The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[fredinator]

I've thought a lot about it too, Jana; he has so many problems he's inherited I bet they go to work tomorrow. You're right about Hillary staying in the senate but I wonder if she would be able to turn down, let's say, Sec'y of State or Supreme Court Justice. Dang, this is so awesome.

[annpea]

What happens after President Obama enacts his tax on businesses taht don't have the money to provide health insurance? They'll go straight to the public dole. There will be O incentive to provide the best workers with benefits.

Go away and bow out gracefully! You can get back to your bitching and whining tomorrow! The fact that you actually believe what any politician claims he is going to do tells me that you're a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic!


John from Boston

I don't ordinarily believe anything that anybody tells me, but when someone is threatening socialism I kind of take notice.

Do, you really think about what you say; do you really think for a moment that socialism could ever get it's foot in this country's door. This is a capitalist country with a few token social programs, STOP!! scaring yourself. I turned 50 years old today and I have realized this since I was ten years old. Socialism would get it's ass kicked royally in this country.

[fredinator]

For those of you who might be afraid of an Obama administration, this article is very interesting and comforting since he might be planning on bringing in Republicans, etc., into his administration:


November 3, 2008 11:04 PM

Even before voting began, Washington was abuzz over what a Democratic White House might resemble.

In recent days an outline of an Obama administration has begun to emerge - both in the rumor mill and in press reports. The campaign itself has specifically and repeatedly denied any efforts as such. But sources confirm that advisers to the Senator are already plotting out the staffing of key cabinet positions. And the picture presented is one of experience, talent and bipartisanship.

Chief of Staff

The key figure here is Rahm Emanuel, who is already rumored to be the front man for the job. The Associated Press has reported that the Obama transition team is making overtures to the Illinois congressman, reports which both sides have played down. People in the know, meanwhile, are saying the likelihood is Rahm will be offered the post and will likely say yes - he has experience in the White House, connections and respect on Capitol Hill, and the combative, competitive demeanor that might be an asset for the post.

If for some unforeseen reason Emanuel doesn't work out (sources say he's that much of a lock), the other names being bantered around are John Podesta, the current topper of the Center for American Progress and former chief of staff for Bill Clinton, and Tom Daschle, who has served as a key Obama adviser throughout the campaign and is formerly the Senate Majority Leader.

Attorney General

Janet Napolitano seems in line for this key-ranking position, which became a controversial post under the stewardship of Alberto Gonzales. The current Governor of Arizona is close with Obama, having endorsed his candidacy early on. And sources say that she wouldn't mind the move to D.C. What may end up deciding the appointment, however, is that Eric Holder - who served briefly as AG under Bill Clinton and headed Obama's vice presidential search committee - doesn't want to go through the rigors of a confirmation process and could take himself out of the running.

Secretary of State
Story continues below


This could be the big surprise. Sen. Dick Lugar, a Republican from Indiana may be, according to high-ranking Democrats, Obama's man for the job. The two have worked closely on several issues, none more so than securing loose nukes in former Soviet nations. But Democrats may not warm to the idea of an opposition party member getting an important foreign policy post (a complex to which liberals in particular are tired of being subjected). In light of that, Obama could consider -- and is rumored to be thinking about -- Sen. John Kerry, former U.N. Ambassador Dick Holbrooke, current foreign policy adviser Susan Rice and Greg Craig, another top Obama foreign policy adviser. Among cabinet positions, this seems to be one of the most wide open.

Treasury Secretary

For, perhaps, this most important position, Obama has a slew of options. The individual that sources say is rising closest to the top is former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker, who has been a key endorser of the Obama candidacy in these tough economic times. At the same time, Obama could turn to Warren Buffet, though there is little indication that the Oracle of Omaha wants the job. Or he could look outside the box and tap Michael Bloomberg, though the New York City mayor is seeking a third term in office.

Defense Secretary

The consensus is emerging that, at least for the time being, Obama will keep current header Robert Gates in the cabinet. The job extension would provide the Illinois Democrat the cover he needs to reverse course in Iraq without risking charges of overt partisanship on the issue. Here too, however, there are a host of different names from which Obama can choose his own appointee. These include Republicans such as Sens. Chuck Hagel and Lugar, as well as Democrats like Sen. Jack Reed - a strong congressional voice on foreign policy - Holbrooke and Richard Danzig, former Secretary of the Navy and another key Obama endorser/adviser.

All of this, of course, is speculation, premised entirely on an Obama win. And the list above excludes a bevy of names that have been rumored to be in the running for respective positions. But, from conversations with Washington insiders and in-the-know Democrats, it seems clear that the process of dwindling down the long lists of potential cabinet members has already begun. And the names emerging represent the type of politics that Obama has preached: competent, non-rigid, and above partisanship.


Other Top Names

Secretary Of Agriculture
Tom Vilsack

Secretary Of Energy
Dan Reicher
Ed Rendell
Jason Grument
Steve Westly

Arnold Schwarzenegger
Pete Domenici
James Woolsey

Secretary Of Education
Joel Klein
Caroline Kennedy

White House Counsel
Mark Alexander
Robert Bauer

Secretary Of Defense
Colin Powell

Attorney General
Deval Patrick

Treasury Secretary
Tim Geithner
Larry Summers

EPA Head
Robert Sussman

[bluejeangirl76]

Job creation.. Damn those republicans. You know I'm not even middle class, and as much as I bitch and complain I've seen worse. I'm just kind of grateful.

Somehow, America has LOST jobs under Bush's watch - the first time it's ever happened, in history.

America LOST period under the dictatorship of the Bush/Cheney regime.

Hopefully we can begin digging our way out now. I'll bet that the stock market goes wild tomorrow in celebration.

Its certainly going to be interesting.

[Jana]

Thanks for the post, Fredinator. Interesting read. Tonight I heard the pundits discusssing that he plans to have an inclusive administration. I think people might be really surprised by Obama. He does not want a presidency that is divisive.

[LaDoDa]

I'm a long-time lurker. Rarely consider anything worth posting.

O B A M A!!!!!!

The gravity of what we as Americans have just done is huge beyond belief.

Hope has trumped Fear.

I implore the conservatives on this board to give Obama a chance. Please give him the benefit of the doubt. I guarantee you he won't be announcing Ayers or Wright as members of his cabinet and won't be declaring his Muslim faith.

I'm so proud of our country I could cry. We have a chance to re-take our position as a beacon of hope for the world. Many of you are so quick to dismiss the impact of our decision on the rest of the globe, but I can guarantee the majority of the rest of the world is with us on this one. Please be as patriotic as I was when I accepted a first (and then second) Bush administration. Give Obama a chance!

God Bless America. God Bless the World.


Lula: Congratulations!!! I share your feelings. Please let your other half know I miss him.

[LaDoDa]

I'm a long-time lurker. Rarely consider anything worth posting.

O B A M A!!!!!!

The gravity of what we as Americans have just done is huge beyond belief.

Hope has trumped Fear.

I implore the conservatives on this board to give Obama a chance. Please give him the benefit of the doubt. I guarantee you he won't be announcing Ayers or Wright as members of his cabinet and won't be declaring his Muslim faith.

I'm so proud of our country I could cry. We have a chance to re-take our position as a beacon of hope for the world. Many of you are so quick to dismiss the impact of our decision on the rest of the globe, but I can guarantee the majority of the rest of the world is with us on this one. Please be as patriotic as I was when I accepted a first (and then second) Bush administration. Give Obama a chance!

God Bless America. God Bless the World.


Lula: Congratulations!!! I share your feelings. Please let your other half know I miss him.

[Loneman1]

Thank you America.

[annpea]

[

quote="fredinator"]For those of you who might be afraid of an Obama administration, this article is very interesting and comforting since he might be planning on bringing in Republicans, etc., into his administration:


November 3, 2008 11:04 PM

Even before voting began, Washington was abuzz over what a Democratic White House might resemble.

In recent days an outline of an Obama administration has begun to emerge - both in the rumor mill and in press reports. The campaign itself has specifically and repeatedly denied any efforts as such. But sources confirm that advisers to the Senator are already plotting out the staffing of key cabinet positions. And the picture presented is one of experience, talent and bipartisanship.

Chief of Staff

The key figure here is Rahm Emanuel, who is already rumored to be the front man for the job. The Associated Press has reported that the Obama transition team is making overtures to the Illinois congressman, reports which both sides have played down. People in the know, meanwhile, are saying the likelihood is Rahm will be offered the post and will likely say yes - he has experience in the White House, connections and respect on Capitol Hill, and the combative, competitive demeanor that might be an asset for the post.

If for some unforeseen reason Emanuel doesn't work out (sources say he's that much of a lock), the other names being bantered around are John Podesta, the current topper of the Center for American Progress and former chief of staff for Bill Clinton, and Tom Daschle, who has served as a key Obama adviser throughout the campaign and is formerly the Senate Majority Leader.

Attorney General

Janet Napolitano seems in line for this key-ranking position, which became a controversial post under the stewardship of Alberto Gonzales. The current Governor of Arizona is close with Obama, having endorsed his candidacy early on. And sources say that she wouldn't mind the move to D.C. What may end up deciding the appointment, however, is that Eric Holder - who served briefly as AG under Bill Clinton and headed Obama's vice presidential search committee - doesn't want to go through the rigors of a confirmation process and could take himself out of the running.

Secretary of State
Story continues below


This could be the big surprise. Sen. Dick Lugar, a Republican from Indiana may be, according to high-ranking Democrats, Obama's man for the job. The two have worked closely on several issues, none more so than securing loose nukes in former Soviet nations. But Democrats may not warm to the idea of an opposition party member getting an important foreign policy post (a complex to which liberals in particular are tired of being subjected). In light of that, Obama could consider -- and is rumored to be thinking about -- Sen. John Kerry, former U.N. Ambassador Dick Holbrooke, current foreign policy adviser Susan Rice and Greg Craig, another top Obama foreign policy adviser. Among cabinet positions, this seems to be one of the most wide open.

Treasury Secretary

For, perhaps, this most important position, Obama has a slew of options. The individual that sources say is rising closest to the top is former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker, who has been a key endorser of the Obama candidacy in these tough economic times. At the same time, Obama could turn to Warren Buffet, though there is little indication that the Oracle of Omaha wants the job. Or he could look outside the box and tap Michael Bloomberg, though the New York City mayor is seeking a third term in office.

Defense Secretary

The consensus is emerging that, at least for the time being, Obama will keep current header Robert Gates in the cabinet. The job extension would provide the Illinois Democrat the cover he needs to reverse course in Iraq without risking charges of overt partisanship on the issue. Here too, however, there are a host of different names from which Obama can choose his own appointee. These include Republicans such as Sens. Chuck Hagel and Lugar, as well as Democrats like Sen. Jack Reed - a strong congressional voice on foreign policy - Holbrooke and Richard Danzig, former Secretary of the Navy and another key Obama endorser/adviser.

All of this, of course, is speculation, premised entirely on an Obama win. And the list above excludes a bevy of names that have been rumored to be in the running for respective positions. But, from conversations with Washington insiders and in-the-know Democrats, it seems clear that the process of dwindling down the long lists of potential cabinet members has already begun. And the names emerging represent the type of politics that Obama has preached: competent, non-rigid, and above partisanship.


Other Top Names

Secretary Of Agriculture
Tom Vilsack

Secretary Of Energy
Dan Reicher
Ed Rendell
Jason Grument
Steve Westly

Arnold Schwarzenegger
Pete Domenici
James Woolsey

Secretary Of Education
Joel Klein
Caroline Kennedy

White House Counsel
Mark Alexander
Robert Bauer

Secretary Of Defense
Colin Powell

Attorney General
Deval Patrick

Treasury Secretary
Tim Geithner
Larry Summers

EPA Head
Robert Sussman

[/quote] Looks good.

[scarygirl]

Someone explain to me how all these corporate tax increases that are about to take place are going to keep jobs in America?

[Skylorde]

Dude, you do know that Minnesota is always ranked as one of the most nicest, livable states in the country, right?

Also, if Franken is human feces, what does it say about Norm Coleman who may go down in defeat to...tada..human feces?

The stupid fucks are the ones getting steam rolled tonight. Fuck being nice anymore. With the class comments seen here lately, I want VA, NC, CO, IN and MT, to go with CA, OR, WA and HI.= 336 votes. Fuck, somehow someway, I want MO too.

Minnesota is stunningly beautiful, I've been there.

Oh, Franken lost. Faith restored Seriously, Obama has more class in his thumb than Franken could ever dream of having. I don't agree with Obama's politics but I do respect the guy for a number of reasons. Franken on the other hand...isn't worth the toilet paper I used this morning.

[Skylorde]

Hey Frank, it's on, just as we figured.

Israel launches first airstrike on Gaza since June

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

Hamas fires over 35 rockets towards Israel

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNew ... B520081105

[strangegrey]

Hey Frank, it's on, just as we figured.

Israel launches first airstrike on Gaza since June

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

Hamas fires over 35 rockets towards Israel

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNew ... B520081105

Yep.....I suspect there might be a direct action against Iran *very* soon. I get the distinct impression Obama might leave Israel with their dicks in the wind (and for that, I will aplaud him)....and if Israel gets that sense, they will start amping up big time.

It seems as if this is exactly what's happening. I suspect Israel is going to try to take out specific Hamas targets before a full scale attack against Iran....so that they don't get flanked by Hamas.


It was never a matter of if, but a matter of when...

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Hey Frank, it's on, just as we figured.

Israel launches first airstrike on Gaza since June

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

Hamas fires over 35 rockets towards Israel

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNew ... B520081105

Yep.....I suspect there might be a direct action against Iran *very* soon. I get the distinct impression Obama might leave Israel with their dicks in the wind (and for that, I will aplaud him)....and if Israel gets that sense, they will start amping up big time.

It seems as if this is exactly what's happening. I suspect Israel is going to try to take out specific Hamas targets before a full scale attack against Iran....so that they don't get flanked by Hamas.


It was never a matter of if, but a matter of when...

want to follow what thinking is going on in Israel read www.debka.com THey seem to find out things others dont , before they happen.

Unfortunately I think your analsis is spot on.

[strangegrey]

Someone explain to me how all these corporate tax increases that are about to take place are going to keep jobs in America?

It depends entirely on whether or not you believe that the stated tax is the actual percentage they pay. Corporations hire tax accountants at a higher salary rate than CPA firms and the IRS combined. They are usually the first line of offense in exploiting tax loopholes....and if you go back and read a few past posts of mine, you'll learn that such loopholes are a very necessary part of the system.....given the methodology of accounting we use in this coutry.


So while you might try to crank up the fear mongering again this morning, you should realize that even if a corporations nominal/stated tax rates...their *effective* tax rates don't get affected in equal proportions.....

depending on what credits and deductions offered under the obama plan, you might very well see US corporations paying very similar *effective* rates.


What you will see happen in the US, is that alot of these tax credits and deductions that will be offered under the Obama plan will only be available to corporations that don't ship jobs to China, India and Bangledesh....and frankly, the current global economy is such that without such protective measures, I truly believe the productive capacity of this country would sooner get eviscerated before any net effect from tax policy.


So while you can sit there and go "ooooohh, barack's the boogie man. beware...he's going to tax us to the poorhouse and us corporations out of this country".....the fact remains that us corporations are already engaging in agressive tax practice that will affect them less than you think. What will affect them, and I hope it works, is tax-based incentives to keep jobs here.

The biggest shameful act George Bush conducted as president, save for his clusterfucking iraq....was his selling out this country to foreign interests for either debt financing or jobs. He basically turned his back on americans, watched them enter a period of joblessness....and did so with a pat on the back from his globalist handlers.

Buying into the concept that Barack's big bad plans will destroy america is just more republican fear mongering. Plan as jane. Instead, you should spend some time and read his proposals a little more carefully...and realize that some of his ideas have merit...and might just bring jobs back onto our borders...

[strangegrey]

want to follow what thinking is going on in Israel read www.debka.com THey seem to find out things others dont , before they happen.

Unfortunately I think your analsis is spot on.

Matt, thanks for the link. I haven't yet seen that site/...reading now!

[Enigma869]

Do you all think Hillary might be Sec'y of State?

I've heard John Kerry's name mentioned several times as Secretary of State, but who knows. I suspect that Obama already has most of the names in place.


John from Boston

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Do you all think Hillary might be Sec'y of State?

I've heard John Kerry's name mentioned several times as Secretary of State, but who knows. I suspect that Obama already has most of the names in place.


John from Boston

Bill Richardson. The Nachos and buffalo wings at Bill Clinton's Superbowl party this year tasted like shit and there wasnt enough beer on hand, so he went to Obama and sold his support for Hilary- trading it for a promise to be secretary of state .

Ill bet you a big tall can of Ole Milwaukee beer on it!!

[Ehwmatt]

Howard Dean for this.

YYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoUh9TeWbNg

[Enigma869]

Bill Richardson. The Nachos and buffalo wings at Bill Clinton's Superbowl party this year tasted like shit and there wasnt enough beer on hand, so he went to Obama and sold his support for Hilary- trading it for a promise to be secretary of state .

Ill bet you a big tall can of Ole Milwaukee beer on it!!

I sincerely hope that Obama selects a bipartisan cabinet. Now that Congress has an overwhelming majority of Democrats, I'm not liking this whole one party rule. I feel like Obama will make the right decision and select people from the other side of the aisle for prominent positions within his administration. On another note, I found Obama's speech last night to be one of the best political speeches that I've ever listened to. I had forgotten what a president should sound like, given the last 8 years of fumbling through sentences!


John from Boston

[AlteredDNA]

Bill Richardson. The Nachos and buffalo wings at Bill Clinton's Superbowl party this year tasted like shit and there wasnt enough beer on hand, so he went to Obama and sold his support for Hilary- trading it for a promise to be secretary of state .

Ill bet you a big tall can of Ole Milwaukee beer on it!!

I sincerely hope that Obama selects a bipartisan cabinet. Now that Congress has an overwhelming majority of Democrats, I'm not liking this whole one party rule. I feel like Obama will make the right decision and select people from the other side of the aisle for prominent positions within his administration. On another note, I found Obama's speech last night to be one of the best political speeches that I've ever listened to. I had forgotten what a president should sound like, given the last 8 years of fumbling through sentences!


John from Boston

Well, Rahm Emanuel for Chief of Staff is definitely NOT a good step in that direction. I wouldn't expect Obama to select a Republican, but Emanuel is as partisan and devisive as they come.

[bluejeangirl76]

I had forgotten what a president should sound like, given the last 8 years of fumbling through sentences!

Boy isn't that the truth.

Policies and governing aside, that guy has been an embarrassment to have as a leader.

[Ehwmatt]

Bill Richardson. The Nachos and buffalo wings at Bill Clinton's Superbowl party this year tasted like shit and there wasnt enough beer on hand, so he went to Obama and sold his support for Hilary- trading it for a promise to be secretary of state .

Ill bet you a big tall can of Ole Milwaukee beer on it!!

I sincerely hope that Obama selects a bipartisan cabinet. Now that Congress has an overwhelming majority of Democrats, I'm not liking this whole one party rule. I feel like Obama will make the right decision and select people from the other side of the aisle for prominent positions within his administration. On another note, I found Obama's speech last night to be one of the best political speeches that I've ever listened to. I had forgotten what a president should sound like, given the last 8 years of fumbling through sentences!


John from Boston

Obama seems like a man with good intentions. I begrudgingly say this... I don't think the past associations with the Wrights and Ayers of the world can be brushed off as casually as they have been. But, I must admit, leaving that aside, I really hope he wants to try and better the country as much as he says he wants to. I also hope he does move to the center on many of his policies. And yes, it will be nice that we have a president who can really get up there and inspire people with his words and delivery... maybe that is half the battle in getting people to get off their asses and better THEMSELVES.

McCain is a good man too and he handled defeat with the class I knew he would. Sad to see him get so close to the White House in the twilight of his career. Classic case of right place at the wrong time. Obama was just too much of a juggernaut. Add in the shadow of the Bush admin and you've got a battle up the fuckin Himalayas.

As for a bipartisan cabinet, it would be nice, but who knows. I'd be surprised if there's much of that in the Obama administration. It's not a prerequisite for a successful admin, but it would go a long way in his proving his "unifying" ability early.

[Enigma869]

Someone explain to me how all these corporate tax increases that are about to take place are going to keep jobs in America?

You really need to pull your head out of your ass! Have you called an 800 customer service number in the past 5 years??? I don't care if it's Bank Of America, Linksys, Mastercard, Visa, or any other company you want to name...most of those jobs left America a very long time ago, on W's watch! Let the guy get sworn in and see what he can do. If he fucks up, you're free to criticize him just like everyone else. Beating the guy up over what he might do is simply idiotic! Rule number one with EVERY politician is to not believe one single word they ever say, because they all lie their ass off. Politics has never been an honest man's game. You're only allowed to run for office if lying is one of your talents!


John from Boston

[bluejeangirl76]

Someone explain to me how all these corporate tax increases that are about to take place are going to keep jobs in America?

You really need to pull your head out of your ass!

Nah, let her leave it in awhile... we still have almost 3 months of Bushy, so the air out here still sucks anyway. And based on what he's up to lately, its only gonna suck more... he's dashing for the finish line in a free for all, I fear.

[strangegrey]

Thank you Andrew for the chance to debate this shit here without heavy handed moderation. It was good for all of us I think. I learned a few things and would like to think others did as well. All in all it's been a great experience for this Melodicrock loving, political/news junkie.

Well said...and I second that.

Thanks Andrew for letting us slug it out and call each other nasty things all in the name of democracy. Once the dust has settled, we can all go back to fighting over Journey instead!

[Rhiannon]

Thanks Andrew for letting us slug it out and call each other nasty things all in the name of democracy.

Ahhhhhhhmerica.

[Enigma869]

Once the dust has settled, we can all go back to fighting over Journey instead!

Who is Journey


John from Boston

[RossValoryRocks]

Once the dust has settled, we can all go back to fighting over Journey instead!

Who is Journey


John from Boston

Steve Perry's band I think...

[conversationpc]

Thank you Andrew for the chance to debate this shit here without heavy handed moderation. It was good for all of us I think. I learned a few things and would like to think others did as well. All in all it's been a great experience for this Melodicrock loving, political/news junkie.

Well said...and I second that.

Thanks Andrew for letting us slug it out and call each other nasty things all in the name of democracy. Once the dust has settled, we can all go back to fighting over Journey instead!

Here! Here! Now let's all drink beer and get blasted!