President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Monker]

That's also ridiculous. First of all, I said "it may be..." It may be, it may not be...I was simply conceding that point to get to the fact that having a personal server was perfectly within bounds when she did it. It was only "an incredibly stupid thing to do" because it was unprecedented and she mixed personal and private Emails when she knew she would eventually have to turn them in.

Your such a waffler. Pick a stance and stick with it. It was an idiotic decision from the get go.

Ok, so it's an "idiotic decision from the get go". That doesn't make it illegal. It doesn't mean she's going to be indicted, or go to jail. THAT is my point. It is irrelevant.

[Monker]

Trump's shady business venture as a private citizen is somehow comparable to circumventing the FOIA

He made a stupid decision. She made a stupid decision. If that's what it comes down to, then Trump should be disqualified multiple times over for stupid decisions in the past, and during the campaign itself.

Did Iran/Contra disqualify Bush?

Yes.

Well, obviously history disagrees with you or we would have seen a President Dukakis.

Did "Mission Accomplished" disqualify W?

Yes.

Again, we didn't see a President Kerry....so you're wrong.

So in order to exonerate Hillary you have to resort to listing other Presidential misdeeds?

I don't have to do it. Nobody does. The FBI has to find enough evidence to bring her to trial. THE FBI...not some commentator for FOX or CNN or whoever.

You also said her emails were retroactively classified which is just as big of a lie as saying that Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice had private servers (they didn't). Both claims were used by Clinton, debunked, and repeated brainlessly by you.

I did not say a thing about Rice/Powel having their own server. I believe Powerl did, however, use his personal Email for business. Not sure about Rice...and it really doesn't matter.

[Monker]

The reason Hillary's aides were questioned.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/05/ ... -aide.html

No need to read it. Monker already explained to us that the Republicans forced Hillary's aides to be interviewed. And that the FBI is just doing the bidding of Karl Rove or, err, something. Oh, and the investigation is over. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Come on, it's an investigation...of course they are going to question her aids. They will question Clinton too, probably both of them. So what? It doesn't mean anything other than it's coming close to an end.

I read about two paragraphs of that article and it's OBVIOUS that he is taking his own biased opinion and trying to "prove" it as fact. That is the problem with almost all of this stuff you guys read and post...it's not based in reality, it's based on what the writer WANTS to be reality.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He made a stupid decision. She made a stupid decision. If that's what it comes down to, then Trump should be disqualified multiple times over for stupid decisions in the past, and during the campaign itself.

Aside from swindling idiots from their student loan money, Trump did not in any way compromise national security with Trump University. No comparison. There are degrees of "stupid decisions" and this does not come close to flaunting federal law and putting a server in a basement. You know this. But like all Hillary supporters, you must rely on generalizations because you are incapable of defending specific actions.

Well, obviously history disagrees with you or we would have seen a President Dukakis.

No, history only shows that Reagan won re-election. Reagan was also able to play dumb and let fall guys, like Olilie North, take the rap. There is no such avenue for Hillary. She was briefed by agencies on the rules and deliberately broke them. She probably opted to wipe her server only after printing her emails and having Sandy Berger shove them into his pants.

Again, we didn't see a President Kerry....so you're wrong.

No, you're TOTALLY wrong. If you don't think the passage of history disqualified George W. Bush and by extension, the Bush legacy, I would suggest that you go talk to Jeb Bush. On top of that, other countries found Dubya, Rumsfeld, and Cheney guilty of war crimes. They are still afraid of flying outside of the US and Bush Jr. still ranks up their with the worst US Presidents of all time. So, all in all, history vindicated voters like me.

Also, Obama did not pursue any legal action against the former administration due to fears of appearing partisan. So he gave Bush a pass and, in effect, he condoned their criminality. Obama did the same thing with the banks. As a counter example of what a REAL leader would do see FDR's Pecora Commission into Wall St. fraud after The Great Depression.

Say what you want about the Repubs, but at least they have the will to look into wrongdoing, even if it does have the appearance of being politically motivated.

I don't have to do it. Nobody does. The FBI has to find enough evidence to bring her to trial. THE FBI...not some commentator for FOX or CNN or whoever.

Bullshit. That's all you do on this forum is make excuses for Hillary by throwing up red herrings like Trump University. You have been doing it since the election began. Just like the Republicans at their worst, you are more concerned with winning than what's right or wrong.

I did not say a thing about Rice/Powel having their own server. I believe Powerl did, however, use his personal Email for business. Not sure about Rice...and it really doesn't matter.

Hillary said her "predecessors did the same thing with emails." That is a TOTAL lie. Can anyone imagine Powell demanding the NSA to build a custom Blackberry for him, like Hillary did? This wench is out of her gourd. And you DID say that her emails were retroactively classified. Which is only true about a very small percentage. So you are either misled or lying. I don't think you care either way. You like corrupt politicians just as long as they have a D next to their name.

Final word - vote clean government, vote against dynastic monarchies, vote against war-mongering, and vote Bernie! It will take a poor socialist Jew to make capitalism work for everyone!

[Boomchild]

Ok, so it's an "idiotic decision from the get go". That doesn't make it illegal. It doesn't mean she's going to be indicted, or go to jail. THAT is my point. It is irrelevant.

Of course it's relevant. How someone handles sensitive governmental communications as SOS is important. The fact that she didn't think that through or did it for other reasons puts into question her decision making. Something doesn't need to be illegal to be damaging.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Here in KC last month, a large "University" like Trumps, Wright University, closed one week before graduation. The credits earned by students are worthless. Things like this happen all the time. It isn't right, but happen. But to me, it doesn't hold a candle to treason for personal gain.

Yup. Unaccredited BS schools shutter their doors all the time. It is up to the consumer (the student) to do their own research. The Dept. of Education can shut some of these shady places down too.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Hillary received more money from Wall Street than all other candidates combined in the last fundraising period.
But remember, as she said endlessly during the debates, she told Wall Street to "Cut It Out!"

What a fraud. I will get soo drunk when she loses on election night. Can't wait!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/financial-s ... 1462750725

[Monker]

He made a stupid decision. She made a stupid decision. If that's what it comes down to, then Trump should be disqualified multiple times over for stupid decisions in the past, and during the campaign itself.

Aside from swindling idiots from their student loan money, Trump did not in any way compromise national security with Trump University. No comparison. There are degrees of "stupid decisions" and this does not come close to flaunting federal law and putting a server in a basement. You know this. But like all Hillary supporters, you must rely on generalizations because you are incapable of defending specific actions.

Oh, please. Starting Trump University was a stupid decision. Trump Steaks was a stupid decision. His war of words with Megyn Kelly was a stupid decision. Calling Mexicans rapists was a stupid deicision. Telling people at his rallies to "punch him the face" is a stupid decision. "Stupid decision" and "Trump" are synonymous.

Well, obviously history disagrees with you or we would have seen a President Dukakis.

No, history only shows that Reagan won re-election. Reagan was also able to play dumb and let fall guys, like Olilie North, take the rap. There is no such avenue for Hillary. She was briefed by agencies on the rules and deliberately broke them. She probably opted to wipe her server only after printing her emails and having Sandy Berger shove them into his pants.

First of all, I said it didn't disqualify Bush....I did not say Reagan. Reagan ran against Mondale, not Dukakis.

Iran/Contra did not disqualify either Bush or Reagan. They both were allowed to run...Reagan won his reelection, and Bush beat Dukakis. Stupidity does not disqualify anybody from running for President. W proves that.

Again, we didn't see a President Kerry....so you're wrong.

No, you're TOTALLY wrong. If you don't think the passage of history disqualified George W. Bush and by extension, the Bush legacy, I would suggest that you go talk to Jeb Bush. On top of that, other countries found Dubya, Rumsfeld, and Cheney guilty of war crimes. They are still afraid of flying outside of the US and Bush Jr. still ranks up their with the worst US Presidents of all time. So, all in all, history vindicated voters like me.

Again, W was not disqualified. He ran for reelection and beat Kerry. If stupidity should have disqualified anybody, it should have been W. But, it didn't.

The voters will decide if what Clinton did was a big enough deal to not vote for her. I believe that most people simply don't care about it one iota.

Say what you want about the Repubs, but at least they have the will to look into wrongdoing, even if it does have the appearance of being politically motivated.

It's always politically motivated....on both sides.

[/quote]

I don't have to do it. Nobody does. The FBI has to find enough evidence to bring her to trial. THE FBI...not some commentator for FOX or CNN or whoever.

Bullshit. That's all you do on this forum is make excuses for Hillary by throwing up red herrings like Trump University. You have been doing it since the election began. Just like the Republicans at their worst, you are more concerned with winning than what's right or wrong. [/quote]

You are simply pulling shit out of your ass. I have said from the beginning that Hillary will win. I say if she was going to be indicted, it would have happened at least a year ago. Those who believe anything will come out of this investigation are living in some type of fantasy.

I did not say a thing about Rice/Powel having their own server. I believe Powerl did, however, use his personal Email for business. Not sure about Rice...and it really doesn't matter.

Hillary said her "predecessors did the same thing with emails." [/quote]

*I* didn't say it. You are so frazzled by the fact that Hillary is going to be our next President that you are inventing things.

[The_Noble_Cause]

*I* didn't say it. You are so frazzled by the fact that Hillary is going to be our next President that you are inventing things.

You must think that clearing your cache deletes all of your lies. I don't know if Andrew keeps his server in his basement, but your duplicitous posts are archived for infinity. See below.

That's just not true. She had permission to use it.

Clinton did not do this - at all. She's not even accused of it.
What you just said above is "retroactively classified". Whether you like it or not, that means that Clinton can make the argument that she did not send nor receive any Email's marked "classified".

BOTH wrong. BOTH lies. And BOTH spoken like a true fawning Hillary sycophant who has NO regard for truth or country. Keep spinning, Soros meat puppet.

[ohsherrie]

HILLARY CLINTON EMAIL CONTROVERSY

41m

Report: FBI interviews Hillary Clinton aides, including Huma Abedin, as part of email probe, officials tell CNN
read more on http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/ ... index.html


----------------------------------------

Huma Abedin has been interviewed by the FBI, CNN reports. Other aides to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have been contacted by the FBI as well.

Abedin has long been considered Clinton's closest aide.

Interestingly, just days ago Hillary Clinton said that none of her aides have been interviewed by the FBI. Clinton made that claim in an interview with MSNBC.

You all better start worrying about the Republican party falling apart....by the time the election happens, there won't even be a party due to all of the conservatives abandoning Trump and maybe even starting a third party. The party is so screwed.

I hope you're right. To most Trump supporters party affiliation is irrelevant and there's nothing I'd like better than to see both parties dissolved.

Next step, term limits for congress.

[Boomchild]

Calling Mexicans rapists was a stupid deicision.

Sorry but that is not exactly what he said. He was speaking in terms of Mexican illegals crossing the U.S. border. He wasn't labeling the entire Mexican people rapists. What he said when referring to illegals crossing the border is that some are rapists, some are criminals and some are "good people". At any rate, Mexico is not sending their best across the border illegally. The mere FACT that they are entering the country illegally automatically makes them a criminal. Regardless of what their intentions for doing so are. It is not the responsibility for the U.S. to take on the economic problems of Mexico. Furthermore, as this article below points out, a whopping 80% of women and girls crossing from Central America into the U.S. are raped along the way. So, Trump is not off from the mark in his statements. Liberals would like to believe that this exodus from Mexico is a neat, orderly and peaceful trek into "the land of milk and honey". But that is far from the truth.

80% Of Central American Women, Girls Are Raped Crossing Into The U.S.

According to a stunning Fusion investigation, 80 percent of women and girls crossing into the U.S. by way of Mexico are raped during their journey. That’s up from a previous estimate of 60 percent, according to an Amnesty International report.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/1 ... 06972.html

[Monker]

I hope you're right. To most Trump supporters party affiliation is irrelevant and there's nothing I'd like better than to see both parties dissolved.

Next step, term limits for congress.

What I hear is Paul Ryan saying he would step down as chairman, if Trump asks him to. And, Trump saying party unity doesn't really matter.

So, if it splits, you will have one party of 'Tea Party" conservatives, and another of traditional Republican far right conservatives.

What I do not see is the Democrats having any issues at all. If anything Sanders has helped the Democrats draw in people. He has not fed into the attitudes that would spit the party, as Trump has.

So, you'll end up with Democrats dominating politics for at least a decade.

[The_Noble_Cause]

What I do not see is the Democrats having any issues at all.

Hillary lost the youth vote in every race so far, sometimes by as much as 80%. She is under investigation by the FBI. She has negatives equal to Trump. Her campaign has utilized fake Twitter followers and other forms of astro-turf to compensate for an appreciable lack of grassroots enthusiasm. She is the preordained choice of The Establishment in a year where The Establishment no longer makes the rules or controls the narrative. She is easily the weakest Democratic candidate to be nominated since Humphrey. Maybe worse. You may not see it, but the old hag has more "issues" than Playboy magazine.

[Monker]

What I do not see is the Democrats having any issues at all.

Hillary lost the youth vote in every race so far, sometimes by as much as 80%. She is under investigation by the FBI. She has negatives equal to Trump. Her campaign has utilized fake Twitter followers and other forms of astro-turf to compensate for an appreciable lack of grassroots enthusiasm. She is the preordained choice of The Establishment in a year where The Establishment no longer makes the rules or controls the narrative. She is easily the weakest Democratic candidate to be nominated since Humphrey. Maybe worse. You may not see it, but the old hag has more "issues" than Playboy magazine.

And, yet she will still be the Democrat nominee and will beat Trump in a landslide...the last Clinton vs. Trump poll I saw had Clinton beating him by over 10pts. He has about as much chance at winning the election as Bernie has right now of winning the nomination.

I was saying that regardless of any issues in the Democratic party, there is not such a split that leaders are saying they can not support Clinton, or Sanders. There are not Democrat governess saying they may not vote. The Democrats are not scrambling with meetings to get the DNC aligned with Clinton/Sanders. There are not a dozen prominent Democrats refusing the Vice President position before they are even asked.

In the end, for the Democrats you will Sanders being a gracious loser and being happy that he has an influence over the platform. He'll throw his support to Clinton because he will say Trump would destroy the country. And, you'll have Clinton throwing olive branches out to Sanders and his supporters, which she has already started doing.

You will not see that type of reconciliation on the Republican side. Too many people have already said they will boycott the convention. Trump doesn't even seem to care much about uniting the party.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And, yet she will still be the Democrat nominee and will beat Trump in a landslide...the last Clinton vs. Trump poll I saw had Clinton beating him by over 10pts. He has about as much chance at winning the election as Bernie has right now of winning the nomination.

Who the hell cares? All you do is talk about "winning" and the horse race aspect of the election. Every damning piece of evidence that comes out against her you respond with "She is going to win." You are downright ghoulish, man.

As for Bernie...looks like he is about to kick The Cackling Canckle's ass in West Virginia today. Hillary should have the Democratic constituencies all sewn up by now.

In the end, for the Democrats you will Sanders being a gracious loser and being happy that he has an influence over the platform. He'll throw his support to Clinton because he will say Trump would destroy the country.

The only thing less likely than Sanders endorsing Clinton is Sander's supporters going to vote for her.

And, you'll have Clinton throwing olive branches out to Sanders and his supporters, which she has already started doing.

She's been doing it since Iowa when she called the election for herself. She keeps trying to pivot to general election mode and she keeps losing primaries. As already mentioned, Hillary raised more money from Wall Street than any other candidate in the last fund raising period. Bernie voters are not stupid and they will not vote for someone on the take.

[tj]

What I do not see is the Democrats having any issues at all.

Hillary lost the youth vote in every race so far, sometimes by as much as 80%. She is under investigation by the FBI. She has negatives equal to Trump. Her campaign has utilized fake Twitter followers and other forms of astro-turf to compensate for an appreciable lack of grassroots enthusiasm. She is the preordained choice of The Establishment in a year where The Establishment no longer makes the rules or controls the narrative. She is easily the weakest Democratic candidate to be nominated since Humphrey. Maybe worse. You may not see it, but the old hag has more "issues" than Playboy magazine.

And, yet she will still be the Democrat nominee and will beat Trump in a landslide...the last Clinton vs. Trump poll I saw had Clinton beating him by over 10pts. He has about as much chance at winning the election as Bernie has right now of winning the nomination.

I was saying that regardless of any issues in the Democratic party, there is not such a split that leaders are saying they can not support Clinton, or Sanders. There are not Democrat governess saying they may not vote. The Democrats are not scrambling with meetings to get the DNC aligned with Clinton/Sanders. There are not a dozen prominent Democrats refusing the Vice President position before they are even asked.

In the end, for the Democrats you will Sanders being a gracious loser and being happy that he has an influence over the platform. He'll throw his support to Clinton because he will say Trump would destroy the country. And, you'll have Clinton throwing olive branches out to Sanders and his supporters, which she has already started doing.

You will not see that type of reconciliation on the Republican side. Too many people have already said they will boycott the convention. Trump doesn't even seem to care much about uniting the party.

Carter was up over Reagan by greater numbers. Dukakis was up over Bush by greater numbers. And those were "traditional" contests. Both Trump and Hillary are in uncharted territory. She, as a woman and former first lady with an enormous amount of baggage. Him with no previous campaign, not supposed to have won a single primary, and really really bad hair. It could go either way.

[Monker]

As for Bernie...looks like he is about to kick The Cackling Canckle's ass in West Virginia today. Hillary should have the Democratic constituencies all sewn up by now.

Funny how Clinton is going to win this race in the same way Obama beat her, and Bernie will lose in the same way Clinton lost to Obama. Seems she learned something.

The only thing less likely than Sanders endorsing Clinton is Sander's supporters going to vote for her.

The same things were said 8yrs ago.

And, you'll have Clinton throwing olive branches out to Sanders and his supporters, which she has already started doing.

She's been doing it since Iowa when she called the election for herself. She keeps trying to pivot to general election mode and she keeps losing primaries.

The only hope for Bernie is if Super Delegates move towards him, which is unlikely. Bernie is done and playing for the convention.

As already mentioned, Hillary raised more money from Wall Street than any other candidate in the last fund raising period. Bernie voters are not stupid and they will not vote for someone on the take.

Not enough people care for it to make a difference.

As Trump keeps opening his mouth and saying stupid things, and the election becomes more serious, more and more people will see how absolutely ignorant and dangerous Trump is.

Wonder how Sluc feels about Trumps latest solution and backtracking and reexplaining and then changing again, for the economy and debt. Ah, just print more money...the President can order that, right? geez. He has no idea what he is doing or how to talk about any real policy issue - at all.

[steveo777]

The Military prefers Trump over Hillary 2-1.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/mili ... /84132402/

[Boomchild]

Carter was up over Reagan by greater numbers. Dukakis was up over Bush by greater numbers. And those were "traditional" contests. Both Trump and Hillary are in uncharted territory. She, as a woman and former first lady with an enormous amount of baggage. Him with no previous campaign, not supposed to have won a single primary, and really really bad hair. It could go either way.

I agree. Look how many times the political analysts and talking heads were saying "it's over for Trump" only to be proven flat wrong. They were so sure that the Republicans were going to have a contested convention. Yet here we are with Trump being the presumptive nominee. As far as the poles go, I think it's to early to tell. After all, Trump has yet to really lay into Hillary and they haven't had any face to face debates. For me, one thing that seems to be clear is that there is a large sector of the public that is fed up with establishment career politicians. Hillary, certainly falls into that category. Trump better double up on his security and wear two bullet proof vests since we know what seems to happen to enemies of the Clintons.

[Boomchild]

[tj]

For me, one thing that seems to be clear is that there is a large sector of the public that is fed up with establishment career politicians. .

This is the key. The Republicans who have been kicking out Eric Cantor, John Boehner, etc. for not doing what Republicans elected them to do are taking Trump's side. Rightly or wrongly, they feel like electing the same old people as in the past from the same machine didn't work, so let's blow the whole thing up.

Democrats saw what they got with Hope and Change Obama. More of the same, only worse, in terms of political divisiveness. The people in the country who really need help - the poor and middle class - keep falling behind. Sanders is doing so well, and Trump too, because they are playing to those frustrations. Whether either would be good for the country and the poor/middle class is another story. Sort of like Jerry Brown in California admitting that raising the minumum wage to $15 isn't very good economics, but sure is good politics.

[JBlake]

Wow, Trump on the Oprah show back in 88'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

[JBlake]

Wow, Trump on the Oprah show back in 88'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

This one is really good but 27 minutes long, it includes some of the Oprah show you posted. Lots of people need to see this IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxf1XmVZ9qY

Yeah I saw that one too. But I couldn't sit through it because the music sucks so badly. Why couldn't they have made that without the music bit?

[Boomchild]

Hillary Clinton nets big bucks from Justice Dept. employees during server investigation

The FBI’s investigation into the “secret server” Hillary Clinton used as President Obama’s top diplomat has not halted political contributions from the very department that may be tasked with her prosecution.

Donations from Department of Justice employees to the former secretary of state have dwarfed those made to her political opponents. Mrs. Clinton hauled in $73,437 thus far during the 2016 presidential cycle, compared to $8,900 for Vermont Sen. Bernard Sanders and $381 for Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ce-dept-e/

[Boomchild]

People are trying to make us believe that we don't have an issue with the level of immigration into this country. Here is an eye opener for them.

Bombshell Report: Immigrants Use Far More Welfare Than Citizens

A bombshell new report by the Center for Immigration Studies revealed that both legal and illegal immigrants use more welfare benefits than native households.

Specifically, in 2012, immigrants consumed $6,234 in federal welfare benefits per household, whereas natives consumed only $4,431, CIS reported.



http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/b ... n-citizens

[The_Noble_Cause]

Funny how Clinton is going to win this race in the same way Obama beat her, and Bernie will lose in the same way Clinton lost to Obama. Seems she learned something.

No comparison. The DNC rigged this election in Hillary’s favor and she still can’t clinch it. She’s turned a veritable cakewalk into stumbling on the lily pads at the local water park. She sucks!

The same things were said 8yrs ago.

Except Obama was ALWAYS a corporate-minted Democrat and a part of the Chicago Democratic Machine. Bernie is an outsider and always has been.

The only hope for Bernie is if Super Delegates move towards him, which is unlikely. Bernie is done and playing for the convention.

Sanders just won two primaries in a row and Hillary is spending money on TV advertising again. Keep telling yourself that dude.

Ah, just print more money...the President can order that, right? geez. He has no idea what he is doing or how to talk about any real policy issue - at all.

The President nominates the Fed who controls/increases the money supply. So, basically, yea. Trump is right and once again, sounds more like a Keynesian than most Dems.

[Boomchild]

By Adam Kredo — The Washington Free Beacon - - Friday, April 4, 2014
The State Department misplaced and lost some $6 billion due to the improper filing of contracts during the past six years, mainly during the tenure of former Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, according to a newly released Inspector General report.

Oh sure, "lost". Seeing how long our government has been in existence, surely this kind of "record keeping" should be old hat by now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

So FBI Director Comey did a press comference today and he sounded like Hillary just might be in bIg trouble.

First he sad that "contrary to Hillarys claims, the FBI was NOT conducting a security review, as Clinton has repeatedly said. We are conducting an investigation, that's what we do."

Second a reporter asked about 2 sets of rules for some and Comey responded, "There are people in jail for less than is accused here, most of us would be in jail, is there 2 sets of rules? He promised America there is not."

Comey is going to be soooo pissed when he finds out Monker knew Hillary "had permission" to use a private server and Monker didn't bother clueing in the FBI.

Hillary is counting on Obama to pardon her. Her and cop killer, Mummia. Probably Madoff too.

[Boomchild]

Hillary is counting on Obama to pardon her. Her and cop killer, Mummia. Probably Madoff too.

If she is charged, I wonder if "the wheels of justice" will move fast enough on the case to convict her this year? If not, then Obama wouldn't be able to save her.

[tj]

Hillary is counting on Obama to pardon her. Her and cop killer, Mummia. Probably Madoff too.

If she is charged, I wonder if "the wheels of justice" will move fast enough on the case to convict her this year? If not, then Obama wouldn't be able to save her.

I believe that he can pardon for crimes commited whether charged yet or not. I am not sure he would want to tarnish his legacy by pardoning her regardless. He doesn't gain by doing it and stands to have his name linked to condoning her foolishness for all of history if he does.