The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[The_Noble_Cause]

NY Times Magazine this weekend has a piece on McCain's campaign.
This behind-the-scenes account of how Palin was picked is especially revealing.

"Having interviewed several of the Senator's chief aides, Draper details the process by which McCain ultimately chose his running mate (New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg was surprisingly high on the list). And the decision may have been even more impulsive than initially thought. Gov. Sarah Palin, who had never been on the VP shortlist, was advanced at the last minute by Schmidt and Rick Davis, and was picked after a less-than-hour-long chat in with McCain at his ranch in Arizona."

[Enigma869]

Great Skylorde, the Republican Party is going to have their Great White Hope, Sarah Palin, run for President next election.

Palin will NEVER be the Republican nominee. That dopey broad will never get through the primary election. Most honest Republicans believe she is every bit of a disaster that most Democrats know she is. The 4 people on this board who think she's Einstein won't be enough to win her any significant votes!


John from Boston

[Skylorde]

Great Skylorde, the Republican Party is going to have their Great White Hope, Sarah Palin, run for President next election. Now, that's something to look forward to for the nation. Thanks. You've given me a lot of comfort.

Actually, I wasn't referring to Palin. On the surface, Palin appeared to have potential...until she opened her mouth. That being said, I still think she has potential to grow. Obviously she's done something right to get this far given her track record & voter approval in her home state.

Comfort? How comforting is the prospect of a quasi Marxist president & socialist majority in Congress taking marching orders by the likes of the Kos, Acorn, Move on, etc? All you need to do is look towards history for the proof that socialism, tried and tried and tried again, will eventually take governments' down.

Unfortunately the reaction of the people, as a whole, to circumstances is not subtle; we always wait until situations become extreme and then knee jerk in the opposite direction. Thus you get the wild pendulum swings of power. The power shift we are seeing now is now is not a vote for the left per se but a punishment imposed on the right for fucking things up. Cut out the hard core left, cut out the hard core right and those that remain decide elections and those remaining have decided to punish Republicans, and rightly so.

[conversationpc]

NY Times Magazine this weekend has a piece on McCain's campaign.
This behind-the-scenes account of how Palin was picked is especially revealing.

"Having interviewed several of the Senator's chief aides, Draper details the process by which McCain ultimately chose his running mate (New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg was surprisingly high on the list). And the decision may have been even more impulsive than initially thought. Gov. Sarah Palin, who had never been on the VP shortlist, was advanced at the last minute by Schmidt and Rick Davis, and was picked after a less-than-hour-long chat in with McCain at his ranch in Arizona."

I'm not sure about the "short list" but she was definitely on the list to begin with.

[conversationpc]

Palin will NEVER be the Republican nominee. That dopey broad will never get through the primary election. Most honest Republicans believe she is every bit of a disaster that most Democrats know she is. The 4 people on this board who think she's Einstein won't be enough to win her any significant votes!

Who thinks she's Einstein?

[conversationpc]

Now it comes out that Ms. "Exectutive", Puppet Palin charged the people of Alaska travel expenses, for her gaggle of children. The children were supposedly on "official business"!

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/p ... 1200696171

It's a non-issue. Even ABC news this morning was saying that it's not against the law or even ethics standards in Alaska. That's not to mention that Palin sold the previous governor's private jet, with which she could've flown her children around and there would never have been a cost reported on it.

[strangegrey]

Skylorde's echoed some of my feelings regarding this, aready.

The fact remains that the republican party needs a HARD reboot. McCain doesn't provide that. In fact, riding the status quo does NOTHING short of prevent that....which I find just as or more offensive than an obama presidency.

There are at least 50% of the current republican leadership that needs to flushed...if not more. They're not carrying out their jobs beholden to true conservative values.

Case in point, a friend of my wife's...who's a bleeding heart if you ever saw one....said something along the lines of "Fiscal Conservatives? Since 1992, I call those people Democrats"

Well, if that isn't a glaring indictment of the fact that true conservatism has either been abandoned by it's own party, adopted by democrats, or a mixture of both...I don't know what to call it.



Another 4 years of Bushonomics, under McPain, would result in a far larger national debt than under Obama.....People like to bitch and moan that Obama's fiscal strategy would be more "spending spending spending"....I find that laughable. The ones doing the massive spending over the past 8 years have been the republicans.

This isn't a disputable issue. It's a fucking fact.

It's been driven home hard by the fact that in order to pass the emergency economic stabilization act of 2008, 150 billion dollars of pork spending was needed just to secure the extra votes in the republican side of the house....if that's not a WTF moment for the conservatives in this country, I can't tell you what is.

[conversationpc]

The fact remains that the republican party needs a HARD reboot. McCain doesn't provide that. In fact, riding the status quo does NOTHING short of prevent that....which I find just as or more offensive than an obama presidency.

I couldn't agree more.

There are at least 50% of the current republican leadership that needs to flushed...if not more. They're not carrying out their jobs beholden to true conservative values.

I actually think it's closer to 75%.

Case in point, a friend of my wife's...who's a bleeding heart if you ever saw one....said something along the lines of "Fiscal Conservatives? Since 1992, I call those people Democrats"

Well, if that isn't a glaring indictment of the fact that true conservatism has either been abandoned by it's own party, adopted by democrats, or a mixture of both...I don't know what to call it.

This I disagree with. I think the Dems have pretty much stayed where they are if they haven't moved even further to the left (see Barney Frank's recent comments about drastically increasing spending and ignoring the deficit).

Another 4 years of Bushonomics, under McPain, would result in a far larger national debt than under Obama.....People like to bitch and moan that Obama's fiscal strategy would be more "spending spending spending"....I find that laughable. The ones doing the massive spending over the past 8 years have been the republicans.

This isn't a disputable issue. It's a fucking fact.

It's been driven home hard by the fact that in order to pass the emergency economic stabilization act of 2008, 150 billion dollars of pork spending was needed just to secure the extra votes in the republican side of the house....if that's not a WTF moment for the conservatives in this country, I can't tell you what is.

Yes, McCain's fiscal "ideas" would increase spending drastically. So would Obama's and even more so, in my opinion.

[strangegrey]

Ok, first Biden talks about crisis..then Madeline Halfbright agrees..and somehow missed was this gem from Gen.Powell Sunday on meet the press....

"Theres going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st,
22nd of January which we don't even know about right now!"

-Colin Powell 10/19/2008

About the 2:40 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LDBOPcHpeo

This pisses me off.

First, if it's just fear mongering, then the Dem's need to shut the fuck up about claiming it's a partisan practice on the part of republicans. Speculation about this sort of thing is *not* smart, nor is it responsible on the part of any party, left or right.


However, if these people know something we dont...and they are either withholding full disclosure until after the election or until the actual issue surfaces, they should ALL (Biden, that pig albright and our trusted bastion of integrity, Colin Powell) find themslves on the business end of a massive charge of treason and shot for their efforts.

[Saint John]

The crisis Powell is referring to is Obama's presidency.

[Skylorde]

Case in point, a friend of my wife's...who's a bleeding heart if you ever saw one....said something along the lines of "Fiscal Conservatives? Since 1992, I call those people Democrats"

I disagree there. For the most part, I think Conservatives in Congress did a pretty decent job of holding the conservative line through the 90's. It wasn't until the 2000 election (and after) that they completely lost their fucking minds.

Another 4 years of Bushonomics, under McPain, would result in a far larger national debt than under Obama.....People like to bitch and moan that Obama's fiscal strategy would be more "spending spending spending"....I find that laughable. The ones doing the massive spending over the past 8 years have been the republicans.

I hope you are right but IMHO we are going to see spending like we've never seen before. The democrat dream of national health care is coming and that'll make Medicare spending seem like a trip to the pharmacy to purchase band aids. Again, I'm not entirely opposed to national health care. Although I don't care to get into the details now, the people who currently DO pay for their own health care plans are paying for all the non-payers anyway through higher premiums AND grossly inflated health care costs.

[Skylorde]

"Theres going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st,
22nd of January which we don't even know about right now!"

-Colin Powell 10/19/2008

Ummm, what in the fuck is he talking about and why are we hearing armageddon like doom and gloom from the left? Are Colon's comments beyond simple speculation, hinting at the fact he knows something the rest of us don't?

[conversationpc]

"Theres going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st,
22nd of January which we don't even know about right now!"

-Colin Powell 10/19/2008

Ummm, what in the fuck is he talking about and why are we hearing armageddon like doom and gloom from the left? Are Colon's comments beyond simple speculation, hinting at the fact he knows something the rest of us don't?

Many foreign policy experts that I've heard have said that there's a high probability that Israel will do something about Iran perhaps BEFORE the new President is inaugurated. If that happens, the entire Middle East could blow up, perhaps even literally. If that happens, God help us, because it will effect almost everything worldwide.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Couldnt agree withe Skylorde, Conversationpc, and Strangegrey more.
Got an absentee ballot the oher day. MN sends em by email. I printed one copy out filling in Bob Barr and the Libertarians in and the other with McCains name in. Couldnt for the life of me decide which one to throw away and which one to send in

McCain wins-you get the same creep to big govt an no one stands up to it.
Obama wins -you get there in fast foward mode , and who knows what other damage gets done to the country.

In my mind the "who knows what other damage gets done to the country element" has to be the decider.

[strangegrey]

Case in point, a friend of my wife's...who's a bleeding heart if you ever saw one....said something along the lines of "Fiscal Conservatives? Since 1992, I call those people Democrats"

Well, if that isn't a glaring indictment of the fact that true conservatism has either been abandoned by it's own party, adopted by democrats, or a mixture of both...I don't know what to call it.

This I disagree with. I think the Dems have pretty much stayed where they are if they haven't moved even further to the left (see Barney Frank's recent comments about drastically increasing spending and ignoring the deficit).

I'm not sure I entirely agree with it either...there are some democrats of a rank/file variety that are very much old school carter-esque democrats, that are as fiscally irresponsible as a tech-hungry high school student with daddy's gold card. That's not what I'm driving at, however.

The fact truly remains that the repobucan party spend over the past 8 years, in much the same fashion I describe the above high school student. This isn't up for dispute. While democrats have done the same....Clinton was certainly FAR more fiscally conservative than Bush EVER was...


This artucle reflects my current views on the state of the republican party to a huge T. While I realize most liberal/democrats that contribute to this forum either don't like Jonah Goldberg or if they don't know him, likely don't read NRO. However, I'll submit that they'll find some worth in reading the article as well.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OWVhOTY3MGYwM2U3YzYwMjg5YTgxNDI0ODkxMjQyMDY

The points made by Goldberg (and subsequent quotes by Peggy Noonan) are clear. Bush destroyed the republican party. He dismantled it, set people within it to feed on eachother...it's an ugly aftermath of 8 years of WRONG republican party policy. What is also stated in the article is a point made by Rush Limbaugh that I heartily agree with....in that a McCain presidency would likely destroy this party further.


This is the point where I drive down a different path with democrats. While I agree with them that Obama might be a better president than McCain, it's only to the two points that I feel McCain would be a disastrous president on most levels and that the republican party needs new leadership in what I call a time of crisis for itself (which wont happen under the rnc's proposed leadership). I'm sure resident liberals here and elsewhere would rather see the republican party eat itself to death....and I obviously have a vested interest in seeing the party recover.

[strangegrey]

Couldnt agree withe Skylorde, Conversationpc, and Strangegrey more.
Got an absentee ballot the oher day. MN sends em by email. I printed one copy out filling in Bob Barr and the Libertarians in and the other with McCains name in. Couldnt for the life of me decide which one to throw away and which one to send in

McCain wins-you get the same creep to big govt an no one stands up to it.
Obama wins -you get there in fast foward mode , and who knows what other damage gets done to the country.

In my mind the "who knows what other damage gets done to the country element" has to be the decider.

My brother said it best. Do you want a 22-caliber round to the base of the skull or a 45 in the liver....?

One will kill you in 20 minutes the other in .20 seconds.

[Tito]

Anybody else (republicans specifically) think it would've been better for the republican party if Kerry would've won in 2004. I think so. He and probably the democratic majority in congress would be so dead in the water right now.

[conversationpc]

The points made by Goldberg (and subsequent quotes by Peggy Noonan) are clear. Bush destroyed the republican party. He dismantled it, set people within it to feed on eachother...it's an ugly aftermath of 8 years of WRONG republican party policy. What is also stated in the article is a point made by Rush Limbaugh that I heartily agree with....in that a McCain presidency would likely destroy this party further.

I cannot agree more with you on this.

[strangegrey]

"Theres going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st,
22nd of January which we don't even know about right now!"

-Colin Powell 10/19/2008

Ummm, what in the fuck is he talking about and why are we hearing armageddon like doom and gloom from the left? Are Colon's comments beyond simple speculation, hinting at the fact he knows something the rest of us don't?

Many foreign policy experts that I've heard have said that there's a high probability that Israel will do something about Iran perhaps BEFORE the new President is inaugurated. If that happens, the entire Middle East could blow up, perhaps even literally. If that happens, God help us, because it will effect almost everything worldwide.

Well, that scenario in of itself is a terrifying scenario...and sadly, will drag us into the thick of it, right behind Isreal. If such an attitude wouldn't have unintended consequences, I would be a huge proponent of giving the arab world the isolation they so desperately desire.


However, having said all of that, I find it hard to believe that they are refering to Isreal's intentions with such certainty. Especially if there's enough people out there putting 2 and 2 together. That's dreadfully irresponsible.

[strangegrey]

Anybody else (republicans specifically) think it would've been better for the republican party if Kerry would've won in 2004. I think so. He and probably the democratic majority in congress would be so dead in the water right now.

The powers behind Bush wouldn't have let that happen....Bush may have failed the american public, but he was flawless in advancing his string-pullers' agendas.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Anybody else (republicans specifically) think it would've been better for the republican party if Kerry would've won in 2004. I think so. He and probably the democratic majority in congress would be so dead in the water right now.

dunno, probably, although I think foreign policy mistakes would have been made, and how costly might have they been?

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with it either...there are some democrats of a rank/file variety that are very much old school carter-esque democrats, that are as fiscally irresponsible as a tech-hungry high school student with daddy's gold card.

Yeh, but at the same time, Carter was in many ways the proto-Reagan/Blue Dog Democrat - openly talking about his religion, making efforts to deregulate trucking & airlines.

This artucle reflects my current views on the state of the republican party to a huge T. While I realize most liberal/democrats that contribute to this forum either don't like Jonah Goldberg or if they don't know him, likely don't read NRO. However, I'll submit that they'll find some worth in reading the article as well.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OWVhOTY3MGYwM2U3YzYwMjg5YTgxNDI0ODkxMjQyMDY

The points made by Goldberg (and subsequent quotes by Peggy Noonan) are clear. Bush destroyed the republican party. He dismantled it, set people within it to feed on eachother...it's an ugly aftermath of 8 years of WRONG republican party policy. What is also stated in the article is a point made by Rush Limbaugh that I heartily agree with....in that a McCain presidency would likely destroy this party further.

I don't think McCain the candidate is fundamentally flawed.
In fact, his few moderate stances prolly gave the GOP their best shot at victory.
Unfortunately, despite his fiery debate ripostes to the contrary, McCain's running exactly like Bush.

[whirlwind]

"Theres going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st,
22nd of January which we don't even know about right now!"

-Colin Powell 10/19/2008

Ummm, what in the fuck is he talking about and why are we hearing armageddon like doom and gloom from the left? Are Colon's comments beyond simple speculation, hinting at the fact he knows something the rest of us don't?

Many foreign policy experts that I've heard have said that there's a high probability that Israel will do something about Iran perhaps BEFORE the new President is inaugurated. If that happens, the entire Middle East could blow up, perhaps even literally. If that happens, God help us, because it will effect almost everything worldwide.

Well, that scenario in of itself is a terrifying scenario...and sadly, will drag us into the thick of it, right behind Isreal. If such an attitude wouldn't have unintended consequences, I would be a huge proponent of giving the arab world the isolation they so desperately desire.


However, having said all of that, I find it hard to believe that they are refering to Isreal's intentions with such certainty. Especially if there's enough people out there putting 2 and 2 together. That's dreadfully irresponsible.

The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth


Psalms 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
Psalms 25:12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13 His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.

Psalms 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psalms 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psalms 37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.









I wish that I knew who are considered the meek. I'll join that party.

[Skylorde]

Well, that scenario in of itself is a terrifying scenario...and sadly, will drag us into the thick of it, right behind Isreal. If such an attitude wouldn't have unintended consequences, I would be a huge proponent of giving the arab world the isolation they so desperately desire.

However, having said all of that, I find it hard to believe that they are refering to Isreal's intentions with such certainty. Especially if there's enough people out there putting 2 and 2 together. That's dreadfully irresponsible.

Frank, seriously. It's not a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN Israel attacks Iran. It would be suicidal for Israel to sit back and wait to "pushed into the sea". Israel was ready to take out Iran's uranium enrichment facilities this past year, Bush shut them down. Our infleunce over Israel is steadily decreasing. At some point, the urgency to stop Iran will be stronger than caring what America thinks about a military operation against Iran. I'm absolutely convinced Israel is going to pull the trigger.

If you were Israel, what would you do?

[Rhiannon]

[Saint John]

If you were Israel, what would you do?

What normal people do when the "neighborhood" goes to shit....move.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth


Psalms 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
Psalms 25:12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13 His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.

Psalms 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psalms 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psalms 37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.









I wish that I knew who are considered the meek. I'll join that party.

you meen this guy??? nah !

http://kendrickmeek.house.gov/

[Skylorde]

Just last week the Foreign Policy teams of both candidates were called in by the FBI to be vetted. First time that's ever happen that I recall.
What were they possibly told is the question?

Interesting, I missed that but dug it up here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ttack.html

There have been particularly intensive efforts to make sure Mr Obama has his national security team in place, not just because he is widely expected to win the election on November 4, but because intelligence analysts believe America's enemies are more likely to try to take advantage of Mr Obama's international inexperience than they would of Mr McCain.

[Don]

Well, that scenario in of itself is a terrifying scenario...and sadly, will drag us into the thick of it, right behind Isreal. If such an attitude wouldn't have unintended consequences, I would be a huge proponent of giving the arab world the isolation they so desperately desire.

However, having said all of that, I find it hard to believe that they are refering to Isreal's intentions with such certainty. Especially if there's enough people out there putting 2 and 2 together. That's dreadfully irresponsible.

Frank, seriously. It's not a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN Israel attacks Iran. It would be suicidal for Israel to sit back and wait to "pushed into the sea". Israel was ready to take out Iran's uranium enrichment facilities this past year, Bush shut them down. Our influence over Israel is steadily decreasing. At some point, the urgency to stop Iran will be stronger than caring what America thinks about a military operation against Iran. I'm absolutely convinced Israel is going to pull the trigger.

If you were Israel, what would you do?

If Israel brings on it's own end, we need to let it play through and totally stand away from them. What is Israel anyway? A colony of white Europeans who were dumped into a land that of their choosing, and basically throwing out the power sharing mandate they were supposed to have with the local Palestine population and becoming colonizers and occupiers by using terrorist tactics (under the guidance of a very young Sharon) against uneducated tribesmen and peasants . Being Euro whites and also benefiting from a gluttony of guilt from the rest of civilized Europe over the actions of World War two, the Jews were able to create their own little Holy empire in the middle of Islam. Looking at past colonizers who set up shop in the third world, the only survivor still viable is South Africa and even they have had to change their mindset radically. We can no longer jeopardize our own security worrying about what becomes of the Jewish State. They are strong enough to take care of themselves. Let the chips fall where they may.

[strangegrey]

If Israel brings on it's own end, we need to let it play through and totally stand away from them. What is Israel anyway? A colony of white Europeans who were dumped into a land that of their choosing, and basically throwing out the power sharing mandate they were supposed to have with the local Palestine population and becoming colonizers and occupiers by using terrorist tactics (under the guidance of a very young Sharon) against uneducated tribesmen and peasants . Being Euro whites and also benefiting from a gluttony of guilt from the rest of civilized Europe over the actions of World War two, the Jews were able to create their own little Holy empire in the middle of Islam. Looking at past colonizers who set up shop in the third world, the only survivor still viable is South Africa and even they have had to change their mindset radically. We can no longer jeopardize our own security worrying about what becomes of the Jewish State. They are strong enough to take care of themselves. Let the chips fall where they may.

I dont think it matters one pube hair whether or not we support israel or not....at this point, I think the US will be implicated regardless...