Shove the Apology!

[MartyMoffatt]

To clarify yet again: the point has been to "make a break" from the current fan base by doing something DIFFERENT.

That's what the Latin rhythm project could do. Help them make a break from their past and help them move into the future.

And what I'm saying now is that bringing in JSS can provide them with another opportunity to make a break. It doesn't have to be Latin rhythms - just something DIFFERENT. They had an opportunity with SA and missed it. If they brought him back they may have another but that's a big maybe. With JSS the window has been thrown wide open.

Yes - they've already made some hints about going heavier rock. Andrew has already commented in response to me that Latin rhythms are way off the reality chart.

I will say now that I believe this to be a big mistake. Being "heavy" won't be different enough to help them make the break that they need. It will only serve to further polarize the current fan base. Yes - it will potentially bring in some JSS fans but that won't be enough to counter the polarization.

They need to do something that is "out there" - something that they've NOT done before. This may be viewed by some as something "desperate" as you've noted but that's highly unlikely to be the overall general perception.

JOURNEY has been throwing predictable pitches now for several years. They need to slip in a curveball.

Talking of curveballs, JSS had some material for a new solo album (which probably won't see the light of day now) with a feel and a groove radically different from what you might have expected from him. His versatility is such that he could head off in ANY direction Journey wants to go, and make it sound real, not forced. In fact the whole band are talented enough to take on any musical style - there just has to be the will and the agreement to go there.

Marty

[Saint John]

Perversely, now that JSS appears to be taking over the reins, Journey have a small window of opportunity to expand on that legacy. JSS has a relevance to more modern contemporary music that means he will appeal to a lot of concert-goers and record buyers who maybe wouldn't have bothered going to see Journey with either Augeri OR Perry and wouldn't look to buy an album of new material. A lot of JSS' influences and musical styles are MTV friendly, not just VH1 Classic friendly, and if he can exert that influence on future material they can reach a wider audience. It may not be to everyody's taste, but it's the ONLY way Journey will ever achieve any kind of new chart sales success.

And this is EXACTLY what's been behind my promotion and push for the Latin rhythm project!

Neal noted that he wanted to explore these rhythms and I supported it because I felt then as I do now that what JOURNEY needs is to reach out and expand their fan base.

While people have berated me for "beating a dead horse" regarding the Latin rhythm project those are the same people who never "got it". JOURNEY moving on with JSS will broaden the fan base as you've noted and THAT has been my argument and push for the last few years now. They had opportunity to do that with SA but SONY demanding that Arrival be adult contemporary and the nostalgic fans slammed that window shut - right on their fingers.

The only way a "Latin rhythm project" might work is if they throw 2 or 3 such tunes on a full length album. An ENTIRE album of such songs would be viewed as a desperate attempt by a band that is STILL trying to adjust to life "after Steve Perry." They'd be the laughing stock of the music industry. Journey is about organic music. If they set a course specifically designed to take them from "point A" to "point B" my guess is that it would stymie their creative styles. And where do Cain and Castronovo fit in? Rolie and Smith would be far better choices for such an undertaking, considering their backgrounds in such music. All in all, I think you're idea isn'ta good one. Though I do respect the way you've presented many of your ideas.

PS Journey's all but said that they're heading in a "heavier rock" direction.

To clarify yet again: the point has been to "make a break" from the current fan base by doing something DIFFERENT.

That's what the Latin rhythm project could do. Help them make a break from their past and help them move into the future.

And what I'm saying now is that bringing in JSS can provide them with another opportunity to make a break. It doesn't have to be Latin rhythms - just something DIFFERENT. They had an opportunity with SA and missed it. If they brought him back they may have another but that's a big maybe. With JSS the window has been thrown wide open.

Yes - they've already made some hints about going heavier rock. Andrew has already commented in response to me that Latin rhythms are way off the reality chart.

I will say now that I believe this to be a big mistake. Being "heavy" won't be different enough to help them make the break that they need. It will only serve to further polarize the current fan base. Yes - it will potentially bring in some JSS fans but that won't be enough to counter the polarization.

They need to do something that is "out there" - something that they've NOT done before. This may be viewed by some as something "desperate" as you've noted but that's highly unlikely to be the overall general perception.

JOURNEY has been throwing predictable pitches now for several years. They need to slip in a curveball.

Greatest Hits sells about 500,000 copies per year. Journey would be foolish to "make a break" from these fans. Rather, they need to create something that they would buy. The base is there, it's just not energized/interested. THAT is the job of mangement....to find out what the base wants and to make sure the band has the proper members to morph that into music. Making a break from fans that bought 75,000,000 albums just doesn't seem like good business to me. We deserve better than that. Leave the "selling out" to Santana.

[Matthew]

As funny as that is you still haven't explained what the crisis is/was.

Fyre - I have explained what the crisis is. Journey are now an UNSIGNED BAND. Journey! One of the most famous and successful bands in the history of American music! A band who have sold 75 million albums! Without a record deal! Wake up man!

But just to avoid going round and round in circles on this point - let's just call it a 'rut'. You write eloquently and persistently about the urgent need for Journey to do something different so I'm assuming that you believe Journey's career has become stagnant and backward-looking...even if you think 'crisis' is too strong a word.

GENERATIONS was born of SA's desire to create a solo project. If he was/is the anvil chained around JOURNEY's neck as you like to suggest then WHY did they immediately jump on SA's ideas and use them to spark another JOURNEY album? JOURNEY must be the guy on Supertramp's cover, too!

Yes - they are EXACTLY like the guy on the Supertramp cover. For Schon and Cain to take their lead from an Augeri solo project reveals just how complacent and uninspired the band became - and as co-creators of the legendary Journey legacy Schon and Cain must ultimately take the responsibility for all the failures and indignities of the last eight years.

What is SA - some king of svengali that has Neal and everyone else under some kind of hypnotic trance <insert creepy Ed Wood B-movie music here>

We agree on this, Fyre....that theory is indeed as preposterous as any film by Ed Wood.

Why don't you explain exactly what this crisis is/was! If you can't then it seems to me that it's a figment of imagination and not a reality.

Why don't you read my replies to your bizarro comments? I've repeated myself so often on this point I'm surprised you haven't told me to 'change the record' instead.

my mind has been clear on the "decline" since they released E5C4P3 in 1981!

Just as Herbie Herbert warned and predicted: when you get a #1 it's all downhill from there!

HH was right - and that's why many acts quit at the top or know when to call it a day (Beatles, Led Zep, etc). Journey decided to press on regardless, to manage their decline and make the best of it. But at what point would you say ENOUGH? What would constitute a rock bottom in your view?

However JOURNEY can still get a #1 SINGLE but chances of that happening in the melodic rock genre or adult contemporary are slim.

Why not? Maybe, just maybe JSS has put them in with a chance. At the very least there are new opportunities to be explored....

The band just wasted away until 1996... SO - did JOURNEY "recover" with TBF? Nope. They were merely awakened.

This is like saying The Eagles "wasted away" in the 1980s and "recovered" in the 1990s. The fact is...the Eagles had their spectacularly successful era in the 1970s and QUIT AT THE TOP. And then they REFORMED after selling millions upon millions of back catalogue albums in between.

Same with Journey....

Then SA came along and helped breathe new life into a band

Journey lost 750,000 CD-buying fans and got dropped by their record label five years after being "awakened" by the TBF reunion. Behold the Augeri renaissance!

For 8 years JOURNEYhas been a successful touring machine despite the downhill slope of:

4. The nostalgic fan base.

Despite the nostalgic fan base? The only reason Journey are still making ANY income from touring is BECAUSE of the nostalgic fan base.

But I'm pleased to see that you've finally admitted that there has been a downhill slope over the last eight years.

While you're focusing in ONLY on the last 8 years I'm considering the ENTIRE PICTURE.

Let me clarify this, Fyre....yes, Journey's 'frontlist' career has been declining since 1981. I am not arguing that it was ONLY the arrival of Augeri which brought about the downturn.

My point is that the Augeri years saw Journey's career sink below an acceptable level of decline. TBF represented a decline too - but it was just successful enough for the band to retain their dignity and to maintain the status of the Journey name.

BUT considernig that Neal's regret has been that they didn't move on without SP after 1988 do you think he'd want to live to regret it AGAIN?

Can you IMAGINE the controversy if Schon had continued with Journey in 1988? The fact is Schon and Cain weren't confident enough about making this move then - and good thing too because they were given an opportunity to try and make it without Perry holding their hand.

Yes. It's because they didn't see the kind of $$$ that they saw with SP. That's entirely true but it doesn't take anything away from SA.

Why doesn't it take anything away from Augeri? The record company saw - rightly - that Augeri was an inferior singer and frontman who just didn't have what it takes to sustain the band's career as a serious recording act.

I didn't think you did, either. So SA was "wrong"?

No - Augeri was right to follow his dream...etc...etc....but Journey were "wrong" to hire him.

Bob Seger is Bob Seger. He's NOT a band with a largely divided fan base polarized between favorite singers.

And here you highlight another problem with the Augeri era. The majority of fans lost interest and Journey were left with dwindling bunch of squabbling die-hards.

Of course he can still "do it"!

Fyre - why do you think Journey aren't sticking by Augeri? You keep saying everyone has got it wrong about the recent developments in Augeri's career and his aibility to remain as the frontman? But the band seemingly disagree with you.

There isn't a single "nostalgic" band out there right now in their original lineup from their #1 days enjoying similar success.

No - but there are many acts who have retained a huge part of their audience and who are still signed to major record labels.

You're so locked into hanging everything on SA that you can't see it. Maybe YOU are the guy on the Supertramp cover...?

Actually, I'm hanging everything on Schon and Cain - including TapeGate.

[Ratgirl]

"No. I would ignore them and go on. You did your best"

Whether or not everybody accepts your apology or isn't so important. What's most important is whether or not your apology was truly from the heart. The best thing to do is move on forward the best way you see fit and not worry about it, Dean.

I agree.

I just started posting here not too long ago and have only been around BT for about a year.
I dont know the whole story but the way I see it is you've said your part and if people still have a problem with you then it's obviously their problem not yours.

I enjoy both sites for two entirely different reasons and I will not let myself get involved in taking sides.

Sorry it took so long to reply I've been out of town.

[NealIsGod]

I enjoy both sites for two entirely different reasons

I think that says it all. The forums serve two entirely different purposes. There will always be dissension, but so what? It's all just for fun anyway.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

To clarify yet again: the point has been to "make a break" from the current fan base by doing something DIFFERENT.

That's what the Latin rhythm project could do. Help them make a break from their past and help them move into the future.

And what I'm saying now is that bringing in JSS can provide them with another opportunity to make a break. It doesn't have to be Latin rhythms - just something DIFFERENT. They had an opportunity with SA and missed it. If they brought him back they may have another but that's a big maybe. With JSS the window has been thrown wide open.

Yes - they've already made some hints about going heavier rock. Andrew has already commented in response to me that Latin rhythms are way off the reality chart.

I will say now that I believe this to be a big mistake. Being "heavy" won't be different enough to help them make the break that they need. It will only serve to further polarize the current fan base. Yes - it will potentially bring in some JSS fans but that won't be enough to counter the polarization.

They need to do something that is "out there" - something that they've NOT done before. This may be viewed by some as something "desperate" as you've noted but that's highly unlikely to be the overall general perception.

JOURNEY has been throwing predictable pitches now for several years. They need to slip in a curveball.

Talking of curveballs, JSS had some material for a new solo album (which probably won't see the light of day now) with a feel and a groove radically different from what you might have expected from him. His versatility is such that he could head off in ANY direction Journey wants to go, and make it sound real, not forced. In fact the whole band are talented enough to take on any musical style - there just has to be the will and the agreement to go there.

Marty

That's the fact, Jack!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Perversely, now that JSS appears to be taking over the reins, Journey have a small window of opportunity to expand on that legacy. JSS has a relevance to more modern contemporary music that means he will appeal to a lot of concert-goers and record buyers who maybe wouldn't have bothered going to see Journey with either Augeri OR Perry and wouldn't look to buy an album of new material. A lot of JSS' influences and musical styles are MTV friendly, not just VH1 Classic friendly, and if he can exert that influence on future material they can reach a wider audience. It may not be to everyody's taste, but it's the ONLY way Journey will ever achieve any kind of new chart sales success.

And this is EXACTLY what's been behind my promotion and push for the Latin rhythm project!

Neal noted that he wanted to explore these rhythms and I supported it because I felt then as I do now that what JOURNEY needs is to reach out and expand their fan base.

While people have berated me for "beating a dead horse" regarding the Latin rhythm project those are the same people who never "got it". JOURNEY moving on with JSS will broaden the fan base as you've noted and THAT has been my argument and push for the last few years now. They had opportunity to do that with SA but SONY demanding that Arrival be adult contemporary and the nostalgic fans slammed that window shut - right on their fingers.

The only way a "Latin rhythm project" might work is if they throw 2 or 3 such tunes on a full length album. An ENTIRE album of such songs would be viewed as a desperate attempt by a band that is STILL trying to adjust to life "after Steve Perry." They'd be the laughing stock of the music industry. Journey is about organic music. If they set a course specifically designed to take them from "point A" to "point B" my guess is that it would stymie their creative styles. And where do Cain and Castronovo fit in? Rolie and Smith would be far better choices for such an undertaking, considering their backgrounds in such music. All in all, I think you're idea isn'ta good one. Though I do respect the way you've presented many of your ideas.

PS Journey's all but said that they're heading in a "heavier rock" direction.

To clarify yet again: the point has been to "make a break" from the current fan base by doing something DIFFERENT.

That's what the Latin rhythm project could do. Help them make a break from their past and help them move into the future.

And what I'm saying now is that bringing in JSS can provide them with another opportunity to make a break. It doesn't have to be Latin rhythms - just something DIFFERENT. They had an opportunity with SA and missed it. If they brought him back they may have another but that's a big maybe. With JSS the window has been thrown wide open.

Yes - they've already made some hints about going heavier rock. Andrew has already commented in response to me that Latin rhythms are way off the reality chart.

I will say now that I believe this to be a big mistake. Being "heavy" won't be different enough to help them make the break that they need. It will only serve to further polarize the current fan base. Yes - it will potentially bring in some JSS fans but that won't be enough to counter the polarization.

They need to do something that is "out there" - something that they've NOT done before. This may be viewed by some as something "desperate" as you've noted but that's highly unlikely to be the overall general perception.

JOURNEY has been throwing predictable pitches now for several years. They need to slip in a curveball.

Greatest Hits sells about 500,000 copies per year. Journey would be foolish to "make a break" from these fans. Rather, they need to create something that they would buy. The base is there, it's just not energized/interested. THAT is the job of mangement....to find out what the base wants and to make sure the band has the proper members to morph that into music. Making a break from fans that bought 75,000,000 albums just doesn't seem like good business to me. We deserve better than that. Leave the "selling out" to Santana.

Let's look at your statement: "create something that the GH buyers would buy" So you want JOURNEY to create another Infinity, Evolution, Escape, Frontiers, ROR, and TBF and then somehow mangle it all together in one album...?

Haven't they been there/done that?

I'm a big believer in what SP said in the Houston DVD interviews: "We took that music (everything prior to Escape) as far as we could. You have to make a change otherwise you just dry up and blow away."

All JOURNEY albums stand on their own as unique works. They're all different but still sound like JOURNEY. It's this concept of changing - evolving - that helped make the band so successful in the first place! It's funny because people will say SP's voice "made" JOURNEY when arguably it may have been his drive to explore new frontiers.

Let's look at the last 10 years. TBF was a change. It was something of a buffet that echoed all their previous efforts - kind of what you're suggesting they do. Arrival was a change. It was sappy, adult contemporary. Red 13 was a change. It was heavier than anything previously. Generations was a change. It was a stripped down, nuts & bolts production with songs that clearly said, "JOURNEY" and others that didn't.

Even with these changes JOURNEY was producing what I think you were getting at: something that the GH buyers might buy. However, they didn't buy! The reason is perhaps because the GH buyers are buying a compilation from a bygone era. They're not interested in anything "new". They're interested in the old and familiar. Nothing wrong with that - I just don't think that that's the target market group for new stuff as you've suggested.

I think the target market group for new stuff is a new audience in a new genre. Ultimately, a "curveball production" like an EP or full-blown LP could serve to help unite the polarized fan base because it would be coming from something of a neutral place.

ROR is considered the least JOURNEYesque effort YET it had several high charting releases and peaked in the Top 10! WHY? Because it was DIFFERENT. It wasn't just another Infinity or Escape. It was DIFFERENT than anything they'd done previously. The same can be said regarding every other album. JOURNEY has endeavored to be different. Why stop now? Why not strike out into new frontiers and help a divided fan base heal as well as attract a whole other group?

It's not selling out. It's evolving in order to survive.

My bottom line is that I just don't think TBF, Arrival, Red 13, or Generations were different ENOUGH. The JOURNEY sound didn't bring anything oustanding to those works that hadn't been done before.

If they don't strike out into something truly new and different then they run the risk of drying up and blowing away.

[Matthew]

Let's look at your statement: "create something that the GH buyers would buy" So you want JOURNEY to create another Infinity, Evolution, Escape, Frontiers, ROR, and TBF and then somehow mangle it all together in one album...?

Haven't they been there/done that?

I'm a big believer in what SP said in the Houston DVD interviews: "We took that music (everything prior to Escape) as far as we could. You have to make a change otherwise you just dry up and blow away."

All JOURNEY albums stand on their own as unique works. They're all different but still sound like JOURNEY. It's this concept of changing - evolving - that helped make the band so successful in the first place! It's funny because people will say SP's voice "made" JOURNEY when arguably it may have been his drive to explore new frontiers.

Let's look at the last 10 years. TBF was a change. It was something of a buffet that echoed all their previous efforts - kind of what you're suggesting they do. Arrival was a change. It was sappy, adult contemporary. Red 13 was a change. It was heavier than anything previously. Generations was a change. It was a stripped down, nuts & bolts production with songs that clearly said, "JOURNEY" and others that didn't.

Even with these changes JOURNEYwas producing what I think you were getting at: something that the GH buyers might buy. However, they didn't buy! The reason is perhaps because the GH buyers are buying a compilation from a bygone era. They're not interested in anything "new". They're interested in the old and familiar. Nothing wrong with that - I just don't think that that's the target market group for new stuff as you've suggested.

I think the target market group for new stuff is a new audience in a new genre. Ultimately, a "curveball production" like an EP or full-blown LP could serve to help unite the polarized fan base because it would be coming from something of a neutral place.

ROR is considered the least JOURNEYesque effort YET it had several high charting releases and peaked in the Top 10! WHY? Because it was DIFFERENT. It wasn't just another Infinity or Escape. It was DIFFERENT than anything they'd done previously. The same can be said regarding every other album. JOURNEY has endeavored to be different. Why stop now? Why not strike out into new frontiers and help a divided fan base heal as well as attract a whole other group?

It's not selling out. It's evolving in order to survive.

My bottom line is that I just don't think TBF, Arrival, Red 13, or Generations were different ENOUGH. The JOURNEY sound didn't bring anything oustanding to those works that hadn't been done before.

If they don't strike out into something truly new and different then they run the risk of drying up and blowing away.

Fyre! I hate to admit it but that was a great post....and I agreed with every word.

[fred_journeyman]

...I think the target market group for new stuff is a new audience in a new genre. Ultimately, a "curveball production" like an EP or full-blown LP could serve to help unite the polarized fan base because it would be coming from something of a neutral place....

Out of curiousity Fyre, do you have any ideas on what this "curveball production" would sound like?

I've been giving that a good deal of thought myself and I can't really come up with anything. Then again, I'm not the guy writing the music for it. For me, Frontiers was a huge curveball. It took me time to like some of the songs on it. TBF was another curveball.

I think you may be right that Journey's music has evolved with each new release; each one being their own curveball.

Well, if the guys DO decide to produce a new, full blown CD, then we can only hope that it will not only be a curveball that will catch us by surprise, but one that will still have that solid Journey sound to it. That's a tall order to fill.

[Matthew]

[ It's this concept of changing - evolving - that helped make the band so successful in the first place! It's funny because people will say SP's voice "made" JOURNEY when arguably it may have been his drive to explore new frontiers.

This is SO true....and Journey have badly missed this drive. So much will depend on JSS's ability to pursuade the others to shake things up. And what's the risk involved? The band will always have the old classics to fall back on if the record stiffs.

[Matthew]

For me, Frontiers was a huge curveball. It took me time to like some of the songs on it. TBF was another curveball.

I agree Fred...and so too was ROR. What made Journey so exciting and impressive in the 1980s was their ability to keep pushing the Journey sound forward...to take risks and keep challenging the fans...to NEVER fall into a safe rut.

However - much as I love many tracks on TBF I do think it was a relatively 'safe' album...which wasn't quite as forward-looking as the previous ones...and the Augeri albums were little more than a pastiche of 80s AOR in general.

[SF-Dano]

I don't understand some fans need for this band to be commercially successful. They are a successful touring act. I think we can agree on that as fact. All I want from Journey as a long time fan (including the Augeri era), is for the band to be able to afford to continue touring and putting out music that I enjoy. I really liked Arrival, Red 13 was just OK to me, and I liked probably half to 2/3 of Generations. I have always liked this band for the style of music they played, not heavy hard rock, not too pop, not completely sappy ballads. But a nice sound somewhere in between. That is the "Journey" sound to me. If they were to change their sound to something completely different, would it still be Journey? Yes, it would be the same group of musicians, but I fell in love with the "sound" (and no not just the "voice"). I don't know if I would be a fan of a purely Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Journey. In all honesty, I would probably enjoy it, but I would not be as big of a fan as I am now or have been in the past. I think that "change" would take away Journey's individuality or that "sound" that differentiates them from the rest of the field.

As far as the latin thing goes, I could accept a few tunes in that style on a release as it is a part of the history of the band and the players, and I personally enjoy some of that style. Neal started with Santana and Azteca and played in Abraxas Pool, they do have La Raza in their catalog and did a wonderful job of it on tour and in the 2001 DVD. I thought Deen's drumming was a highlight on that and Jon Cain's soloing/jamming was great.

I as a fan don't need Journey at the top of the charts to validate my being a fan. And I don't subscribe to the ruining the legacy thing. The "legacy" only matters to some of us hardcore fans, it is not an issue in the mind of the casual rock fan. It is all about the music, not the "music business". I am a fan of several other muscians that never had or maintained huge chart success. Examples:Jeff Beck, Ronnie Montrose, Pat Travers, Robin Trower, Michael Schenker, Y&T, Lynrd Skynrd (current), Deep Purple (80s onward), Dream Theater, and many others. Why limit oneself to only what is popular? If it is not popular, does that make it no good?

[Red13JoePa]

Terrific post, Dano.

[Granny]

I agree with 13...

[Matthew]

I don't understand some fans need for this band to be commercially successful. They are a successful touring act. I think we can agree on that as fact. All I want from Journey as a long time fan (including the Augeri era), is for the band to be able to afford to continue touring and putting out music that I enjoy. I really liked Arrival, Red 13 was just OK to me, and I liked probably half to 2/3 of Generations. I have always liked this band for the style of music they played, not heavy hard rock, not too pop, not completely sappy ballads. But a nice sound somewhere in between. That is the "Journey" sound to me. If they were to change their sound to something completely different, would it still be Journey? Yes, it would be the same group of musicians, but I fell in love with the "sound" (and no not just the "voice"). I don't know if I would be a fan of a purely Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Journey. In all honesty, I would probably enjoy it, but I would not be as big of a fan as I am now or have been in the past. I think that "change" would take away Journey's individuality or that "sound" that differentiates them from the rest of the field.

As far as the latin thing goes, I could accept a few tunes in that style on a release as it is a part of the history of the band and the players, and I personally enjoy some of that style. Neal started with Santana and Azteca and played in Abraxas Pool, they do have La Raza in their catalog and did a wonderful job of it on tour and in the 2001 DVD. I thought Deen's drumming was a highlight on that and Jon Cain's soloing/jamming was great.

I as a fan don't need Journey at the top of the charts to validate my being a fan. And I don't subscribe to the ruining the legacy thing. The "legacy" only matters to some of us hardcore fans, it is not an issue in the mind of the casual rock fan. It is all about the music, not the "music business". I am a fan of several other muscians that never had or maintained huge chart success. Examples:Jeff Beck, Ronnie Montrose, Pat Travers, Robin Trower, Michael Schenker, Y&T, Lynrd Skynrd (current), Deep Purple (80s onward), Dream Theater, and many others. Why limit oneself to only what is popular? If it is not popular, does that make it no good?

Great post, SF - and I guess you're right - maybe we do get too hung up about Journey's status and commercial appeal.

On the question of Journey exploring new territory - I do think you're possibly underestimating the versatility and scope of the 'Journey sound'. The group have reinvented themselves many times before and if they could successfully make the transition from progressive/jazz rock to hard rock to smooth AOR/RnB there's no reason why they can't surprise us now. As long as Neal is in the band Journey will always have a key element of their 'signature sound', I reckon.

[ArnelRox]

Whatever we want, don't u guys think that Journey would like to be commercially successful again (w/out Perry)? Don't u think that Jeff would like to be commercially successful?

I know that was something Augeri really wanted. I heard those words come out of his mouth w/my own ears.

Jeff hasn't enjoyed commercial success in the US yet. Don't u think that's something he would love? Why do u think he just wants to be part of a touring band?

As for heavier rock, that's how the band started. I don't think that's where they're going back to. They have a great singer now. I think they're gonna write for his voice & make the most of it.

[Melissa]

Whatever we want, don't u guys think that Journey would like to be commercially successful again (w/out Perry)? Don't u think that Jeff would like to be commercially successful?

I know that was something Augeri really wanted. I heard those words come out of his mouth w/my own ears.

Jeff hasn't enjoyed commercial success in the US yet. Don't u think that's something he would love? Why do u think he just wants to be part of a touring band?

As for heavier rock, that's how the band started. I don't think that's where they're going back to. They have a great singer now. I think they're gonna write for his voice & make the most of it.

I think Jeff would love it dearly, & no one deserves it more than him.

[Matthew]

Whatever we want, don't u guys think that Journey would like to be commercially successful again (w/out Perry)? Don't u think that Jeff would like to be commercially successful?

Yes - JSS has the look of a man who is hungry for success - and this seems to have woken Schon and Cain up a bit. This ambition will - I hope - add some fire to the band's creativity too.

SF Dano was right to say that the quality of the music is the most important thing and that our support shouldn't be conditional on the band returning to the limelight - but equally if the band has the same mood of indifference or resignation re: commercial success which most Augeri fans display then we'll end up with another lacklustre album, I reckon.

[ohsherrie]

Whatever we want, don't u guys think that Journey would like to be commercially successful again (w/out Perry)? Don't u think that Jeff would like to be commercially successful?

Yes - JSS has the look of a man who is hungry for success - and this seems to have woken Schon and Cain up a bit. This ambition will - I hope - add some fire to the band's creativity too.

SF Dano was right to say that the quality of the music is the most important thing and that our support shouldn't be conditional on the band returning to the limelight - but equally if the band has the same mood of indifference or resignation re: commercial success which most Augeri fans display then we'll end up with another lacklustre album, I reckon.

Even if we don't base our opinion of the music on it's commercial success it's nice to have the artist we like get the recognition we feel they deserve. I know the band has to want that recognition for their efforts too.

You're right Matt, if the band doesn't strive for that then the complacency will show in what they produce just like it did with Generations.

[fred_journeyman]

SF Dano was right to say that the quality of the music is the most important thing and that our support shouldn't be conditional on the band returning to the limelight - but equally if the band has the same mood of indifference or resignation re: commercial success which most Augeri fans display then we'll end up with another lacklustre album, I reckon.

True on both counts. I continue to listen to Three Dog Night and numerous other bands because of their music. I only have one condition for listening to a band - do I like their music? If I don't, it's a simple matter of walking away. I stopped listening to Rush's material after Signals because I just didn't like it anymore. Call me a "conditional listener" but that's too bad. I'm not going to continue following a group simply because I always have. They have to gain and keep my attention with each new CD they release.

[NealIsGod]

I'm not going to continue following a group simply because I always have. They have to gain and keep my attention with each new CD they release.

So you must have liked Arrival and Gens?

[ArnelRox]

I only have one condition for listening to a band - do I like their music? If I don't, it's a simple matter of walking away. I stopped listening to Rush's material after Signals because I just didn't like it anymore. Call me a "conditional listener" but that's too bad. I'm not going to continue following a group simply because I always have. They have to gain and keep my attention with each new CD they release.

I am not quite as strict as u in my conditions. If I like a band, & they come out w/1-2 CDs I don't like, I'll still try the 3rd. After that, I'll check out others if people I know & trust say they're worth giving a shot to but I won't buy them right off the bat. I don't know any band/artist that I've followed thru their career & liked everything they've done. If Journey had put out another album like Generations, I would have begun to stick to the back catalogue & only given a cursory look/listen to other albums. I was never so disappointed in anything in my life that Journey put out as Generations. In my opinion 95% of the album sucked. Red13 wasn't great but at least it was listenable & rocking. Arrival had its moments. But Journey was getting to that point where I was losing interest in the new material. I am sooooooooooo glad they changed singers & I'm really looking forward to something new & exciting w/Jeff.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

...I think the target market group for new stuff is a new audience in a new genre. Ultimately, a "curveball production" like an EP or full-blown LP could serve to help unite the polarized fan base because it would be coming from something of a neutral place....

Out of curiousity Fyre, do you have any ideas on what this "curveball production" would sound like?

I've been giving that a good deal of thought myself and I can't really come up with anything. Then again, I'm not the guy writing the music for it. For me, Frontiers was a huge curveball. It took me time to like some of the songs on it. TBF was another curveball.

I think you may be right that Journey's music has evolved with each new release; each one being their own curveball.

Well, if the guys DO decide to produce a new, full blown CD, then we can only hope that it will not only be a curveball that will catch us by surprise, but one that will still have that solid Journey sound to it. That's a tall order to fill.

I don't see why the curveball couldn't be an exploration into Latin rhythms. They could even have a couple songs in Spanish as JSS is fluent. Bring in Gibby Ross or whomever to bolster the rhythm section and have JC jump on the organ - away you go!

If not Latin rhythms then some other FOCUSED effort in another genre. I previously suggested here a "Rhythms & Blues" album with 1/2 of it devoted to Rhythms and the other half devoted to Blues. Neal's Late Nite is something of a play on this where sides AM and PM are devoted to "morning" and "evening" themed music. Guiffira also produced Silk & Steel with ballads being on the Silk side and rockers on the Steel side. I have lots of other ideas but I'm not comfortable discussing them.

Ultimately, I think that whatever they decided to do should be something that the JOURNEY sound can enliven and in return enliven JOURNEY.

[Matthew]

and the other half devoted to Blues.

Please God no....

Neal's Late Nite is something of a play on this where sides AM and PM are devoted to "morning" and "evening" themed music.

Not a bad idea...and ideally it would build in pace as the album progressed...ending in a ridiculously over-the-top Journey epic.

Two key things need to happen on this next album, I reckon.

Jonathan Cain needs to show off what he can do. Compare his hotel lobby solo on the 2006 tour with his awesomely grandiose and complex solo on the ROR tour and it's obvious that the guy needs to stretch himself again.

And JSS needs to fire this band up with massive doses of testosterone...and if that risks scaring off those creepy women on BT who don't like rock music that much then so be it.

Journey shouldn't be afraid to indulge themselves as musicians. Cain and Schon could easily play for groups such as Rush and Yes - yet they hold themselves back in Journey.

If we ended up with a progressive metal album, then great. As long as the mood of the album is uplifting and Neal does his thing it'll still be Journeyesque.

Sure, they could try to second-guess the market and do a ballad with a middle of the road country singer or repeat the same old formula with diminishing returns. But I'd rather that Schon and Cain finally allow themselves some freedom from the restrictions of Journey - and that they allow JSS to be totally unrestrained as well. I'd hate to see the guy tone himself down to appease the Augeri fan base who expect a non-threatening male behind the Journey microphone.

I have lots of other ideas but I'm not comfortable discussing them.

That's unlike you, Fyre. Why so shy?

[fred_journeyman]

I don't see why the curveball couldn't be an exploration into Latin rhythms. They could even have a couple songs in Spanish as JSS is fluent. Bring in Gibby Ross or whomever to bolster the rhythm section and have JC jump on the organ - away you go!

If not Latin rhythms then some other FOCUSED effort in another genre. I previously suggested here a "Rhythms & Blues" album with 1/2 of it devoted to Rhythms and the other half devoted to Blues. Neal's Late Nite is something of a play on this where sides AM and PM are devoted to "morning" and "evening" themed music. Guiffira also produced Silk & Steel with ballads being on the Silk side and rockers on the Steel side. I have lots of other ideas but I'm not comfortable discussing them.

Ultimately, I think that whatever they decided to do should be something that the JOURNEY sound can enliven and in return enliven JOURNEY.

This is interesting. It beats the heck out of just popping a bunch of tunes on a CD, in spite of how good the tunes might be. Maybe a good way to introduce the new singer is to do a themed CD like you're referring to. Otherwise, it might be just another CD. I've always liked R & B. Not too crazy about an entire CD devoted to Latin, however I really enjoy Rolie's Roots CD quite a bit.

Maybe it's time for a huge shake up musically from Journey? If they go with a theme of some sort (and I don't mean just a title), then it could garner some notice by more than simply the hardcore fans.

[Saint John]

...I think the target market group for new stuff is a new audience in a new genre. Ultimately, a "curveball production" like an EP or full-blown LP could serve to help unite the polarized fan base because it would be coming from something of a neutral place....

Out of curiousity Fyre, do you have any ideas on what this "curveball production" would sound like?

I've been giving that a good deal of thought myself and I can't really come up with anything. Then again, I'm not the guy writing the music for it. For me, Frontiers was a huge curveball. It took me time to like some of the songs on it. TBF was another curveball.

I think you may be right that Journey's music has evolved with each new release; each one being their own curveball.

Well, if the guys DO decide to produce a new, full blown CD, then we can only hope that it will not only be a curveball that will catch us by surprise, but one that will still have that solid Journey sound to it. That's a tall order to fill.

I don't see why the curveball couldn't be an exploration into Latin rhythms. They could even have a couple songs in Spanish as JSS is fluent. Bring in Gibby Ross or whomever to bolster the rhythm section and have JC jump on the organ - away you go!

If not Latin rhythms then some other FOCUSED effort in another genre. I previously suggested here a "Rhythms & Blues" album with 1/2 of it devoted to Rhythms and the other half devoted to Blues. Neal's Late Nite is something of a play on this where sides AM and PM are devoted to "morning" and "evening" themed music. Guiffira also produced Silk & Steel with ballads being on the Silk side and rockers on the Steel side. I have lots of other ideas but I'm not comfortable discussing them.

Ultimately, I think that whatever they decided to do should be something that the JOURNEY sound can enliven and in return enliven JOURNEY.

Journey can take their musical direction pretty much anywhere and I'll give it a chance. HOWEVER, personally, I draw the line at language. That is, if I'm going to buy an album, it better be in fuckin' English. There's no way I'd buy a Journey album that was in Spanish, regardless of how good it might be. That's just me, though.