The Return of JTT?

[danielb]

The missing link between Steve Augeri and Steve Perry: Deen.

His singing on Still they Ride and Separate Ways is nothing short of goosebumps generating. What a talent he is.

And to do this while nailing the drumming in songs that aren't exactly from A to B. Hats off.

What I also like is how he has his own voice going stylistically, so he doesn't come across as a complete Perry clone either.

[Monker]

The missing link between Steve Augeri and Steve Perry: Deen.

His singing on Still they Ride and Separate Ways is nothing short of goosebumps generating. What a talent he is.

And to do this while nailing the drumming in songs that aren't exactly from A to B. Hats off.

What I also like is how he has his own voice going stylistically, so he doesn't come across as a complete Perry clone either.

Well, I have heard him sing "Mother Father" and one other song that I don't remember. It did not give me goosebumbs. It did not end with me thinking "wow, what a talent." It was more of a "well, that was interesting." The crowd didn't even realize who was singing at first. Even Phil Collins and Genesis realized they were better off hiring a drummer so Phil could go out front to sing and do drums part time, if even that.

I have never heard why people compare him to Perry and think he should take over lead vocals. He has an OK TBF/FTLOSM sorta voice...but it's not even where JSS was. It has been a while since I heard him and I would guess that his voice has degraded some since...because I doubt he is working with any type of vocal coach regularly.

It's really nothing to complain about when he only does a couple songs "adequately". It helps give Augeri/JSS/Arnel a break to extend their voice for the day and tour. But, I would not even consider buying a ticket if he were to be singing lead for an entire Journey concert...I do not believe he is at that level.

[jestor92]

The missing link between Steve Augeri and Steve Perry: Deen.

His singing on Still they Ride and Separate Ways is nothing short of goosebumps generating. What a talent he is.

And to do this while nailing the drumming in songs that aren't exactly from A to B. Hats off.

What I also like is how he has his own voice going stylistically, so he doesn't come across as a complete Perry clone either.

Well, I have heard him sing "Mother Father" and one other song that I don't remember. It did not give me goosebumbs. It did not end with me thinking "wow, what a talent." It was more of a "well, that was interesting." The crowd didn't even realize who was singing at first. Even Phil Collins and Genesis realized they were better off hiring a drummer so Phil could go out front to sing and do drums part time, if even that.

I have never heard why people compare him to Perry and think he should take over lead vocals. He has an OK TBF/FTLOSM sorta voice...but it's not even where JSS was. It has been a while since I heard him and I would guess that his voice has degraded some since...because I doubt he is working with any type of vocal coach regularly.

It's really nothing to complain about when he only does a couple songs "adequately". It helps give Augeri/JSS/Arnel a break to extend their voice for the day and tour. But, I would not even consider buying a ticket if he were to be singing lead for an entire Journey concert...I do not believe he is at that level.

When I saw Journey back in 2006 Augeri was having vocal issues and Castronovo started singing most of the songs and he did an excellent job. He didn’t and doesn’t have the prime 1978-1981 Perry voice, but he does a damn good job and personally like the job he does over Arnel.

[danielb]

When I saw Journey back in 2006 Augeri was having vocal issues and Castronovo started singing most of the songs and he did an excellent job. He didn’t and doesn’t have the prime 1978-1981 Perry voice, but he does a damn good job and personally like the job he does over Arnel.

+1

[JourneyHard]

One of the highlights of Freedom is Deen singing Afterglow. I don't know why they don't include this song in every concert.

[The_Noble_Cause]

One of the highlights of Freedom is Deen singing Afterglow. I don't know why they don't include this song in every concert.

Song needed a tighter edit. Goes on too long and meanders towards the end. Actually wish Kevin Shirley was involved with Freedom.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The recently announced JTT shows in France have been cancelled.

[Onestepper]

One of the highlights of Freedom is Deen singing Afterglow. I don't know why they don't include this song in every concert.

Song needed a tighter edit. Goes on too long and meanders towards the end. Actually wish Kevin Shirley was involved with Freedom.

Yeah the last minute plus of Afterglow is just maddening. Could have been a great song. But there's zero discipline, which in my opinion is a constant theme with Freedom.

[Monker]

One of the highlights of Freedom is Deen singing Afterglow. I don't know why they don't include this song in every concert.

Song needed a tighter edit. Goes on too long and meanders towards the end. Actually wish Kevin Shirley was involved with Freedom.

Yeah the last minute plus of Afterglow is just maddening. Could have been a great song. But there's zero discipline, which in my opinion is a constant theme with Freedom.

I think "discipline" is a great word. I watched an interview with Nuno, and he gets it. Everything from his approach to solos to writing and why they are out there is spot on. His take on solos is something Neal has forgotten. He said he approaches solos by first thinking of what the song needs. It's not what HE needs, not that HE wants to produce this great EVH'like solo that lights up the Internet, like the solo in "Rise" did. It seems Neal approaches EVERYTHING with this intent that he wants to impress the world and do whatever it takes to do that. He forgets that the simplest solos of his are the ones that are most memorable and impress the most fans, and were driven by the song and not his ego. Nuno drops Neal's name in a quick list of impressive guitarists...but doesn't go on about him...

It's a long interview, but really good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYpKg6H ... =RickBeato

[Journey/Survivor]

I think that the end of Afterglow makes the song far more interesting. I always look forward to that ending every time that I listen to it.

The times that I went and saw the Indians playing against the Rangers with Nolan Ryan pitching for the Rangers I didn't want to see Ryan throw nothing but change-ups. I wanted to see him throw his fastball.

When I watched Mike Tyson box I didn't want to see him throwing nothing but soft jabs the whole match. I wanted to see him throw some hard roundhouse punches or hard uppercuts, knockout punches.

I love hearing virtuoso musicians turn in virtuoso performances.

[Journey/Survivor]

Ironically I was thinking about this last night...

There are many people who say that Schon is at his best when someone like Perry or Cain keeps him in check and doesn't let Schon "overplay."

I was just thinking last night that Journey's songs from the Perry era were at their best when Perry didn't have too much control over the songs by himself. When Schon had a more prominent role in the writing of the songs with Perry, those songs were better than when Perry was the obvious prominent writer.

I'll take Stone In Love over Good Morning Girl any day. And yes, I know that Schon did co-write GMG with Perry. But GMG is clearly a Perry type of song much more than it is a Schon song.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I love hearing virtuoso musicians turn in virtuoso performances.

Virtuoso is fine. But I don't hear that. Like "A Better Life" on Generations, "Afterglow" simply overstays its welcome. Whole album needed a better producer.

[danielb]

I think that the end of Afterglow makes the song far more interesting. I always look forward to that ending every time that I listen to it.

Yep. Deen and Neal responding to eachother in the extended outro makes a great song even better.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I think that the end of Afterglow makes the song far more interesting. I always look forward to that ending every time that I listen to it.

Yep. Deen and Neal responding to eachother in the extended outro makes a great song even better.

From 4:30 on, I mostly just hear Narada noisily thrashing cymbals while a cheesy wedding bell effect clongs intermittently in the background. No idea what you guys are hearing.

Deen's vocal refrain of "lovin, lovin, lovin, you" is a nice callback to Perry on Lovin You Is Easy - but, really, we are entering Hugo-like levels of copycat derivativeness here.

[Monker]

Ironically I was thinking about this last night...

There are many people who say that Schon is at his best when someone like Perry or Cain keeps him in check and doesn't let Schon "overplay."

I think that is accidently true. It seems that back in the day, Perry/Cain came up with most of the song ideas and drove the writing. Then Neal would come in and add his guitar ideas. There are some songs that Neal drove the writing, but most were not. So, he had to give the song what he thought it needed...which was not always a constant, in your face, guitar bit...he had to play to Perry/Cain's writing. It gave time to let the song breathe and allow other instruments to come through more. SW and DSB seem like perfect examples where Jon's keys at times drive the song forward. So, I don't think it was intentionally holding Neal back...Neal just spent less time driving the songwriting.

When I listened to Freedom, and it has been months since I listened to it, what I heard was a muddled mess where either Neal came through loud and clear, or everything was muddled together. To me, and I'm just guessing, it seems like Neal was driving the songwriting, and Jonathan just tried to ensure they did not go off a cliff...and maybe tried to drive a few songs that he really believed in. Eclipse is similar, but the direction of the sound was better....maybe because it was produced better.

I was just thinking last night that Journey's songs from the Perry era were at their best when Perry didn't have too much control over the songs by himself. When Schon had a more prominent role in the writing of the songs with Perry, those songs were better than when Perry was the obvious prominent writer.

A few of the songs on Evolution are lifted directly from Alien Project. LTS and "Walks Like a Lady" are credited solely to Perry. So, Perry could do it mostly on his own....but not as often. Even then, I doubt he wrote Neal's guitar bits...which is why I don't trust writing credits very much. So, I think you are correct that when they wrote together it usually turned out better than if Perry did most of it himself.

When Jonathan joined, I think they leaned on each other creatively when writing. For Frontiers and Escape, it was that way. Then Perry dictated the sound and style of songwriting for ROR...and Neal hated it.

I'll take Stone In Love over Good Morning Girl any day. And yes, I know that Schon did co-write GMG with Perry. But GMG is clearly a Perry type of song much more than it is a Schon song.

Yes, but that is two different eras, IMO. But, I'm sure you would take Any Way You Want it, or "Line of Fire", or "Where Were You" or "Precious Time" over Good Morning Girl, too. But, what if it were against LTS?

[danielb]

Does anyone know why the French festival appearance was cancelled?

[JourneyHard]

Finally, I watched the Journey Through Time concert and Marco Mendoza was a big presence. It is no wonder they didn't have him tour with Journey. Neal and Jon didn't want him to outshine them.

[JourneyHard]

Watching the Journey Through Time concert got me thinking. Journey has at least 90 top level songs, but they keep playing the same dirty dozen every concert. This is a shame. They need to do like Metallica did and have two shows in every city on back to back nights and no repeats of songs. You can go to both concerts or just one of the concerts, but you know going in that you aren't getting all the hits in either show. They could call this their 50th Anniversary tour.

Night One: 1. Of a Lifetime 2. Nickel & Dime 3. Separate Ways 4. Only the Young 5. Feeling That Way 6. Anytime 7. Lights 8. Trial by Fire 9. Mother, Father 10. Loving Touching Squeezing 11. Escape 12. Send Her my Love 13. Holding On 14. Faithfully 15. Be Good to Yourself 16. Don't Stop Believing

Night Two: 1. Mystery Mountain 2. I'm Gonna Leave You 3. Wheel in the Sky 4. Ask the Lonely 5. Just the Same Way 6. Open Arms 7. Walks Like a Lady 8. Lady Luck 9. Patiently 10. Daydream 11. Chain Reaction 12. Dixie Highway 13. Come Away With Me 14. Who's Crying Now 15. Any Way You Want It 16. Stone in Love

[The_Noble_Cause]

Finally, I watched the Journey Through Time concert and Marco Mendoza was a big presence. It is no wonder they didn't have him tour with Journey. Neal and Jon didn't want him to outshine them.

Except Marco did tour with them. I saw him live (while naively holding out hope for Randy) when Narada was with them. He was great - so was Narada. Neal said he only realized Marco was playing the parts wrong while mixing the IHeartRadio concert. Aftering Marco left, Todd was brought in for a private gig and then the 2 Toto runs. No consistency. They fired Ross for a revolving door? Just amateur hour in Journeyland. Ultimately, this is just about money. Todd and Deen are probably being paid as contractual players.

[JourneyHard]

One of the highlights of Freedom is Deen singing Afterglow. I don't know why they don't include this song in every concert.

Song needed a tighter edit. Goes on too long and meanders towards the end. Actually wish Kevin Shirley was involved with Freedom.

I think Afterglow is great, but You Got the Best of Me goes on too long. That should be a three-minute song and it could be played at every concert. At three-minutes, it would be over before anybody got tired of it.

[jestor92]

One of the highlights of Freedom is Deen singing Afterglow. I don't know why they don't include this song in every concert.

Song needed a tighter edit. Goes on too long and meanders towards the end. Actually wish Kevin Shirley was involved with Freedom.

I think Afterglow is great, but You Got the Best of Me goes on too long. That should be a three-minute song and it could be played at every concert. At three-minutes, it would be over before anybody got tired of it.

The entire album should’ve been about 3-4 minutes because it sounds like amateur hour musically and production wise.

[Journey/Survivor]

For me personally, one of the main reasons to go to a Journey concert is to see/hear them perform live solos and to add jams into the songs that weren't in the original recording of the songs.

I wish that not only would Schon and Cain perform solos during the concerts, but that they would also have Castronovo and Jensen also do solos.

If all they do is perform the hits, and if all they do is play them exactly the way that they were performed on the albums, it becomes almost pointless to go to a concert. People might as well just stay at home, listen to the CDs and save their money by not paying through the nose for a concert ticket.

For similar reasons to why I want those solos and extended jams at concerts, I also want those solos and jams in the original studio recordings of the songs.

IMO, not one song on the Freedom album is too long. I like or even love the way that they ended the songs that have those extended jams at the end. I wouldn't eliminate a single second from the album.

I do agree that the mix is bad because Schon was pushing for that concert hall sound. It sounds like the band were performing in an empty auditorium, and there's way too much reverb.

[The_Noble_Cause]

IMO, not one song on the Freedom album is too long. I like or even love the way that they ended the songs that have those extended jams at the end. I wouldn't eliminate a single second from the album.

The end of AfterGlow features Deen shamelessly aping Perry ("loving lovin lovin you!" pulled right from Loving You Is Easy) while wedding bell sounds gong in the background. I don't know what you're hearing. Overall, it's just cheesy sonic crap. Walden's frenzy of drums is good.

I do agree that the mix is bad because Schon was pushing for that concert hall sound. It sounds like the band were performing in an empty auditorium, and there's way too much reverb.

It sounds bad because it was produced cheaply and badly. This isn't about Neal making brave artistic choices.

[Monker]

Dudes, if you want to hear a great rock album, listen to Extreme 6. That is an album that has hard rocking songs that actually sound fresh and not just like 80's throwback. It has a guitarist that is so good that he knows how to pull back and play for the song and not to his own ego...but YOU know he can explode and blow your mind whenever he wants to. It has hard songs, soft songs, a song that sounds like Journey, a song that sounds like the Doors meet the Who, a song that sounds like Simon and Garfunkle, a song that sounds like Jan and Dean. And, the production is perfect. Listening to this really makes Freedom sound horrible to me. It's an album that I wish Journey could do but they can't because they do not know how to sit in a room and write and record an album like a group of adult musicians that actually enjoy working together, writing together, playing off each other, and performing together. And, the excuse of Covid is bullshit...they had all kinds of time after 2020 to do it right and they fell short.

I don't care what you imagine changing on the songs on Freedom, it would never be more than an average album. It does not have that extra lift of a band that actually wants to write and record as a band, and stay together as a band without huge egos trying to dominate everything.

[Journey/Survivor]

IMO, not one song on the Freedom album is too long. I like or even love the way that they ended the songs that have those extended jams at the end. I wouldn't eliminate a single second from the album.

The end of AfterGlow features Deen shamelessly aping Perry ("loving lovin lovin you!" pulled right from Loving You Is Easy) while wedding bell sounds gong in the background. I don't know what you're hearing. Overall, it's just cheesy sonic crap. Walden's frenzy of drums is good.

I do agree that the mix is bad because Schon was pushing for that concert hall sound. It sounds like the band were performing in an empty auditorium, and there's way too much reverb.

It sounds bad because it was produced cheaply and badly. This isn't about Neal making brave artistic choices.

In the case of After Glow, it's Schon's guitar and Walden's drums that I love at the end.

In the case of the production of Freedom, the main problem is that Schon pushed Bob Clearmountain to mix the album in a way that it would sound like it was being performed in a concert hall. Unfortunately, they succeeded to "well" in that regard.

[The_Noble_Cause]

In the case of the production of Freedom, the main problem is that Schon pushed Bob Clearmountain to mix the album in a way that it would sound like it was being performed in a concert hall. Unfortunately, they succeeded to "well" in that regard.

A friend of mine talked to Bob about Freedom back in June 2022. Bob was frustrated with the process and called it "extremely difficult." He cited the unusual way Neal's parts were recorded and the volume on Narada's drums.

It's obvious Bob did the best with what he was given, but he isn't a miracle worker. You can only do so much. The idea that Freedom sounds the way it does because of Neal pushing for perfection is just laughable spin.

The only modern Journey album with the symphonics of a concert hall is Trial By Fire - thanks to a big budget and the masterful Kev Caveman at the helm. Much of Freedom sounds like it was recorded in an outhouse.

[Journey/Survivor]

In the case of the production of Freedom, the main problem is that Schon pushed Bob Clearmountain to mix the album in a way that it would sound like it was being performed in a concert hall. Unfortunately, they succeeded to "well" in that regard.

A friend of mine talked to Bob about Freedom back in June 2022. Bob was frustrated with the process and called it "extremely difficult." He cited the unusual way Neal's parts were recorded and the volume on Narada's drums.

It's obvious Bob did the best with what he was given, but he isn't a miracle worker. You can only do so much. The idea that Freedom sounds the way it does because of Neal pushing for perfection is just laughable spin.

The only modern Journey album with the symphonics of a concert hall is Trial By Fire - thanks to a big budget and the masterful Kev Caveman at the helm. Much of Freedom sounds like it was recorded in an outhouse.

I'm not blaming Clearmountain for the bad mix. Schon was forcing that on him.

[George_g888]

I think After Glow is a mediocre song at best song to be honest. People reaaaaallly like Deen's vocal performance on the song. I feel like if Arnel was the lead singer on this track, most would find the song boring and not really give it a second thought. I don't hate the song by any stretch, it just does nothing for me. It definitely goes on for too long and needs to be tightened.

[jestor92]

Dudes, if you want to hear a great rock album, listen to Extreme 6. That is an album that has hard rocking songs that actually sound fresh and not just like 80's throwback. It has a guitarist that is so good that he knows how to pull back and play for the song and not to his own ego...but YOU know he can explode and blow your mind whenever he wants to. It has hard songs, soft songs, a song that sounds like Journey, a song that sounds like the Doors meet the Who, a song that sounds like Simon and Garfunkle, a song that sounds like Jan and Dean. And, the production is perfect. Listening to this really makes Freedom sound horrible to me. It's an album that I wish Journey could do but they can't because they do not know how to sit in a room and write and record an album like a group of adult musicians that actually enjoy working together, writing together, playing off each other, and performing together. And, the excuse of Covid is bullshit...they had all kinds of time after 2020 to do it right and they fell short.

I don't care what you imagine changing on the songs on Freedom, it would never be more than an average album. It does not have that extra lift of a band that actually wants to write and record as a band, and stay together as a band without huge egos trying to dominate everything.

The new Extreme album is fantastic, but I don’t like the production work on some of the albums. It sounds like there is a serious lack of treble on some of the tracks.

[Monker]

The new Extreme album is fantastic, but I don’t like the production work on some of the albums. It sounds like there is a serious lack of treble on some of the tracks.

Really? Which songs? I'd have to listen to them again. On headphones I have only listened to YouTube and in the car I have it on USB and MP3's taken directly from the CD. I have only listened to the CD once with headphones after I first got it. But, I have not had any issues with the production. Some songs have some audio and vocal effects and such, but I haven't had any issues with that either. And, I have not heard the extra Japan songs...love to dub those off YouTube, if they exist.

But, my point is that I just can not see how Journey can release an album of songs at that level. Extreme seems to have a lot of musical kinship and genuine friendship that goes back decades. Neither Gary nor Nuno seem to look at Extreme as "their" band and none of them seem to have an ego that tries to push themselves as more important than anybody else. And, Pat Badger is no slouch on bass either...he sounds really good here, too. In Journey you have Neal going about saying he IS the reason Journey is what it is and it is HIS band. Jonathan kind of ignoring as much of the drama as he can and treating Journey as a business venture and not a team musical outlet for a "band". At this point Arnel seems to do it for the fans. Deen is Neal's buddy and sidekick. Don't know about Todd....guess he's the invisible man who is not on any studio Journey recording and is there to get his paycheck for touring. And, this is a COMPLETELY different band than what recorded Freedom. It's just a fucked up situation that CAN'T produce the quality of product that they should be able to. It's just not what I ever wanted Journey to be...guess I've beat that horse too often over the past 15yrs or so.