President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Boomchild]

All the things you mention in your paragraph

• reducing nuclear arms
• border security
• illegal (or legal) immigration
• Patriot Act
• ACA (obamacare)
• NDAA
• gun control

.... have to be approved by Congress... none can be done by Obama unilaterally.. he can threaten, has threatened, but ultimately it always falls to Congress.

gun control was killed by Congress
the Patriot Act was renewed by Congress
Obamacare was passed by Congress
the NDAA was approved by Congress



I think Obama is nothing more than a puppet.. who's just really bad at being a puppet.. and any blame directed at him (or Bush, or any POTUS) that does not equally damn Congress, is akin to blaming the "sky for being blue"...

I know Congress has to pass these things. I know he is not the only problem. But he is a big part of it by coming up with these ideas and convincing lawmakers and voters that this is what we should do. I never said that Congress wasn't a part of our issues. I think I have made that clear in prior posts in this thread. If he comes up with the ideas and gets the rest of them to go along with it, he carries as much blame as the others.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Interesting stuff coming out in the news right now in regards to hundreds of US military guns, special vehicles, night vision goggles, etc. stolen in Libya. Interesting because BOzo and his Klan never mentioned anything about that little piece of information. How many other things is BOzo and Klan not mentioning?

[slucero]

All the things you mention in your paragraph

• reducing nuclear arms
• border security
• illegal (or legal) immigration
• Patriot Act
• ACA (obamacare)
• NDAA
• gun control

.... have to be approved by Congress... none can be done by Obama unilaterally.. he can threaten, has threatened, but ultimately it always falls to Congress.

gun control was killed by Congress
the Patriot Act was renewed by Congress
Obamacare was passed by Congress
the NDAA was approved by Congress



I think Obama is nothing more than a puppet.. who's just really bad at being a puppet.. and any blame directed at him (or Bush, or any POTUS) that does not equally damn Congress, is akin to blaming the "sky for being blue"...

I know Congress has to pass these things. I know he is not the only problem. But he is a big part of it by coming up with these ideas and convincing lawmakers and voters that this is what we should do. I never said that Congress wasn't a part of our issues. I think I have made that clear in prior posts in this thread. If he comes up with the ideas and gets the rest of them to go along with it, he carries as much blame as the others.

Obama doesn't come up with these ideas... he has an army of "advisers" that do.. and many of these things have been on both party's agendas for decades..

Universal healthcare - has been a longstanding wish of BOTH parties.... in fact the Republicans also proposed it about a decade or so ago..

Immigration reform - is a "political football" that both parties have used when they need to unify their base... we've had 7 immigration reform bills sine the 1960's... SEVEN... it's why Bush didn't secure the borders, and why Obama hasn't.. because as long as immigration can be an issue, both parties know they have another tool, with which they can fool the populace, yet again..

The Patriot Act - was simply a blatant grab at liberty by the government, at a time when the populace would accept it. Why do you think it was called "The Patriot Act"? If it had been called the "We're Taking Some Of Your Freedom Act" people would have revolted.


Changing the people in Washington isn't gonna solve a thing until there is a change in the morality in the nation.. a change that results in a citizens who become Congress-people who create and PASS legislation that repeals existing laws that have subverted or abrogated the Constitutional. That is gonna be a huge to impossible problem to solve, because:

• the federal government believes it has a right to exist, and
• has re-engineered Washington to to personally benefit Congress-people who go there, and
• has successfully decoupled citizens from their Constitution, creating an apathetic, disinterested populace

The federal government's own hubris is what is going to be the nations downfall.. and there is very little anyone can do to stop it. There is lots of historical precedent for this, many refer to the Fall of Rome as an example... and it is somewhat accurate.

The common thread is that when government hubris exceeds a nations ability to support it, the nation falls into decline.

[conversationpc]

The common thread is that when government hubris exceeds a nations ability to support it, the nation falls into decline.

Unfortunately, that's right where we are. Very few believe that America can experience really hard times and so the excessive spending goes on and on and on. It's ironic that we will experience very hard times simply because we never believed that we could.

[slucero]

The common thread is that when government hubris exceeds a nations ability to support it, the nation falls into decline.

Unfortunately, that's right where we are. Very few believe that America can experience really hard times and so the excessive spending goes on and on and on. It's ironic that we will experience very hard times simply because we never believed that we could.

BINGO.

[Boomchild]

Obama doesn't come up with these ideas... he has an army of "advisers" that do.. and many of these things have been on both party's agendas for decades..

Universal healthcare - has been a longstanding wish of BOTH parties.... in fact the Republicans also proposed it about a decade or so ago..

Immigration reform - is a "political football" that both parties have used when they need to unify their base... we've had 7 immigration reform bills sine the 1960's... SEVEN... it's why Bush didn't secure the borders, and why Obama hasn't.. because as long as immigration can be an issue, both parties know they have another tool, with which they can fool the populace, yet again..

The Patriot Act - was simply a blatant grab at liberty by the government, at a time when the populace would accept it. Why do you think it was called "The Patriot Act"? If it had been called the "We're Taking Some Of Your Freedom Act" people would have revolted.


Changing the people in Washington isn't gonna solve a thing until there is a change in the morality in the nation.. a change that results in a citizens who become Congress-people who create and PASS legislation that repeals existing laws that have subverted or abrogated the Constitutional. That is gonna be a huge to impossible problem to solve, because:

• the federal government believes it has a right to exist, and
• has re-engineered Washington to to personally benefit Congress-people who go there, and
• has successfully decoupled citizens from their Constitution, creating an apathetic, disinterested populace

The federal government's own hubris is what is going to be the nations downfall.. and there is very little anyone can do to stop it. There is lots of historical precedent for this, many refer to the Fall of Rome as an example... and it is somewhat accurate.

The common thread is that when government hubris exceeds a nations ability to support it, the nation falls into decline.

I think you don't give enough credit to B.O. as a big part of the problem. You look to him as a puppet and that is fine. I don't look at it the same way. I agree that federal government is not capable of turning itself around. That it's the American people that need to change. If we can't do much of anything to change the nation's downfall, then all these discussions are pointless.

[Boomchild]

The common thread is that when government hubris exceeds a nations ability to support it, the nation falls into decline.

Unfortunately, that's right where we are. Very few believe that America can experience really hard times and so the excessive spending goes on and on and on. It's ironic that we will experience very hard times simply because we never believed that we could.

As the saying goes "All Good Things Come To An End". I believe one of our founding fathers said that "All Republics Fall". I guess this is what we are witnessing right now. So with that I do not see much point of bitching and moaning about it in these threads. It's not going to change a single thing. I'm not wasting my time on it anymore.

[pinkfloyd1973]

The common thread is that when government hubris exceeds a nations ability to support it, the nation falls into decline.

Unfortunately, that's right where we are. Very few believe that America can experience really hard times and so the excessive spending goes on and on and on. It's ironic that we will experience very hard times simply because we never believed that we could.

As the saying goes "All Good Things Come To An End". I believe one of our founding fathers said that "All Republics Fall". I guess this is what we are witnessing right now. So with that I do not see much point of bitching and moaning about it in these threads. It's not going to change a single thing. I'm not wasting my time on it anymore.

"What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we have been fighting to destroy?"

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"
--Padme Amidala, Star Wars, Episode 3

[slucero]

"What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we have been fighting to destroy?"

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"
--Padme Amidala, Star Wars, Episode 3

words matter.. as do their meaning..

The problem with that quote is that the USA has never been a "democracy".. the word is not in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution..

The Founders and Framers were VERY cognizant of making sure that there was no reference to "democracy".. because they knew their history.. all nations that eventually come to believe they were "democracies" devolved into socialism..

They rightly knew and feared that the word "democracy" would eventually become pluralized, and be used to divide the nation.. and subvert the whole idea of individual sovereignty.. which is the founding basis for the Republic.

a correct version of that quote would read:

"What if the Republic we thought we were serving no longer exists, and has become the very evil we have been fighting to destroy?"

[slucero]

One more thing Obama has gone against his word on...

US sending bankrupt Detroit $300 million. Think 'stimulus,' not 'bailout.'

At a closed summit in Detroit, US officials pledged $300 million to help the nation's largest-ever bankrupt city invest in infrastructure, public safety and transit, and begin eradicating blight.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-sending-bankrupt-detroit-300-million-think-stimulus-002209076.html

[steveo777]

One more thing Obama has gone against his word on...

US sending bankrupt Detroit $300 million. Think 'stimulus,' not 'bailout.'

At a closed summit in Detroit, US officials pledged $300 million to help the nation's largest-ever bankrupt city invest in infrastructure, public safety and transit, and begin eradicating blight.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-sending-bankrupt-detroit-300-million-think-stimulus-002209076.html

It will cost at least that much, so I hope this money is being used for demolition. There will be no ROI here. They can't pay back any loans, so yes, it is stimulus.

[tater1977]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=54 ... =2&theater

[The Sushi Hunter]

One more thing Obama has gone against his word on...

US sending bankrupt Detroit $300 million. Think 'stimulus,' not 'bailout.'

At a closed summit in Detroit, US officials pledged $300 million to help the nation's largest-ever bankrupt city invest in infrastructure, public safety and transit, and begin eradicating blight.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-sending-bankrupt-detroit-300-million-think-stimulus-002209076.html

It will cost at least that much, so I hope this money is being used for demolition. There will be no ROI here. They can't pay back any loans, so yes, it is stimulus.

BOzo is handing out money in hopes it gives these people a taste of what it's like to have money so they will be motivated to go out and get work. It won't work though but for the meantime they''re going to partying like it's 1999 in Detroit. Money will run out and they will put the hand out again for some more. Just look at the culture of that city and that's a pretty good indication of what's going on over there. Bayview/Hunter's Point is San Francisco's "Little Detroit".

[Rick]

Wow. All is quiet here in Rightwingville, since you teabaggers assraped the country with this shutdown.

[slucero]

Well maybe you can get Otard to negotiate with Congress.. instead of Syria and Iran....

..it would after all be the "American" thing to do..

[Memorex]

The right says the left, the left says the right. Hypocrites all of them!

The government shut down because of right wing extremists. The government shut down because the democrats don't want to compromise. Is it extreme to want to reverse Citizens United? A law upheld by the Supreme Court. If there were enough votes to overturn Roe V Wade, would it be extreme to fight back to get it reinstated? So silly. It's not extreme if you are doing what you believe is right. Isn't that what we send individuals there for?

That said, the other thing we send them for is to work together to solve big issues. Obamacare was passed in a completely one-sided manner. Democrats did it knowing more than half the country and all their counterparts were against it. Was that extreme (yes). So if the Dems can do that, why should they cry when the other side stands up?

We have no real leaders. Our president has become the most ineffective president in our time. He sure does talk the talk, but I've never seen anyone do so little to solve the big problems in a bi-partisan way. It's all through sneaky back-room stuff.

I don't feel sorry for either side. I wish congress could be dissolved in situations like this like other countries do.

And hey - democrats - if you don't want shut downs, pass a fucking budget.

I feel sorry for all the simple-minded people that hear their side say some stupid rhetoric and they just buy into it hook line and sinker. No one can think for themselves anymore. People should just start wearing sweaters with a big D or big R stitched on, like Laverne.

Obamacare is a terrible law and it's terrible on purpose (single-payer here we come). Why am I pissed? Because I was just notified yesterday that it is likely that our employer will be doing away with our health care plan and that certain people will be reduced to part time. We will also be laying off several people from one of our divisions that has more than 50 employees. Somehow I am supposed to care about who is furloughed today, but all those people could give a shit about me and my family and my co-workers who were minding our own business and paying our own way.

Healthcare needed changing, but it needed to be a hell of a lot more thoughtful than this. Some site has a list of all the known large companies that have cut hours and people to avoid the healthcare costs. I know this country is absolutely overflowing with good jobs right now, but....

[steveo777]

Wow. All is quiet here in Rightwingville, since you teabaggers assraped the country with this shutdown.

That's right - you have been teabagged. Now suck em good!

Now, why don't you passionate lefies go and create a recall petition for your biggest enemy, Harry Reid? He's the one that doesn't want to sit down at the table with both sides of congress and negotiate. Of course, MSNBC, ABC, NBC and CNN won't expose any of that truth to ya all. Neither will your Huff Post. The GOP tried 4 different times to vote positive on a continuing resolution, including delaying Obamacare. Thank your own side for where we are now, thanks to a one sided passing of a fucking socialist program that most people don't want. We don't need the government running healthcare! What are they gonna do next, go into the car business and manufacturing? We can't sustain ourselves when all that is holding up the government is the government. We don't need another several thousand government employees. The unions don't want this fucking train wreck. Congress wants to be exempt. If it's not good enough for them, how can it be good for us.

I'm not into socialism man. We are coming apart, as a nation, when people start calling people who believe in the following, Teabaggers!

Patriotism
Capitalism
Free Enterprise
1st ammendment
2nd ammendment
Christian
Civil liberties
Freedom
Holding elected officials accountable for their supposed "phony scandals"

Seems like good people to me.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Well maybe you can get Otard to negotiate with Congress.. instead of Syria and Iran....

..it would after all be the "American" thing to do..

Actually, the "American" thing to do would be for the GOP to recognize that the Supreme Court (a right wing supreme court, no less), and the final arbiter on all things Constitutional, upheld Obongocare as the law of the land. Deal with it.

[Rick]

Excellent responses.

This is something that will make you realize your station in life.

Verbatim. "Hey, Rick, go check under the storage shed to make sure there are no rattlers. Maya has been digging under there and I don't want her to get hurt." From my lovely wife, Debbie.

[The_Noble_Cause]

We don't need the government running healthcare!

Except for Medicaid, Medicare etc.
Why should private US companies, whose job it is to maximize profits to shareholders, be saddled with providing healthcare?
Makes no sense whatsoever.

Congress wants to be exempt. If it's not good enough for them, how can it be good for us.

And what kind of healthcare does Congress have? Oh right. Taxpayer subsidized plans. As usual, socialism is OK for the rich.

[slucero]

I kid you not... didn't the NRA propose this?

Obama shifts $45 million for armed cops in schools — a la NRA
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ls-la-nra/

By Cheryl K. Chumley
The Washington Times

Monday, September 30, 2013

It’s almost like a page right out of the National Rifle Association playbook: The Obama administration has announced millions of dollars in funding to put armed officers in the nation’s schools.

Specifically, the Department of Justice said $45 million is going to “create 356 new school resource officer positions,” CNN reported. The money is coming from Community Oriented Policing Services grant dollars — and first up on the list of intended recipients is Newtown, Conn., the site of the massive Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. The money to Newtown will fund two new officers in the town’s schools, Breitbart reported.

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said of the grants: “In the wake of past tragedies, it’s clear that we need to be willing to take all possible steps to ensure that our kids are safe when they go to school.”

But the NRA was way ahead on that belief. Just days after the Sandy Hook shooting occurred, Wayne LaPierre, the NRA’s executive vice president and chief executive officer, suggested more armed guards inside the schools. He said that “we protect our banks … airports, office buildings, power plants [and] sports stadiums [with] armed security.” Why not kids in schools?

As Breitbart reported in December — in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre and the Obama administration’s pledge to crack down on guns and Second Amendment rights — the president’s own children attend a school that staffs armed security guards. At Sidwell Friends School in Washington, 11 armed guards patrol the campus grounds. At the time of the report, the school was in process of hiring two more.

The only problem is the math..

45,000,000/356 =$126,404 per resource officer.... wow.. that's a nice paycheck....

According tohttp://www.edreform.com/2012/04/k-12-facts/ TOTAL NUMBER OF K-12 SCHOOLS: there are 132,656
 schools

At 356 guards to be hired, that equates to 1 armed guard for every 372.6 schools.



This is some real fucked up logic..

[slucero]

Well maybe you can get Otard to negotiate with Congress.. instead of Syria and Iran....

..it would after all be the "American" thing to do..

Actually, the "American" thing to do would be for the GOP to recognize that the Supreme Court (a right wing supreme court, no less), and the final arbiter on all things Constitutional, upheld Obongocare as the law of the land. Deal with it.

nah.... that would be too easy.. doing things the wrong way is the American way..

[Memorex]

We don't need the government running healthcare!

Except for Medicaid, Medicare etc.
Why should private US companies, whose job it is to maximize profits to shareholders, be saddled with providing healthcare?
Makes no sense whatsoever.

Congress wants to be exempt. If it's not good enough for them, how can it be good for us.

And what kind of healthcare does Congress have? Oh right. Taxpayer subsidized plans. As usual, socialism is OK for the rich.

Private companies with incentives to maximize profits usually try and do things to, you know, be efficient. And it always rights itself. The torch is passed from one company to the next as better ways of doing things are created.

I do think regulation - in moderation - is good. Just not regulation meant to put private companies out of business in favor of government-run competition. If you think the government is going to run health care better than private companies, well then there is no arguing the point. You mention Medicare, etc. All would be better under private direction.

[The_Noble_Cause]

That said, the other thing we send them for is to work together to solve big issues. Obamacare was passed in a completely one-sided manner. Democrats did it knowing more than half the country and all their counterparts were against it. Was that extreme (yes). So if the Dems can do that, why should they cry when the other side stands up?

Does the other side have any legitimate interest in expanding coverage for citizens? Did the last GOP inhabitant of the White House even so much as tackle the issue? No. Instead, he tried to cut social security benefits and hand the old age pension system directly into the hands of the same Wall Street Masters of the Universe that blew up the economy. You want to talk about "big issues"...Nixon tried to wage war on cancer and provide healthcare to all Americans. Those were weighty "big issues." Since then, the GOP has had no sincere interest in governing or bettering the lives of their constituents - this latest shutdown stunt further proves that. They are a talk radio party that just kicks up dirt, fear, and resentment. As for Obama ramrodding the legislation down the country's throat...need I remind you, that the plan originated in the Conservative movement to begin with? He even abandoned the public option (the sole sliver of socialism in the entire thing) faster than Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, and his homeless Kenyan brother-in-law. It bears little resemblance to the single payer utopian vision of Teddy Roosevelt and every progressive since then. If any of the Cons on here had an ounce of intellectual honesty (which they don't), you would admit that you would fall in line and support this legislation if it were passed by someone with an "R" behind their name, exactly as you did when Medicare Part D was passed in the dead middle of the night, with the Cspan cameras unplugged. You are all frauds.

[Memorex]

Well maybe you can get Otard to negotiate with Congress.. instead of Syria and Iran....

..it would after all be the "American" thing to do..

Actually, the "American" thing to do would be for the GOP to recognize that the Supreme Court (a right wing supreme court, no less), and the final arbiter on all things Constitutional, upheld Obongocare as the law of the land. Deal with it.

The Supreme court is not always right. I bet you could name a dozen 5-4 decisions in the last 20 years that you think are absolutely wrong. And you would blame it on the right-leaning court. And the right does the same for their pet-issues.

If the supreme court ruled simply on the constitutionality of things, blindly, then no president would care about making sure he got to pick the justices. Both sides wants one of the justices from the other side to die while their guy is in office. Because they want their way. So obviously their is a lot of political opinion in these decisions. You can't tell me you have never heard a ruling and thought it was wrong.

When you fill out your tax return next year, and when you go to the Dr. next year, and they ask you these irrelevant, personal, and private questions about your health, just ask yourself if it is really American. Is it really necessary and right? It's not and everyone knows it and half the country doesn't care.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Private companies with incentives to maximize profits usually try and do things to, you know, be efficient. And it always rights itself. The torch is passed from one company to the next as better ways of doing things are created.

Then why do so many companies NOT provide benefits to their workers? Where is this self-improvement of which you speak? You can go into any Walmart break room in America and find posters instructing workers on how to apply for food stamps and welfare. Is this capitalism at work? Pay people pennies on the dollar and then shift their essential services onto the public dime? It is shameful. And businesses do not actually play a role in the delivery of medical services, so your efficiency line is laughably meaningless.

You mention Medicare, etc. All would be better under private direction.

That's funny, because premiums on private plans and administrative costs have all risen much more sharply than Medicare and Medicaid. The GOP is a perverse freak show that needs to be put out of its misery.

[Memorex]

That said, the other thing we send them for is to work together to solve big issues. Obamacare was passed in a completely one-sided manner. Democrats did it knowing more than half the country and all their counterparts were against it. Was that extreme (yes). So if the Dems can do that, why should they cry when the other side stands up?

Does the other side have any legitimate interest in expanding coverage for citizens? Did the last GOP inhabitant of the White House even so much as tackle the issue? No. Instead, he tried to cut social security benefits and hand the old age pension system directly into the hands of the same Wall Street Masters of the Universe that blew up the economy. You want to talk about "big issues"...Nixon tried to wage war on cancer and provide healthcare to all Americans. Those were weighty "big issues." Since then, the GOP has had no sincere interest in governing or bettering the lives of their constituents - this latest shutdown stunt further proves that. They are a talk radio party that just kicks up dirt, fear, and resentment. As for Obama ramrodding the legislation down the country's throat...need I remind you, that the plan originated in the Conservative movement to begin with? He even abandoned the public option (the sole sliver of socialism in the entire thing) faster than Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, and his homeless Kenyan brother-in-law. It bears little resemblance to the single payer utopian vision of Teddy Roosevelt and every progressive since then. If any of the Cons on here had an ounce of intellectual honesty (which they don't), you would admit that you would fall in line and support this legislation if it were passed by someone with an "R" behind their name, exactly as you did when Medicare Part D was passed in the dead middle of the night, with the Cspan cameras unplugged. You are all frauds.

Absolutely. The R's would do what the R's told them to do. At least for the majority of R's. I'll offer the Patriot Act as proof of that.

But - just as I would tell and R that the D's were only doing what they thought was right by ramming obamacare down our throats, I can take issue with you saying the R's haven't done anything. Follow me on this.

R's believe, and deeply, that a person should be responsible for themselves. And so to that end, they truly believe that a person should have the right to plan for their retirement in their own way. So they believe that a person should be able to invest their money in a plan, rather than giving it to the government. So when they get up there and fight for that, they are fighting for what they believe is a better way for folks to deal with retirement. Invest for yourself or be forced to pay the government when you don't want to. Seems logical. They aren't trying to harm Americans. They are trying to empower them. Whether they are technically right or wrong, it's noble that they fight for their beliefs, just as it is for the D's.

It's all so incredibly hypocritical. Everyone knows that they are all accusing each other of the same shit they do.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The Supreme court is not always right. I bet you could name a dozen 5-4 decisions in the last 20 years that you think are absolutely wrong. And you would blame it on the right-leaning court. And the right does the same for their pet-issues.

And so, naturally, I am entitled to hold the government hostage, right? You're insane.

[Memorex]

Private companies with incentives to maximize profits usually try and do things to, you know, be efficient. And it always rights itself. The torch is passed from one company to the next as better ways of doing things are created.

Then why do so many companies NOT provide benefits to their workers? Where is this self-improvement of which you speak? You can go into any Walmart break room in America and find posters instructing workers on how to apply for food stamps and welfare. Is this capitalism at work? Pay people pennies on the dollar and then shift their essential services onto the public dime? It is shameful. And businesses do not actually play a role in the delivery of medical services, so your efficiency line is laughably meaningless.

You mention Medicare, etc. All would be better under private direction.

That's funny, because premiums on private plans and administrative costs have all risen much more sharply than Medicare and Medicaid. The GOP is a perverse freak show that needs to be put out of its misery.

The difference is that those private companies remain profitable and contribute to our economy. Government plans are in severe debt because people are too entitled to allow for adjustment. Too much time on the government breast.

Walmart is a perfect example and I am glad you bring it up. Let's say that the government was in the same business as Walmart. Not to employ people, but to sell products to the consumer at a reasonable price in stores all over the country. Walmart handles this task so phenomenally well, they have put many others out of business and continue to grow. By the way, when Kmart started to lack in this area, Walmart came in and took over. That's the torch being passed part. If it was the government, they would be in it to the death with no competition and no replacement (see Post Office for example).

Now, that said, Walmart has low wages and that's not good for the employment side of the equation. So good at moving product at a low rate efficiently while turning a profit, but bad at wages and benefits. But this is something that will always happen. Can't stop it. Wish we could, but no other model makes sense for our time. That's why we need strong leaders working day and night creating new industries and creating a pathway to better jobs in other sectors. We have NO ONE working on jobs right now. They want to focus on Walmart and McDonalds. Good luck. Our time is better spent focusing on how to have a better job than those places.

Next.

[The_Noble_Cause]

R's believe, and deeply, that a person should be responsible for themselves.

No, that's what they say in campaign ads and stump speeches, and then they use your tax payer dollars to bail out their friends.

And so to that end, they truly believe that a person should have the right to plan for their retirement in their own way. So they believe that a person should be able to invest their money in a plan, rather than giving it to the government. So when they get up there and fight for that, they are fighting for what they believe is a better way for folks to deal with retirement. Invest for yourself or be forced to pay the government when you don't want to. Seems logical. They aren't trying to harm Americans.

Boy howdy, that sounds great. Too bad Social Security was created out of necessity, because far too many old people were spending their last days drinking themselves to death on skid row. The safety net wasn't put in place to punish ordinary Americans. Get rid of Social Security and you are just shifting more people onto the Welfare rolls. Eliminating payroll taxes doesn't free up money for people to take an investing risk and become the next Warren Buffet - they simply spend it on flat screen TVs and useless crap.