JSS was a member of Journey.
Robert Fleischman was a member of Journey...yes, he wrote with the band, and also did some shows pre-Infinity.
Prairie Prince was a member of Journey.
George Tickner was a member of Journey

With the exception of Chalfant, all of the above have more claim to the RRHOF than Randy Jackson. And, no, i don't believe any of the above would be inducted.

Frankly, I don't believe ANY version of Journey will be inducted. The only member of Journey who will ever be in the RRHOF is Gregg Rolie for his role in Santana, iMO...and it's well deserved.

And, there are different 'rules' for different band situations. However, i doubt they would ever induct somebody who was never a member of the band.

[quote="Final Frontiers"]If Randy Jackson doesn't "count" as a member of Journey even though he was "in" Journey. Why should JSS or Robert Fleischman get more consideration? There is NO official merchandise with JSS on it like CDs (was there a concert tour book when he was in the band?). Robert Fleischman only has "For You" on "Time3" and writing credits (does he have a Journey tour book?).

I really don't want to drag Chalfant into another Journey discussion. But some folks argue his being a member of Journey- while he promotes himself "as Steve Perry's replacement for a time" . Of course the only way Chalfant will ever get into the RRHOF is if he bums a ticket off Ross Valeroy or chauffuers Gregg Rolie .

I guess RJ, JSS, RF, George Tickner, and Praire Prince are "Phantom" members of Journey- they count, but they don't really count. Yes, George Tickner and Praire Prince were on the first couple of Journey albums- but not even the RRHOF would go "Only the original first 4 members of Journey are going to be inducted- we like to call it the "KISS Rule"."
/quote]

[jrny84]

So if I'm voting, it's
Steve Perry
Neal Schon
Gregg Rolie
Ross Valory
Steve Smith
Aynsley Dunbar
Jonathan Cain

If Journey were to be inducted, this list would be what I could picture. You could make several arguments for many others, but that classic lineup is what defines Journey's true legacy to me. I do appreciate members like Castronovo and Pineda that have helped to keep their legacy going and relevant in today's culture.

[steveo777]

If Journey gets in Fleischman goes too, IMO, as does Dunbar and Prince. They are original founders. RF got invited to the Hollywood walk of fame too, and was there.

[scarab]

Fleischman should be there, he is part of the legacy, Tickner and Prince, no.
If Perry wont perform, and I highly doubt he would, Fleischman should sing.

[Marabelle]

I can not believe that after everything he and the band went through that Mister Perry would not perform!!!!! I have to think about this for a bit; the thought leaves me reeling. It just doesn't seem right. He's tied to that band forever. What hogwash!

[Final Frontiers]

It's not necessairly about who gets inducted: it'll obviously be Steve Perry, Neal Schon, Ross Valeroy, Gregg Rolie, Jonathan Cain, and Steve Smith . It's about who will be allowed to perform on stage. Journey, being the guys they are- will want to invite ALL their past/present/future members- just like at the Hollywood Walk Of Fame. The RRHOF will NOT allow the non-inductees to perform. Considering the bad blood between both organizations- it's possible that Neal & Co will tell them to take their RRHOF and shove it. Gregg Rolie almost didn't even attend for Santana. The RRHOF want a show with mostly Steve Perry singing and so will VH1/HBO or whoever'll have the contract to air it.

As for who has more of a "claim to Journey fame"- more people know that Randy Jackson was in Journey and worked with "The Golden Voice" Steve Perry (American Idol viewers) than know that Kevin Chalfant, Jeff Scott Soto, and Steve Augeri exist . Sad, but true. Randy Jackson is very nearly the 8th. Journeyman (after Arnel).

Additional Questions: Would you just want to see "Escape Era" Journey perform at this hypothetical concert? Or would you want to see EVERYBODY get a chance to throw down like the boot less and video less House Of Blues/Hollywood Walk Of Fame show?

If you want to count Randy as a member of Journey, fine.

But, the band itself never did. Look at the promo of the ROR concerts, "Journey with Randy Jackson and Michael Baird". They were absolutely never official members of the band. They may have played with the band, recorded with the band, etc...but they were not members of Journey. They were studio and touring musicians.

There was even an interview with Neal after the Bill Graham tribute where he says "that may have been the last incarnation of the band, the three of us, but I didn't want it billed as Journey (at the Bill Graham concert)." When I think about it, I believe it was in a Force newsletter.

The ROR version of Journey was Perry, Schon, Cain, and studio/touring musicians.

Kevin Chalfant was never a member of Journey, as far as I know.
JSS was a member of Journey.
Robert Fleischman was a member of Journey...yes, he wrote with the band, and also did some shows pre-Infinity.
Prairie Prince was a member of Journey.
George Tickner was a member of Journey

With the exception of Chalfant, all of the above have more claim to the RRHOF than Randy Jackson. And, no, i don't believe any of the above would be inducted.

Frankly, I don't believe ANY version of Journey will be inducted. The only member of Journey who will ever be in the RRHOF is Gregg Rolie for his role in Santana, iMO...and it's well deserved.

And, there are different 'rules' for different band situations. However, i doubt they would ever induct somebody who was never a member of the band.

If Randy Jackson doesn't "count" as a member of Journey even though he was "in" Journey. Why should JSS or Robert Fleischman get more consideration? There is NO official merchandise with JSS on it like CDs (was there a concert tour book when he was in the band?). Robert Fleischman only has "For You" on "Time3" and writing credits (does he have a Journey tour book?).

I really don't want to drag Chalfant into another Journey discussion. But some folks argue his being a member of Journey- while he promotes himself "as Steve Perry's replacement for a time" . Of course the only way Chalfant will ever get into the RRHOF is if he bums a ticket off Ross Valeroy or chauffuers Gregg Rolie .

I guess RJ, JSS, RF, George Tickner, and Praire Prince are "Phantom" members of Journey- they count, but they don't really count. Yes, George Tickner and Praire Prince were on the first couple of Journey albums- but not even the RRHOF would go "Only the original first 4 members of Journey are going to be inducted- we like to call it the "KISS Rule"."
/quote]

[slucero]

Jan Wenner has to die 1st..

[cinkidd]

Since a lot of people here hold RNRHOF in such high esteem

No one hold that shambolic joke of an institution in high esteem.

I agree, but what the hell Andrew why not start a MRHOF?

Rich the Hell Guy

[Final Frontiers]

Here's an update about the KISS/RRHOF saga. Apparently, Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons are complete dicks.

Kiss frontman Paul Stanley has insisted he and Gene Simmons were never going to allow Ace Frehley and Peter Criss to take part in their cancelled Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction performance.

And he adds that while they’re still welcome to attend the ceremony in April, there’s no chance they’ll be allowed to wear the make-up that made them famous.

Stanley and Simmons last week stated that no line-up of the band would play, following previous comments which had offered fans some hope the four original members would take the stage together.

The frontman’s latest comments come after the partner of Bill Aucoin, the manager who helped make the band’s name, called for them to stop their “nonsense” and find a compromise.

Stanley tells the LA Times: “Imagine getting on stage and playing with a line-up that does not exist.” He compares the situation to being forced to reunite with a former spouse.

He adds that he’d still be happy for Frehley and Criss to take part in the actual induction – but he’ll accept no argument that current members Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer should not be there too. “The naysayers talk about Tommy or Eric being impostors,” Stanley says. “I think an impostor is a guy up there doing it for a pay cheque.”

Meanwhile, both ex-members have expressed their disappointment. Guitarist Frehley says: “For years, Gene and Paul have been trying to minimise my contributions to the band, even though I designed the famous Kiss logo and the trademarked make-up for the Spaceman character.”

Criss comments: “We should have been able to work it out as grown men. It’s a shame we couldn’t.”


http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/kiss-rock-hall-reunion-was-never-going-to-happen/

People around here rank on Journey's inability to work together. But KISS makes Journey look like The Get Along Gang. I thought the issue was that the RRHOF wasn't going to let anybody but the original four play. It turns out that Paul & Gene don't want to share. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they didn't even want Ace & Peter inducted with them. Remember how rumor had it that Santana wanted to be inducted alone and did what he could to leave Neal out. I bet they would do the show themselves without anyone else if they could. I hope they both get booed when they go on stage .

At least we know Journey wouldn't pull stunts like this. Has anybody else just flat out refused to perform at the concert?

[slucero]

I still don't know why Santana is in the HOF..

[steveo777]

I still don't know why Santana is in the HOF..

What is not to understand?

[slucero]

I still don't know why Santana is in the HOF..

What is not to understand?

Well.. I'm not a really big fan of Santana... I know of "Black Magic Woman", and his last hit was "Supernatural".. which owes a lot of its success to the guest artist appearances.. it was also his biggest album... selling 30 million..

I feel the same about Santana as I do about the Greatful Dead.. its all "jam music" like... really don't get the allure...

[steveo777]

I still don't know why Santana is in the HOF..

What is not to understand?

Well.. I'm not a really big fan of Santana... I know of "Black Magic Woman", and his last hit was "Supernatural".. which owes a lot of its success to the guest artist appearances.. it was also his biggest album... selling 30 million..

I feel the same about Santana as I do about the Greatful Dead.. its all "jam music" like... really don't get the allure...

I've always thought Carlos to be talented and now is a legend. He did kind of dick Neal over by not giving him any credit on the album he played on. So....it surprises me that Neal isn't pissed and is willing to play on a new Santana album. Back in high school I really used to like Santana.

[slucero]

I've always thought Carlos to be talented and now is a legend. He did kind of dick Neal over by not giving him any credit on the album he played on. So....it surprises me that Neal isn't pissed and is willing to play on a new Santana album. Back in high school I really used to like Santana.

Ya I never got into them... all their songs sounded the same to me...

[Final Frontiers]

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has explained why only four members of Kiss were chosen for induction into their organization, prompting a strong response from singer / guitarist Paul Stanley.

Remaining founders Gene Simmons and Stanley would like to see subsequent members of the group recognized, while the hall has limited the award to Kiss’s original lineup, which also included Ace Frehley and Peter Criss. When he was rebuffed, Stanley said Kiss wouldn’t appear.

“We have other artists, other inductees showing up and performing when they can,” Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation CEO Joel Peresman tells Billboard. “We’re very hopeful that Ace and Peter and Paul and Gene come and accept their award. We’re obviously honored to have them inducted.”

Stanley confirms that he will attend the ceremony, set for April 10 at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn. But he likewise isn’t budging on his insistence that contributors like Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer, who have performed together in the current Kiss lineup since 2002, should also be on stage.

“There are a lot of people who are great inspirations to me, and still are, who are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and for that reason and the fact that fans want us in there, I graciously and vigorously will be there to accept the award,” Stanley says. “We should salute and enjoy an evening that celebrates what the four of us started. But just because I’m getting inducted doesn’t mean it’s turned into a love fest.”

Peresman also outlined the reasons behind the decision to limit the induction to Kiss’ initial founding members, saying Thayer and Eric Singer “are fine musicians who … basically have the same makeup and are the same characters that Ace and Peter started. It’s not like they created these other characters with different makeup and playing different songs. They took the persona of characters that were created by Ace and Peter.”

This statement prompted a fast and direct rebuttal from Stanley, posted on the band’s official website and included in full below:


The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame continues to attempt to restore its questionable credibility and glimpses behind the facade with nonsense and half truths.

The truth is Joel Peresman and the rest of the decision makers refused to consider the induction of ANY former KISS members and specifically the late Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick who were both in the band through multi-platinum albums and worldwide tours and DIDN’T* wear makeup.

There is no getting around the reality that the Hall of Fame’s favoritism and preferential treatment towards artists they like goes as far as ASKING the Grateful Dead how many members THEY wanted the hall to induct and following their directive while also including a songwriter who was never in the actual band.

Let’s just accept the truth as it is and move on.

- Paul Stanley

*Note: Carr wore his own unique, fox-themed makeup from the time he joined the group in 1980 until their public “unmasking” in 1983.

Kiss has moved on from the controversy, announcing a co-headlining tour this with Def Leppard and a massive vinyl reissue project. Stanley will also release an autobiography called ‘Face The Music: A Life Exposed’ just two days before their induction, on April 8.


Read More: Hall of Fame CEO Explains Why They Excluded Current Kiss Members | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/hall-of- ... ck=tsmclip





Former Kiss guitarist Ace Frehley regards the current version of the group as “half a Kiss cover band,” but he insists he isn’t losing any sleep over the group’s refusal to play at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony next month.

Frehley shared his feelings during a recent chat with Revolver, reiterating that this latest Kiss controversy occurred because remaining founders Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley wanted to perform at the ceremony with current members Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer, while the Rock Hall was only interested in making room for the original foursome: Simmons, Stanley, Frehley, and drummer Peter Criss. “Last I heard, there’s going to be no performance,” Frehley shrugged. “There has been a lot of negotiating behind closed doors and I’m sworn to secrecy. But last I heard, there’s just going to be no performance.”

Reflecting on his recent on-stage reunion with Criss, Frehley mused, “I’ve been reading stuff on the Internet and Paul and Gene have been insinuating that maybe Peter and myself don’t have it anymore, which is a load of crap. We proved otherwise … but aside from that, it’s very misleading. I think somehow they wanted to validate the current lineup. I don’t have a problem with the current lineup. It is what it is — it’s half a Kiss cover band.”

Admitting that Stanley “brought out the inconsistencies” in the Rock Hall’s induction process when he pointed out that some bands have been allowed to induct replacement members and others haven’t, Frehley refused to “take potshots” at the Hall, saying, “It’s a cool organization. But it is what it is.” And that basically sums up his public attitude toward being denied an opportunity to perform at the induction ceremony, too — as he put it, “I don’t know what the reason is. And at this point, I don’t care because it was renting so much space in my head, it was affecting my creativity and finishing up my record.”


Read More: Ace Frehley Calls Current Kiss Lineup 'Half a Cover Band' | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/ace-freh ... ck=tsmclip