Rolie or Cain?

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:25 am

Pretty self explanatory.

Rolie or Cain?

Whom do you prefer (and whom do you wish was with the band currently)?

Discuss.

by **jrnyman28** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:01 pm

Jonathan Cain brought the POP success to Journey. His songwriting and piano playing fueled Journey's biggest hits. And on ROR he was the perfect songwriting partner for Perry because they both wanted "radio" songs.

But I pick Gregg Rolie. While he was with the band JOurney was much more adventurous. They were a little less structured although they had already begun to move toward songs more than jams. I love the warmth of the Hammond B3 and I miss the more blues-influenced sound of Journey's rock. Gregg's vocals were not spectacular but they were appropriate. His voice also gave the perfect room for Perry. Perry's voice sounded that much more 'angelic' next to Gregg's more earthy sound. It was the best of both (or all) worlds when Gregg was in the band.

The idea that Journey had reformed with Gregg AND Jon in the band seemed like another melding of the best of all worlds to me. To have Jon's piano and songwriting, with Gregg's feel and organ, with Smitty on drums and Neal on guitar seems like heaven to me.

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:11 pm

jrnyman28 wrote:Jonathan Cain brought the POP success to Journey. His songwriting and piano playing fueled Journey's biggest hits. And on ROR he was the perfect songwriting partner for Perry because they both wanted "radio" songs.

But I pick Gregg Rolie. While he was with the band JOurney was much more adventurous. They were a little less structured although they had already begun to move toward songs more than jams. I love the warmth of the Hammond B3 and I miss the more blues-influenced sound of Journey's rock. Gregg's vocals were not spectacular but they were appropriate. His voice also gave the perfect room for Perry. Perry's voice sounded that much more 'angelic' next to Gregg's more earthy sound. It was the best of both (or all) worlds when Gregg was in the band.

The idea that Journey had reformed with Gregg AND Jon in the band seemed like another melding of the best of all worlds to me. To have Jon's piano and songwriting, with Gregg's feel and organ, with Smitty on drums and Neal on guitar seems like heaven to me.

It's a crying shame we never saw the prospective 96 lineup (which was to have included Rolie) come to fruition.
Journey has always featured talented performers no matter the era, but with the combination of both Cain AND Rolie, that particular lineup would have been a powerhouse of unheard of musical adeptness.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Great post!

by **yak** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:30 pm

I would have to agree with what you both have said. Nothing more to add, you have covered it all.

by **Kuroneko1** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:14 pm

I think both musicians are excellent performers and gave their best to Journey. Hard to make a choice really.

by **Abitaman** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:05 pm

Cain is my choice. I relly didn't start liking Journey until Cain came along. Before I always thought Journey had 2 or 3 Good songs a cd, but nothing that great, as a whole (Yes I still feel that way today, but I do like those early cds better now). Cain chaned that. Every cd was a work of art. Perry voice now had someone to write for it, and Perry had a great song writing partner. So Great voice, great guitar, great keys, now cain brought great songs, no wonder Journey took off-ERIC

And to add Rolie is good, my favorite work by him, which I thought was awesome, were the two Storm cds-ERIC

by **Eric** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:49 pm

Rolie....with him comes more respect

by **NealIsGod** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:27 am

Have to go with Jon Cain, simply b/c Neal and Cain have an incredible working relationship. Neal never had a relationship this good with Rolie. Not to discount Rolie, but Neal and Jon are a great team.

by **jrnyman28** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:47 am

NealIsGod wrote:Have to go with Jon Cain, simply b/c Neal and Cain have an incredible working relationship. Neal never had a relationship this good with Rolie. Not to discount Rolie, but Neal and Jon are a great team.

I don't know if I can agree that Neal and Gregg never had this good of a working relationship. Neal and Gregg STILL work together. Neal and Gregg built Journey up. They wrote the material together and they toured it relentlessly. I think Gregg may have stayed with the band if A) they slowed down a little; and B) they didn't give Perry so much power. Gregg's official response has always been that he needed a break but there have been MANY allusions to a rift between Gregg and Perry. Neal chose Perry over Gregg.

Sadly, it seems that Neal chose Perry over Aynsley, over Gregg, over Ross AND over Smitty. Neal even chose Perry over Kevin Chalfant, Gregg AND Smitty at the same time. I guess the TBF fiasco was the 'final straw'. Damn it took a lot to get through to Neal.

by **jrnyman28** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:49 am

Abitaman wrote:Cain is my choice. Perry voice now had someone to write for it, and Perry had a great song writing partner. So Great voice, great guitar, great keys, now cain brought great songs, no wonder Journey took off-ERIC

I can agree with that. That is why I always say that Perry got people to hear Journey with his voice, but it was Jon that brought the "success" to the band.

by **Rockindeano** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:38 am

Cain might be the bands, "MVP." That dude can play melodic slow piano, fast tempo keys, harmonica, guitar, vocals, and oh yeah, he can write too.

by **NealIsGod** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:32 am

[/quote]I can agree with that. That is why I always say that Perry got people to hear Journey with his voice, but it was Jon that brought the "success" to the band.[/quote]

Yes, Jon was a huge reason that Journey became legendary with ESC4P3, and Frontiers. Rolie was very good with Journey, but not really on the same level as Jon, IMO.

by **SF-Dano** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:05 am

I look at it as two different eras, maybe 3 when you throw in Perry's presence. The pre-perry Journey was very adventurous and an incredible show of musicianship. Then the Infinity - Captured era was more of the "Bluesy", "Good Time" Rock and Roll feel. Escape and afterward was a more structured rock and eventual pop sound.

I like and enjoy all eras of Journey, mainly because of the solid muscianship through out the years, and yes even still today. If I am forced to choose one, I give the slightest of edges to Gregg Rolie. Just my opinion and taste in music.

However as others have stated, the proposed Journey reunion with both Rollie and Cain would have been the ultimate for me

, and I think many other fans. Too bad it never happened.

by **heardonthestreet** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:24 am

Who knows how many tribute bands there are now for Journey and what era are they paying tribute to? Do they sing any of the songs that Journey has put out in the past seven, eight years? Anybody know? Just curious.

by **jrnyman28** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:43 am

Several do play Augeri material. I think even Frontiers does at times.

by **heardonthestreet** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:18 pm

Yeah Dave, right, but guess what.? They said that Higher Place was a "room clearer" and they like some others, but .........

Oh yes, they do slip in a special. "Oh Sherrie." :wink:

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:22 pm

heardonthestreet wrote:Yeah Dave, right, but guess what.? They said that Higher Place was a "room clearer" and they like some others, but .........

Oh yes, they do slip in a special. "Oh Sherrie."

Wow.
So a Journey tribute band plays alot of older Journey songs.
And Journey with Augeri has yet to have a hit single.
And Neal is Satan.
blah blah blah

Shit or get off the pot already.

Even if all of Journey's succes did come about because of Steve Perry (which it didnt), what does it matter?
The guy has moved on with his life and doesn't want to sing anymore. He is not chomping at the bit trying to get back into Journey.
So what is your point on this board? What are you fighting for? Are you fighting for his side? Well, his side of things is that he is retired and wants to be left alone.

You guys are the greatest practioneers of tautology. Every post is a thinly disguised version of the same damned theme; "the current lineup sucks and hence I must bash it".

I don't care what anyone says. You are not here to express an intelligent opinion or to engage in a civilized debate.
You are here to criticize the band and give a hard time to those who enjoy it.
It's nothing more than trolling.

by **Gaffguitars** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:56 pm

Gregg Rolie versus Jonathan Cain? I have to go with Gregg. I mean Cain is great don't get me wrong. I prefer that bluesy Hammond B-3 over Cains synthesizer any day. Plus Gregg's voice is way better than Cains. Gregg has an excellent full voice. Journey's backing vocals were never the same after Gregg left. It was just Perry layered on top of Perry and so on. Plus Gregg is not likely to write songs like Open Arms and other syrupy sappy adult contemporary lite FM crap. Gregg rocks. When it comes to a classical piano solo then I'll go with Cain but he doesn't need Journey for that. Bring back Gregg. I want to hear Just The Same Way the right way. Plus, even though Cain does a good job with La Raza Del Sol, you gotta miss Gregg on that one. That's his kind of playing.

by **heardonthestreet** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:14 am

I agree with you Gaff. The backup vocals were not as mellow when Rolie left. I wish he had stayed with the band but I liked his vocal style more with Santana. He has a few hits that are on the radio a lot. Cain's interview, on Rockline I believe it was, told me that things were going to change if he had his way. The band might have kept more of a hard rock style if Rolie has stuck with it, in my opinion.

by **jrnyjetster** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:35 am

What I miss most about the Rolie era are those vocal harmonies and of course, the Hammond B3!

I respect and appreciate what Jon Cain has brought to this band equally, as well.

I think it would be absolutely awesome to see Gregg Rolie back on stage with Journey this summer...I hope he accepts his invitation!

by **SF-Dano** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:02 am

Rollie got an invitation too. I did not hear that. That would be absolutely awesome. Gregg's last solo effort "Roots" really kicked ass. And I have heard that his live show is great.
In away I am kind of surprised Gregg hasn't been back in the band sooner. There was the proposed reunion prior to TBF, but no real talk about him being included in the current lineup. Could Gregg have problems with someone else in the band? Or is it maybe a case of not wanting to step on some one elses shoes by rejoining? Interested to hear speculation as to why Gregg has not rejoined Journey as of yet.

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:08 am

SF-DANO wrote: Could Gregg have problems with someone else in the band? Or is it maybe a case of not wanting to step on some one elses shoes by rejoining? Interested to hear speculation as to why Gregg has not rejoined Journey as of yet.

When Journey was out doing radio visits to promote Arrival, one of the DJ's asked about Gregg. Ross said Sony wanted the new lineup to most resemble the band's most succesful lineup, that of course being the one from the ESCAPE era (which did not include Gregg).

As to why Gregg hasn't rejoined Journey now that they have left (or been fired) from Sony, your guess is as good as mine. I feel that he doesn't want to join Journey for the same reasons why he politely declined to re-join Kevin for a 3rd Storm cd (which later became the two Fires "Ignition" cd); he is much too busy with his solo work.

by **jrnyman28** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:35 am

Gregg was on board before the TBF reunion.
Sony wanted the Escape era line-up for the 'reunion'.
I wonder if Gregg was a little upset that Neal and Jon said OK to Perry coming back in...ultimately Neal and Jon chose (yet again!) Perry over Gregg. That has to be tough.

I know Gregg has said several times that Journey-style music is not where he is at right now. "Roots" was a big thing for him...a return to where he started, a little removed from the pop-rock that Journey (and The Storm) was doing. Then again, his actions have contradicted this a little, since he continues to have Kevin guest and play some Journey and Storm tunes. I guess he can't ignore that part of his history, but he doesn't want it to be the sole focus either.

Gregg seems very happy being his own man.

by **nimbus** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:07 pm

jrnyman28 wrote:Several do play Augeri material. I think even Frontiers does at times.

we [frontiers] don't - we focus exclusively on perry-era journey. pretty much for the simple reason that you have to stay focused and know what your audience wants to hear. we've never deviated from that, there's no agenda there, it's just that a) i sing like steve perry and (b) our target audience is not the sort of journey fan who regularly visits backtalk or melodicrock.com, it's that broad slice of the populace that remembers "don't stop believin'" or "open arms" (or has heard it on the radio in perpetuity for the past 25 years).

by **nimbus** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:36 am

i also prefer jonathan cain. i think he is a better songwriter overall than gregg, though i do think gregg has an organic sincerity to his playing that cain (for the most part) lacks.

by **Gaffguitars** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:42 am

nimbus wrote: though i do think gregg has an organic sincerity to his playing that cain (for the most part) lacks.

Just out of curiosity, what is "organic sincerity"?

by **nimbus** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:43 am

it means that gregg rolie has a more organic feel to his playing through the expression and sounds that he uses versus most of the material that jonathan cain plays on. piano on "wheel in the sky" versus the prophet on "separate ways," the hammond b-3 sounds on "any way you want it" versus the sounds on "girl can't help it." it's more the seventies versus the eighties thing is the best way i can put it, if you really want to know.

by **Gaffguitars** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:44 pm

nimbus wrote:it means that gregg rolie has a more organic feel to his playing through the expression and sounds that he uses versus most of the material that jonathan cain plays on. piano on "wheel in the sky" versus the prophet on "separate ways," the hammond b-3 sounds on "any way you want it" versus the sounds on "girl can't help it." it's more the seventies versus the eighties thing is the best way i can put it, if you really want to know.

I thought that's what you meant. And I agree.

by **Hippie** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:30 am

Hard choice!

I've always loved Rolie's voice and definitely prefer the Rolie discs to Cain's.

However, Cain is a great keyboard player in his own right; ANDhe plays rhythm guitar. So they're actually more versatile with Cain (and have more ROCK potential!).

Still, I think my druthers would be to have Rolie back.

Plus, I thought I read somewhere that Augeri plays a little guitar as well. We could have the best of both worlds!!!

by **jrnyman28** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:34 am

Hippie wrote:Hard choice!

I've always loved Rolie's voice and definitely prefer the Rolie discs to Cain's.

However, Cain is a great keyboard player in his own right; ANDhe plays rhythm guitar. So they're actually more versatile with Cain (and have more ROCK potential!).

Still, I think my druthers would be to have Rolie back.

Plus, I thought I read somewhere that Augeri plays a little guitar as well. We could have the best of both worlds!!!

VERY TRUE!
And imagine if the pre-TBF line-up had stuck together....

MR

Rolie or Cain?

Rolie or Cain?

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