Classic Journey

[jrnyman28]

As for Augeri in the '80s, I don't even remember hearing of the groups that he sang with before. If he was that good I think I would have.

Just like Arrival, there are many reasons. I did not hear of them either. But I do know that Tall Stories came out at the same time as Pearl Jam. Bad timing for a melodic rock band.

The only song I remember from them is When I See You Smile and I don't think it was as big as Oh Sherrie.

Well, I know that When I See You Smile went to #1. But unfortunately, it is the ONE song that Bad English did not write. It was written by Diane Warren (the same person who wrote "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing" by Aerosmith)

But would Escape have reached the top if it hadn't gotten a boost from the name recognition gained by the previous albums? I think Escape had a better sound, and I don't deny that Jon had a lot to do with that, but I don't know that it would have gotten as big as it did without the lead-in of the previous songs that had been on the radio and charted.

I credit it most with the touring they were doing. But there is no doubt that Journey was primed by the time Jon joined. It doesn't change the fact that his songwriting further changed Journey and brought them the pop success.

[Monker]

I don't remember much about the Babys except the name, and that's only because it was a strange name for a group of grown men. I never cared for Bad English because I don't like John Waite's voice at all. The only song I remember from them is When I See You Smile and I don't think it was as big as Oh Sherrie. I really doubt that I'm alone.

"When I See You Smile" went to #1...the ONLY Journey related song to do so.

"The Price of Live" went to #5.
"Possession" went to #21
"Forget Me Not" went to #66

From Backlash:

"Straight to Your Heart" went to #42


Street Talk:

"Oh Sherry" went to #2.
"Foolish Heart" went to #18
"Strung Out" went to #40
"She's Mine" went to #21

So, you see...BE's debut alone equals what Street Talk did. Include Backlash and BE had MORE Hot 100 hits then ST. Even if you discount "When I See You Smile" as being written by Dianne Waren, BE STILL has as many hits as ST.

So, next time you say something is "simply not true" you may want to at least be sure you know what you are talking about. I didn't even look up "Heaven is a Four Letter Word", it may have made the charts too.

[LAWoman]

My theory is that Monker is really a computer program, not an actual person. Otherwise, how does he always know all these facts?! It's true, isn't it Monker?

[arden]

You are simply wrong about this. It does happen in the film industry.


MONKER:
"LOL! Give ONE example in the entire history of the world where an employee signed a "non competition" document when they LEFT a company. You will find plenty when they were HIRED, but not when they left...you are simply ignorant of how such things work and you REFUSE to believe reality."

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,388,00.html

In reference to Sherry Stringfield's departure several years ago from ER...she has since returned:
According to reports, to get out of her contract, Stringfield has agreed not to work on TV for the final 2 1/2 years of her deal with producer Warner Bros. She might also have to ask the studio's permission if she wants to make a feature film during that span.

[perryfaithful]

Imagine that Monker?

[Monker]

Wow, somebody actualy knows what they are talking about. Not exactly a 'no competition' thing...but the same affect.

Now find an example in the music business...where some artist or band made a deal that had the same type of affect.

That would make it at least possible. Then give a good explanation of how Perry could release "I Stand Alone", his GH+5, and be a 'guest' on several people's albums....all while he supposedly signed a 'no competition" contract.

[Rockindeano]

Waita minute. Herbie wasn't around during TBF was he? I thought Perry "jettisoned" him out of there..

Herbie seems to have a chip on his shoulder with regards to Perry, but he should probably remember that if it wasn't for Perry, Herbie wouldn't be able to live the life he lived/lives...

A note about Perry. I think personally he is a pussy.

[PROPERRY]

Waita minute. Herbie wasn't around during TBF was he? I thought Perry "jettisoned" him out of there..

Herbie seems to have a chip on his shoulder with regards to Perry, but he should probably remember that if it wasn't for Perry, Herbie wouldn't be able to live the life he lived/lives...

A note about Perry. I think personally he is a pussy.

It's always put ALL the blame on Perry for the reason Herbie was no longer manager of the band, but FAIL to recognize that Neal HAD the power to speak up for Herbie. After all, how many countless interviews have we read of Neal saying this is "MY BAND", so Neal & the others followed along with it, & LET IT HAPPEN.

If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie????? They have to take responsibility for their part for going along with it & letting it happen.

You can think whatever you want of Perry, but did you read Andrew's
post about not making insults?



Lori

[perryfaithful]

..

A note about Perry. I think personally he is a pussy.

So did you tell him that to his face when you met him at the WOF??

[yak]

It's always put ALL the blame on Perry for the reason Herbie was no longer manager of the band, but FAIL to recognize that Neal HAD the power to speak up for Herbie.


If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie?????

You can think whatever you want of Perry, but did you read Andrew's
post about not making insults? Lori

Some things in life are not black and white, no matter how much we would like them to be. If Perry was the control freak many say he was, it could very well have been in his hands. Maybe the band was afraid Perry would bolt if they didn't do what he said. Maybe Perry made this clear to them. Don't understand though, why Jon made any calls for the portuguese god. If it had been made I would have said "You want the call to be made, make it yourself!"

Yes, I believe all who come here can read, though some can read more and better than others. Perhaps you should enlighten your stated fact about no insults upon your Perryite buddies as well. They have taken my name and made fun if it numerous times, not to mention they have made fun of other posters here, and Journey band members.

As for Perry, I have seen on other websites that people in the business have referred to him as a 'prick.'

[jrnyjetster]

If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie????? They have to take responsibility for their part for going along with it & letting it happen.

Because Perry threatened to walk if he didn't get his way...which he ended up doing anyway after Trial By Fire.

[perryfaithful]

When you were HIRED you may have signed a 'no competition' contract...but not when you quit. You don't have to sign anything when you quit.

Not so fast know it all! A Long term employee who becomes valuable with time and was not under any competition contract at hire, can be "lured" away from a competitor into retirement....for a price!

[PROPERRY]

..

A note about Perry. I think personally he is a pussy.

So did you tell him that to his face when you met him at the WOF??

Great Point Perryfaithful! I thought Rock'ndeano was a fan of Perry's???

Lori

[yak]

Not so fast know it all! A Long term employee who becomes valuable with time and was not under any competition contract at hire, can be "lured" away from a competitor into retirement....for a price!

Knock it off with the insults. Monker is one of the most knowledgable posters on this board. If he's wrong about something, he says as much. Though being wrong on his part is a rarity.

The key here would be A Long term employee who becomes valuable with time. This would NOT describe Perry!

And before you tell me you were not talking to me...DUH-UH...I am just commenting as a poster on this board on what you said. I'm sure Monker will address you in good time.

[PROPERRY]

If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie????? They have to take responsibility for their part for going along with it & letting it happen.

Because Perry threatened to walk if he didn't get his way...which he ended up doing anyway after Trial By Fire.

Even IF perry threatened to walk away as you say, then Neal & Co still have to take responsibility for Herbie not being there. They still made the decision to go along with it & let it happen!

As I said before, Neal has stated many times in interviews that this was HIS band! Neal had the power to speak up on behalf of Herbie, regardless IF Perry walked away or not! They evidently chose to keep Perry, but now blame him for THEIR OWN lack of ability to stand up for Herbie!

Personally, I'm VERY HAPPY they chose to keep Perry. I believe that worked out BEST for all the fans!!!


Lori

[The_Noble_Cause]

but he should probably remember that if it wasn't for Perry, Herbie wouldn't be able to live the life he lived/lives.

By the same token, if it wasn't for Herbie, neither could Perry.
Herbie was the chief proponent of getting Perry in the band. Perry was reluctant to even meet with Herbie because he was disillusioned with the music biz (after Alien Project fell through). Herbie believed in Perry so much that he went so far as to cover Steve's paycheck for a week just so the guy could come out and talk things over.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Personally, I'm VERY HAPPY they chose to keep Perry. I believe that worked out BEST for all the fans!!!

How so?
All we got out of the deal was a cock tease.
Tons of hype & mega publicity about the band reuniting, but then no tour to back it up.
Where's the beef?

If the guys had stuck to their guns and kept Chalfant and Rolie (as planned), Journey could have hit the road alot sooner that 1998.
If anything bringing Perry back into the fold was a major set back.

The only good thing out of the deal was we got a decent Journey record in the form of TBF.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie????? They have to take responsibility for their part for going along with it & letting it happen.

Because Perry threatened to walk if he didn't get his way...which he ended up doing anyway after Trial By Fire.

And it should be noted that after Perry did walk, Neal and Jon (according to Herbie) contacted him to come back and manage them, but for whatever reasons (maybe spite, maybe old age), Herbie declined.

[PROPERRY]

If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie????? They have to take responsibility for their part for going along with it & letting it happen.

Because Perry threatened to walk if he didn't get his way...which he ended up doing anyway after Trial By Fire.

And it should be noted that after Perry did walk, Neal and Jon (according to Herbie) contacted him to come back and manage them, but for whatever reasons (maybe spite, maybe old age), Herbie declined.

Well IF that is true, that Neal & Jon contacted Herbie After Perry was NO longer in the band. It is understandable why Herbie would decline to come back to manage Journey because THEY WAITED until Perry was gone to ask Herbie to come back to Journey.


Lori

[The_Noble_Cause]

If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie????? They have to take responsibility for their part for going along with it & letting it happen.

Because Perry threatened to walk if he didn't get his way...which he ended up doing anyway after Trial By Fire.

And it should be noted that after Perry did walk, Neal and Jon (according to Herbie) contacted him to come back and manage them, but for whatever reasons (maybe spite, maybe old age), Herbie declined.

Well IF that is true, that Neal & Jon contacted Herbie After Perry was NO longer in the band. It is understandable why Herbie would decline to come back to manage Journey because THEY WAITED until Perry was gone to ask Herbie to come back to Journey.


Lori

Maybe. But considering the band fired Herbie only once Perry showed up, leads me to believe that Herbie was still on board to manage the Perry-less version of Journey (featuring Kevin & Gregg) which was under way until TBF happened. So I don't think the lack of Perry was a deciding factor. Seems to me Herbie would've remained the band's manager if Perry hadn't shown up and stipulated that he be replaced. Herbie speaks further on why he didn't accept to manage them in his interview.

[Rockindeano]

Perry fans- I am a fan of Steve Perry. Always have been and always will be... However...

When I said, "Perry had Herbie jettisoned" that was a direct quote from the BTM movie....I just didn't make that up..

By the way, Neal and Cain SHOULD have stood up to Perry about the Herbie thing, but remember who "had the reigns?" Yeah, but I almost forgot, "He didn't feel like he was part of the Band." No, not at all, he just fired one of the best drummers in the world, and his bassist, and their manager who did so much for them.. Goddammit, I am starting to literally hate Perry for all his bullshit. If that guy didn't have the best voice God created, I would hate him, but he does, and I don't...yet, anyway.

Also, when I said Perry was a pussy, that is MY HONEST opinion...I think he was bullshitting everyone about the phantom hip injury.....again, just my opinion. But I see athletes endure things and they still play...I see co-workers get hurt, and they still work, and I see a great singer make tireless excuses for everything!

Go ahead Lori, PRO Perry and everyone else, light me up, but you know what, calling him a pussy isn't an insult, it's an opinion and it's correct too.

I originally wasn't going to get into this shitty thread, but I'm involved now and will retort anyone...I am fuming

[heardonthestreet]

Don't be so stupid Deno. None of it happened that way, not even the fireing bit. You should go back and reread some of the old interviews about ROR, especially Smitty's. Don't believe all the bullshit. What the hell makes you think that Perry would even give Journey the time of day when some of you dumb assed fans post the way you do. You don't know the facts. No one does. You all diss the crap out of him and you want him to get on stage with the band to sing and write music with them?You soak up gossip like an old lady.

[jrnyman28]

Waita minute. Herbie wasn't around during TBF was he? I thought Perry "jettisoned" him out of there..

Yes, Perry fired him! Perry wanted Irving Azoff based on what Irving was able to do with the Eagles Reunion. It would have been a good move IF Perry had been able to continue with the reunion.

Herbie seems to have a chip on his shoulder with regards to Perry, but he should probably remember that if it wasn't for Perry, Herbie wouldn't be able to live the life he lived/lives...

That's funny, without Perry Herbie couldn't live the life he lives...yet without Herbie coercing Perry and Journey together Perry would probably (can't say for sure) not have returned to the music business. It was Herbie's decision to hire Perry, therefore it is Herbie who allowed himself to live the life he lives.

A note about Perry. I think personally he is a pussy.

That comment was not necessary...

[jrnyman28]

If Neal & the others were so against Herbie leaving, then why didn't Neal or any of the others speak up for Herbie????? They have to take responsibility for their part for going along with it & letting it happen.

That is true. BUT, Perry was holding the strings because if he didn't get his way he could walk out on the guys again. I think they all saw the chance they had, I think NEal and Jon wanted to make it work at the time, I think they tried to keep Perry happy. And honestly, it would have been a good move IF Perry could have continued with the reunion.

[jrnyman28]

The key here would be A Long term employee who becomes valuable with time. This would NOT describe Perry!

Oh, I think it does describe Perry. At least up to a point. I think Perry may have gone past "valuable" when could no longer tour with the band. But up until his 'injury', Perry had been a long-term employee who became valuable.

[jrnyman28]

Neal had the power to speak up on behalf of Herbie, regardless IF Perry walked away or not! They evidently chose to keep Perry, but now blame him for THEIR OWN lack of ability to stand up for Herbie!

I have said the same thing. Neal chose Perry over Aynsley, over Gregg, over Ross, over Smitty, over Herbie, and then over Smitty and Gregg and Kevin Chalfant. Is it any wonder that Neal obviously hit his limit when Perry 'couldn't' tour?

I haven't seen Neal or Jon blaming Perry concerning Herbie. Although many of us fans do.

[jrnyman28]

Perry was reluctant to even meet with Herbie because he was disillusioned with the music biz (after Alien Project fell through).

To be fair, it wasn't that Alien Project fell through...it was the death of a band member, friend, and key ingredient to the band.

[jrnyman28]

Goddammit, I am starting to literally hate Perry for all his bullshit. If that guy didn't have the best voice God created, I would hate him, but he does, and I don't...yet, anyway.

This may be the case for a LOT of "fans".
I have never taken anything away from Perry's talents. Even after the changes in his voice. But as a person in the business, I do not like what he has done. Love the voice, don't like the business man. But, he has atoned for many of his choices...saying he wouldn't do it again or something. Does that make everything OK?

Also, when I said Perry was a pussy, that is MY HONEST opinion...

Yes, you are welcome to your opinion. No, it is not a bash. But it could have been worded a little more PC since this is a public forum.

I originally wasn't going to get into this shitty thread, but I'm involved now and will retort anyone...I am fuming

Kind of sucks you in, don't it!

[jrnyman28]

Don't be so stupid Deno. None of it happened that way, not even the fireing bit.

Really? Could you enlighten me a bit, because from whatI saw on BTM it is pretty clear. Smitty may be able to say that he really wasn't right for what Perry wanted...but that doesn't change the fact that Perry had Smitty fired because Smitty wasn't what Perry wanted. Ross' issues were different, but it was still Perry who had him "let go".

So if there is something else, I really would like to see it. (but let's remember that if they are interviews from the ROR promotion, OF COURSE Journey would paint a prettier/positive picture about it!!)

You don't know the facts. No one does.

If no one does, then how do you kow that this is all dumb ass crap?

[PROPERRY]

Perry fans- I am a fan of Steve Perry. Always have been and always will be... However...

When I said, "Perry had Herbie jettisoned" that was a direct quote from the BTM movie....I just didn't make that up..

By the way, Neal and Cain SHOULD have stood up to Perry about the Herbie thing, but remember who "had the reigns?" Yeah, but I almost forgot, "He didn't feel like he was part of the Band." No, not at all, he just fired one of the best drummers in the world, and his bassist, and their manager who did so much for them.. Goddammit, I am starting to literally hate Perry for all his bullshit. If that guy didn't have the best voice God created, I would hate him, but he does, and I don't...yet, anyway.

Also, when I said Perry was a pussy, that is MY HONEST opinion...I think he was bullshitting everyone about the phantom hip injury.....again, just my opinion. But I see athletes endure things and they still play...I see co-workers get hurt, and they still work, and I see a great singer make tireless excuses for everything!

Go ahead Lori, PRO Perry and everyone else, light me up, but you know what, calling him a pussy isn't an insult, it's an opinion and it's correct too.

I originally wasn't going to get into this shitty thread, but I'm involved now and will retort anyone...I am fuming

Well, I still like Perryfaithful's question to you. Did you say all this stuff above to Perry's face when you met him at the WOF?

By the way, I'm sure glad I'm ABLE to keep my cool, and not let my emotions get the best of me & resort to calling ANYONE names.


Lori