Had an intersting discussion on religion at work today.

[conversationpc]

If I don't see things your way, I am dumb, delusional, etc.

[sarcasm]Nah, there's no indoctrination coming from the atheist viewpoint, is there?[/sarcasm]

[artist4perry]

If I don't see things your way, I am dumb, delusional, etc.

[sarcasm]Nah, there's no indoctrination coming from the atheist viewpoint, is there?[/sarcasm]

Heaven forbid! LOL! Good night!

[iLex]

My question still stands. Can anyone answer these questions please?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&fmt=18

And I'll add 2...
Is the catholic church still discriminating gay people?
Does the catholic church still thinks it's a sin to use condoms? (in order to fight AIDS in Africa)

You still haven't answered my question about why it is so important to knock religion,

Because religion is hurting us as a species in many ways.

Not all religions believe in modern day miracles.

They all believe in some kind of book of miracles, bible, koran, whatever.
And really, get a grip, there's no such thing as magic, not now and not 2000 years ago!!!
There is absolute NO reason whatsoever for a sensible person to assume there is.

Now, can you answer mine...

My question still stands. Can anyone answer these questions please?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&fmt=18

And I'll add 2...
Is the catholic church still discriminating gay people?
Does the catholic church still thinks it's a sin to use condoms? (in order to fight AIDS in Africa)

[MartyMoffatt]

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thread so I’m not sure if this point has already been brought up or not, but my reasoning on religion is as follows:-

• There are dozens of major religions around the world, and hundreds if not thousands of variants on these.
• Each and every one of these religions has its followers and people who believe absolutely that it is the one true religion.
• Many of these religions, if not most, are mutually incompatible. If one is right the other is wrong.
• Therefore it’s reasonable to assume that most of them MUST be wrong, or at best misinterpreted.
• If any one of them IS wrong, despite it’s followers believing absolutely in its truth, who’s to say they are not ALL wrong.
• Anyone who asks me to believe in their religion, on faith, is basically asking me to assume that the vast majority of people in the world is stupid to believe in a false religion.

This doesn’t prove that all religions are false, but it raises enough doubt in my mind to put the burden of proof on those advocating their ‘truth’. Prove to me that your religion is true and maybe I’ll be converted. Just don’t ask me to take it on faith. And therein lies the problem. With all religions there is no tangible proof and faith is the key ingredient.

That’s why I remain an agnostic bordering on atheism.

[iLex]

• There are dozens of major religions around the world, and hundreds if not thousands of variants on these.
• Each and every one of these religions has its followers and people who believe absolutely that it is the one true religion.
• Many of these religions, if not most, are mutually incompatible. If one is right the other is wrong.
• Therefore it’s reasonable to assume that most of them MUST be wrong, or at best misinterpreted.
• If any one of them IS wrong, despite it’s followers believing absolutely in its truth, who’s to say they are not ALL wrong.
• Anyone who asks me to believe in their religion, on faith, is basically asking me to assume that the vast majority of people in the world is stupid to believe in a false religion.

Perfectly captured as we know you can
These thoughts are exactly what caused my first conflict with the religion I grew up with.

[etcetera]

My question still stands. Can anyone answer these questions please?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&fmt=18

And I'll add 2...
Is the catholic church still discriminating gay people?
Does the catholic church still thinks it's a sin to use condoms? (in order to fight AIDS in Africa)

The YT clip's taking forever to load at the moment, but as far as the additional 2 are concerned (although I'm quite certain that you know the answers ),...

Catholicism recognizes only the male and female sexes, and it in no way condones any form of artificial birth control. Being either gay or lesbian, and resorting to contraception through means other than the natural methods, are both sins to repent for and formally confess to.

[iLex]

My question still stands. Can anyone answer these questions please?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&fmt=18

And I'll add 2...
Is the catholic church still discriminating gay people?
Does the catholic church still thinks it's a sin to use condoms? (in order to fight AIDS in Africa)

The YT clip's taking forever to load at the moment, but as far as the additional 2 are concerned (although I'm quite certain that you know the answers ),...

Yes and no, I could only hope it changed for the better. There's so many interpretations of so many churches that it was worth the question.

Catholicism recognizes only the male and female sexes, and it in no way condones any form of artificial birth control. Being either gay or lesbian, and resorting to contraception through means other than the natural methods, are both sins to repent for and formally confess to.

Totally retarded! And it just proves my previous point ...religion is hurting us as a species in many ways.

[Enigma869]

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thread so I’m not sure if this point has already been brought up or not, but my reasoning on religion is as follows:-

• There are dozens of major religions around the world, and hundreds if not thousands of variants on these.
• Each and every one of these religions has its followers and people who believe absolutely that it is the one true religion.
• Many of these religions, if not most, are mutually incompatible. If one is right the other is wrong.
• Therefore it’s reasonable to assume that most of them MUST be wrong, or at best misinterpreted.
• If any one of them IS wrong, despite it’s followers believing absolutely in its truth, who’s to say they are not ALL wrong.
• Anyone who asks me to believe in their religion, on faith, is basically asking me to assume that the vast majority of people in the world is stupid to believe in a false religion.

This doesn’t prove that all religions are false, but it raises enough doubt in my mind to put the burden of proof on those advocating their ‘truth’. Prove to me that your religion is true and maybe I’ll be converted. Just don’t ask me to take it on faith. And therein lies the problem. With all religions there is no tangible proof and faith is the key ingredient.

That’s why I remain an agnostic bordering on atheism.

This is the absolute best post in this entire thread! Spot on, dude! I wish I could have summed up my feelings so succinctly! It is so true (and therefore ridiculous to my logical mind) that if you really believe in one religion, that means all the rest of them (in your mind) are absolutely false and just made up. That notion has always defied logic. The only thing, at all, that ever gives me pause to think is how the hell we all got here to begin with, but that's a different thought for a different time!


John from Boston

[Greg]

I still wonder what the purpose of all this is. It seems some wish to find fault in religion, or religious people. I personally thought this thread was do you beleive? I am not trying to convert anyone. But I sure feel the pressure of atheistic thoughts being pressed on me. If I don't see things your way, I am dumb, delusional, etc. Conversationpc it has been fun talking to you. I think if people can discuss their thoughts without blowing a gasket or feeling the need to insult or belittle others for not looking at life the way they do, they might be more fun to talk to.

THIS is the post of the thread! Very spot on, indeed!

[Rhiannon]

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thread so I’m not sure if this point has already been brought up or not, but my reasoning on religion is as follows:-

• There are dozens of major religions around the world, and hundreds if not thousands of variants on these.
• Each and every one of these religions has its followers and people who believe absolutely that it is the one true religion.
• Many of these religions, if not most, are mutually incompatible. If one is right the other is wrong.
• Therefore it’s reasonable to assume that most of them MUST be wrong, or at best misinterpreted.
• If any one of them IS wrong, despite it’s followers believing absolutely in its truth, who’s to say they are not ALL wrong.
• Anyone who asks me to believe in their religion, on faith, is basically asking me to assume that the vast majority of people in the world is stupid to believe in a false religion.

This doesn’t prove that all religions are false, but it raises enough doubt in my mind to put the burden of proof on those advocating their ‘truth’. Prove to me that your religion is true and maybe I’ll be converted. Just don’t ask me to take it on faith. And therein lies the problem. With all religions there is no tangible proof and faith is the key ingredient.

That’s why I remain an agnostic bordering on atheism.

Ah, yes... but you don't have to be a follower of doctrine in order to believe in a higher power. Most times, you can look life and tell that there is something bigger than us all at work. You don't have to tithe it, you don't have to fall to your knees five times a day. There's just some little inkling inside that almost gives you your own personal proof that there is a God. I've had way too many personal experiences to be agnostic or atheist, things happen that I can't fathom. I don't believe in coincidences.

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.) but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic.

But then again, I'm also the girl who can see God through a microscope.

[bluejeangirl76]

Ah, yes... but you don't have to be a follower of doctrine in order to believe in a higher power. Most times, you can look life and tell that there is something bigger than us all at work. You don't have to tithe it, you don't have to fall to your knees five times a day. There's just some little inkling inside that almost gives you your own personal proof that there is a God. I've had way too many personal experiences to be agnostic or atheist, things happen that I can't fathom. I don't believe in coincidences.

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.) but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic.

Don't think I didn't check on that.

No results found for survivalistic:
Did you mean survivalist ic (in dictionary) or Survivalist (in reference)?

But I like your post.

[Rhiannon]

Ah, yes... but you don't have to be a follower of doctrine in order to believe in a higher power. Most times, you can look life and tell that there is something bigger than us all at work. You don't have to tithe it, you don't have to fall to your knees five times a day. There's just some little inkling inside that almost gives you your own personal proof that there is a God. I've had way too many personal experiences to be agnostic or atheist, things happen that I can't fathom. I don't believe in coincidences.

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.) but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic.

Don't think I didn't check on that.

No results found for survivalistic:
Did you mean survivalist ic (in dictionary) or Survivalist (in reference)?

But I like your post.

I MAKE MY OWN WORDS!!! Especially when I think they should be words to begin with. It are all pieceifications of my linguisticalesque stategery.

[iceberg]

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thread so I’m not sure if this point has already been brought up or not, but my reasoning on religion is as follows:-

• There are dozens of major religions around the world, and hundreds if not thousands of variants on these.
• Each and every one of these religions has its followers and people who believe absolutely that it is the one true religion.
• Many of these religions, if not most, are mutually incompatible. If one is right the other is wrong.
• Therefore it’s reasonable to assume that most of them MUST be wrong, or at best misinterpreted.
• If any one of them IS wrong, despite it’s followers believing absolutely in its truth, who’s to say they are not ALL wrong.
• Anyone who asks me to believe in their religion, on faith, is basically asking me to assume that the vast majority of people in the world is stupid to believe in a false religion.

This doesn’t prove that all religions are false, but it raises enough doubt in my mind to put the burden of proof on those advocating their ‘truth’. Prove to me that your religion is true and maybe I’ll be converted. Just don’t ask me to take it on faith. And therein lies the problem. With all religions there is no tangible proof and faith is the key ingredient.

That’s why I remain an agnostic bordering on atheism.

oh, that's as good a capture as any i suppose. i was raised roman catholic but through my own research and anger (we were all young, angry and searching for our own religion at one point. now i'm older, angry and apathetic. is apathy a religion? i never had the desire to go look) i just decided that no ONE religion is right. i'm not even sure religion is right anymore but that's me. if it makes you happy and what you choose to believe in, i DO believe i should support that and give the respect i would like to have.

doesn't always work out that way but in the end we're all reading the same books and documents over it all and we all walk away with our own interpretation. those less secure in their faith attack another i've found. those more secure in their own faith ride it out and let it go.

i don't know if there's a God or if God is just something we all need to believe in to give us a purpose beyond our living years. (ooh - another song to play!) but if life is get up, go to work, watch tv, go to bed and get up and do it again with a few weeks here and there for seeing branson mo or something, what's the point? maybe that's why we need religion to simply get us through life when we have nothing else.

i do know it's too early in the am for this and w/o my last energy drink i'd be lost right now. back to work.

[artist4perry]

I am not Catholic so constantly asking me about Catholic doctrine is stupid.
As for modern day miracles, I never claimed to believe in them, many don't.
As for all your insistant drivil that you are superior in intelegence because you believe I am wrong, but have no real proof I am wrong, I am yawning at the prospect.
As I said I did not come on here to convert you.
Please stop trying to force your beliefs on me.
I am just as disinterested.
Like it or not, people beleive in God, and have the Constitutional right to.
Giving questions to me from a confirmed Atheist( Who by the way was so boring, and patronizing I had to turn it off) to try and sway my faith did not work.
I do not want to, nor will I convert to your way of thinking.
I love you and wish you well.
Have a good day!

[Enigma869]

I love you and wish you well.

Does your husband know that you love this many people


John from Boston

[Arianddu]

ARGH!! This thread is like a fucking car wreck! I keep telling myself "don't read it" but I can't not look!

[iLex]

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.)

Actually the process of how matter becomes life is called "abiogenesis"!
Here's a really good movie about it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP ... ted&fmt=18

but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic. .

We see many animals care about each other too, helping each other, sharing food, etc. Our brain is more complex thus so is our emotional life.
I know people love the idea that love, considered our most noble emotion, comes from a "higher" place but it doesn't. Think about the love you've felt for your ex-boyfriend ...not so divine anymore, is it?
No seriously, it's all in our brain. Brain damage can turn each one of us into an emotionless psychopath. (doesn't mean dangerous)
Even out-of-body experiences can be created by brain stimulation...
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21907/

[artist4perry]

I love you and wish you well.

Does your husband know that you love this many people


John from Boston

Yes, Ha! It is called Agape love~ to love others more than yourself. Not Eros~ sexual

[RossValoryRocks]

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.)

Actually the process of how matter becomes life is called "abiogenesis"!
Here's a really good movie about it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP ... ted&fmt=18

but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic. .

We see many animals care about each other too, helping each other, sharing food, etc. Our brain is more complex thus so is our emotional life.
I know people love the idea that love, considered our most noble emotion, comes from a "higher" place but it doesn't. Think about the love you've felt for your ex-boyfriend ...not so divine anymore, is it?
No seriously, it's all in our brain. Brain damage can turn each one of us into an emotionless psychopath. (doesn't mean dangerous)
Even out-of-body experiences can be created by brain stimulation...
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21907/

I have an idea...go be a happy atheist...and quit ragging on Christians and other faiths? Is that too much to ask?? No one here is proselytizing to you, unless you consider people making declarations of thier faith as such. What you are doing is rude, and it is uncalled for.

[Enigma869]

Yes, Ha! It is called Agape love~ to love others more than yourself. Not Eros~ sexual

Thanks for the enlightenment! I think that I'm much more of an Eros kind of a guy


John from Boston

[artist4perry]

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.)

Actually the process of how matter becomes life is called "abiogenesis"!
Here's a really good movie about it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP ... ted&fmt=18

but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic. .

We see many animals care about each other too, helping each other, sharing food, etc. Our brain is more complex thus so is our emotional life.
I know people love the idea that love, considered our most noble emotion, comes from a "higher" place but it doesn't. Think about the love you've felt for your ex-boyfriend ...not so divine anymore, is it?
No seriously, it's all in our brain. Brain damage can turn each one of us into an emotionless psychopath. (doesn't mean dangerous)
Even out-of-body experiences can be created by brain stimulation...
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21907/

*Yoda"s voice* To the darkside I will not turn! LOL!



[/img]

[artist4perry]

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.)

Actually the process of how matter becomes life is called "abiogenesis"!
Here's a really good movie about it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP ... ted&fmt=18

but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic. .

We see many animals care about each other too, helping each other, sharing food, etc. Our brain is more complex thus so is our emotional life.
I know people love the idea that love, considered our most noble emotion, comes from a "higher" place but it doesn't. Think about the love you've felt for your ex-boyfriend ...not so divine anymore, is it?
No seriously, it's all in our brain. Brain damage can turn each one of us into an emotionless psychopath. (doesn't mean dangerous)
Even out-of-body experiences can be created by brain stimulation...
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21907/

I have an idea...go be a happy atheist...and quit ragging on Christians and other faiths? Is that too much to ask?? No one here is proselytizing to you, unless you consider people making declarations of thier faith as such. What you are doing is rude, and it is uncalled for.

My sentiments exactly!

[artist4perry]

Yes, Ha! It is called Agape love~ to love others more than yourself. Not Eros~ sexual

Thanks for the enlightenment! I think that I'm much more of an Eros kind of a guy


John from Boston

John I may not always agree with you, but I appreciate you keeping it civil with me. I mean no harm in my discussions.

[artist4perry]

Ah, yes... but you don't have to be a follower of doctrine in order to believe in a higher power. Most times, you can look life and tell that there is something bigger than us all at work. You don't have to tithe it, you don't have to fall to your knees five times a day. There's just some little inkling inside that almost gives you your own personal proof that there is a God. I've had way too many personal experiences to be agnostic or atheist, things happen that I can't fathom. I don't believe in coincidences.

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.) but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic.

Don't think I didn't check on that.

No results found for survivalistic:
Did you mean survivalist ic (in dictionary) or Survivalist (in reference)?

But I like your post.

I MAKE MY OWN WORDS!!! Especially when I think they should be words to begin with. It are all pieceifications of my linguisticalesque stategery.

Say that three times fast! LOVE IT, RHI. YO De Bomb!

[Rhiannon]

My own proof of the existence of God is in the fact that science touts we came from primal sludge (Maybe... I wasn't there, I don't know.)

Actually the process of how matter becomes life is called "abiogenesis"!
Here's a really good movie about it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP ... ted&fmt=18

but yet, we have the capacity to love and feel and suffer and have personal growth. We have what I can only describe as a soul. Or else everyone would only ever marry for procreative purposes and be apathetic towards everyone and everything that wasn't survivalistic. .

We see many animals care about each other too, helping each other, sharing food, etc. Our brain is more complex thus so is our emotional life.
I know people love the idea that love, considered our most noble emotion, comes from a "higher" place but it doesn't. Think about the love you've felt for your ex-boyfriend ...not so divine anymore, is it?
No seriously, it's all in our brain. Brain damage can turn each one of us into an emotionless psychopath. (doesn't mean dangerous)
Even out-of-body experiences can be created by brain stimulation...
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21907/

As I said, I can see God through a microscope so throwing science at my beliefs is incredulous. I'm by no means trying to get you or anyone to subscribe to my way of thinking. I'm cool with atheists. As I said before, I live with one. And he's just as pompous about it as you are.

Me, well... I'd rather believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong.

[iceberg]

I am not Catholic so constantly asking me about Catholic doctrine is stupid.
As for modern day miracles, I never claimed to believe in them, many don't.
As for all your insistant drivil that you are superior in intelegence because you believe I am wrong, but have no real proof I am wrong, I am yawning at the prospect.
As I said I did not come on here to convert you.
Please stop trying to force your beliefs on me.
I am just as disinterested.
Like it or not, people beleive in God, and have the Constitutional right to.
Giving questions to me from a confirmed Atheist( Who by the way was so boring, and patronizing I had to turn it off) to try and sway my faith did not work.
I do not want to, nor will I convert to your way of thinking.
I love you and wish you well.
Have a good day!

i hope you were not talking to me about this because if so, i need to NOT post until the 3rd energy drink kicks in. : ) from reading back through i don't think so.

i think it's our hearts that allow us to believe in God and carry us forward in faith when nothing else will. there's so many different ways to think and feel on this i get amazed some people tunnel-vision out and never see past what's in front of them.

i may not believe the way you do, but i'll do all i can to defend your right to believe that way because i want the same thing in the end and that's what it's all about. to me.

[Enigma869]

John I may not always agree with you

Nobody here ever does. The great thing is that I prefer it that way! I couldn't get my daily entertainment here if people actually agreed with me!

but I appreciate you keeping it civil with me.

Not a problem. You've always been civil with me, and I reciprocate. I honestly never go after anyone unless they decide they want to come after me, first! Only then, are the gloves coming off

I mean no harm in my discussions.

Nor do I. Whether I agree with someone's position or not, it's always interesting to hear an opposing point of view. Religion is one of those things that always gets people fired up. This is going to sound really odd, but religion is a lot like smoking, in my mind. I practice neither, but certainly believe everyone has a right to practice either, if they feel so inclined. Where they are very similar for me, is that I believe someone's right to practice (smoking or religion) ends when it infringes on someone else's rights, who doesn't wish to be a part of it! I honestly don't care if people smoke themselves into a coma (even though I think it's a disgusting habit), so long as they're not polluting the air I'm breathing, with their toxic smoke. Likewise, I don't have a problem with every religion in the world praying all day long, so long as they aren't preaching to me or infringing upon my desire to not be involved with any organized religion! If smokers keep the pack of Marlboros away from me, and religious folks keep The Bible away from me, I'll be a very happy man


John from Boston

[iLex]

Me, well... I'd rather believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong.

All cool

[iLex]

As for all your insistant drivil that you are superior in intelegence because you believe I am wrong, but have no real proof I am wrong, I am yawning at the prospect.

Where does this irrelevant remark come from? You try to defend your point as good as you can and so do I. That's what discussion boards are all about, not?
By the way, if it can comfort you ...no one will ever be able to disprove the existence of god. It's very well explained in this movie...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07JvzfO0vOk&fmt=18

As I said I did not come on here to convert you.

Neither do I, how strange would that be? That would take a miracle and as you know, that's something I don't believe in

Please stop trying to force your beliefs on me.

I don't, just explaining my take on religion, the origin of life, etc.

I am just as disinterested.

It's your choice to read and reply.

Giving questions to me from a confirmed Atheist (Who by the way was so boring, and patronizing I had to turn it off) to try and sway my faith did not work.

You're talking about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&fmt=18
But these are fair questions. The video is viewed over 3 million times, I'm sure many would like to read good answers on these.

Have a good day!

My day was very good, already night over here. Same to you.

[Behshad]

We see many animals care about each other too, helping each other, sharing food, etc. Our brain is more complex thus so is our emotional life.
I know people love the idea that love, considered our most noble emotion, comes from a "higher" place but it doesn't. Think about the love you've felt for your ex-boyfriend ...not so divine anymore, is it?
No seriously, it's all in our brain. Brain damage can turn each one of us into an emotionless psychopath. (doesn't mean dangerous)
Even out-of-body experiences can be created by brain stimulation...
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21907/

Love is not our most noble emotion, simply because there are animals out there that can have more love and affection towards eachother and towards human beings than some humans do.
The fact that our brain is more complex should be proof enough for you that a higher power, call it what you want, created us, ALL of us . Has nothing to do with religion or culture .