Eclipse - 5 years

[tj]

Anyone else astonished that from Infinity to Trial By Fire = 18 years. And Trial By Fire to today = 20 years????

Hard to believe. That makes a lot of us who have been along for the whole ride pretty old.

[Aaron]

Dude you need to back off the keyboard and turn The Kardashians back on. You may listen to music but you're clearly not a musician or a vocalist. Back to your omniscient view bro ...

I did listen to the cd several times. I was so offended by Schon's playing I discarded the cd quickly.

Offended? By what? As if de-tuning is something new?

It did not meet my expectations on key to drive a positive vibe, lead guitar work that lacked soul and emotion (non wankfest playing) and vocal capability. There was zero soul in Neal's playing on this cd.

Sorry. Statements like this just have no credibility at all.
"On key to drive a positive vibe" - whatever the fuck that means. Are we discussing a rock band or the latest Tony Robbins motivational seminar?

The vocals were decent but too conservative with no risky maneuvers by Arnel. His vocals felt like he was protecting for live performances versus putting down his best in the studio regardless his live obligations.

Again, ridiculous. Arnel is pretty much shooting for the stratosphere on the cd. The vocals on this cd were recorded TWICE and the band spent more time on the vocals for Eclipse than Revelation.

And the only track from Revelation worth it's salt is "Never Walk Away",

NWA is one of the most derivative songs on the album, sounding like a straight rip-off of JSS/Schon's "Believe In Me" and "Never Too Late" from Generations. As Schon said, "I don't see the point of repeating the same song with different chords."

So in total, you like one song off of Revelation, hate Eclipse and also hate Faith in the Heartland. Why not gather your cd collection, go to Tiger stadium and torch that shit. The hate is strong with you dude.

...thanks to Jeremey for that.

Why? Jeremey said he changed NWA's lyrics mostly, not the melody. So again, you are just a crazed liar making OTT statements not backed-up by reality.

And it's a good thing you have a keyboard because if we we're having a conversation we could not understand a word you're saying with Schon's Schlong in your mouth so much.

Says the guy pouting like a little bitch whose Power Wheels Barbie roadster got a flat. I think you're just "offended" because Neal is giving the D to Michaele and sending your Aqua Velva-sprayed love letters back marked 'Return to Sender.' Fucking nutcase.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Dude you need to back off the keyboard and turn The Kardashians back on. You may listen to music but you're clearly not a musician or a vocalist. Back to your omniscient view bro ...

I don't need to attend the Juliard Conservatory of Music to know your ears are caked with shit. Kim K has more brains in her badonk than you do in your entire head. A few stubborn truths....

FACT - Arnel is not holding back on the album. His accent came back from his time in Manilla and much of the vocals had to be recorded TWICE. The guys spent more time and $$$ recording Arnel on this album than on Revelation. That's just indisputable.

FACT - Jeremey contributed to TWO songs on Revelation. To "thank him" for the album being good is just a complete exaggeration (aka lie).

FACT - Releasing a long-form concept album with proggy influences is anything but "chasing the next shining star." Is that what all the kids are listening to these days? Gimme a break.

FACT - Singing show tunes in your car on your way to man the fryolator at Jack in the Box does NOT make you a musician or a vocalist. I've never claimed to be a musician. But many of my friends are, and they don't say dumb shit like "on key to drive a positive vibe." That's about as musician-speak as saying "It's a real toe tapper" or "It made me want to get up and shake my ass." Go drown yourself in a vat of hot piss.

[STORY_TELLER]

How do you all have this much free time on your hands?

[tj]

I have been listening to a couple of other classic bands, music over the past few days and it got me thinking about this again. Specifically, The Beatles and The Who. When you listen to their catalogs in order from beginning to end, it is really amazing how their music changed. From HELP to Sgt Peppers to White Album, the Beatles were all over the place lyrically, stylistically, production sound... everywhere. The Who went from the My Generation to Tommy to Who's Next and too, were all over the map musically.

Journey's journey, from Journey to Infinity to Escape to ROR to Eclipse is perhaps similar. Evolving styles, lyrical focus, production sound, etc. are similar in the depth of the changes (not comparing style to the other two bands), particularly from Next to ROR.

So, 25 years after ROR, I can understand how Neal's perception of what the band should sound like with new material would be different. 5 years after the release, I still don't care for Eclipse much, but in thinking about it some more can see the impetus for it.

[FamilyMan]

If an evolution of sound was what Neal and the band were looking for, then they shouldn't have jettisoned Jeff Scott Soto. The whole lead singer search which Neal himself has said they did was for the purpose of finding "the legacy sound / a tenor voice." I'd say Eclipse was a case of Neal wanting it both ways - and the result was it disappointed both legions of fans: those who admire Neal's jamming & shredding and those who only crave the hits.

[Eric]

If an evolution of sound was what Neal and the band were looking for, then they shouldn't have jettisoned Jeff Scott Soto. The whole lead singer search which Neal himself has said they did was for the purpose of finding "the legacy sound / a tenor voice." I'd say Eclipse was a case of Neal wanting it both ways - and the result was it disappointed both legions of fans: those who admire Neal's jamming & shredding and those who only crave the hits.

As much as I love Eclipse...the point - playing up "the legacy sound" and then making Eclipse - has merit.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If an evolution of sound was what Neal and the band were looking for, then they shouldn't have jettisoned Jeff Scott Soto.

We don't know the exact reasons why JSS was let go.

...and the result was it disappointed both legions of fans: those who admire Neal's jamming & shredding and those who only crave the hits.

Based on what? If you are going by sales figures, then the band has been disappointing vast legions since Arrival flopped in 2001. I think you mean to say that YOU are disappointed.

[The_Noble_Cause]

As much as I love Eclipse...the point - playing up "the legacy sound" and then making Eclipse - has merit.

The "legacy sound" comments were made when Arnel was hired and always referred to hiring a singer who is a high tenor (like Perry). It didn't mean that the band will now forever cannibalize their old hits. Even under Perry, the band's sound had a few facelifts (Infinity to Escape to ROR).

[FamilyMan]

If an evolution of sound was what Neal and the band were looking for, then they shouldn't have jettisoned Jeff Scott Soto.

We don't know the exact reasons why JSS was let go.

...and the result was it disappointed both legions of fans: those who admire Neal's jamming & shredding and those who only crave the hits.

Based on what? If you are going by sales figures, then the band has been disappointing vast legions since Arrival flopped in 2001. I think you mean to say that YOU are disappointed.

If the band viewed Eclipse as successful, or that the fans wanted to hear it, they'd be playing it on tour. The fact they don't tells me they don't think those songs are crowd pleasers.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If the band viewed Eclipse as successful, or that the fans wanted to hear it, they'd be playing it on tour. The fact they don't tells me they don't think those songs are crowd pleasers.

Actually, they were playing "Ritual" and "She's a Mystery" as recently as 2014. Three years after Eclipse came out.

But the band has previously been criticized for dropping Arrival songs from the set when they first toured behind it. So this is nothing new. The conclusion you draw ("If they don't play it live, it's not a success") can be applied to pretty much every album they've done since reforming in 1998. It would really be nice if you knew what the hell you were talking about before posting.

[Eric]

Actually, they were playing "Ritual" and "She's a Mystery" as recently as 2014. Three years after Eclipse came out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAI9sqN6EGI

Great tune, especially live.

[FamilyMan]

If the band viewed Eclipse as successful, or that the fans wanted to hear it, they'd be playing it on tour. The fact they don't tells me they don't think those songs are crowd pleasers.

Actually, they were playing "Ritual" and "She's a Mystery" as recently as 2014. Three years after Eclipse came out.

But the band has previously been criticized for dropping Arrival songs from the set when they first toured behind it. So this is nothing new. The conclusion you draw ("If they don't play it live, it's not a success") can be applied to pretty much every album they've done since reforming in 1998. It would really be nice if you knew what the hell you were talking about before posting.

The context of the thread is 5 years removed and the retrospective assessment of the album. The set list tells you a lot about what the band's thinking is. They probably had those songs in the show back in '14 hoping to squeeze a couple more units out. Personally speaking, I didn't dislike Eclipse when I first heard it. But Jon Cain, I suspect, is feeling the frustration of not having a true songwriting chemistry with anyone since SP. And therefore thinks going back into the studio is a waste of time and resources.

[JourneyHard]

Journey has a problem of too many good songs that they cannot play all of them in a single concert. It is a good problem to have. It is hard for them to play anything from Eclipse or Arrival for that matter because rock radio won't play any of their new stuff. Thus, casual fans don't know anything from Journey in the last twenty years.

As for a new album, I think they should make a new album for the hardcore fans. I suggest they keep Arnel, but maybe get another new singer to help make the new album fresh. I have been listening to Santana IV a lot and they have more than one singer and it makes the album exciting. Maybe Neal can have more instrumentals on the new Journey album, too. Just go ahead and have fun with it. If the band is having fun, it will show in the final results. Then everybody wins.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The set list tells you a lot about what the band's thinking is.

Prove it. Lately, the only newish song they have been playing live is Faith in the Heartland. FITH was not a hit single from either Generations or Revelation.

But Jon Cain, I suspect, is feeling the frustration of not having a true songwriting chemistry with anyone since SP. And therefore thinks going back into the studio is a waste of time and resources.

And Cain has been saying that since Arrival was leaked. In one interview, he said the band was done with full length albums and would maybe put an EP out down the road. Left up to the Cain, there would be NO new Journey cds since 2001.

[Archetype]

Giving Eclipse a full listen for the first time in a few years tonight.

[Archetype]

Chain of Love and Anything is Possible are the top tracks from Eclipse to me.

[JourneyHard]

Journey should have released Chain of Love as a single with the beginning part cut out. Those lyrics are repeated later in the song so they wouldn't be lost. And then they could have paid off some rock djs to play the song. All of a sudden, the whole band seems strapped for cash. I don't know what is going on. You have to spend money to make money. Chain of Love could have been a minor hit for rock fans. And then they could play it every summer along with the dirty dozen.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Journey should have released Chain of Love as a single with the beginning part cut out. Those lyrics are repeated later in the song so they wouldn't be lost. And then they could have paid off some rock djs to play the song. All of a sudden, the whole band seems strapped for cash. I don't know what is going on. You have to spend money to make money. Chain of Love could have been a minor hit for rock fans. And then they could play it every summer along with the dirty dozen.

That piano/vocal intro slowly builds up to Neal's riff. I can't imagine the song without it truthfully.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Chain of Love and Anything is Possible are the top tracks from Eclipse to me.

Yea, I would agree with that.

[Onestepper]

I blasted City of Love for the first time in a long time this weekend. Unfortunately it was the only song on the album I can really enjoy. Anything Is Possible is just a cheesy tune that does nothing for me.

I think Eclipse was Neal's answer to Perry's Raised on Radio. Both were basically their own solo albums.

So it goes....

[Gideon]

Resonate is still MVP for me. The ones I hardly ever listen to are Anything Is Possible, Someone, and Venus.
The rest get rotation.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I blasted City of Love for the first time in a long time this weekend. Unfortunately it was the only song on the album I can really enjoy. Anything Is Possible is just a cheesy tune that does nothing for me.

If Anything is Possible is cheesy, what does that make City of Hope? At least the band has a precedent for writing wannabe feel good uplifting anthems like AIP in the past with Be Good to Yourself or Change for the Better. City of Hope raises the bar for trite cheeseball lyrics with crap like "across oceans of blue, where a dream can come true"... it's truly Cain at his worst. And then to make matters worse, they shamelessly try to capitalize on the DSB resurgence with Arnel singing "Never. Stop. Believing. Change. Will. Come." Yuck. Neal's playing just barely redeems the song.

[Monker]

I blasted City of Love for the first time in a long time this weekend. Unfortunately it was the only song on the album I can really enjoy. Anything Is Possible is just a cheesy tune that does nothing for me.

If Anything is Possible is cheesy, what does that make City of Hope? At least the band has a precedent for writing wannabe feel good uplifting anthems like AIP in the past with Be Good to Yourself or Change for the Better. City of Hope raises the bar for trite cheeseball lyrics with crap like "across oceans of blue, where a dream can come true"... it's truly Cain at his worst. And then to make matters worse, they shamelessly try to capitalize on the DSB resurgence with Arnel singing "Never. Stop. Believing. Change. Will. Come." Yuck. Neal's playing just barely redeems the song.

AIP is an anthem? LOL....too funny. It's a somewhat catchy pop song....more like "After the Fall" than anything else.

It's also funny that you compare City of Hope to DSB when AIP is clearly taking on the DSB theme and doesn't need to simply throw in similar lyrics.

[The_Noble_Cause]

AIP is an anthem? LOL....too funny.

Not what wrote. I said "wannabe feel good uplifting anthem." If you don't think Cain obviously set out to write a song in the mold of BGTY or CFTB, then you don't know Journey.

It's also funny that you compare City of Hope to DSB...

Again, not what I wrote. I said City of Hope tries to capitalize on the success of that song and renewed popularity by clunkily referencing it in the COH lyrics ("never stop believing"). Too subtle for you?

when AIP is clearly taking on the DSB theme and doesn't need to simply throw in similar lyrics.

So first you claim that Anything is Possible is not in any way, shape, or form a feel good anthem and now you compare it to Don't Stop Believin, which is the most famous singalong rock anthem of all time. So which is it? You don't really know what the fuck you're trying to say, do you?

[Archetype]

I blasted City of Love for the first time in a long time this weekend. Unfortunately it was the only song on the album I can really enjoy. Anything Is Possible is just a cheesy tune that does nothing for me.

If Anything is Possible is cheesy, what does that make City of Hope? At least the band has a precedent for writing wannabe feel good uplifting anthems like AIP in the past with Be Good to Yourself or Change for the Better. City of Hope raises the bar for trite cheeseball lyrics with crap like "across oceans of blue, where a dream can come true"... it's truly Cain at his worst. And then to make matters worse, they shamelessly try to capitalize on the DSB resurgence with Arnel singing "Never. Stop. Believing. Change. Will. Come." Yuck. Neal's playing just barely redeems the song.

The chorus on City of Hope is enjoyably catchy enough, but that's the song's only redeeming quality. Absolute pure cheese, and as you stated, a shameless attempt to revive the Don't Stop Believing message.

[Aaron]

Dude I respect your view but you are 100% wrong.

Your facts are bs and you have no idea if Arnel is holding back on the record or not. Whether they recorded his vocals twice or a 100 times due to his dictation issues has nothing to do with whether he is holding back. If you listen to his vocals they are easy for him to achieve. Perry's catalog is a lot tougher and he's shown he can do the catalog when his fresh. If you care to compare is range on Eclipse vs the catalog you find he is loafing on his vocals. What makes Perry, Sammy, Lou, Brad, etc communicate their emotion is because they hung their ball sack out full bore on recordings. They were only thinking about doing their best work, not what they can cover live and that is what made them the best at what they do/did. Think about Arnel and how came into this gig. The only thing he is thinking about is how can he cover the material live, and give himself a break on the hard stuff. It's natural and you're shallow in thought.

Your facts are bullshit and really show you're politically savy with your talking points but incapable.

So since you've never claimed to be a musician how would know what musicians do? Do you play? Do you sing? Are you in a band? We all know the answer is naw.

The only thing you show is typical bullying political bs with nothing to back it up. Thanks for your points Hillary, it's appreciated.

Man this forum has dropped to whale crap level capability. Man I miss Dean!

Good luck to you TCN and you're omniscient political bs that has no depth. Oh yea, how many cd's did Eclipse sell? Barely 100,000 units. I bought 2 so I personally was .002% of total sales. You are a dumb ass.

Yawn, I'll stop here.

Dude you need to back off the keyboard and turn The Kardashians back on. You may listen to music but you're clearly not a musician or a vocalist. Back to your omniscient view bro ...

I don't need to attend the Juliard Conservatory of Music to know your ears are caked with shit. Kim K has more brains in her badonk than you do in your entire head. A few stubborn truths....

FACT - Arnel is not holding back on the album. His accent came back from his time in Manilla and much of the vocals had to be recorded TWICE. The guys spent more time and $$$ recording Arnel on this album than on Revelation. That's just indisputable.

FACT - Jeremey contributed to TWO songs on Revelation. To "thank him" for the album being good is just a complete posting.php?mode=quote&f=69&p=4720385#reviewexaggeration (aka lie).

FACT - Releasing a long-form concept album with proggy influences is anything but "chasing the next shining star." Is that what all the kids are listening to these days? Gimme a break.

FACT - Singing show tunes in your car on your way to man the fryolator at Jack in the Box does NOT make you a musician or a vocalist. I've never claimed to be a musician. But many of my friends are, and they don't say dumb shit like "on key to drive a positive vibe." That's about as musician-speak as saying "It's a real toe tapper" or "It made me want to get up and shake my ass." Go drown yourself in a vat of hot piss.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If you listen to his vocals they are easy for him to achieve.

Actually, for most tenors, the easiest material to pull off is slow, down-tempo ballads. Eclipse is the exact opposite of that. Trial by Fire, on the other hand, is loaded with them (for obvious reasons).

If you care to compare is range on Eclipse vs the catalog you find he is loafing on his vocals.

Only in some distant, parallel, hearing-impaired universe are the stratospheric vocal acrobatics on songs like Chain of Love or Edge of the Moment easy to achieve. What are you comparing the two albums with? Your super-sonic ears? In the Perry forum below, you mistook an unknown generic demo singer for Perry. So who are you to lecture anyone on vocal dynamics? You have already proven yourself to have the hearing of Marlee Matlin wearing Dre beats in a sound-proof basement. I think I will side with Andrew who said regarding Arnel and Eclipse... "his performance blows everything previously documented away and can now be set as a new benchmark in melodic rock vocals."

What makes Perry, Sammy, Lou, Brad, etc communicate their emotion is because they hung their ball sack out full bore on recordings. They were only thinking about doing their best work, not what they can cover live and that is what made them the best at what they do/did. Think about Arnel and how came into this gig. The only thing he is thinking about is how can he cover the material live, and give himself a break on the hard stuff. It's natural and you're shallow in thought.

This could be said about ANY replacement singer. or ANY singer really. Eclipse was tailor-made for Arnel's strengths whereas Revelation was originally written with either Augeri in mind or some other yet-to-be-named tenor. Eclipse is a go-for-broke album, including the vocals. Arnel is not ducking high notes or singing in a lower register. What proof do you have that Arnel overruled Schon, Cain, or Shirley and half-assed Eclipse? Especially in light of Shirley allegedly pushing Augeri so hard during the Arrival recording sessions that he hurt his voice. Sorry. Not buying it. Nothing you say holds up against the slightest scrutiny.

Your facts are bullshit and really show you're politically savy with your talking points but incapable.

Is it a lie when I said the band recorded Arnel twice and spent more time/money on his vocals than they did on Revelation? Sorry that's a fact. Do you think Cain/Schon recorded Arnel twice and settled for a less-demanding performance? What sense does that make?

So since you've never claimed to be a musician how would know what musicians do? Do you play? Do you sing? Are you in a band? We all know the answer is naw.

You act as if you took a break from feather-dusting your wall of platinum records to respond here. You are a fucking nobody. Just because you strum a banjo on the porch of a general store waiting for lost tourists to rape, doesn't make you a "musician." And when you say musically illiterate stuff like Neal's playing "did not meet my expectations on key to drive a positive vibe", you prove just what a pretender you truly are.

The only thing you show is typical bullying political bs with nothing to back it up. Thanks for your points Hillary, it's appreciated.

Umm, who is discussing politics? Next, you will tell me I am not allowed to comment on politics because I never ran for office. Let me guess, in addition to being a world-renowned famous musician, you were also a Congressional Paige for 'Uncle Denny' Hastert? No wonder you woof down cock like its your last meal on death row.

Man this forum has dropped to whale crap level capability. Man I miss Dean!

Lightweight shitmongers like you would not even be worth Deano's time.

Good luck to you TCN and you're omniscient political bs that has no depth.

Good luck to you and your lucrative career of playing piano in a gay bar. The patrons on "Thirsty Bear Thursdays" will just adore your Dixieland rendition of "In The Navy", I'm sure.

Oh yea, how many cd's did Eclipse sell? Barely 100,000 units. I bought 2 so I personally was .002% of total sales.

Compared to Red 13 and Generations, I'd say that's pretty good.

Yawn, I'll stop here.

Good idea. You've already suffered enough embarrassment for a lifetime. Go take a shit.

[Onestepper]

I blasted City of Love for the first time in a long time this weekend. Unfortunately it was the only song on the album I can really enjoy. Anything Is Possible is just a cheesy tune that does nothing for me.

If Anything is Possible is cheesy, what does that make City of Hope? At least the band has a precedent for writing wannabe feel good uplifting anthems like AIP in the past with Be Good to Yourself or Change for the Better. City of Hope raises the bar for trite cheeseball lyrics with crap like "across oceans of blue, where a dream can come true"... it's truly Cain at his worst. And then to make matters worse, they shamelessly try to capitalize on the DSB resurgence with Arnel singing "Never. Stop. Believing. Change. Will. Come." Yuck. Neal's playing just barely redeems the song.

Yep, that's what I said, AIP is a cheese fest. Nothing special about it at all. Not to say that City of Hope is some musical brilliance, but I can at least listen to it now and again. It's all about personal preference. You're not going to convince people otherwise.

And if I were to critique every song by their lyrical prose, and how goofy some of them are, we'd be here all day.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're not going to convince people otherwise.

Not looking to win hearts and change minds. But if you are going to critique Anything is Possible for being "cheesy", then at least be consistent. City of Hope is just as guilty. Imo worse.

And if I were to critique every song by their lyrical prose, and how goofy some of them are, we'd be here all day.

So if your beef with Anything is Possible isn't the hokey lyrics, what is it? I wouldn't consider Neal's playing to be cheesy.