A Conversation with Cain Part 2

[slucero]

If that were true then Jon would have been complaining about Revelation, which he did not. And it sold pretty well.

Agreed.. Arnel hype to the bank. Since then... no Arnel hype... no bank. No Perry.

[tater1977]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-rago ... 62405.html

07/08/2014
Mike Ragogna

... MR: Where do you feel Journey is heading? Is there a game plan when it comes to Journey or, at this point, are you guys just getting together to have fun?

NS: We are talking about getting together and recording a new record. We just don't know quite what we're going to do. I think musically, we know where we're going to go. We're not going to try and reinvent the wheel, yet we're not going to try and repeat anything we've done either. We did some experimental records back a ways, even with Steve Augeri. We had this record called Red Thirteen, it was this little EP, and then we did this record called Generations and Arrival. There are three records there and I feel like--maybe not all the way through the three records--there are some great songs there that could be redone, re-looked at and re-recorded with Arnel. That's one idea that I've been tossing around with Jonathan [Cain] and he sort of agrees with me. Once we get going and the music is going, I know that we'll write some brand new stuff as well. That's just a given.

MR: Here's a delicate question and it's out of curiosity, not gor gossip. You guys are on a great path with Arnel, but will Steve Perry fit into Journey's world anymore?

NS: I had been collaborating with Steve on a friendly basis just through email...it seemed like we were on a friendly basis. But he wasn't ready to get together and he isn't ready to get together. He's said numerous times now that there's no reunion and that he's not interested in doing anything like that. When Steve left, he wanted to do his solo thing and I think he remains there. We're fine, we're doing great the way we are. I don't think you've seen the massive crowds that we've had, but we've continued the legacy amazingly well. The door has always been open. I've approached him to work on a couple of things with me that were not even Journey-oriented, but he wasn't interested in doing it. It's fine, man. I wish him well and he says that he wishes us well....

[The_Noble_Cause]

Thanks Tater. Didn't the band already cannibalize Generations and redid 'Place in Your Heart' as well as "Faith in the Heartland'? Time to write some new music or hang it up.

Good to know that Neal isn't interested in any stunts, like re-recording Journey songs with other artists. I agree that is a death knell for many bands.

[tater1977]

Well they re-recorded SP/J material GH's with AP.
So if they re-record SA/J material GH with AP...
Wonder what they are hoping for

[The_Noble_Cause]

Well they re-recorded SP/J material GH's with AP.
So if they re-record SA/J material GH with AP...
Wonder what they are hoping for

"Higher Place" def. deserves a second shot at being heard. The rest, eh, as much as I love Arrival, you gotta keep creating new stuff.

[Majestic]

Well they re-recorded SP/J material GH's with AP.
So if they re-record SA/J material GH with AP...
Wonder what they are hoping for

"Higher Place" def. deserves a second shot at being heard. The rest, eh, as much as I love Arrival, you gotta keep creating new stuff.

That Arrival idea, is a strange one, the whole thing. Will they call it "Return?" or maybe "U-turn?" Sure, I will probably buy it and like it, because the songs are good and Pineda sings better, in my opinion. However, for everyone else I think it will look like a weird, desperate, uninspired, uncreative move by an old band wont to wasting time and money and who still won't sound enough like Bruno Mars to generate airplay or sell to modern teeny boppers who listen to radio, if, in fact, they even have radios or listen to them at all.

[Yoda]

I absolutely loathe the idea of Journey ever re-recording another song from the Steve Augeri era; or the Steve Perry era for that matter. I hated the re-record of “Faith in the Heartland”. I hated how Schon changed up his sliding guitar thing in the second version. It was annoying as crap! As good as Pineda is, he didn’t add anything to the song that made me feel the Augeri version was inferior. To this day, if I listen to FITH, it’s strictly the Augeri version.

And now, the talk of re-recording songs from Arrival? Stupid, stupid idea! Why do they continue to insist on blotting out Steve Augeri’s contributions? I love what Augeri brought to the band. It’s personal taste to whether one feels his vocals were on par with Perry’s or Pineda’s, but I loved his voice, and I wouldn’t change a thing. I would hate the idea if they re-recorded these songs with Perry. The only thing I DO agree with that these songs should be heard – WHICH IS WHY YOU PLAY THEM IN CONCERT! Heck, record a live CD with these songs being played if you must re-record them, but for Pete’s sake, leave the recordings alone.

[Majestic]

The only thing I DO agree with that these songs should be heard – WHICH IS WHY YOU PLAY THEM IN CONCERT! Heck, record a live CD with these songs being played if you must re-record them, but for Pete’s sake, leave the recordings alone.

Good suggestions, and a live CD is definitely the only way a band should ever re-record their catalogue!

[brywool]

If they wanted to do a Symphony thing, that's what the Revelation re-records should've been. To re-record them AGAIN with a Symphony, I wouldn't be interested. I also don't want to buy Arrival again. I love it. But I already own it.

I think that Eclipse wasn't give ANY chance to succeed and it sure didn't help that JC was out there pretty much distancing himself from it. If that album had been edited a bit, it would've been a bit more digestible for the soccer moms out there. But as it is, it's a great ROCK record. Jeez, let it stand as what it is and be proud of it. I remember when Arrival was first going to be released. It was SOOOO watered down with ballads. Thank God they went in and added some more upbeat songs to it.

Cain AND Neal need to realize that it's BOTH of these things. It can't be all "Open Arms" and "Who's Cryin' Now". It can't be all "In Self Defense" and "Castles Burning". It's GOT to be both or it won't be what the casual fan is after. The new stuff on Revelation was a GREAT mix of both of these elements.

[Gideon]

If they wanted to do a Symphony thing, that's what the Revelation re-records should've been. To re-record them AGAIN with a Symphony, I wouldn't be interested. I also don't want to buy Arrival again. I love it. But I already own it.

I think that Eclipse wasn't give ANY chance to succeed and it sure didn't help that JC was out there pretty much distancing himself from it. If that album had been edited a bit, it would've been a bit more digestible for the soccer moms out there. But as it is, it's a great ROCK record. Jeez, let it stand as what it is and be proud of it. I remember when Arrival was first going to be released. It was SOOOO watered down with ballads. Thank God they went in and added some more upbeat songs to it.

Cain AND Neal need to realize that it's BOTH of these things. It can't be all "Open Arms" and "Who's Cryin' Now". It can't be all "In Self Defense" and "Castles Burning". It's GOT to be both or it won't be what the casual fan is after. The new stuff on Revelation was a GREAT mix of both of these elements.

Eclipse is one of my top 3 favorite all-time Journey albums and I think it's extremely underrated by critics and naysayers. That said, there is some truth to what JC's saying here. There needs to be equilibrium between the rock and ballad elements. A 3 ballad, 3-4 mid-tempo, 4-5 rock spread for an album wouldn't be bad.

I'm hoping they release new material. There's some good ideas still left. All you need is a strong person to come in an rein both JC and NS in a bit.

[yandtguy]

You know what the highest charting single on Frontiers was? "Seperate Ways," a hard rock song. Not "Faithfully" or "After The Fall." Heck, even "Only The Young" charted higher than "Faithfully." What was the highest charting single from Raised on Radio? "Be Good To Yourself," another hard rock song. Not "Girl Can't Help It" or "I'll Be Alright Without You."

It was the Trial By Fire era that shifted the band to ballad mode. "When You Love A Woman" and "Message Of Love" were released simultaneously to different radio formats, and the ballad outperformed the rock song (though MOL was top 20 on the Mainstream Rock chart), and after Higher Place" didn't chart at all, the band has pinned all of their hopes for a successful single on ballads.

I believe the failure of MOL and Higher Place is attributed to the fact that they are "Seperate Ways" clones for the most part. "when You Love A Woman" managed to recapture the Journey magic but had a fresh vibe as well. While it became a classic JRNY ballad, it wasn't a clone of an earlier hit.

I would say, though, that the style really doesn't matter as much as Cain makes it out to be. The important thing is that you deliver a strong song, and Cain has made it clear that he is not interested in writing hard rock songs, so some of Journey's stronger songs on recent albums have been the mid-tempo songs and ballads. If Cain got inspired to rock again, the rock songs would be better. I believe he is trying to justify his own taste and preference instead of giving a truly accurate observation

[Yoda]

Brywool makes a good point with the Revelation re-records. That, to me, made a lot more sense, although I understand the legalities as to why they packaged that re-record CD.

And Yandtguy, you make some good points as well, although I think Higher Place didn't do well because it was Journey's first record without Steve Perry, and the general public was probably not interested in giving the new lineup a chance - which was disappointing. In fact, it still shocks me today that Trial By Fire had gotten the radio airplay it had gotten, seeing as how it was released right in the middle of the 1990's, when 80's rock groups and hair bands were a big "no-no".

[Lerxst101]

If they wanted to do a Symphony thing, that's what the Revelation re-records should've been. To re-record them AGAIN with a Symphony, I wouldn't be interested. I also don't want to buy Arrival again. I love it. But I already own it.

I think that Eclipse wasn't give ANY chance to succeed and it sure didn't help that JC was out there pretty much distancing himself from it. If that album had been edited a bit, it would've been a bit more digestible for the soccer moms out there. But as it is, it's a great ROCK record. Jeez, let it stand as what it is and be proud of it. I remember when Arrival was first going to be released. It was SOOOO watered down with ballads. Thank God they went in and added some more upbeat songs to it.

Cain AND Neal need to realize that it's BOTH of these things. It can't be all "Open Arms" and "Who's Cryin' Now". It can't be all "In Self Defense" and "Castles Burning". It's GOT to be both or it won't be what the casual fan is after. The new stuff on Revelation was a GREAT mix of both of these elements.

Eclipse is one of my top 3 favorite all-time Journey albums and I think it's extremely underrated by critics and naysayers. That said, there is some truth to what JC's saying here. There needs to be equilibrium between the rock and ballad elements. A 3 ballad, 3-4 mid-tempo, 4-5 rock spread for an album wouldn't be bad.

I'm hoping they release new material. There's some good ideas still left. All you need is a strong person to come in an rein both JC and NS in a bit.

Very good points by all. I have always thought that the sum of all parts (SP, NS and JC/GR) made for great songs. The individual parts -- and even two of the three parts together -- just haven't captured that same magic. I have always wished that Neal would utilize SP in his solo projects, and I thought that may be a way to break the ice. But if what Neal said is true (I take so much of it with a grain of salt, though I love his musicianship and passion to keep writing and playing), it appears he did in fact try to do just that, but SP declined. I still hold out hope, though, as I truly believe that the three of them have great songs in them that could be created together.

[Gideon]

Good points.

Personally, I've always considered JC to be the keystone to Journey's strong writing, more important than either Perry or Schon individually. But each of the others is important enough that their absence leaves something of a void. It doesn't necessarily have to be Perry filling that void. Could be Jack Blades or any other decent writer. But they could use a third one.

[yandtguy]

JC was the cornerstone to their writing hit singles. Personally, I would have been fine if they would have stayed more of an Album Oriented Rock band. Hit singles can be a curse. Once you have a massive hit, you'll always find yourself chasing another and another.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Alot of good points in this thread. YandTguy - I never understood the SW and HP comparisons. Two very different songs.

[Yoda]

Alot of good points in this thread. YandTguy - I never understood the SW and HP comparisons. Two very different songs.

Neither did I? I can understand a comparison of MOF to SW, simply because the keyboards after the second chorus in MOF sounds like the keys in SW, but HP doesn't seem like a clone to me.

[lparn]

Would love to see a Re record of knowing that you love me. Loved the one of place in your heart. As far as arrival, I think higher place signs of life, to be alive again and the rocker songs would be good with Arnel. Those songs should be heard.

[Journey2Infinity]

Honestly, I think Neal desperately wants to be recognized more and be a rock guitarist 'household name' like many of his peers. And deservedly so. It seems to me that the only way he feels he can accomplish this is to play harder rock - faster, louder, flashier, over-processed with more guitar solos - like many of his peers. He doesn't like the ballads as much because they are more known for piano and vocals, not guitar, save "Who's Cryin' Now". The fact is, Neal helped Journey become famous because of his blues-rock, melodic rock guitar sound. He was able to make many of his solos sing with emotion, much like another voice. And then at the appropriate time, during the appropriate song he could shred and blow people away. He had that perfect balance. It's gone now. Though impressive, the live shows are a big guitar jam session now. No restraint. No balance. Just my thoughts...

[Journey/Survivor]

Honestly, I think Neal desperately wants to be recognized more and be a rock guitarist 'household name' like many of his peers. And deservedly so. It seems to me that the only way he feels he can accomplish this is to play harder rock - faster, louder, flashier, over-processed with more guitar solos - like many of his peers. He doesn't like the ballads as much because they are more known for piano and vocals, not guitar, save "Who's Cryin' Now". The fact is, Neal helped Journey become famous because of his blues-rock, melodic rock guitar sound. He was able to make many of his solos sing with emotion, much like another voice. And then at the appropriate time, during the appropriate song he could shred and blow people away. He had that perfect balance.

I completely agree with all of this portion of your post.

And I somewhat agree with the last few sentences of your post that I did not quote above.

[JourneyHard]

What Cain says is right...Neal always wants to rock. Which is fine, but in the right context. There were hard rock Journey songs....that nobody listens to or you ever hear on the radio. They're filler songs on the albums. Hard rock isn't what Journey is.

Are you saying Wheel in The Sky, Any Way You Want It, Stone In Love, Chain Reaction, Keep on Runnin', Escape, and Separate Ways are filler songs?

[scarab]

don't forget Edge of the Blade, the best Journey Rocker of the Steve Perry Era.

Back in the day I played this song to a metal head friend and he said he loved the song, then I told him who it was.
He was shocked.

[JourneyHard]

don't forget Edge of the Blade, the best Journey Rocker of the Steve Perry Era.

Back in the day I played this song to a metal head friend and he said he loved the song, then I told him who it was.
He was shocked.

Exactly. People think Journey is Open Arms. If Escape had ten ballads on it, it would NOT be their best album ever. There is a good mix of ballads and rock on that album. This is what Journey needs to shoot for on their next album. Neal has to be willing to have ballads, but Jon has to be willing to rock.