Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:02 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:The title of the article is probably unwarranted givin' the nature of fan and flame wars, but I can't help but agree with EVERY word of this article:

‘Batman v Superman’ is too smart for Marvel fans
"Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe that’s not it at all. Maybe a wisecracking raccoon and Deadpool’s masturbation jokes are just a lot more interesting."
http://nypost.com/2016/03/30/batman-v-s ... vel-fans/#


The bottom line of the critique is:

People go to the movies to be entertained. BvS was not very entertaining for many people.

If people went to the movies to "think", as this article implies, then documentaries would be a lot more popular.

Deadpool was entertaining. Guardians of the Galaxy was entertaining. That is why both were more popular than expected. BvS did not entertain at the level many people expected....THAT is the difference.

It also has nothing to do with "Marvel fans". It has to do with the average person not getting it, not being able to follow the story, not being entertained. These same people may go to the Marvel films and enjoy them...but I do not believe they are sitting on the edge of their seat type of fanatic, marking their calendar for the next ten years worth of Marvel films. They simply go because the movies look fun...and overall it seems they are not too disappointed.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:10 am

BVS passed the 500 million mark today.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:15 am

verslibre wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote:The title of the article is probably unwarranted givin' the nature of fan and flame wars, but I can't help but agree with EVERY word of this article:

‘Batman v Superman’ is too smart for Marvel fans
"Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe that’s not it at all. Maybe a wisecracking raccoon and Deadpool’s masturbation jokes are just a lot more interesting."
http://nypost.com/2016/03/30/batman-v-s ... vel-fans/#


Yeah, it's a provocative title. So are the titles of many anti-BvS articles.

But you'd have to be a loon to not agree with this:

This dimension lends the film a gravity and level of interest that places it at the opposite end of the spectrum from such sophomoric Marvel movies as “The Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Guardians of the Galaxy” and “Deadpool.” All three feature brainless, low-stakes action that’s as interesting as watching a waiter fall down the stairs while carrying a tray of dishes; juvenile, self-referential jokes that are neither clever nor funny; and an imaginative perspective whose boundaries are marked by other movies and comic books.

At no point do these movies intersect with reality, much less muse about heavy political or philosophical points. These films are about themselves, which gives them a dismally onanistic tone that, along with their wit-free sense of humor, makes them ideally suited for the teen mentality that rules popular culture.

“Batman v Superman” may be pretentious, but it’s far more mature and ambitious than these other films, and it’s even occasionally interesting. A hauntingly painted tableau in which Superman is surrounded by worshippers on Mexico’s Day of the Dead underlines how eerie and alien it would be to have a superbeing among us. Moreover, the film considers the ramifications of superbeings to a depth rarely attempted in the 78-year history of these characters.


And, this is pretty much an ignorant argument about what Marvel's movies are all about. Deadpool was pretty much making fun of the entire genre, in a pretty sarcastic and comedic way...and a very unique way. Perhaps its brand of humor was too smart for the writer of this article to understand and appreciate. Guardians of the Galaxy was, as some here have admitted, a "space opera" sorta story which is more character driven. Perhaps its way of smartly putting together a group of contrasting characters and having them eventually come together as a group was too far above this writers head to understand and appreciate.

The truth is that this entire argument of "dark" versus "light hearted" is bullshit and misses the point. It is the story telling that really matters - and frankly, BvS does not do a good job at story telling. It doesn't matter if it's a comedy or a dark and serious story, if the story is not told in an entertaining way, people will not react well to it. THAT is what has happened with BvS.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:23 am

You're half right, Monker. But that's not everything about audiences. Is a form of entertainment a part of it? Absolutely, but it's only small piece of the pie.

Audiences, for the most part, accept all types of movies and genre's. Entertainment can come in many forms and with event movies like Batman V Superman, it's the spectacle. It's the build. It's the experience through and through that audiences enjoy the most with these types of movies. That's why summer blockbuster season is a much higher barometer of popcorn audiences. But not all of them seek the same thing.

There's no gurantee how audiences will react, but a movie like BvS, especially in the superhero genre, was made in a certain tone and wanted to tell a difference story. Snyder challenges the audience's and doesn't let them off the hook just because the competitor is spitting out gumball after gumball. In most cases, studios challenge to be different and that's the situation DC is in and it's working.

There's no telling what level of "entertainment" the audience left with BvS; but the movie is leaving some type of impression and that's entertaining in itself. Some people seek the rush of these big tent pole movies more than anything. The response is another beast in itself, but there's only one thing proven: people keep goin back for more.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:20 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:
"Save, Martha"
"Why did you say her name?!?!!!!!!!!"

People actually defend this shit? After BvS, Snyder will be lucky to land a job as an assistant grip on a Ron Jeremy porn shoot.


If people can sit there and defend the Mandarin situation in Iron Man 3 (which spit in the face of comic fans all around the world that completely DUPED them. That was highway robbery) then people can EASILY defend this. Atleast it's a worthy contender into the mythologies of both characters that makes sense in references to comic books. No actors this time around.

Iron Man 3 sucked. To a lesser extent, so did Iron Man 2. No arguments there bro.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby verslibre » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:58 am

Abitaman wrote:BVS passed the 500 million mark today.


Yesterday, actually!
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:05 am

verslibre wrote:
Abitaman wrote:BVS passed the 500 million mark today.


Yesterday, actually!


Yep. The Box office numbers aren't in for Wednesday. As of yesterday, it sat at $501,828,006 WW.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby RedWingFan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:49 am

verslibre wrote:At no point do these movies intersect with reality..

Yeah, because Superman flying around, Batman hopping around avoiding blows from Doomsday, and Aquaman going 0-200 in 1.2 seconds intersects with reality. :roll:
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:11 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:You're half right, Monker. But that's not everything about audiences. Is a form of entertainment a part of it? Absolutely, but it's only small piece of the pie.

Audiences, for the most part, accept all types of movies and genre's. Entertainment can come in many forms and with event movies like Batman V Superman, it's the spectacle. It's the build. It's the experience through and through that audiences enjoy the most with these types of movies. That's why summer blockbuster season is a much higher barometer of popcorn audiences. But not all of them seek the same thing.

There's no gurantee how audiences will react, but a movie like BvS, especially in the superhero genre, was made in a certain tone and wanted to tell a difference story. Snyder challenges the audience's and doesn't let them off the hook just because the competitor is spitting out gumball after gumball. In most cases, studios challenge to be different and that's the situation DC is in and it's working.

There's no telling what level of "entertainment" the audience left with BvS; but the movie is leaving some type of impression and that's entertaining in itself. Some people seek the rush of these big tent pole movies more than anything. The response is another beast in itself, but there's only one thing proven: people keep goin back for more.


Sorry, but you are simply in denial. BvS was a bomb with critics and mixed reviews from fans. From what I understand it took at least $250 million just to make, not including promo and all that stuff...I believe I read someone at WB said it would take at least one billion dollars for them to think of it as a success. From the way it looks right now, they may barely break even....on a very mediocre movie that sold via the title alone, and not by how good the movie is.

IMO, the future of the DC movies probably rests on how well Wonder Woman does. If they don't get that story right and it bombs the way BvS did and it doesn't make good money, I would think WB backs off of the whole concept of doing a shared universe....and they have a history of doing that. At the very least, I would think Snyder gets replaced as being supervisor of their "sandbox", or whatever his version of Feige's role is.

BvS should have been better. You can't "reinvent" good story telling. You either tell a good story or you don't. Tone doesn't matter - at all. How dark the shots are doesn't matter much. How big the fanfare is doesn't matter either. How the story is told does. Marvel gets that, they understand that...so does Disney in general. Yeah, they have a few average movies but it is not the general rule....and frankly, I don't think their average movies are as bad as you all write them off to be.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:07 am

I would think WB backs off of the whole concept of doing a shared universe...


WB won't back off of anything. The shared Universe is in full effect.

and they have a history of doing that.


They already broke their own course of history. They never attempted a shared Universe with DC characters before that got off the ground. The only attempt was Green Lantern. That was a true failure. WB/DC already has Man of Steel and Batman V Superman under their belt with Suicide Squad on the way and Wonder Woman finished. Justice League begins production in a few weeks. That puts this shared Universe already at 4 finished movies with another to begin shooting that will set up even more solo movies and part two of their Justice League saga.

At the very least, I would think Snyder gets replaced as being supervisor of their "sandbox", or whatever his version of Feige's role is.


But do you really know what WB has a history of? Backing Zack Snyder, regardless of his divisive movies. Not only did they show him the Ferrari, they gave him the keys and the haters can't stand it. They've handed him the Dawn of the Dead remake, Watchmen (which was said to be an impossibility) 300 (another sacred comic book property) a Superman reboot, the first meeting ever between Batman and Superman and the first ever assemble of the iconic Justice League; let alone being the overseer of DC's first shared universe. The only people that are in denial, is refusing to believe that. Zack Snyder is WB's golden boy and he's doing just fine and so will the fans.


Tone doesn't matter - at all. How dark the shots are doesn't matter much. How big the fanfare is doesn't matter either. How the story is told does.


Disagree. Things like tone do matter because it is an extension of storytelling you are speak of. The tone of a scene is meant to control a person into feeling a certain way about what is being told on the screen. Tone convey's emotion and situation that allows the audience to interpret what they are interpretating in their own way. Tone essentially is the key to what the director is going for in storytelling. Another way of storytelling is visual, and we ALL know Zack Snyder is a visual storyteller and he can set up the next action scene like nobody else's business. If you read reviews, it's not necessarily the story that the critics or fans are complaining about. It's tone (dark; brooding; joyless) editing and pacing. Everybody seems to completely discount acting as storytelling as well. Everybody is agreeing on that the acting involved in BvS is phenomenal across the board and it's the actor's job to convey story telling in their performances, so you're off the mark. There's no one way to tell a story.

Oh and if you don't believe me, there was a massive video that was released just last year that went viral. People went NUTS over it. It was titled "This is what Man of Steel would of looked like in a brighter tone" (paraphrasing.) All the video editor did was spike up the lighting effects and offer colorful contrasting and the specific scenes in the movie were automatically different feeling...because the tone was different.

Marvel gets that, they understand that...so does Disney in general. Yeah, they have a few average movies but it is not the general rule....and frankly, I don't think their average movies are as bad as you all write them off to be.


Fap, fappity, fap fap fap. There's where the denial comes in. Marvel; Disney has made bad movies and yes, some are as bad as they are written to be. But don't tell anybody that or LOOK OUT.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby verslibre » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:08 am

Monker wrote:BvS should have been better.


When did you see it?
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:37 am

He has no interest in it remember? So it's all like...other people's words and stuff.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:51 am

On a more fun note...better luck next time, Bros :lol:

SUPERMAN tops USA Today's Superhero Bracket

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movi ... /82387278/
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby RedWingFan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:13 am

Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby RedWingFan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:27 am

Critics at 29%
Audience down to 71%
Awful #s
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby verslibre » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:32 am

I never cared what the "critics" think.

The critics bukkake'd each other over that new Star Wars movie, right? :lol:
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:42 am

It really doesn't matter.

For instance, really liked the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and had a blast in the theaters, regardless of what the critics had to say. The Turtle's finished at 21% and an audience score of 51% and I never even noticed.

Bring on Out of the Shadows! It's really wasted energy when these movies are going to get made anyway. The fans who do like it win in the end. :lol:
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:56 am

verslibre wrote:
Monker wrote:BvS should have been better.


When did you see it?


Didn't see it. Don't need to see it to know it should have been better.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:00 pm

YoungJRNYfan wrote:It really doesn't matter.

For instance, really liked the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and had a blast in the theaters, regardless of what the critics had to say. The Turtle's finished at 21% and an audience score of 51% and I never even noticed.

Bring on Out of the Shadows! It's really wasted energy when these movies are going to get made anyway. The fans who do like it win in the end. :lol:


It does matter, and there is a difference, if WB will be disappointed if it doesn't get a billion dollars gross.

Funny how BvS has to sell as well as SW:TFA for the studio to be satisfied.

If WB can't make money off of these films, they have very little incentive to make more.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby verslibre » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:09 pm

Monker wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Monker wrote:BvS should have been better.


When did you see it?


Didn't see it. Don't need to see it to know it should have been better.


Dumb reason to not see it. I thought you weren't a bandwagon-jumper-on. :wink:

I'll hand it over to Kev.

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/kevin-smith-found-heart-batman-181946477.html

"I'd said the film didn't have any heart, but after the second viewing, I actually found the heart in #batmanvsuperman: it's in the viewer. And the viewer I watched the blockbuster with the second time was all agog, eyes as big as saucers. During the Knightmare sequence, we shared a moment that even elevated the flick for me: when the winged New Gods nasties attack #Batman and take him down, Jay (age 40) & I (age 45) simultaneously looked at one another and whispered reverently "ParaDemons." It was a beautiful moment shared by two lifelong fanboys who were delighted to see their childhood flash before their eyes."
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:29 pm

Ah, so you believe in the Goebbels way of selling movie tickets...You know, if you buy tickets and see the movie over and over again, eventually you'll believe you like it.

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby RedWingFan » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:54 pm

YoungJRNYfan wrote:It really doesn't matter.

Don't be so sure. Didn't Batman & Robin do well at the box office? Making bank Didn't save Batman from getting killed theatrically for years because it was critically panned.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:08 pm

RedWingFan wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote:It really doesn't matter.

Don't be so sure. Didn't Batman & Robin do well at the box office? Making bank Didn't save Batman from getting killed theatrically for years because it was critically panned.

B&R, from what I recall, disappointed domestically, but did okay overseas. The backlash to that movie was strange, because Schumacher's Batman Forever is arguably just as cornball and camp.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:30 pm

RedWingFan wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote:It really doesn't matter.

Don't be so sure. Didn't Batman & Robin do well at the box office? Making bank Didn't save Batman from getting killed theatrically for years because it was critically panned.



Batman and Robin cost over a $100 mil to make and if I remember right barely broke even. I know it was the lowest grossing Batman flick.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:32 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote:It really doesn't matter.

Don't be so sure. Didn't Batman & Robin do well at the box office? Making bank Didn't save Batman from getting killed theatrically for years because it was critically panned.

B&R, from what I recall, disappointed domestically, but did okay overseas. The backlash to that movie was strange, because Schumacher's Batman Forever is arguably just as cornball and camp.


BAtman Forever was corny, but at least it stayed closer to Batman than B&R. I thought the suit Kilmer wore in the first part of the movie was the best suit up until now.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:44 pm

Monker wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote:It really doesn't matter.

For instance, really liked the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and had a blast in the theaters, regardless of what the critics had to say. The Turtle's finished at 21% and an audience score of 51% and I never even noticed.

Bring on Out of the Shadows! It's really wasted energy when these movies are going to get made anyway. The fans who do like it win in the end. :lol:


It does matter, and there is a difference, if WB will be disappointed if it doesn't get a billion dollars gross.



Yea they will. It could make 999 mil and they would be disappointed. WB is looking for a cash cow, all the studio's are.

Personally, I thought the movie was very good. a few little issues here and there, but it was nothing to take away from the movie. My whole family saw it and really liked to loved it. Yes there were pacing issues at the start for one of them and another found the dreams distracting. But what everyone liked was how it made you think afterwards. We are still talking about parts of the movie...

1) The "god" complex and would people really be like that to someone with power like that
2) How the USA government react, cover up, explain it as a different situation, would they go after him, except him, etc...
3) would rest of the world take it out on the USA for having an alien like that.
4) Batman being hardened and changing his out look at end of film.

There were more too, but we never came out of a Marvel movie talking about things like that. That is not a hit on Marvel either, they make different movies.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:58 pm

Just to show how I grade the Marvel Movies

Fantastic 4 C+
Fantastic 4 ROTSS D+
Fantastic 4 reboot F

Blade B
Blade 2 A=
Blade 3 D

Punisher 80's F
Punisher B-
Punisher 2 B

Daredevil (dir cut) B
Elektra C-

Spiderman A-
Spiderman 2 A+
Spiderman 3 B-
Amz Spiderman C-
Amz Spiderman 2 D-

Captain America B
Captain America 2 A

Ironman A-
Ironman 2 C
Ironman 3 C+

Thor D+
Thor 2 C

Ghost Rider D+
Ghost Rider 2 C-

Hulk B-
Hulk 2 B

X-men B+
X-men 2 A
X-men First Class C-
X-men Days of future B

Wolverine Orgins C+
The Wolverine A-

Antman B

Averngers A+
Averngers 2 B

Guardians of the Galaxy B

I own all of these movies and have watched them all at least 2 or 3 times. So I feel I can say if I like them or not. Marvel has had some really good movies B+ or higher, some crappy ones C- or lower, but for the most part they are good, but nothing to shout about.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:34 am

As for DC...........the movies I have are

Superman and mole men C+
Superman A-
Superman 2 B+
Superman 2 Donner Cut A-
Superman 3 C-
Superman 4 D-
Superman Returns B
Man of Steel B+

Batman (66) B-
Batman (89) A-
Batman Returns B-
Batman Forever C
Batman Robin D
Batman Begins A-
Dark Knight A+
Dark Knight 2 B
BatVSuperman A-

Swamp Thing C
Swamp Thing 2 F

Steel F

Catwoman F

Constantine B-

V for Vend. B-

Watchmen B+

Jonah Hex C-

Green Lantern D+

The Losers B-

Supergirl D
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:49 am

Over all I think Marvel has had a better run of movies than DC. The thing that has helped Marvel is they put someone in charge to help put everything together. DC has too, and I think he will do a good job. With BVS they put a lot on the table for people to take in. They also set their tone different, both of which I like a lot. I do not want DC to be like MArvel. Personally I would like for DC to lighten up a little and for Marvel to calm the comedy down a little. I think they both could do this and still make their movies different.
Zach is a comic nerd, so I think he will lead DC in the right path, and once we start seeing the different directors take over we will see a better wide view of DC.

Their have been many Marvel movies I thought were ok and a few bad, just like DC. One of things I like about the DC movies is that they are not afraid to shake things up. Marvel movies have become repetitive. I remember when I looked forward to there movies. I did not even Antman in the theater, wish I had of, it was better than what I was expecting. I want to see the new Cap movie, but I am not hyped about it, maybe as it get closer to release date. I am a lot more hyped about Suicide Squad, just because it looks different.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

Postby Abitaman » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:33 am

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