‘Sort of the architect of that whole thing’: Journey’s pop

[tater1977]

‘Sort of the architect of that whole thing’: Journey’s pop-music savior wasn’t Steve Perry

July 26, 2014
by Something Else!

http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/07 ... eve-perry/

Journey’s transition from long-form fusion rockers to a pop juggernaut is typically credited to the arrival of Steve Perry. Robert Fleishman, the lead singer and composer hired just before Perry in an effort to shift Journey in a more commercial direction, would beg to differ.

Arriving in the run up to 1978′s Infinity, he’d ultimately receive co-writing credit for three of that album’s very best songs, including the radio hits “Wheel in the Sky” and “Anytime,” along with “Winds of March.” But before the project could be completed, Fleishman had been shown the door in favor of Perry — and a different version of the Journey’s history was written.

“I was kind of surprised when it came down,” Fleishman admits today, “but it is what it is. I still had a lot to do with the band being where they are today, in the sense that I was sort of like the architect of that whole thing. When I came into the situation, this was a band that played song for 15 minutes.”

The reasons, he says, had little to do with Perry’s memorable singing — much less his chemistry with Journey co-founders Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie. Instead, Fleishman chalks the decision up to label pressure.

“It was a sort of very political, on CBS’ side of the fence,” says Fleishman, who is now in a band called Sky. “They had this guy, an A&R guy, who was spending a lot of money on Steve Perry’s [pre-Journey] project. He was putting him in the studio, and everything. And this A&R guy kept hounding [original Journey manager] Herbie [Herbert], saying ‘you should get this guy. This guy sounds like Marty Balin, real San Francisco,’ and all of his stuff. Finally, they came down to the point where, you know, ‘if you take this guy on, we’ll give you more production money.’ It was The Godfather move, you know?”

Fleishman was left out in the cold, despite playing a foundational role in an album that would become Journey’s first-ever million seller, the first of six straight multi-platinum releases — and the generally accepted platform for all of the band’s mindboggling successes in the decade to follow.

“Here I come, and I’m a pop songwriter,” Fleishman adds, “and I kind of rearrange their furniture — and it was really hard for them to do in the beginning.” They eventually got the hang of it, clearly. But by the time the broader public learned who Journey was, this key figure in their transition had been all but forgotten.

[annie89509]

Woah ... now everybody with a smidgen of connection is coming out of the woodwork to claim some credit ... a piece of publicity. Who next? Charlie Tickner? Priarie Prince?

Funny.... with all this revisionist history we've been discussing. Robert says it's really the label that pushed Steve on the band. Herbie would beg to differ...and he called Robert a poodle, couldn't wait to get rid of him (CB interview).

If anyone wonders what Journey would have sounded like with RF, all we have to do is check out the yt videos (1977 festival in Hawaii). If Robert, or the blogger, thought Journey could have taken off just as successful with Robert in the lead ... well, they're delusional. (imho, of course)

JfB, where are you? Help me out, here ...

[FamilyMan]

Woah ... now everybody with a smidgen of connection is coming out of the woodwork to claim some credit ... a piece of publicity. Who next? Charlie Tickner? Priarie Prince?

Funny.... with all this revisionist history we've been discussing. Robert says it's really the label that pushed Steve on the band. Herbie would beg to differ...and he called Robert a poodle, couldn't wait to get rid of him (CB interview).

If anyone wonders what Journey would have sounded like with RF, all we have to do is check out the yt videos (1977 festival in Hawaii). If Robert, or the blogger, thought Journey could have taken off just as successful with Robert in the lead ... well, they're delusional. (imho, of course)

JfB, where are you? Help me out, here ...

I'm with you, Annie. Is RF kidding? The "architect"? Gimme a break.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm with you, Annie. Is RF kidding? The "architect"? Gimme a break.

Do you have facts proving otherwise, Mister CBS Newsman? Hmm? No wonder America's trust in the mainstream media is at an all time low. As far as everyone knows, RF is telling the truth. The tracks he co-wrote WERE Journey's first foray into a pop mainstream sensibility. RF didn't say "everyone else in the band sucked and couldn't play" or anything like that. And Annie, you are so defensive over Perry's legacy that anything which isn't an outright compliment is viewed as an attack. I am more than willing to give RF the benefit of the doubt here. Btw, Annie, it's George Tickner, not Charlie. And RF, unlike George Tickner, stayed in the industry, paid his dues, and is entitled to his viewpoint.

[Marabelle]

To a casual fan (yes, I am) his remarks are like using a small fan on a hot day; sure it stirs the air but it just doesn't cool the place down. Bravo for him jumping in and staking his claim; but oh, well. The serious ones here understands and knows what he is talking about and can argue and decipher and scrutinize what he said until the seasons change.

[Jeremey]

Robert's been a workhorse and made some great music over the past 35 years, but what this interview doesn't bring up is ... okay, so Perry was brought in by the label putting "pressure" on Journey to get hits and have a lead singer. But what was the reason Robert himself was brought in? Wasn't it because the label was pressuring the band to get hits and have a lead singer? By reading this interview blind without any sense of history, it seems that he just magically appeared in this band and taught them all about writing for radio and having hits – then they were forever changed ... my understanding has always been that the label wanted a singer and some hits, so they brought Robert in, and he clashed pretty quickly with Herbie Herbert. And regardless of the outcome, the "band" had already been directed to do all the things Robert is taking credit for in this interview. I'm sure his comments are taken out of context, as they always are in these sort of things. But if anyone really wants to credit Robert Fleischman for being the "architect" of Journey's future success ... well ... it just seems like quite a stretch to me.

[tater1977]

Robert's been a workhorse and made some great music over the past 35 years, but what this interview doesn't bring up is ... okay, so Perry was brought in by the label putting "pressure" on Journey to get hits and have a lead singer. But what was the reason Robert himself was brought in? Wasn't it because the label was pressuring the band to get hits and have a lead singer? By reading this interview blind without any sense of history, it seems that he just magically appeared in this band and taught them all about writing for radio and having hits – then they were forever changed ... my understanding has always been that the label wanted a singer and some hits, so they brought Robert in, and he clashed pretty quickly with Herbie Herbert. And regardless of the outcome, the "band" had already been directed to do all the things Robert is taking credit for in this interview. I'm sure his comments are taken out of context, as they always are in these sort of things. But if anyone really wants to credit Robert Fleischman for being the "architect" of Journey's future success ... well ... it just seems like quite a stretch to me.

+ 1

[Rick]

Robert's been a workhorse and made some great music over the past 35 years, but what this interview doesn't bring up is ... okay, so Perry was brought in by the label putting "pressure" on Journey to get hits and have a lead singer. But what was the reason Robert himself was brought in? Wasn't it because the label was pressuring the band to get hits and have a lead singer? By reading this interview blind without any sense of history, it seems that he just magically appeared in this band and taught them all about writing for radio and having hits – then they were forever changed ... my understanding has always been that the label wanted a singer and some hits, so they brought Robert in, and he clashed pretty quickly with Herbie Herbert. And regardless of the outcome, the "band" had already been directed to do all the things Robert is taking credit for in this interview. I'm sure his comments are taken out of context, as they always are in these sort of things. But if anyone really wants to credit Robert Fleischman for being the "architect" of Journey's future success ... well ... it just seems like quite a stretch to me.

Good insight, Jeremey. I was looking at your blog and saw where you're doing scribe videos. Do you have any that we can see?

[Monker]

Woah ... now everybody with a smidgen of connection is coming out of the woodwork to claim some credit ... a piece of publicity. Who next? Charlie Tickner? Priarie Prince?

Funny.... with all this revisionist history we've been discussing. Robert says it's really the label that pushed Steve on the band. Herbie would beg to differ...and he called Robert a poodle, couldn't wait to get rid of him (CB interview).

If anyone wonders what Journey would have sounded like with RF, all we have to do is check out the yt videos (1977 festival in Hawaii). If Robert, or the blogger, thought Journey could have taken off just as successful with Robert in the lead ... well, they're delusional. (imho, of course)

JfB, where are you? Help me out, here ...

This isn't revising history....I've been making this EXACT argument FOR YEARS. ALL of the credit for Journey becoming a vocal band does not go to Steve Perry - it had been happening before he even joined the band. That is a FACT.

[Monker]

Robert's been a workhorse and made some great music over the past 35 years, but what this interview doesn't bring up is ... okay, so Perry was brought in by the label putting "pressure" on Journey to get hits and have a lead singer. But what was the reason Robert himself was brought in? Wasn't it because the label was pressuring the band to get hits and have a lead singer? By reading this interview blind without any sense of history, it seems that he just magically appeared in this band and taught them all about writing for radio and having hits – then they were forever changed ... my understanding has always been that the label wanted a singer and some hits, so they brought Robert in, and he clashed pretty quickly with Herbie Herbert. And regardless of the outcome, the "band" had already been directed to do all the things Robert is taking credit for in this interview. I'm sure his comments are taken out of context, as they always are in these sort of things. But if anyone really wants to credit Robert Fleischman for being the "architect" of Journey's future success ... well ... it just seems like quite a stretch to me.

That is all true.

What it doesn't mean is Perry deserves ALL of the credit for Journey making the shift in sound. IT WAS ALREADY HAPPENING. Hell, you can even hear it a bit on the "Next" album. The FACT is that the sound was going to change no matter who was singing. Therefore, to give so much credit to Steve Perry is simply NOT factually accurate.

[Monker]

Robert's been a workhorse and made some great music over the past 35 years, but what this interview doesn't bring up is ... okay, so Perry was brought in by the label putting "pressure" on Journey to get hits and have a lead singer. But what was the reason Robert himself was brought in? Wasn't it because the label was pressuring the band to get hits and have a lead singer? By reading this interview blind without any sense of history, it seems that he just magically appeared in this band and taught them all about writing for radio and having hits – then they were forever changed ... my understanding has always been that the label wanted a singer and some hits, so they brought Robert in, and he clashed pretty quickly with Herbie Herbert. And regardless of the outcome, the "band" had already been directed to do all the things Robert is taking credit for in this interview. I'm sure his comments are taken out of context, as they always are in these sort of things. But if anyone really wants to credit Robert Fleischman for being the "architect" of Journey's future success ... well ... it just seems like quite a stretch to me.

Good insight, Jeremey. I was looking at your blog and saw where you're doing scribe videos. Do you have any that we can see?

What RF seems to be saying to me is the LABEL deserves the credit for making the shift, that he started that change, and Perry continued it...and Perry DID NOT do it on his own. That is VERY much what happened.

[annie89509]

Woah ... now everybody with a smidgen of connection is coming out of the woodwork to claim some credit ... a piece of publicity. Who next? Charlie Tickner? Priarie Prince?

Funny.... with all this revisionist history we've been discussing. Robert says it's really the label that pushed Steve on the band. Herbie would beg to differ...and he called Robert a poodle, couldn't wait to get rid of him (CB interview).

If anyone wonders what Journey would have sounded like with RF, all we have to do is check out the yt videos (1977 festival in Hawaii). If Robert, or the blogger, thought Journey could have taken off just as successful with Robert in the lead ... well, they're delusional. (imho, of course)

JfB, where are you? Help me out, here ...

This isn't revising history....I've been making this EXACT argument FOR YEARS. ALL of the credit for Journey becoming a vocal band does not go to Steve Perry - it had been happening before he even joined the band. That is a FACT.

Monker ... my revisionist history comment pertains to the Robert quote... just now, after all these years, saying it was the label that pushed Steve on the band... when we all have known that it was Herbie.

The argument is not whether Journey was already becoming a vocal band before SP showed up. Isn't that why RF was hired? We have a sample size of Journey w/RF on yt videos. And we know what SP has done...both singing and writing. All the credit goes to HH for picking the right man, that's all.

[annie89509]

I'm with you, Annie. Is RF kidding? The "architect"? Gimme a break.

Do you have facts proving otherwise, Mister CBS Newsman? Hmm? No wonder America's trust in the mainstream media is at an all time low. As far as everyone knows, RF is telling the truth. The tracks he co-wrote WERE Journey's first foray into a pop mainstream sensibility. RF didn't say "everyone else in the band sucked and couldn't play" or anything like that. And Annie, you are so defensive over Perry's legacy that anything which isn't an outright compliment is viewed as an attack. I am more than willing to give RF the benefit of the doubt here. Btw, Annie, it's George Tickner, not Charlie. And RF, unlike George Tickner, stayed in the industry, paid his dues, and is entitled to his viewpoint.

TNC ... hardcore fans all have somewhat of a bias point of view, depending on where our partiality lie. I suppose what you say is my tendency is no different than you or Monker or Giddy always jumping in to "set the record straight" or jump on anyone who dare post flowery compliments for SP. I don't take anything that is written or post here seriously. But I do have an opinion, and I will voice it if something doesn't sound right to me, as everyone here should. Makes for a more interesting and informative fan forum if there's more participation, don't you think? Speaking of ... where have all the long-time prolific posters go? Gunbot Don ... MichGirl ...BJG ... SteveW2 ... even Steve7 seemed to have stop posting.

And, of course, it's George Tickner (brain fart for saying Charlie). Journey's original main songwriter. Hey, GT should come out and give an interview saying he taught Journey how to compose songs ....

[Gideon]

suppose what you say is my tendency is no different than you or Monker or Giddy always jumping in to "set the record straight" or jump on anyone who dare post flowery compliments for SP.

I like you, Annie, but don't insult me by putting us in the same boat. TNC, Monker, and myself are pretty damn even-handed with praise and criticism for all parties and have the post history to prove it. You... not so much. I'll get on Schon's case just as quickly as I'll get on Perry's, but to you, Steve Perry is less a man than he is divine being: infallible, perfect, and always beyond reproach in any sphere of life.

[slucero]

suppose what you say is my tendency is no different than you or Monker or Giddy always jumping in to "set the record straight" or jump on anyone who dare post flowery compliments for SP.

I like you, Annie, but don't insult me by putting us in the same boat. TNC, Monker, and myself are pretty damn even-handed with praise and criticism for all parties and have the post history to prove it. You... not so much. I'll get on Schon's case just as quickly as I'll get on Perry's, but to you, Steve Perry is less a man than he is divine being: infallible, perfect, and always beyond reproach in any sphere of life.

lol @ chastising someone for telling you how you think.. by telling them how they think..

[Gideon]

suppose what you say is my tendency is no different than you or Monker or Giddy always jumping in to "set the record straight" or jump on anyone who dare post flowery compliments for SP.

I like you, Annie, but don't insult me by putting us in the same boat. TNC, Monker, and myself are pretty damn even-handed with praise and criticism for all parties and have the post history to prove it. You... not so much. I'll get on Schon's case just as quickly as I'll get on Perry's, but to you, Steve Perry is less a man than he is divine being: infallible, perfect, and always beyond reproach in any sphere of life.

lol @ chastising someone for telling you how you think.. by telling them how they think..

Eh? Annie wasn't telling me what I think nor was I rebuking her for it. She was misrepresenting my "tendency" as far as Perry/Journey is concerned and suggesting that we're all in the same boat, merely on opposite sides. That's nice, but simply not true. My post history reflects a fairly evenhanded approach to all things Perry/Journey. No one's exempt from criticism or praise in my book; I give it where I see fit, no matter who it is. Now, some may think I'm harder on Perry than what he deserves and that's open to debate; but the fact is that I have and will called Schon and co. to task for shitty decisions/subpar performances and I'll praise Perry for the opposite. Annie's interacted with me enough to know all that, even if she disagrees with my opinion. Her post history, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly and outrageously biased towards Perry. There's no semblance of objectivity there.

I'm all for passive aggressive potshots, Sluc, but your shot went way wide here.

[annie89509]

suppose what you say is my tendency is no different than you or Monker or Giddy always jumping in to "set the record straight" or jump on anyone who dare post flowery compliments for SP.

I like you, Annie, but don't insult me by putting us in the same boat. TNC, Monker, and myself are pretty damn even-handed with praise and criticism for all parties and have the post history to prove it. You... not so much. I'll get on Schon's case just as quickly as I'll get on Perry's, but to you, Steve Perry is less a man than he is divine being: infallible, perfect, and always beyond reproach in any sphere of life.

Talking to you ...trying to reason with you is like dealing with my boys. Sometimes I just want to wring your neck ...(too big to send to room or over knee) ......(sigh) you come from only one perspective (your own) and has to be right come hell or high water.

Let me tell you something about me, kid, if you don't already realize in that thick-head of yours, I'm probably one of the most fair-minded persons you'll ever meet(know). Your idea of even-handedness is to slash and burn ... take no prisoners. My idea is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Do I adore SP?....yes, I do. But I have never, nor would I ever, put anyone on a pedestal. You are so off the mark, it's not even funny.

[Gideon]

And your "gentle" approach wouldn't be a problem... If you applied it to more than just SP. But you've made it pretty clear over the years that you don't. You'll take Schon and co. to the woodshed at a moment's notice, but has SP ever been anything less than angelic in any regard? Nah. Every decision, justified; every performance, flawless. Excuses, excuses...

That's fine; you're free to drink the Kool-Aid and prostrate yourself before your idol. But me? I call it like I see it, make exceptions for NO ONE, and have the post history to prove it conclusively.

You can adore someone without looking at them through perpetually rose-tinted glasses.

[slucero]

Eh? Annie wasn't telling me what I think nor was I rebuking her for it. She was misrepresenting my "tendency" as far as Perry/Journey is concerned and suggesting that we're all in the same boat, merely on opposite sides. That's nice, but simply not true. My post history reflects a fairly evenhanded approach to all things Perry/Journey. No one's exempt from criticism or praise in my book; I give it where I see fit, no matter who it is. Now, some may think I'm harder on Perry than what he deserves and that's open to debate; but the fact is that I have and will called Schon and co. to task for shitty decisions/subpar performances and I'll praise Perry for the opposite. Annie's interacted with me enough to know all that, even if she disagrees with my opinion. Her post history, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly and outrageously biased towards Perry. There's no semblance of objectivity there.

I'm all for passive aggressive potshots, Sluc, but your shot went way wide here.

sure looks like her telling you "how you think"...

...is no different than you or Monker or Giddy always jumping in to "set the record straight" or jump on anyone who dare post flowery compliments for SP.

..sure sounds like you telling her "how she thinks"...

...but to you, Steve Perry is less a man than he is divine being: infallible, perfect, and always beyond reproach in any sphere of life.

[Rick]

Robert's been a workhorse and made some great music over the past 35 years, but what this interview doesn't bring up is ... okay, so Perry was brought in by the label putting "pressure" on Journey to get hits and have a lead singer. But what was the reason Robert himself was brought in? Wasn't it because the label was pressuring the band to get hits and have a lead singer? By reading this interview blind without any sense of history, it seems that he just magically appeared in this band and taught them all about writing for radio and having hits – then they were forever changed ... my understanding has always been that the label wanted a singer and some hits, so they brought Robert in, and he clashed pretty quickly with Herbie Herbert. And regardless of the outcome, the "band" had already been directed to do all the things Robert is taking credit for in this interview. I'm sure his comments are taken out of context, as they always are in these sort of things. But if anyone really wants to credit Robert Fleischman for being the "architect" of Journey's future success ... well ... it just seems like quite a stretch to me.

Good insight, Jeremey. I was looking at your blog and saw where you're doing scribe videos. Do you have any that we can see?

What RF seems to be saying to me is the LABEL deserves the credit for making the shift, that he started that change, and Perry continued it...and Perry DID NOT do it on his own. That is VERY much what happened.

If that's what he was saying, then that sounds very fair.

[Rick]

suppose what you say is my tendency is no different than you or Monker or Giddy always jumping in to "set the record straight" or jump on anyone who dare post flowery compliments for SP.

I like you, Annie, but don't insult me by putting us in the same boat. TNC, Monker, and myself are pretty damn even-handed with praise and criticism for all parties and have the post history to prove it. You... not so much. I'll get on Schon's case just as quickly as I'll get on Perry's, but to you, Steve Perry is less a man than he is divine being: infallible, perfect, and always beyond reproach in any sphere of life.

Talking to you ...trying to reason with you is like dealing with my boys. Sometimes I just want to wring your neck ...(too big to send to room or over knee) ......(sigh) you come from only one perspective (your own) and has to be right come hell or high water.

Let me tell you something about me, kid, if you don't already realize in that thick-head of yours, I'm probably one of the most fair-minded persons you'll ever meet(know). Your idea of even-handedness is to slash and burn ... take no prisoners. My idea is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Do I adore SP?....yes, I do. But I have never, nor would I ever, put anyone on a pedestal. You are so off the mark, it's not even funny.

[annie89509]

And your "gentle" approach wouldn't be a problem... If you applied it to more than just SP. But you've made it pretty clear over the years that you don't. You'll take Schon and co. to the woodshed at a moment's notice, but has SP ever been anything less than angelic in any regard? Nah. Every decision, justified; every performance, flawless. Excuses, excuses...

That's fine; you're free to drink the Kool-Aid and prostrate yourself before your idol. But me? I call it like I see it, make exceptions for NO ONE, and have the post history to prove it conclusively.

You can adore someone without looking at them through perpetually rose-tinted glasses.

Again, you made a blanket (false) statement about me that is so insulting, it's wrong! Like any regular reader/poster, I react to stuff that is posted here...only! Neal has had some head-scratching moments that's been folly for thread topics ... mostly of his own doing. When (find where) I have taken him to the woodshed? As for the other Journey bandmembers, I have given them more compliments than you have.

I said I have a favorite, no secret about that. But, personally, I have never, don't believe, in being judgmental or ever shown condemnation ...except maybe to you (to defend myself). So, go search all my posts.

You're so full of it!

[Gideon]

Again, you made a blanket (false) statement about me that is so insulting, it's wrong! Like any regular reader/poster, I react to stuff that is posted here...only! Neal has had some head-scratching moments that's been folly for thread topics ... mostly of his own doing. When (find where) I have taken him to the woodshed? As for the other Journey bandmembers, I have given them more compliments than you have.

I said I have a favorite, no secret about that. But, personally, I have never, don't believe, in being judgmental or ever shown condemnation ...except maybe to you (to defend myself). So, go search all my posts.

You're so full of it!

If I take the time to go through your post history and post examples, will you actually address it? If so, I'll do it. If not, I won't waste my time.

[Gina3008]

Everybody has their own opinions or reasons behind Journey’s success. So, IMHO each and every singer, player, manager etc. brought their own product to the success of Journey over several years, records and tours. Still, some seem really unwilling to admit just how much success Steve Perry really brought. Love him or hate him, in Behind The Music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmfaP1sDGrs

Neal Schon, himself, even gave him much credit when he stated at 16:22 “Steve was, you know, tremendously talented and I loved what he brought to the table at that point and I saw the light and this is the new Journey”

And, again, at 16:53, he stated “What he brought to the band was all the success. So he had the ball, he was running with it and we all let the reigns go.” (up to that point).

The record label started the turn by giving Herbie the job of moving Journey to a voice fronted band. Herbie continued the turn by choosing Steve, not Fleischman or any other singer, and Steve “took the reigns and ran with it” and the rest is history. So, to each, their success but Perry, with his phrasing, voice control and range, not to mention what he really brought as a great front man and how well his talent meshed with Neal’s guitar playing and later with Jonathan Cain’s melodies, was the final completion of the turn. Since Steve Perry, there has not been that level of success for Journey.

[Gideon]

Everybody has their own opinions or reasons behind Journey’s success. So, IMHO each and every singer, player, manager etc. brought their own product to the success of Journey over several years, records and tours. Still, some seem really unwilling to admit just how much success Steve Perry really brought. Love him or hate him, in Behind The Music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmfaP1sDGrs

Neal Schon, himself, even gave him much credit when he stated at 16:22 “Steve was, you know, tremendously talented and I loved what he brought to the table at that point and I saw the light and this is the new Journey”

And, again, at 16:53, he stated “What he brought to the band was all the success. So he had the ball, he was running with it and we all let the reigns go.” (up to that point).

The record label started the turn by giving Herbie the job of moving Journey to a voice fronted band. Herbie continued the turn by choosing Steve, not Fleischman or any other singer, and Steve “took the reigns and ran with it” and the rest is history. So, to each, their success but Perry, with his phrasing, voice control and range, not to mention what he really brought as a great front man and how well his talent meshed with Neal’s guitar playing and later with Jonathan Cain’s melodies, was the final completion of the turn. Since Steve Perry, there has not been that level of success for Journey.

Fleischman's comments are an outlier; the overwhelming sentiment is to give Perry the lion's share of credit. My views more or less echo yours, but of Journey's "Holy Trinity" of SP, NS, and JC, I feel that it's Jon Cain who is the most underrated and unrecognized for what he brought to the table.

[Gina3008]

[/quote] Fleischman's comments are an outlier; the overwhelming sentiment is to give Perry the lion's share of credit. My views more or less echo yours, but of Journey's "Holy Trinity" of SP, NS, and JC, I feel that it's Jon Cain who is the most underrated and unrecognized for what he brought to the table.[/quote]

Of all in the Journey “Holy Trinity”, Cain IS the most underrated and unrecognized. I have never understood this completely. Perhaps because he hasn’t teased the fans like Perry over the years. Or maybe because he hasn’t been as involved with the media or had as many well known collaborations with other musicians as Schon has. I just don’t know. Still, it definitely did take all 3 of the Journey Trinity to bring the greatest success to Journey. Their chemistry together was, for lack of a more definitive word, amazing.

[FamilyMan]

Robert's been a workhorse and made some great music over the past 35 years, but what this interview doesn't bring up is ... okay, so Perry was brought in by the label putting "pressure" on Journey to get hits and have a lead singer. But what was the reason Robert himself was brought in? Wasn't it because the label was pressuring the band to get hits and have a lead singer? By reading this interview blind without any sense of history, it seems that he just magically appeared in this band and taught them all about writing for radio and having hits – then they were forever changed ... my understanding has always been that the label wanted a singer and some hits, so they brought Robert in, and he clashed pretty quickly with Herbie Herbert. And regardless of the outcome, the "band" had already been directed to do all the things Robert is taking credit for in this interview. I'm sure his comments are taken out of context, as they always are in these sort of things. But if anyone really wants to credit Robert Fleischman for being the "architect" of Journey's future success ... well ... it just seems like quite a stretch to me.

thank you, Jeremey. That was the point I was trying to make before NC went into his usual, off-topic diatribe about the news media.

[Aaron]

This confirms once again that Herbie made the right call in 1977. WOW

[sniper16]

steve perry was already signed to cbs, so some if not all of this is correct, and cbs was pushing journey toward radio friendly songs, herbie stated that Robert already had his own manager and would not switch to hh so he got ride of him and perry jumped to hh , and the label guy was the one who made herbie aware of perry