Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

[YoungJRNY]

We finally have an official title for the MoS sequel, thus, a new thread is born.





Release date (as of 5.21.14): May 6th, 2016

[verslibre]

That's a very "DC" title, nodoubtaboutit.

Will somebody leak Wonder-Gal pix already?

[RedWingFan]

So for this "Man of Steel" sequel, Superman doesn't even get top billing?

[YoungJRNY]

There's logic into it:



In other words, Batman is the antagonist and will take it up with Superman, who will be on the defense after the catastrophe we saw in Man of Steel. The Dawn of Justice subtitle comes after the versus title, which means their battle will see a uniting, which in turn will open the door for Justice League.

[Memorex]

My knowledge of Batman and Superman extends only to the popular TV shows and movies. No cartoons, no comics, etc. Can someone describe what Batman's beef with Superman is? I guess if three super-powered villains came to earth to take it over, I could forgive some destruction.

[verslibre]

There's logic into it:



In other words, Batman is the antagonist and will take it up with Superman, who will be on the defense after the catastrophe we saw in Man of Steel. The Dawn of Justice subtitle comes after the versus title, which means their battle will see a uniting, which in turn will open the door for Justice League.

While I think they could have come up with a slightly better title, that does make sense, which means (as usual) there's a method to the madness and all the haters are quick on the trigger.

[YoungJRNY]

My knowledge of Batman and Superman extends only to the popular TV shows and movies. No cartoons, no comics, etc. Can someone describe what Batman's beef with Superman is? I guess if three super-powered villains came to earth to take it over, I could forgive some destruction.

Forgiving and trusting isn't in Batman's vocabulary... but it is in Superman's.

The Superman/Batman dynamic and relationship has played out for generations in the comics and genre in all mediums. There are many, but usually most stories see them coming together to form a common fight for Justice, but always, in one form or another, never seeing eye to eye in how to go about the good fight, always butting heads (Bats being more of the aggressor; Supes being more of the listener) but at the end of the day, having that common respect in their individual craft for one another.

The other medium is known as the World's Finest, where they are buddy-buddy, shake hands and are bests of friends, usually played out in the older generation of comic books. The prior has been the norm for quite sometime now, though.

In Man of Steel, Superman is the first hero to be thrust into the spotlight as the world sees it. Other hero's exist, like Batman and have existed for a long time, but for some unknown origin, they chose to keep hidden from all of society and act in the background, never to be seen.

What we DO know about this Batman, is that he will be an "old, seasoned, weary" and could be a Batman that only exists into the eye of his own urban myth or camp-fire legend.

This will be a Batman more geared towards the comic books, where Bruce Wayne is mostly a tortured soul that is as distant from society as much as possible and has little to no faith in humanity but fights for common Justice of ridding Gotham of its own scum and filth.

He is a true black belt in combat and knows mostly every form of karate and jujitsu, but above all, he is always prepared and is a paranoid DETECTIVE above all else and I think that's where his beef with Superman comes into play. The threat of an in-experienced alien that has no clue how to harness the power he inherits, as seen from the events of Man of Steel where Bruce will see this alien as a threat to all humanity on his own turf.

Plus, we saw Superman/Zod destroy a Wayne Enterprise's satellite, which could have cost Wayne Enterprises billions of dollars, which could see Bruce team up with Lex Luthor as part of a way to rebuild Metropolis and teammup to take this disturbing alien down.

It's all speculation at this point, but going by the facts we got (which are minute at this point) Batman's going to be the antagonist here to go along with the evil empire of LexCorp and Lex Luthor, which could be as juicy as it gets.

And don't forget Wonder Woman, either

[verslibre]

So what did you think of TDKR?

As far as the movie goes, Zack and David know there's a lot riding on this venture. I think when it finally comes out, we're all going to be pretty fucking wowed. Just my prediction.

[Memorex]

My knowledge of Batman and Superman extends only to the popular TV shows and movies. No cartoons, no comics, etc. Can someone describe what Batman's beef with Superman is? I guess if three super-powered villains came to earth to take it over, I could forgive some destruction.

Forgiving and trusting isn't in Batman's vocabulary... but it is in Superman's.

The Superman/Batman dynamic and relationship has played out for generations in the comics and genre in all mediums. There are many, but usually most stories see them coming together to form a common fight for Justice, but always, in one form or another, never seeing eye to eye in how to go about the good fight, always butting heads (Bats being more of the aggressor; Supes being more of the listener) but at the end of the day, having that common respect in their individual craft for one another.

The other medium is known as the World's Finest, where they are buddy-buddy, shake hands and are bests of friends, usually played out in the older generation of comic books. The prior has been the norm for quite sometime now, though.

In Man of Steel, Superman is the first hero to be thrust into the spotlight as the world sees it. Other hero's exist, like Batman and have existed for a long time, but for some unknown origin, they chose to keep hidden from all of society and act in the background, never to be seen.

What we DO know about this Batman, is that he will be an "old, seasoned, weary" and could be a Batman that only exists into the eye of his own urban myth or camp-fire legend.

This will be a Batman more geared towards the comic books, where Bruce Wayne is mostly a tortured soul that is as distant from society as much as possible and has little to no faith in humanity but fights for common Justice of ridding Gotham of its own scum and filth.

He is a true black belt in combat and knows mostly every form of karate and jujitsu, but above all, he is always prepared and is a paranoid DETECTIVE above all else and I think that's where his beef with Superman comes into play. The threat of an in-experienced alien that has no clue how to harness the power he inherits, as seen from the events of Man of Steel where Bruce will see this alien as a threat to all humanity on his own turf.

Plus, we saw Superman/Zod destroy a Wayne Enterprise's satellite, which could have cost Wayne Enterprises billions of dollars, which could see Bruce team up with Lex Luthor as part of a way to rebuild Metropolis and teammup to take this disturbing alien down.

It's all speculation at this point, but going by the facts we got (which are minute at this point) Batman's going to be the antagonist here to go along with the evil empire of LexCorp and Lex Luthor, which could be as juicy as it gets.

And don't forget Wonder Woman, either

Wow. Thanks for that explanation. That helps a lot. I'll forgive your 6th super-bowl win - for the time being.

I am personally having trouble in my head imagining some of the casting, mostly Affleck and Eisenberg. I mean, I can see it, but I hope I'm not sitting there going "oh look - it's Affleck and Eisenberg".

By your description, I'm really looking forward to the dynamic and seeing what they do with it. I enjoyed MOS quite a bit. I was kind of bored with the latest round of Batman movies by the third one. I really enjoyed the first.

Thanks again. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it.

[YoungJRNY]

Thanks again. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it.

No problem! I love this stuff. v is very knowledgeable as well. I take his word into high account compared to the bums in the fanboy communities

I am personally having trouble in my head imagining some of the casting, mostly Affleck and Eisenberg. I mean, I can see it, but I hope I'm not sitting there going "oh look - it's Affleck and Eisenberg".

I can see those concerns. Others share them. The casting to this movie was so out of the box that it almost instantly got people intrigued. Once you get past Affleck's early career and Eisenberg's scrawny appearance, I believe they are going to absolutely shine in their roles and I think Affleck is going to surprise a boatload of people.

Affleck's Batman is already shaping up to be something crazy-good. Same with Eisenberg. This is a Lex we've never seen before and his intellect as an actor is sky-high..an academy award winning actor.

Plus, say what you want about Zack Snyder, but the dude is ALWAYS A+ with his casting ACROSS THE BOARD. Snyder adapts alot from the comics and Affleck and Eisenberg look their part:

I'll forgive your 6th super-bowl win - for the time being.

It's okay, I don't sweat it Especially since I was rooting my ASS off for the 9'ers in XLVII!

[YoungJRNY]

AMC Movie Talk discusses the New title of MAN OF STEEL 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFETCVJm6XI

[RedWingFan]

Wow. 92%!!!! http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/x_men_d ... ture_past/
It's still early, but I can't believe this is actually ahead of The Winter Soldier in critic reviews. Hope it lives up to expectations. 14 years out and X-Men is still going strong without rebooting. Wish Raimi's Spidey would have gotten that chance. Damn Sony Pictures.

[YoungJRNY]

Yeah, that's crazy. For me to be excited about a X-Men movie after all these years is telling. I saw the trailers and was instantly sold.

[The_Noble_Cause]

So for this "Man of Steel" sequel, Superman doesn't even get top billing?

Correct. Despite YoungJRNY's gushing fanboy delusions, MOS left the franchise pretty much DOA, alot like Superman Returns. I think its a safe bet that there will never be another standalone MOS film. I think this whole project sounds like shit and Zack Snyder is a graduate from the Michael Bay school of hack soulless film making.

[RedWingFan]

So for this "Man of Steel" sequel, Superman doesn't even get top billing?

Correct. Despite YoungJRNY's gushing fanboy delusions, MOS left the franchise pretty much DOA, alot like Superman Returns. I think its a safe bet that there will never be another standalone MOS film. I think this whole project sounds like shit and Zack Snyder is a graduate from the Michael Bay school of hack soulless film making.

Yeah, I just don't get the logic of making this movie having Superman and introducing a new Batman who's supposedly in a different phase of his life or whatever then throwing in WW, and introducing and developing Luther in a 2-2 1/2 hour movie. Which is supposed to lead into a Justice League movie that I'm guessing will introduce new heros. What's after that? stand alone movies for the heros so we can finally get to know the characters? That's ass backwards in my book. I hope they're great movies, I'm always looking to expand my 3d library but I think B v. S is going to suffer from every other comic book movie with too many new characters, i.e. (SM3, ASM2, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin) Piss poor character development is a sure fire indicator of a disappointing movie.

[YoungJRNY]

So for this "Man of Steel" sequel, Superman doesn't even get top billing?

Correct. Despite YoungJRNY's gushing fanboy delusions, MOS left the franchise pretty much DOA, alot like Superman Returns. I think its a safe bet that there will never be another standalone MOS film. I think this whole project sounds like shit and Zack Snyder is a graduate from the Michael Bay school of hack soulless film making.

Wrong. Everything you say completely contradicts the facts and what is officially confirmed. You and RWF hated MoS, we get it but I'm not delusional, I'm logical.

The whole success of Man of Steel was always riding on expanding into and introducing other heroes and pave the way towards the DCCinematic Universe. If MoS failed like SR like you say, not only wouldn't the ENTIRE CAST OF MoS return (Henry Cavill, Amy Adams, Diane Lane, Lawrence Fishbourne) then Zack Snyder, the souless hack, wouldn't be returning as well and instead, would have just went with a Batman reboot.

MoS's sequel was announced at San Diego Comic Con only 30 days of its release in theaters.

Not only is Snyder filming BvS, but he is officially the helm director to the Justice League as well, both franchise's could potentially be WB's sacred properties so obviously, they think he's their man and they finally committed, all because of Man of Steel

Yeah, I just don't get the logic of making this movie having Superman and introducing a new Batman who's supposedly in a different phase of his life or whatever then throwing in WW, and introducing and developing Luther in a 2-2 1/2 hour movie. Which is supposed to lead into a Justice League movie that I'm guessing will introduce new heros. What's after that? stand alone movies for the heros so we can finally get to know the characters?

You're answering your own questions.

That's ass backwards in my book.

It's supposed to be and that's what WB/DC is set out to do being the alternative. You don't have to follow the Marvel-formula to make a successful Cinematic Universe, you know. At all.

Zack Snyder 5:35-6:34 (interviewed by critics the same day MoS was released):

"You have to look at the rest of the DC Universe and I implied that there are other DC characters living in this world, we don't see them, but there's evidence that they're out there. Just like you top down Superman, you have to top down the rest of the DC characters. Not to say they need their own movies, per-say, like the Marvel model, which I don't rule out, but I DO think there's an OPPORTUNITY to how you introduce other DC characters, whether that's a Justice League movie or if that's a way of expanding Superman's universe, that's the next conversation..for ME."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExT5rqFqef0

every other comic book movie with too many new characters

It's really not that crowded at all, no different than a normal flick, or like the movie that is absolutely smothered in characters that you just posted with the 92% rotten tomato rating The main plot and emphasis is going to be on Supes and Bats and with Terrio writing off of Goyer's screenplay, it's going to be SOLID.

[YoungJRNY]

That said, lets just put your money where your mouth is, TNC. Lets wager a bet. There's too many Super-characters that have yet to see the big screen that fans have always been dying for that the studio recognizes. Superman will have solo-sequels down the line with villains such as say, Brainiac and Doomsday, not to mention deserving his own sequel with Lex alone as well. I'd wager $50 that after Justice League, Superman will get another MoS/Superman solo sequel (s).

[The_Noble_Cause]

That said, lets just put your money where your mouth is, TNC. Lets wager a bet. There's too many Super-characters that have yet to see the big screen that fans have always been dying for that the studio recognizes. Superman will have solo-sequels down the line with villains such as say, Brainiac and Doomsday, not to mention deserving his own sequel with Lex alone as well. I'd wager $50 that after Justice League, Superman will get another MoS/Superman solo sequel (s).

Your on, bro. I'll take that wager. Seein XMen tonite. Hope its as good as the critics are saying...

[YoungJRNY]

That said, lets just put your money where your mouth is, TNC. Lets wager a bet. There's too many Super-characters that have yet to see the big screen that fans have always been dying for that the studio recognizes. Superman will have solo-sequels down the line with villains such as say, Brainiac and Doomsday, not to mention deserving his own sequel with Lex alone as well. I'd wager $50 that after Justice League, Superman will get another MoS/Superman solo sequel (s).

Your on, bro. I'll take that wager. Seein XMen tonite. Hope its as good as the critics are saying...

Awesome. It's on, then!

Will prob be seeing X-Men Sunday, my heads thrown for a whirl lately. Wanted to catch ASM2 and couldn't. Then Godzilla and couldn't. I really need to get to the theater to see DoFP this weekend.

[verslibre]

That said, lets just put your money where your mouth is, TNC. Lets wager a bet. There's too many Super-characters that have yet to see the big screen that fans have always been dying for that the studio recognizes. Superman will have solo-sequels down the line with villains such as say, Brainiac and Doomsday, not to mention deserving his own sequel with Lex alone as well. I'd wager $50 that after Justice League, Superman will get another MoS/Superman solo sequel (s).

Your on, bro. I'll take that wager. Seein XMen tonite. Hope its as good as the critics are saying...

"Your on"? Where exactly did you submit a short story?

Kidding aside, I think you'd better just write out the check now. A Superman sequel (without Batman) is a sure thing.

[verslibre]

So for this "Man of Steel" sequel, Superman doesn't even get top billing?

Correct. Despite YoungJRNY's gushing fanboy delusions, MOS left the franchise pretty much DOA, alot like Superman Returns. I think its a safe bet that there will never be another standalone MOS film. I think this whole project sounds like shit and Zack Snyder is a graduate from the Michael Bay school of hack soulless film making.

You're kidding, right? When Returns didn't even have a sequel announced A YEAR AFTER its release?

[verslibre]

Re: "lots" of characters that can potentially bog down a movie.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier (a great movie which everyone here should watch) had plenty of characters that got gobs of screen time. Cap, Black Widow, Falcon, Bucky, Fury. In fact, Fury had a bigger presence in this movie than the others.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're kidding, right? When Returns didn't even have a sequel announced A YEAR AFTER its release?

Point being? If Marvel had The Avengers franchise up and running then, I am sure a Returns sequel would've been announced. They would have crammed Batman, Aquaman, and The Ambiguously Gay Duo in it too. Shut off the static closed feedback loop of the internet. There is very little public support for a MOS sequel. If you are so confidant in your belief, put your money where your mouth is. I have my paypal account set up and ready to go..

[verslibre]

You're kidding, right? When Returns didn't even have a sequel announced A YEAR AFTER its release?

Point being? If Marvel had The Avengers franchise up and running then, I am sure a Returns sequel would've been announced. They would have crammed Batman, Aquaman, and The Ambiguously Gay Duo in it too. Shut off the static closed feedback loop of the internet. There is very little public support for a MOS sequel. If you are so confidant in your belief, put your money where your mouth is. I have my paypal account set up and ready to go..

I am indeed confident about a Superman sequel down the line after Dawn of Justice. It may not immediately follow it, but it's a certainty — and I will gladly take your $50.

[YoungJRNY]

You're kidding, right? When Returns didn't even have a sequel announced A YEAR AFTER its release?

Point being? If Marvel had The Avengers franchise up and running then, I am sure a Returns sequel would've been announced. They would have crammed Batman, Aquaman, and The Ambiguously Gay Duo in it too. Shut off the static closed feedback loop of the internet. There is very little public support for a MOS sequel. If you are so confidant in your belief, put your money where your mouth is. I have my paypal account set up and ready to go..

That paypal account is going to be $100 poorer Seriously, there's going to atleast be 2 Superman solo sequels in the future. The way they are setting this thing up is having the Justice League teammup in one movie and branching off solo-franchise's from there. Dewayne "The Rock" Johnson has signed on to a DC property and lead franchise, but the role hasn't been confirmed yet so they are branching off and nailing down their solo-runs, which is why the delay occured. Superman is not going to have just another solo-sequel down the road, but 2 at bare minimum.

Oh yeah, the logo you see smack dab in the middle of the Dawn of Justice is the marketable Man of Steel logo. Let that sink in for a second.

[RedWingFan]

Re: "lots" of characters that can potentially bog down a movie.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier (a great movie which everyone here should watch) had plenty of characters that got gobs of screen time. Cap, Black Widow, Falcon, Bucky, Fury. In fact, Fury had a bigger presence in this movie than the others.

Great point. EXCEPT I said, "too many new characters". Cap, Widow, Bucky, and Fury were all pretty much fleshed out in previous movies so we already knew and were invested in them. Falcon was the only new character. That's why the Avengers worked so well. B v S is going to introduce Bat, Ww, luthor at the least and try to get us to give a Damn about them and tell a compelling plot in 2+ hours. Unlikely at best.

[RedWingFan]

You're kidding, right? When Returns didn't even have a sequel announced A YEAR AFTER its release?

Point being? If Marvel had The Avengers franchise up and running then, I am sure a Returns sequel would've been announced. They would have crammed Batman, Aquaman, and The Ambiguously Gay Duo in it too.

I think you're absolutely right about this. YJ himself admitted before that DC couldn't afford to wait to put out Justice League. That's why they're doing what they're doing now. If Marvel had started their franchises years earlier Routh would have kept the gig and they would have been forced to cobble together a JL or B v S back then. I think they tried the Marvel model with the release of Green Lantern but didn't have the balls to follow through when that did less than stellar.

[verslibre]

You're kidding, right? When Returns didn't even have a sequel announced A YEAR AFTER its release?

Point being? If Marvel had The Avengers franchise up and running then, I am sure a Returns sequel would've been announced. They would have crammed Batman, Aquaman, and The Ambiguously Gay Duo in it too.

I think you're absolutely right about this. YJ himself admitted before that DC couldn't afford to wait to put out Justice League. That's why they're doing what they're doing now. If Marvel had started their franchises years earlier Routh would have kept the gig and they would have been forced to cobble together a JL or B v S back then. I think they tried the Marvel model with the release of Green Lantern but didn't have the balls to follow through when that did less than stellar.

Green Lantern failed to ignite a JL franchise because, like the second Fantastic Four movie, it featured a giant sentient cloud for a villain, and the secondary villain, Hector Hammond, wasn't compelling enough, just like Doctor Doom. That's why FF is getting the forthcoming reboot.

Green Lantern wasn't well-done. It was medium-rare, at best. It should have been an amazing film but 80% of it needed a rewrite.

[verslibre]

Re: "lots" of characters that can potentially bog down a movie.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier (a great movie which everyone here should watch) had plenty of characters that got gobs of screen time. Cap, Black Widow, Falcon, Bucky, Fury. In fact, Fury had a bigger presence in this movie than the others.

Great point. EXCEPT I said, "too many new characters". Cap, Widow, Bucky, and Fury were all pretty much fleshed out in previous movies so we already knew and were invested in them. Falcon was the only new character. That's why the Avengers worked so well. B v S is going to introduce Bat, Ww, luthor at the least and try to get us to give a Damn about them and tell a compelling plot in 2+ hours. Unlikely at best.

We don't know how much of a backstory Luthor is going to get. We don't how large a presence Wonder Woman and Cyborg will each have (I suspect not that much for the latter).

If we get to see them all in action, it may just be that: action, and they'll get exposition later. WB/DC may be trying the reverse-Marvel Studios path. That can work, too.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Green Lantern failed to ignite a JL franchise because, like the second Fantastic Four movie, it featured a giant sentient cloud for a villain..

As if the insectoid aliens in The Avengers were so much better? But, hey, at least that film had Loki. Both FF movies made money, but they were pretty mediocre (tho Chiklis was good as Thing). The new FF reboot ramping up doesn't sound too much better.