Ross Valory Legally Strikes Back

[Monker]

I was wondering the same thing? TNC always takes Neal's side, but the guy is far from innocent in all this. Maybe having a year off will give him time to rethink his priorities.

We'll see what happens, but I'm thinking that Journey is going to be very scarred from this.

[Monker]

Maybe Journey's new album will be called "Nightmare."

Well, it shouldn't be called "Freedom", that's certain.

[Eric]

I'm defensive of the band Journey. Jonathan and Neal are the only two constants in that band that have contributed creatively in any real way. Maybe you should go create a forum to discuss your passion for the greedy and lazy shareholders of Nightmare Inc. It would be one thing for Ross and Smitty to block JTT If the actual Journey was doing something creative with them involved. Instead, their actions are to defend the status quo, maintain creative atrophy, and to undermine the leader of the band. There was no other choice but to fire them.

This X a million. There are a bunch of people who just want to ride on the gravy train. I side with those who want to put in the work.

[Eric]

He needs to get a band together, go out with whoever he wants, play whatever he wants, but leave the name "Journey" alone

But why shouldn't the guy who started it all and the guy who brought it all back in the late 90's without Perry be able to use Journey in the name of a band he has? Its insane. I'm not arguing this purely from a legal standpoint, I'm arguing it from a POV of fairness and common sense. That Valory would take issue with Schon doing Journey through Time is absolutely disgusting. It's bitter, weasly and lacks loyalty. I can't believe anyone who was part of watching Schon revive this band would stand for that. I always considered Valory very lucky to have met Schon and been able to be a part of this thing. I'm certain that what he brings to the table musically can be replaced and maybe even improved if the new bassist can write or sing.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neal's lawsuit comes off like a fairy tale, and you are just repeating it.

I've done no such thing. In a recent Bloomberg article, the attorney for Schon/Cain said that Ross and Smitty explicitly stated they wanted control of Nightmare for the purpose of royalties. If true, this proof will be revealed later on, maybe if this goes to trial. So I am just reading as many sources as possible and making up my own mind. You act as if everything there is to know is contained in the legal documents. That's not how this works.

The fact is, as you pointed out from the guy on YouTube, Ross and Steve Smith did not file the complaint against Neal regarding JTT.

Who? Real Music Observer? I have never used that fraud as a source in my life and never plan to. Stop making shit up.

Nightmare did that. Firing individuals from the band will not change who has stock in Nightmare, and who is on the board, and how the corporation acts to protect their interest in Journey. Neal is simply lashing out in a vengeful way. In the end, it will get him nowhere. He can't go out and stick "Journey" in a band name and not expect consequences. In fact, it's really not even "his band", it seems to me that it is Nightmare's band. I'm sure he's very happy with that.

You completely ignore the fact that a special meeting and vote was held to shift the power in Nightmare away Cain/Schon and put it in the hands of Ross/Smitty.

He needs to get a band together, go out with whoever he wants, play whatever he wants, but leave the name "Journey" alone

The only person without a band right now is Ross.

[Monker]

He needs to get a band together, go out with whoever he wants, play whatever he wants, but leave the name "Journey" alone

But why shouldn't the guy who started it all and the guy who brought it all back in the late 90's without Perry be able to use Journey in the name of a band he has?

For the same reason the guys who started "Little River Band" can not use the name in reference to their band and merchandise. Neal Schon does not own the name.

Its insane.

It's the law.

I'm not arguing this purely from a legal standpoint, I'm arguing it from a POV of fairness and common sense.

Neal took it to court where the POV of fairness and common sense is much less important than the contracts and documents he signed. Ross asked the court to decide who owns the Journey name. That is where things are now - in the hands of the court.

That Valory would take issue with Schon doing Journey through Time is absolutely disgusting.

There was an article that I read that there was to be marketing for JTT that obviously would have convoluted the Journey and JTT trademarks. Also, Neal has made statements about JTT and Journey which could be used in all of this. There is more to
this than just starting a new band.

Again, Valory and Smith did not object to JTT - NIGHTMARE did.

It's bitter, weasly and lacks loyalty.

Do you even realize the irony of that statement? Neal is the person publicly brought this out. Neal is he one firing people. Neal is the one who started JTT because he was not happy with Journey. But, you think it is "weasley" for the complay that owns Journey to protect its asset. That makes no sense.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Again, Valory and Smith did not object to JTT - NIGHTMARE did.

Legal counsel for Nightmare alerted the board of directors and shareholders, which includes Ross. You make it sound like Ross and Smith aren't a part of Nightmare.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's also worth noting that Schon/Cain's lawsuit says that Smith and Valory began maneuvering to seize power in December of 2019. I think there's more to this story.

[ebake02]

After surfing through this latest complaint, it seems like there are a lot details that Schon and Cain conveniently left out of their lawsuit. If that 1994 letter terminating the Elmo partners agreement is legit then their goose is cooked.

[Journey/Survivor]

I want something new and exciting!

I want Neal Schon to work with several of any combination of the following musicians....
Jonathan Cain
Gregg Rolie
Steve Smith
Ross Valory
Deen Castronovo
Randy Jackson
Arnel Pineda
Steve Augeri
Kevin Chalfant
JSS
Marco Mendoza
Aynsley Dunbar
Prairie Prince
Omar Hakim
Sammy Hagar
Johnny Gioeli
John Waite
Ricky Phillips
Todd Jensen
Steve Perry

Call it what ever the hell Schon wants to call it.

Make it ROCK, and if it includes Journey songs in the set list, play deep cuts and the new material.

If that means the end of "Journey" as we now know it, so be it! But put out some damn new music and stop playing the same hits for the ten billionth time in concert.


I'd rather have something completely new and exciting than just have Journey continue to be a damn jukebox band that never releases anything new and just plays the same damn songs show after show year after year.

[Monker]

Again, Valory and Smith did not object to JTT - NIGHTMARE did.

Legal counsel for Nightmare alerted the board of directors and shareholders, which includes Ross. You make it sound like Ross and Smith aren't a part of Nightmare.

This isn't even an argument. Again, it is a simple FACT that NIGHTMARE objected to JTT....it was THEIR attorneys who did this, not Ross and Steve Smith. Those are simple facts.

[Monker]

It's also worth noting that Schon/Cain's lawsuit says that Smith and Valory began maneuvering to seize power in December of 2019. I think there's more to this story.

Yeah, and Ross' argument is basically that Nightmare has the right to determine the make up of its own board of directors...and that it has added and lowered that number several times in the past. Frankly, it is also silly and ridiculous to say that Ross and Steve Smith control Nightmare and Journey...when people like Herbie and Steve Perry are also on that board - and voted for expanding it and including them. Those two are not exactly two people who like to give up power when it involves Journey.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yeah, and Ross' argument is basically that Nightmare has the right to determine the make up of its own board of directors...and that it has added and lowered that number several times in the past. Frankly, it is also silly and ridiculous to say that Ross and Steve Smith control Nightmare and Journey...when people like Herbie and Steve Perry are also on that board - and voted for expanding it and including them. Those two are not exactly two people who like to give up power when it involves Journey.

If the meeting was convened on fraudulent grounds, with a fake e-signature of the then president, Jon Cain, the whole vote is illegitimate.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This isn't even an argument. Again, it is a simple FACT that NIGHTMARE objected to JTT....it was THEIR attorneys who did this, not Ross and Steve Smith. Those are simple facts.

I would strongly advise you to actually read BOTH complaints before shooting off your crusty dickhole in these threads. Nightmare's legal counsel informed the shareholders that they had a legal obligation to oppose JTT. This led to the shareholders (i.e. Ross, Smitty, Perry etc) convening a special meeting to "protect the Journey mark." In other words, the shareholders objected to JTT. You could argue that Nightmare's attorney opposed JTT before Ross and Smith did - but it's not true to say that Ross and Smitty were neutral observers in this whole thing.

[Monker]

This isn't even an argument. Again, it is a simple FACT that NIGHTMARE objected to JTT....it was THEIR attorneys who did this, not Ross and Steve Smith. Those are simple facts.

I would strongly advise you to actually read BOTH complaints before shooting off your crusty dickhole in these threads. Nightmare's legal counsel informed the shareholders that they had a legal obligation to oppose JTT. This led to the shareholders (i.e. Ross, Smitty, Perry etc) convening a special meeting to "protect the Journey mark." In other words, the shareholders objected to JTT. You could argue that Nightmare's attorney opposed JTT before Ross and Smith did - but it's not true to say that Ross and Smitty were neutral observers in this whole thing.

This is so simple. Nightmare is a corporation. Nightmare filed the complaint. It is not delegated down to specific members of the board. Your argument is so convoluted that it is silly and will get Neal laughed out of court. If you own stock in Microsoft, if they file a complaint against another company, it does not mean that YOU filed that complaint because you own stock and have an interest in Microsoft.

The more you look at it, the more that is known, the more it looks like Neal's lawsuit is nothing more than vengeance against Ross and Steve Smith and him being pissed off that he does not have complete control of Journey.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is so simple. Nightmare is a corporation. Nightmare filed the complaint. It is not delegated down to specific members of the board. Your argument is so convoluted that it is silly and will get Neal laughed out of court. If you own stock in Microsoft, if they file a complaint against another company, it does not mean that YOU filed that complaint because you own stock and have an interest in Microsoft.

You said "Valory and Smith did not object to JTT - NIGHTMARE did."
If that was true, why did the shareholders - including Ross/Smitty - convene a special meeting to block JTT and protect the Journey mark?
Nobody denied the attorney's involvement.

The more you look at it, the more that is known, the more it looks like Neal's lawsuit is nothing more than vengeance against Ross and Steve Smith and him being pissed off that he does not have complete control of Journey.

It's Neal and Cain's lawsuit. Not just Neal.

[RonaldDupris]

Where are you reading this stuff about Arnel's movie career? I'm not finding it, there is so much shit to read through.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Where are you reading this stuff about Arnel's movie career? I'm not finding it, there is so much shit to read through.

It was announced in 2018 by most Hollywood trade outlets that the "Crazy Rich Asians" director and Warner Bros. was doing a movie about Arnel's life. Ross's lawsuit states that Neal/Jon tried to block the movie going forward after Ross/Smitty interfered with JTT and ousted Cain as president of Nightmare.

[JourneyHard]

I want something new and exciting!

I want Neal Schon to work with several of any combination of the following musicians....
Jonathan Cain
Gregg Rolie
Steve Smith
Ross Valory
Deen Castronovo
Randy Jackson
Arnel Pineda
Steve Augeri
Kevin Chalfant
JSS
Marco Mendoza
Aynsley Dunbar
Prairie Prince
Omar Hakim
Sammy Hagar
Johnny Gioeli
John Waite
Ricky Phillips
Todd Jensen
Steve Perry

Call it what ever the hell Schon wants to call it.

Make it ROCK, and if it includes Journey songs in the set list, play deep cuts and the new material.

If that means the end of "Journey" as we now know it, so be it! But put out some damn new music and stop playing the same hits for the ten billionth time in concert.


I'd rather have something completely new and exciting than just have Journey continue to be a damn jukebox band that never releases anything new and just plays the same damn songs show after show year after year.

I agree with this 100%. Neal must be going crazy playing the same 14 songs in concert over and over again.

[bellairepark73]

Reading Ross' counter-suit felt and sounded like a real, legal document written by an ADULT. Reading Neal and Jon's sounded like a 15 year old fan wrote it. Very little weight behind it. Since Herbie signed the vote siding with Ross and Smith, all i think was done was switching titles and adding members. Neal got into a hissy fit.

[Monker]

Reading Ross' counter-suit felt and sounded like a real, legal document written by an ADULT. Reading Neal and Jon's sounded like a 15 year old fan wrote it. Very little weight behind it. Since Herbie signed the vote siding with Ross and Smith, all i think was done was switching titles and adding members. Neal got into a hissy fit.

I agree...and I think Neal got into a hissy fit because: He doesn't control Journey the way he thinks he is entitled to. And, he can not do whatever he wants to with JTT.

In Ross's counter, he asks the courts to determine who controls Journey. If it ends up being Nightmare and not Neal/Jonathan, well, it will be interesting to see what the future holds for the band.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Since Herbie signed the vote siding with Ross and Smith, all i think was done was switching titles and adding members. Neal got into a hissy fit.

Again, this is Cain and Schon's suit - not just Schon's. The suit alleges that Cain's signature was forged. Cain's not an idiot. Why would he lie about that?

[Monker]

Since Herbie signed the vote siding with Ross and Smith, all i think was done was switching titles and adding members. Neal got into a hissy fit.

Again, this is Cain and Schon's suit - not just Schon's. The suit alleges that Cain's signature was forged. Cain's not an idiot. Why would he lie about that?

Because Neal told him to, and he's obviously Neal's bitch

[Monker]

Reading Ross' counter-suit felt and sounded like a real, legal document written by an ADULT. Reading Neal and Jon's sounded like a 15 year old fan wrote it. Very little weight behind it. Since Herbie signed the vote siding with Ross and Smith, all i think was done was switching titles and adding members. Neal got into a hissy fit.

Oh, and BTW, Steve Perry also voted against Neal and Jonathan. In fact, all of the stock holders voted against Neal and Jonathan, except Neal and Jonathan, of course. Neal did not attend, and Jonathan did not vote. That should say a lot.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Oh, and BTW, Steve Perry also voted against Neal and Jonathan. In fact, all of the stock holders voted against Neal and Jonathan, except Neal and Jonathan, of course. Neal did not attend, and Jonathan did not vote. That should say a lot.

The story of Journey's ressurection has always pitted Cain/Schon vs. the rest of the world. They had to prove themselves to skeptical promoters to radio stations to fans and now, finally, to a jury of their peers. Honestly, I can't think of a more fitting coda to the band's post Perry legacy than this.

[marco17]

Regardless to what this all boils down to, the reality is that Ross and Smith are out of the band one way or another. You can't have something like this go down, and if the court sides with them, they just magically reappear on stage with Cain, Schon, and Arnel. My guess is regardless to what happens, the lawyers will figure something out and Ross and Smith will get paid, so they won't have to do anything again. Smith probably doesn't care anyway, it's not like he was racing back to the Journey train all those years.

If you're going to call it Journey at this point, it has to be the duo of Cain and Schon... They need each other and the name to make the $. JTT may have been good, and die-hard fans loved it, but they weren't filling sheds or arenas, so unless Neal figures out how to really get it off the ground, it's not much more than a passion project. Arnel may wield a little power over them, but at this point in the game, do they really want to find their 100th lead singer? I doubt it.

[FamilyMan]

I for one still believe if some judge rules that Ross and/or Smitty still have a legal, controlling stake in Journey - and it requires them to either be paid, or rehired - Neal will cave. As we can see from his daily videos, all this guy really loves is playing. And playing live. Whatever - and whoever - it requires to keep the gravy train rolling, he will settle for.

[The_Noble_Cause]

JTT may have been good, and die-hard fans loved it, but they weren't filling sheds or arenas, so unless Neal figures out how to really get it off the ground, it's not much more than a passion project.

How would you know? JTT was killed by Ross and the rest of Nightmare before it had a chance to even get off the ground.

[Monker]

JTT may have been good, and die-hard fans loved it, but they weren't filling sheds or arenas, so unless Neal figures out how to really get it off the ground, it's not much more than a passion project.

How would you know? JTT was killed by Ross and the rest of Nightmare before it had a chance to even get off the ground.

Nightmare's filing did not happen until March of this year. So, JTT had plenty of time. In addition, the Gregg interview from a few months ago, before all of this, had everybody believing JTT was defunct. Gregg was asked about JTT and he said he had more interesting things to do.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Nightmare's filing did not happen until March of this year. So, JTT had plenty of time.

By March 2020, JTT had done what? 5 shows total? Get real. Most of Neal's time was spent on the road helping to enrich Ross and Smitty's ungrateful asses. As I already said, JTT was killed while still in the cradle. Hopefully some of the never released JTT music finds its way onto a new Journey record.