President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 18, 2016 1:44 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Kentucky results...

Hillary 46.7%
Bernie 46.3 %

What a squeaker!

Very weak showing from the presumptive nominee.
With all her corporate money, name recognition, and DNC backers, she should have this all wrapped up.

Up next, Oregon!

Independents were not allowed to vote in this election.


Yea I know. Other sources are saying Kentucky is still close too call. Oregon has been called for Bernie. Really a humiliating night for Hillary. She keeps trying to pivot to the general election, but nobody is interested. Trump would kick her ass badly.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 1:56 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:Well, this is actually a good, well thought out post, good job tj.

TJ, listen to how this guy patronizes you. Don't put up with that shit. Monker thinks he's the smartest guy in the room (typical liberal) when he is actually dumber than dog shit.

Hey Monker, WHERE is the link to this email proving that Hillary had permission to use a private server?
The Federal Records Act requires that all personal emails be forwarded to the State Department’s official records system. Instead of forwarding emails, Hillary had the server wiped clean.

For that matter, WHERE is your proof that Hillary Clinton did not receive the standard briefing on handling sensitive material?

The people want to know Monker and demand answers!!!!!

YOU. ARE. A. FUCKING. LIAR.


You've gone loopy.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 2:06 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Monker's growing litany of lies for her royal majesty, The Queen


Actually, this is crap and YOU are making shit up.

1. "Hillary had permission to use a private server. I read it in, uhh, some email. I swear!"


Well, that's true, I did read it. You can believe me, or not. That's your choice.

2. "Colin Powell did it too!"


I absolutely NEVER SAID Colin Powel had his own server. Prove me wrong.

3. "All of Hillary's emails were classified after the fact."


Yep, I said that. Your only rebuttal to that has been the "super top secret", or whatever, classification that some topics have.

4."You guys DO remember Edward Snowden, right?"


That's a question, not a lie. All I am saying is the NSA has read each and every Email that anybody has ever sent, including Clinton's. That is simply a fact....and you are incredibly naïve if you don't accept it.

Experts on this matter, like Dan Metcalfe, former director of the Justice Department’s Office of Information and Privacy, do NOT work for FOX News. You lied again saying that Hillary broke no existing rules on the book. Again, total BS. From the State Department’s Foreign Affairs Manual to the Federal Records Act to the FOIA, Hillary circumvented the law. Get over it.


And, she will still be the next President. I wonder if you'll ever get over that.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 2:31 pm

tj wrote:The reality is that we are offered poor choices for candidates to begin with, so it then becomes picking the lesser of the two evils. We are all shaped by our experiences and education, so I am not surprised that many people support Trump, Sanders, Cruz, Hilary, etc. Many truly believe that their candidate will make things better for everyone, and how can the opponents' supporters not see this? They must be stupid, right?

I think that when you pull the emotion away, which is hard to do, especially when you believe that you are poor, disadvantaged, superior in intellect, called to the position of power by God, whatever, people make what they think is the best decision. Facts don't often matter, because even those are disputed (global warming temperatures, unemployment levels, % of homosexuals, take any point and the data can be manipulated to support your position).

Almost none of us have any personal experience with a candidate, so what we know about them is shaped by media reports (traditional and social). We have to make a choice based on what their experience shows that they will do combined with what they say they will do (i.e. Bush1: No new taxes). In the end, we either don't participate by not voting, or choose someone who most closely represents what we believe.

In any case, it is a gamble. The expectation of conservatives in Bush2 was never met. Hope and Change Obama brought change in terms of social policy, but the economy still stinks for millions of Americans. Millions of Americans wish that the focus of change had been in helping them economically, not letting boys in girls bathrooms. Examples go on and on from the Presidential level all the way down to the local dog catcher.

I hope that our two party systems implodes on itself. Trump and Sanders are the best bet to make that happen. It is a lot harder for businesses and individuals to buy off politicians when the people have multiple choices.


Well, the economy today is much better off that it was 8yrs ago, when industries were failing, financial markets collapsed along with most people's retirement savings, and we were bleeding jobs This is not an opinion...it's a fact.

The rest of it, I agree somewhat. But, a candidate should at least have the basic abilities to do the job. Trump has not displayed that at all. In fact, he has shown how unqualified he is via his gaffs...nuclear triad, forcing soldiers to perform torture worse than ISIS, dismantling NATO, South Korea and Japan having nuclear weapons....crazy stuff. He delivers ideas in bombastic ways to get and/or keep the media attention but has no real plan to execute those plans...especially when most require congress to go along with them. By now he should be surrounded by people giving him sound advice and keeping him in the bounds of sanity with policies...but he just doesn't. Talking to North Korea? Doesn't he realize that talking to the enemy was a HUGE critique of the Republicans over the last 8yrs? At least Obama usually had an objective in mind...what is Trump's objective with North Korea? He says these type of things to grandstand, he doesn't think first, and most of the time he comes off like he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Trump doesn't care about debt, he even says he likes it...and if we get close to defaulting on our debt, we can just print more money. Wow, I am amazed that ANY conservative would willingly vote for somebody who speaks those things, even if he doesn't truly believe it.

That's just one of the topics of issue I have with Trump. At least Jeb! knew what he was talking about even if he did have low energy. I would rather have somebody slow and deliberate and making Presidential decisions than somebody who shoots from the hip and doesn't care where the bullets go or who they injure or kill
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 18, 2016 2:38 pm

Monker wrote:Well, that's true, I did read it. You can believe me, or not. That's your choice.

Personally, I don't care what you read. No other news sources back this up. So this "email" you read has as much bearing on the FBI Investigation as the dog eared copy of "The Complete Idiots Guide to Butt Play" sitting on ur night stand.

Monker wrote:I absolutely NEVER SAID Colin Powel had his own server. Prove me wrong.

First, prove yourself RIGHT, dickhead.
You're not in any position to be giving demands. You are the one on here lying with reckless abandon.

So why don't you first prove that...

1) Hillary was granted permission to use a private server
2) That her emails were classified after the fact
3) She broke no laws.

Then maybe we'll talk, kapeesh?

Monker wrote:Yep, I said that. Your only rebuttal to that has been the "super top secret", or whatever, classification that some topics have.

In other words, yep, you lied.
Emails discussing classified locations of drone strikes are, by their very nature, classified.

Monker wrote:That's a question, not a lie. All I am saying is the NSA has read each and every Email that anybody has ever sent, including Clinton's. That is simply a fact....and you are incredibly naïve if you don't accept it.

YAWN. Man, you are really full of yourself, dude. You think you have access to some arcane hidden knowledge concerning these intelligence programs that date back to Operation Mockingbird and beyond. It's old hat and it has ZERO to do with Hillary's attempted end-run around the FOIA. Stop throwing up irrelevant bullshit because you can't give a straight answer defending Hillary's actions.
Monker wrote:And, she will still be the next President. I wonder if you'll ever get over that.

She's losing states she previously won in 2008 to an obscure elderly Jewish senator from a small state. So, no, sorry, she is not winning the general. Better hurry up and enjoy those transgendered bathrooms while you still can, pervert.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 2:40 pm

tj wrote:
Boomchild wrote:
tj wrote:Ross was right on the sucking sound. Bush1 spoke of a "New World Order", which is partly what drove Perot into the race. He foresaw the devastation that NAFTA and other trade agreements would bring if we gave away the store for nothing in return. Had he not entered the race, Clinton wouldn't have beaten Bush1. Had he not dropped out and then re-entered in the summer of '92, I think he would have won and we would be looking at a far different country today.


The one thing that has stuck in my memory about Perot's run for office was his choice for a running mate. That guy was older then dirt and didn't seem to have a clue.



Admiral James Stockdale. He was a POW in Vietnam for 7 years. Perot had a very strong support system for Vietnam POWs during and after the war. In the VP debate, Stockdale started out by asking rhetorically: "Who am I and what am I doing here?" People took it literally as if he had no idea why anyone would consider him for VP. He never recovered.


If you watched that debate, Stockdale looked totally out of touch with his surroundings and had no clue what he was doing. I remember one point where he was given rebuttal and he had no comment. Most of the time when the camera was on him, he looked incredibly confused and nervous. The VP debate, IMO, tanked Perot's comeback.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 2:57 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:Well, that's true, I did read it. You can believe me, or not. That's your choice.

Personally, I don't care what you read. No other news sources back this up. So this "email" you read has as much bearing on the FBI Investigation as the dog eared copy of "The Complete Idiots Guide to Butt Play" sitting on ur night stand.


You obviously do care because you keep going on about it. You care very deeply.

Monker wrote:I absolutely NEVER SAID Colin Powel had his own server. Prove me wrong.

First, prove yourself RIGHT, dickhead. [/quote]

You're the one who called a liar. The proof on this one is on you, not me.

You're not in any position to be giving demands. You are the one on here lying with reckless abandon.


Dude, I just caught you in a lie. I never said Powel had his own server, so quite lying and saying I did.

So why don't you first prove that...

1) Hillary was granted permission to use a private server
2) That her emails were classified after the fact
3) She broke no laws.


1 & 2, already commented on.

3 - I said she didn't break any rules about not have a server - not the law. So, please do not repeat that lie, either.

Then maybe we'll talk, kapeesh?


Not really...cuz you haven't stopped talking, or lying.

Monker wrote:That's a question, not a lie. All I am saying is the NSA has read each and every Email that anybody has ever sent, including Clinton's. That is simply a fact....and you are incredibly naïve if you don't accept it.

YAWN. Man, you are really full of yourself, dude. You think you have access to some arcane hidden knowledge concerning these intelligence programs that date back to Operation Mockingbird and beyond. It's old hat and it has ZERO to do with Hillary's attempted end-run around the FOIA. Stop throwing up irrelevant bullshit because you can't give a straight answer defending Hillary's actions.


Good, you essentially admitted I didn't lie. In fact, you admitted I was speaking the truth.

Monker wrote:And, she will still be the next President. I wonder if you'll ever get over that.

She's losing states she previously won in 2008 to an obscure elderly Jewish senator from a small state. So, no, sorry, she is not winning the general. Better hurry up and enjoy those transgendered bathrooms while you still can, pervert.


Yeah, funny isn't it? She took a lesson from Obama's two elections and ran a campaign similar to his. She used Obama's strategy to beat Sander's...and she is beating him by more PLEDGED delegates than Obama beat her. Sander's needs to win by around 70/30 of the rest of the states in order to win the nomination. it isn't going to happen. The same strategy will win her the White House...by winning the minority vote, you know all those people Trump has been constantly insulting for the past 9 months...blacks, Hispanics, women, Muslims, gays, "under edicated", Martians, Ewoks, Eloi, and Morlocks....and probably other groups besides old white men and Klan members.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Wed May 18, 2016 3:00 pm

yea thats why Goldman-Sachs recently said...

"we downgrade equities to Neutral over 12 months on growth and valuation concerns. Until we see sustained earnings growth, equities do not look attractive, especially on a risk-adjusted basis."



Image


Man look at that dislocation...

Image


most gains in the market have been nominal, not structural... mostly coming from stock buy-backs to shore up share price. That has largely ended.


Nearly all of the nominal gains in the market over the last 7-10 years have come as a consequence of central banks providing nearly free liquidity (money) to shore and artificially sustain asset prices. In some cases central banks are buying stocks DIRECTLY.

Nominal gains in the market do not indicate "growth", nor are they indicative of economic health, especially when the pricing mechanism of the market has been so destroyed by easy money.. which removes risk aversion and integrity.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 3:02 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Perot quit because of something happening, or being threatened to happen to his daughter. The Press by then had people beliving he was a nut anyway. Just like the Press is trying to make Trump look like something he isn't. Many women coming forward on Fox telling stories on how Trump helped change their lives, like Miss North Carolina did tonight, while the main stream media ignores the Clinton Foundation paying women an average of 38% less then men, which Fox isn't ignoring.


Yeah, the threat was Bush posting Photoshop'd pics of his daughter and to disrupt her wedding. That is what he said in retrospect.

At the time he quit he said it was because the Democrats had revitalized their party and he did not want to be responsible for sending the election to the House.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 18, 2016 3:04 pm

Monker wrote:You've gone loopy.

And you've been exposed as a rat fucking Democratic shill.

Last month, it was announced that Hillary is paying people to post on Reddit, FB, and other online sites (aka cyber astroturfing). The idea of a Democratic Party candidate having to purchase the illusion of a vibrant campaign is truly sad. I would expect that from the GOP, but the Democrats? Really? Maybe you are already on the take, Monker. Tell us, just how much is she paying you to lie like a virgin on prom night?
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 3:07 pm

I said "compared to 8yrs ago" So, please post the same charts from late 2007 - May 2008.

And, BTW, I wouldn't be in the stock market right now...not until at least six months after the election...

slucero wrote:yea thats why Goldman-Sachs recently said...

"we downgrade equities to Neutral over 12 months on growth and valuation concerns. Until we see sustained earnings growth, equities do not look attractive, especially on a risk-adjusted basis."



Image


Man look at that dislocation...

Image


most gains in the market have been nominal, not structural... mostly coming from stock buy-backs to shore up share price. That has largely ended.


Nearly all of the nominal gains in the market over the last 7-10 years have come as a consequence of central banks providing nearly free liquidity (money) to shore and artificially sustain asset prices. In some cases central banks are buying stocks DIRECTLY.

Nominal gains in the market do not indicate "growth", nor are they indicative of economic health, especially when the pricing mechanism of the market has been so destroyed by easy money.. which removes risk aversion and integrity.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed May 18, 2016 3:11 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:You've gone loopy.

And you've been exposed as a rat fucking Democratic shill.

Last month, it was announced that Hillary is paying people to post on Reddit, FB, and other online sites (aka cyber astroturfing). The idea of a Democratic Party candidate having to purchase the illusion of a vibrant campaign is truly sad. I would expect that from the GOP, but the Democrats? Really? Maybe you are already on the take, Monker. Tell us, just how much is she paying you to lie like a virgin on prom night?


Actually, nothing.

But, no comment on the check I get from Marvel.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 18, 2016 3:22 pm

Monker wrote:You obviously do care because you keep going on about it. You care very deeply.

I don't care about what you "read." I DO care about lies that are spread as frivolously as Hep C at the piercing tent at Lollapalooza. You say Hillary was given special permission. Fine. Prove it. Otherwise, share your reading material with your fellow Nicholas Sparks book club homos.

Monker wrote:You're the one who called a liar. The proof on this one is on you, not me.

YOU are the one posting defenses of Hillary with no accreditation whatsoever. I included various links and am happy to provide many more.

Monker wrote:Yeah, funny isn't it? She took a lesson from Obama's two elections and ran a campaign similar to his. She used Obama's strategy to beat Sander's...and she is beating him by more PLEDGED delegates than Obama beat her. Sander's needs to win by around 70/30 of the rest of the states in order to win the nomination. it isn't going to happen. The same strategy will win her the White House...by winning the minority vote, you know all those people Trump has been constantly insulting for the past 9 months...blacks, Hispanics, women, Muslims, gays, "under edicated", Martians, Ewoks, Eloi, and Morlocks....and probably other groups besides old white men and Klan members.

This couldn’t be more wrong. Obama appealed to hope and was inspired by Lincoln to appeal to our better angels. Hillary took a page from Karl Rove and has been using SwiftBoatian dumpster fire tactics. In 2008 she mentioned her support from "hard working white people" (hint, hint) and this year, she has desperately used everything from sexism to racism to attack Bernie. No comparison between the campaigns at all.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Thu May 19, 2016 2:50 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:You obviously do care because you keep going on about it. You care very deeply.

I don't care about what you "read." I DO care about lies that are spread as frivolously as Hep C at the piercing tent at Lollapalooza. You say Hillary was given special permission. Fine. Prove it. Otherwise, share your reading material with your fellow Nicholas Sparks book club homos.


I said it ONE TIME. *YOU* are the one who keeps going on and on and on about it as if you have something to prove, not me. You are the one who keeps bringing it up, repeatedly. You are the one showing a need to talk about it, not me.

Monker wrote:You're the one who called a liar. The proof on this one is on you, not me.

YOU are the one posting defenses of Hillary with no accreditation whatsoever. I included various links and am happy to provide many more.


I am not posting a bunch of defenses for Clinton. I do once in a while, that is true...but not as often as you are implying.

What I keep doing, which seems to really frustrate you, is I keep saying that she will be the next President....despite all of the stuff that has been posted here in this thread.

Monker wrote:Yeah, funny isn't it? She took a lesson from Obama's two elections and ran a campaign similar to his. She used Obama's strategy to beat Sander's...and she is beating him by more PLEDGED delegates than Obama beat her. Sander's needs to win by around 70/30 of the rest of the states in order to win the nomination. it isn't going to happen. The same strategy will win her the White House...by winning the minority vote, you know all those people Trump has been constantly insulting for the past 9 months...blacks, Hispanics, women, Muslims, gays, "under edicated", Martians, Ewoks, Eloi, and Morlocks....and probably other groups besides old white men and Klan members.

This couldn’t be more wrong. Obama appealed to hope and was inspired by Lincoln to appeal to our better angels. Hillary took a page from Karl Rove and has been using SwiftBoatian dumpster fire tactics. In 2008 she mentioned her support from "hard working white people" (hint, hint) and this year, she has desperately used everything from sexism to racism to attack Bernie. No comparison between the campaigns at all.


True, at least for the first campaign. What I am saying, and phrased it badly, is it is the minority vote that really pushed Obama to victory...both times. Especially in the reelection. And, if you really look at the states Obama won against Hillary, and what Hillary has won against Sanders, she has done to Sanders what Obama did to her. To win elections in today's demographics, you need to win the minority vote. Sanders failed to do that...and Trump will fail even worse than Sanders.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Thu May 19, 2016 3:34 am

Monker wrote:
tj wrote:The reality is that we are offered poor choices for candidates to begin with, so it then becomes picking the lesser of the two evils. We are all shaped by our experiences and education, so I am not surprised that many people support Trump, Sanders, Cruz, Hilary, etc. Many truly believe that their candidate will make things better for everyone, and how can the opponents' supporters not see this? They must be stupid, right?

I think that when you pull the emotion away, which is hard to do, especially when you believe that you are poor, disadvantaged, superior in intellect, called to the position of power by God, whatever, people make what they think is the best decision. Facts don't often matter, because even those are disputed (global warming temperatures, unemployment levels, % of homosexuals, take any point and the data can be manipulated to support your position).

Almost none of us have any personal experience with a candidate, so what we know about them is shaped by media reports (traditional and social). We have to make a choice based on what their experience shows that they will do combined with what they say they will do (i.e. Bush1: No new taxes). In the end, we either don't participate by not voting, or choose someone who most closely represents what we believe.

In any case, it is a gamble. The expectation of conservatives in Bush2 was never met. Hope and Change Obama brought change in terms of social policy, but the economy still stinks for millions of Americans. Millions of Americans wish that the focus of change had been in helping them economically, not letting boys in girls bathrooms. Examples go on and on from the Presidential level all the way down to the local dog catcher.

I hope that our two party systems implodes on itself. Trump and Sanders are the best bet to make that happen. It is a lot harder for businesses and individuals to buy off politicians when the people have multiple choices.


Well, the economy today is much better off that it was 8yrs ago, when industries were failing, financial markets collapsed along with most people's retirement savings, and we were bleeding jobs This is not an opinion...it's a fact.

The rest of it, I agree somewhat. But, a candidate should at least have the basic abilities to do the job. Trump has not displayed that at all. In fact, he has shown how unqualified he is via his gaffs...nuclear triad, forcing soldiers to perform torture worse than ISIS, dismantling NATO, South Korea and Japan having nuclear weapons....crazy stuff. He delivers ideas in bombastic ways to get and/or keep the media attention but has no real plan to execute those plans...especially when most require congress to go along with them. By now he should be surrounded by people giving him sound advice and keeping him in the bounds of sanity with policies...but he just doesn't. Talking to North Korea? Doesn't he realize that talking to the enemy was a HUGE critique of the Republicans over the last 8yrs? At least Obama usually had an objective in mind...what is Trump's objective with North Korea? He says these type of things to grandstand, he doesn't think first, and most of the time he comes off like he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Trump doesn't care about debt, he even says he likes it...and if we get close to defaulting on our debt, we can just print more money. Wow, I am amazed that ANY conservative would willingly vote for somebody who speaks those things, even if he doesn't truly believe it.

That's just one of the topics of issue I have with Trump. At least Jeb! knew what he was talking about even if he did have low energy. I would rather have somebody slow and deliberate and making Presidential decisions than somebody who shoots from the hip and doesn't care where the bullets go or who they injure or kill


That's a bit like saying that you are better off today in a coma breathing on your own, rather than still intubated and in full cardiac arrest. The economic meltdown from 8 years ago was brought about by a lot of things, but primarily bad lending practices in the housing market intiated during the Clinton administration. Bush didn't stop it and it collapsed on him. After massive government bailouts, it stabilized into the coma we have been in for the past 8 years. Cash for clunkers, $800 billion stimulus for "shovel ready jobs" which weren't shovel ready, and using an unemployment calculation which takes 93 millions out of work people out of the equation makes it easier for Obama and his supporters to claim that we are better off. But for those 93 million out of the workforce and those still in who haven't had a meaningful wage increase in something like 20 years, things aren't better off.

Hilary is certainly better off, to the tune of $150million or so from making speeches. Bernie collects his $250k salary each year. Donald just reported $500+ million in income last year. Obama will have taken home $4 million over 8 years as being president.

So, some are obviously better off. Just not the majority who have to get up and do real work for a living day in and day out.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Thu May 19, 2016 5:15 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:TJ, Bush is on record going many times to the Democratic Congress to address Fannie and Freddie only to be stopped by Reid, dodd, and Pelosi. Look into http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives. ... 09-10.html

Starting to look as if Bernnie could be looking at a Third Party. He'd better hurry. Already he couldn't be on a Texas ballot.


I know that Bush tried a variety of things like that which he couldn't get done. But he campaigned as a uniter, able to work with Democrats in Texas to get things done, implying that he could in Washington as well. He couldn't, so he owns it to some extent. I am not at all in the "It's Bush's fault" camp that the Obama team still uses.

Obama campaigned as a uniter as well. Hope and Change and all that. We got change, not for the better in my opinion, but what people hoped for (racial reconciliation, the most transparent administration in history, coming together of Republicans and Democrats, etc.) hasn't happened either. It won't happen with Hilary, Bernie, Mitt, Donald, Gore, Biden, McCain, Cruz, or anyone else.

The country is too polarized with differing worldviews. It isn't just a "we need to compromise" solution anymore. The candidates have to play to the extreme wings of their parties to win. Then they try to pivot to the center to win the general election. It's a strategy that Nixon used and espoused more than 40 years ago. Trump seeming to be the exception at this point, though I think that is due to his celebrity and name recognition and self funding to date, rather than anything policy related.

Compromise typically means that one side or the other or both give in on some things that are marginal to get their main objective. For Republicans, they see that their leadership has been giving into Obama on the main objective for the past 7 years in addition to the marginal things. What they have to show for supporting the "establishment" is almost 20 TRILLION dollars in debt with no sign of it abating, as small as it was before WWII, stagnant wages, job losses, imigration run amok, and a strong sense that America's best days are behind us. Trump is using all of this to his advantage.

Bernie and Hilary are playing on it to some extent, but Hilary has to continue to play to the left because Bernie is holding her down there. I don't see him going away until at least the convention, and then maybe not even after that. Sort of like Ted Kennedy did to Carter in 1980 and Reagan did to Ford in 1976, plagued them all the way to the convention and caused enough of the swing vote to consider the opponent.

Regardless, it doesn't change my worldview or perspective of how it all plays out in the end.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Thu May 19, 2016 5:19 am

Fact Finder wrote:Genius,...... your move Hillary... :wink:

Trump unveils list of 11 potential Supreme Court justices

Steven Colloton of Iowa
Allison Eid of Colorado
Raymond Gruender of Missouri
Thomas Hardiman of Pennsylvania
Raymond Kethledge of Michigan
Joan Larsen of Michigan
Thomas Lee of Utah
William Pryor of Alabama
David Stras of Minnesota
Diane Sykes of Wisconsin
Don Willett of Texas


He's moving forward as though he has already won. Putting out lists of potential justices, assembling a transition team, etc. On one hand it shows that he is ready to hit the ground running (whether you agree with his agenda or not) and work to get done what he says he will do. On the other, it lays out more specific fodder for Hilary to try and use against him in the general election. I just think that with his negatives as high as they are and his still closing the gap on Hilary in current polls, there is little she is going to be able to do to knock him down. So, from that perspective, this is pretty risk averse, but has a huge upside of showing he is prepared and serious about running the country.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Thu May 19, 2016 8:44 am

Fact Finder wrote:Trump turns up the heat on the Clintons tonight when he raises the specter of 'RAPE' when describing Bill Clinton's past history with women. The bombshell is dropped on FOXNEWS 'HANNITY' during an hour-long interview, set to air at 10 PM ET... MORE...


Image


TRUMP DROPS 'R' WORD ON CLINTON


It will be curious to see if other networks and news outlets pick up on it. If they ignore it, it just becomes another Fox News potshot at the Clintons.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu May 19, 2016 9:32 am

KC - Bush Jr. and his administration were all about promoting what they called "the homeownership society". If Bush, and by extension, the Republican Party, actually cared about preventing another Wall Street meltdown involving securitization of toxic mortgages, then they would be making the case to strengthen Dodd-Frank. Instead they want to tear it up. In fact, with the exception of John McCain, who wanted Glass-Steagall reinstated, the entire Republican Party wants nothing to do with regulating Wall Street. Nobody is going to believe that Bush wanted to reign in anything. His entire two terms revolved around loosening the reins or cutting them entirely - ex. lowering taxes on the rich, gutting Social Security, launching an illegal preemptive war based on bullshit..... he was not exactly a profile in restraint.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Thu May 19, 2016 10:17 am

tj wrote:
I know that Bush tried a variety of things like that which he couldn't get done. But he campaigned as a uniter, able to work with Democrats in Texas to get things done, implying that he could in Washington as well. He couldn't, so he owns it to some extent. I am not at all in the "It's Bush's fault" camp that the Obama team still uses.


Every candidate runs on the premise that they are a "uniter". It has become nothing more then a sound bite. Obama did the same thing. But with B.O., something tells me when the media and others look back at his presidency, they won't be looking to have him own that claim. I'm sure they will pointing the finger in another other direction.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu May 19, 2016 10:25 am

Boomchild wrote:
tj wrote:
I know that Bush tried a variety of things like that which he couldn't get done. But he campaigned as a uniter, able to work with Democrats in Texas to get things done, implying that he could in Washington as well. He couldn't, so he owns it to some extent. I am not at all in the "It's Bush's fault" camp that the Obama team still uses.


Every candidate runs on the premise that they are a "uniter". It has become nothing more then a sound bite. Obama did the same thing. But with B.O., something tells me when the media and others look back at his presidency, they won't be looking to have him own that claim. I'm sure they will pointing the finger in another other direction.

O squandered much of his political capital trying to wrangle a few handful of Republican votes to support the Stimulus or the Affordable Care Act. And for the most part, the GOP was a united front against anything he proposed. I guess you weren't paying attention. The scary part is, Obama actually believe the red state-blue state lets all sing Kumbaya bullshit. The GOP has ZERO interest in governing. Obama should have started with the executive orders from day one.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Thu May 19, 2016 11:02 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Boomchild wrote:
tj wrote:
I know that Bush tried a variety of things like that which he couldn't get done. But he campaigned as a uniter, able to work with Democrats in Texas to get things done, implying that he could in Washington as well. He couldn't, so he owns it to some extent. I am not at all in the "It's Bush's fault" camp that the Obama team still uses.


Every candidate runs on the premise that they are a "uniter". It has become nothing more then a sound bite. Obama did the same thing. But with B.O., something tells me when the media and others look back at his presidency, they won't be looking to have him own that claim. I'm sure they will pointing the finger in another other direction.

O squandered much of his political capital trying to wrangle a few handful of Republican votes to support the Stimulus or the Affordable Care Act. And for the most part, the GOP was a united front against anything he proposed. I guess you weren't paying attention. The scary part is, Obama actually believe the red state-blue state lets all sing Kumbaya bullshit. The GOP has ZERO interest in governing. Obama should have started with the executive orders from day one.


He didn't need to start with executive orders until he lost at least one house of congress. If I recall, he had both the Senate and House of Representatives his first 2 years in office, so he could get anything he wanted. It isn't that the GOP has zero interest in governing, it is that they don't support his policy. Reverse is the same for Democrats. The parties are so diametrically opposed that nothing gets done. As far as executive orders go, Trump/Hilary will rescind many of them just as O, Bush, Clinton, etc. all did when they took office. O has also had many of them shut down by the courts as overreach.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu May 19, 2016 11:48 am

tj wrote:It isn't that the GOP has zero interest in governing, it is that they don't support his policy. Reverse is the same for Democrats.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Sorry. Bush's signature issues, tax cuts and going to Iraq, were all supported by Democrats. When Obama came to power, mainstream policies such as government stimulus, were distorted to appear as the end of Western civilization. Just earlier the same year, George W. Bush was mailing rebate checks to people as a form of stimulus - which is pretty much the government equivalent of dropping money from helicopters. Back in the day, Republicans proposed BIG ideas or at the very least, signed big things into law. Ike was inspired by the German autobahn and gave us the interstate. Nixon vowed to defeat cancer and later gave us the EPA. Nowadays, Obama can't 't even propose fixing potholes without being called the devil spawn of Pol Pot. Political scientists, Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein, summed it up nicely in their book, "It's Worse Than It Looks" -

"Today, thanks to the GOP, compromise has gone out the window in Washington. In the first two years of the Obama administration, nearly every presidential initiative met with vehement, rancorous and unanimous Republican opposition in the House and the Senate, followed by efforts to delegitimize the results and repeal the policies. The filibuster, once relegated to a handful of major national issues in a given Congress, became a routine weapon of obstruction, applied even to widely supported bills or presidential nominations. And Republicans in the Senate have abused the confirmation process to block any and every nominee to posts such as the head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, solely to keep laws that were legitimately enacted from being implemented."
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Thu May 19, 2016 12:21 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
tj wrote:It isn't that the GOP has zero interest in governing, it is that they don't support his policy. Reverse is the same for Democrats.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Sorry. Bush's signature issues, tax cuts and going to Iraq, were all supported by Democrats. When Obama came to power, mainstream policies such as government stimulus, were distorted to appear as the end of Western civilization. Just earlier the same year, George W. Bush was mailing rebate checks to people as a form of stimulus - which is pretty much the government equivalent of dropping money from helicopters. Back in the day, Republicans proposed BIG ideas or at the very least, signed big things into law. Ike was inspired by the German autobahn and gave us the interstate. Nixon vowed to defeat cancer and later gave us the EPA. Nowadays, Obama can't 't even propose fixing potholes without being called the devil spawn of Pol Pot. Political scientists, Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein, summed it up nicely in their book, "It's Worse Than It Looks" -

"Today, thanks to the GOP, compromise has gone out the window in Washington. In the first two years of the Obama administration, nearly every presidential initiative met with vehement, rancorous and unanimous Republican opposition in the House and the Senate, followed by efforts to delegitimize the results and repeal the policies. The filibuster, once relegated to a handful of major national issues in a given Congress, became a routine weapon of obstruction, applied even to widely supported bills or presidential nominations. And Republicans in the Senate have abused the confirmation process to block any and every nominee to posts such as the head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, solely to keep laws that were legitimately enacted from being implemented."


I actually have paid attention for most of the past 40 years. I don't put too much stock in the political scientists you quoted, though. Most political scientists are more political than scientist, like most journalists. I know better than most. I have a degree in PoliSci, but chose not to use it and instead entered the real world of work because I understood the farcical nature of it all.

Our political process is broken, as evidenced by Bush's support from Democrats (from which they all backtrack now - I was for the war, before I was against it or something).

Iraq was a fool's mission, even if there had been WMDs. I lost some good friends there and have others whose lives are irreparably changed due to disabilities from that fiasco. Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, you name it and we have no national interest there which requires our military intervention. Bush, with help from Democrats, used the fever of 9/11 to get us into Iraq and our country was worse off for it.

Stimulus in terms of putting cash back into people's hands who gave it to the government is far better, IMO, than giving it to crony capitalists and union bosses as payback for political support. Ike warned of the military industrial complex, which was a good warning, because that is where he had served his entire life and was familiar with it. I don't think he could have ever imagined that just 15 years later we would have the EPA, etc. as big government continued to explode under LBJ, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush1, Clinton, Bush2, and O. Kennedy gets a pass because he was killed before he could do too much damage, and actually sounded a lot like Republicans of today on fiscal matters. Ford was a caretaker, so he gets a pass as well.

We could afford the interstate system in the 1950s, we can't even afford to fix potholes in it today. That's the gist of many Republicans' issue with O, Hilary, Pelosi, Bush, Mitt, Boehner, et. al. and why they are lambasted. As more Americans see that they individually are not keeping up financially, much less getting ahead, this reality smacks them in the face. That is what is giving Trump and Bernie such momentum.

Nixon's creation of the EPA created one of the worst bureaucracies we have ever seen. Have they done some good? Yes in many ways. But more often than not, they have bent over backward to create rules and obstruction to reasonable progress. Then, they completely destroy a river in Colorado last year and who at the EPA is accountable? What are they going to do, fine themselves a few hundred million more of your tax dollars?

IMO, government can not solve very many problems well. Look at the VA or TSA these days to see how well they do.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Thu May 19, 2016 11:19 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:O squandered much of his political capital trying to wrangle a few handful of Republican votes to support the Stimulus or the Affordable Care Act. And for the most part, the GOP was a united front against anything he proposed. I guess you weren't paying attention. The scary part is, Obama actually believe the red state-blue state lets all sing Kumbaya bullshit. The GOP has ZERO interest in governing. Obama should have started with the executive orders from day one.


Doesn't change a thing. As I said, this whole "I'm going to be a uniter" is just a sound bite. It's on every politician's campaign check list. Even more so with B.O.. People were acting as if he was the second coming of Jesus Christ. The reality was the from the get go all he was interested in was pushing his agenda in any way possible. Don't be mistaken, his administration started working out the plans to use executive orders from day one. Sorry, but if you think that B.O. actually believed in the "lets all sing Kumbaya", you fell for his campaign propaganda.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri May 20, 2016 6:34 am

Boomchild wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:O squandered much of his political capital trying to wrangle a few handful of Republican votes to support the Stimulus or the Affordable Care Act. And for the most part, the GOP was a united front against anything he proposed. I guess you weren't paying attention. The scary part is, Obama actually believe the red state-blue state lets all sing Kumbaya bullshit. The GOP has ZERO interest in governing. Obama should have started with the executive orders from day one.


Doesn't change a thing. As I said, this whole "I'm going to be a uniter" is just a sound bite. It's on every politician's campaign check list. Even more so with B.O.. People were acting as if he was the second coming of Jesus Christ. The reality was the from the get go all he was interested in was pushing his agenda in any way possible. Don't be mistaken, his administration started working out the plans to use executive orders from day one. Sorry, but if you think that B.O. actually believed in the "lets all sing Kumbaya", you fell for his campaign propaganda.

Sorry it's not propaganda. It's his legacy. O wasted most of his first term trying to playing nicey nicey with a party of anarchists.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri May 20, 2016 6:41 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:KC - Bush Jr. and his administration were all about promoting what they called "the homeownership society". If Bush, and by extension, the Republican Party, actually cared about preventing another Wall Street meltdown involving securitization of toxic mortgages, then they would be making the case to strengthen Dodd-Frank. Instead they want to tear it up. In fact, with the exception of John McCain, who wanted Glass-Steagall reinstated, the entire Republican Party wants nothing to do with regulating Wall Street. Nobody is going to believe that Bush wanted to reign in anything. His entire two terms revolved around loosening the reins or cutting them entirely - ex. lowering taxes on the rich, gutting Social Security, launching an illegal preemptive war based on bullshit..... he was not exactly a profile in restraint.


TNC, I don't think I said Bush didn't have a hand in the recession, but since the fate was sealed back in 1977, and others took part, I think it's quite unfair to give ALL the credit.


1977: Jimmy Carter (D) signs the Community Reinvestment Act, guaranteeing home loans to low-income families.
1999: Bill Clinton (D) puts the CRA on steroids by pushing Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac to increase the number of sub-prime loans.
Sept. 1999: New York Times publishes an article "Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending" which warned of the coming crisis due to lax lending policies of the Clinton (D) administration.
2003: White House calls Fannie and Freddie a 'systemic risk" Bush administration pushes Congress to enact new regulations.
2003: Barney Frank (D-CN) says F&F are 'not in a crisis" and bashes Republicans for crying wolf and calls F&F "Financially Sound" Dems block Republican sponsored regulation legislation.
2005: Fed Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan voices warning over F&F accounting "We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk."
2005: Sen Charles Schumer (D-NY) says "I think F & F over the years have done an incredibly good job & are an intrinsic part of making America the best-housed people in the world."
2006 Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) again calls for reform of the regulatory structure that governs F&F.
2006: Democrats again block reform legislation.
2008: Housing market collapses: Democrats blame the Republicans

This has been disproven a million times. At the height of the housing bubble, Fannie and Freddie were trailing market share of ninja and other shady loans to Wall Street. Wall Street was driving the bubble. Many of the mortgage companies involved in the crisis we're not even bound by the community reinvestment act. It's funny how you guys complain that government is incapable of accomplishing anything and then you blame it for the greatest economic disaster in decades. The Clinton and Bush years were all about deregulating. You remove the firewall put into place after the last great depression and what happens? You get another depression.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Fri May 20, 2016 6:50 am

[quote="The_Noble_Cause"
Sorry it's not propaganda. It's his legacy. O wasted most of his first term trying to playing nicey nicey with a party of anarchists.[/quote]

That's funny. Have you seen the reports of the Sanders people in Nevada? Or the Democrat activists near rioting to stop Trump rallies? There are anarchists, but they're not Republicans. Libertarians, at best. The Democratic Contention should be a hoot to watch.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby tj » Fri May 20, 2016 7:04 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
K.C.Journey Fan wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:KC - Bush Jr. and his administration were all about promoting what they called "the homeownership society". If Bush, and by extension, the Republican Party, actually cared about preventing another Wall Street meltdown involving securitization of toxic mortgages, then they would be making the case to strengthen Dodd-Frank. Instead they want to tear it up. In fact, with the exception of John McCain, who wanted Glass-Steagall reinstated, the entire Republican Party wants nothing to do with regulating Wall Street. Nobody is going to believe that Bush wanted to reign in anything. His entire two terms revolved around loosening the reins or cutting them entirely - ex. lowering taxes on the rich, gutting Social Security, launching an illegal preemptive war based on bullshit..... he was not exactly a profile in restraint.


TNC, I don't think I said Bush didn't have a hand in the recession, but since the fate was sealed back in 1977, and others took part, I think it's quite unfair to give ALL the credit.


1977: Jimmy Carter (D) signs the Community Reinvestment Act, guaranteeing home loans to low-income families.
1999: Bill Clinton (D) puts the CRA on steroids by pushing Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac to increase the number of sub-prime loans.
Sept. 1999: New York Times publishes an article "Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending" which warned of the coming crisis due to lax lending policies of the Clinton (D) administration.
2003: White House calls Fannie and Freddie a 'systemic risk" Bush administration pushes Congress to enact new regulations.
2003: Barney Frank (D-CN) says F&F are 'not in a crisis" and bashes Republicans for crying wolf and calls F&F "Financially Sound" Dems block Republican sponsored regulation legislation.
2005: Fed Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan voices warning over F&F accounting "We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk."
2005: Sen Charles Schumer (D-NY) says "I think F & F over the years have done an incredibly good job & are an intrinsic part of making America the best-housed people in the world."
2006 Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) again calls for reform of the regulatory structure that governs F&F.
2006: Democrats again block reform legislation.
2008: Housing market collapses: Democrats blame the Republicans

This has been disproven a million times. At the height of the housing bubble, Fannie and Freddie were trailing market share of ninja and other shady loans to Wall Street. Wall Street was driving the bubble. Many of the mortgage companies involved in the crisis we're not even bound by the community reinvestment act. It's funny how you guys complain that government is incapable of accomplishing anything and then you blame it for the greatest economic disaster in decades. The Clinton and Bush years were all about deregulating. You remove the firewall put into place after the last great depression and what happens? You get another depression.



A million times might be an exaggeration. :) But you, and Bernie, are right about Wall Street and big banking. The problem is that the enemy is us. We want our 401k to grow so that we can retire early and be lazy. We have earned that right, we are told. So we invest, and keep demanding that our investment grow at ridiculous compound rates so that we get what's ours.

The bankers who manage the funds, and the CEOs of the firms whose stock they own, know that they are only a couple of bad quarters away from being out of a job. So, they take as much cash for themselves as they can, drive up share prices as high as possible, and hope for the best. Usually, it is all within the law, so we are left to argue that what they have done is immoral, not illegal.

Then, the whole thing collapses, like it did in 1929 and 2008/09 and we curse the people we have asked to make us rich so that we can retire early. Because we have earned it. It used to be that the Republicans were the party of the rich and the Democrats were the party of the working people. Or so was the mantra. Now, the Wall Street and entertainment billionaires are lined up to host dinners for Hilary and O, hoping that they will continue to fund their re-elections, libraries, etc.

There is not an electable candidate in the race today, nor will be for years, who can bring an end to the corruption of the current system. Bernie and Donald stand the best chance to break the two party system and give working people a chance.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri May 20, 2016 7:13 am

tj wrote: Bernie and Donald stand the best chance to break the two party system and give working people a chance.


With Bernie, we know he can't be bought. Trump so far has largely self-financed his campaign. But will that continue? And if it doesn't, how soon till he starts talking like a typical Republican? Follow the money...
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