Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

[Red13JoePa]

Cooper is the MAN. Poison, Clones, No More Mr Nice Guy, Welcome To My Nightmare, School;s Out, on and on that guy's great.

[Just_Plain_Eric]

What a horrible night for a true Van Halen fan

E

[Jeremey]

I love me some Grandmaster Flash!!

These lyrics almost make me cry. Fucking brilliance.


"A child was born, with no state of mind
Blind to the ways of mankind
God is smiling on you but hes frowning too
Cause only God knows what you go through
You grow in the ghetto, living second rate
And your eyes will sing a song of deep hate
The places you play and where you stay
Looks like one great big alley way
Youll admire all the number book takers
Thugs, pimps, pushers and the big money makers
Driving big cars, spending twenties and tens
And you wanna grow up to be just like them
Smugglers, scrambles, burglars, gamblers
Pickpockets, peddlers and even pan-handlers
You say Im cool, Im no fool
But then you wind up dropping out of high school
Now youre unemployed, all null n void
Walking around like youre pretty boy floyd
Turned stickup kid, look what you done did
Got send up for a eight year bid
Now your man is took and youre a may tag
Spend the next two years as an undercover fag
Being used and abused, and served like hell
Till one day you was find hung dead in a cell
It was plain to see that your life was lost
You was cold and your body swung back and forth
But now your eyes sing the sad sad song
Of how you lived so fast and died so young"

- The Message

[Cate]

FUCK that Hall of Fame.

Alice Cooper isn't in. Kiss isn't in.

Why worry?

And neither should be. They BOTH suck.

Dean - let go of it! Any artist that have been around 30 years + does NOT suck. You may not like them because Neal and Steve were not part of their line-ups, but they do not suck.

he was just foolin

No I wasn't.

I am NOT letting go of anything, Andrew. You are making me feel like I am an obsessed Journey fan or some shit. So let me ask you Andrew and anyone else for that matter.

How in the Hell is Journey NOT in the Hall of Fame? You can't answer that without spinning, lying or both.

I thought that someone like you "who knows everything " would know the answer
to your question !!

[X factor]

FUCK that Hall of Fame.

Alice Cooper isn't in. Kiss isn't in.

Why worry?

And neither should be. They BOTH suck.

Dean - let go of it! Any artist that have been around 30 years + does NOT suck. You may not like them because Neal and Steve were not part of their line-ups, but they do not suck.

he was just foolin

I won't argue Alice with you (though I could- the guy is one of the godfather's of Rock and Roll. Just because someone doesn't sing like Steve Perry doesn't mean they don't rock and aren't valid! "I'm 18"? Schools out? I never Cry?- but wait...I wan't gonna argue for Alice)...
but say what you will KISS is the most glaring omission the R and R HOF has ever made. There isn't a band out there (Journey included) that doesn't owe SOME aspect of their live performance to what KISS started in the early 70's. The Live Rock and Roll show as we know it was basically invented by these guys. And everyone from Priest to Metallica to Pearl Jam to Garth Friggin Brooks has acknowledged it...so why can;t the friggin hall of shame? WHY? Because Jann WEINER and his cronies have never liked KISS, thus they'll play hell ever getting in. And why don't they like em? Cause they were WRONG about them...they WERNE'T no talent a flash in the pan...30 + year career, tons of platnum and gold albums, over 40 million records sold in the US alone, and a standard for live performance that, in their heyday, was unmatched! And you simply can't deny the songs of their early catalogue..DEUCE? STRUTTER? BLACK FREAKIN DIAMOND???? "they suck..." Gimmie a break!

...end of tirade...

btw- I also agree the JOURNEY is a huge omission...and one I hope the see those pricks at the hall of shit rectify...

And btw- why all the hate for VR? They may have stunk up the joint last night, but shit, they're about the closest thing to a real rock band we got left...


No I wasn't.

I am NOT letting go of anything, Andrew. You are making me feel like I am an obsessed Journey fan or some shit. So let me ask you Andrew and anyone else for that matter.

How in the Hell is Journey NOT in the Hall of Fame? You can't answer that without spinning, lying or both.

[whocares]

The Van Halen Brothers make a mockery of Rock & Roll, and people are surprised?

Alex is the biggest coke head in the business, and Eddie is a nutjob. Where's the surprise that they wouldn't show up for their own induction? DLR? Forget about it, he lives in his own little DLR world. If it's not about Dave, Dave's not about it.

Fuck the RRHOF. The minute they even entertained jazz or hip hop/rap, they ceased being about Rock & Roll.

[7 Wishes]

Don't start with the Dave-bashing. He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period. He deserved to pick his own damn song and guitarist at his own induction ceremony. DD is the polar opposite of Edward and Alexander. Read his book, and then tell me he's a one-dimensional egomaniac. You can't. The guy loves life, lives it with a passion, travels the world, and is actually quite brilliant to boot.

[Jeremey]

I won't argue that the RRHOF is an anachronism, but some of the arguments I see about what bands should and shouldn't get in make me think a lot of people don't see the original purpose of the hall, which I believe was to honor pioneers in the history of rock and roll. By definition, the induction process should either stop at some point, or the purpose of the HOF has to evolve, because you're going to run out of people who pioneered!!

The argument against some rap, jazz, or r&b artists that influenced the direction of rock is kind of silly. For example. How "rock and roll" by Journey/Van Halen/Rush or even Springsteen standards is the following list of people:

Chuck Berry (1926 - )
James Brown (1933 - 2006)
Ray Charles (1930 - 2004)
Sam Cooke (1931 - 1964)
Fats Domino (1928 - )
Little Richard (1932 - )
The Coasters (formed 1955)
Bo Diddley (1928 - )
Aretha Franklin (1942 - )
Marvin Gaye (1939 - 1984)
B. B. King (1925 - )
Smokey Robinson (1940 - )
Big Joe Turner (1911 - 1985)
Muddy Waters (1915 - 1983)
Jackie Wilson (1934 - 1984)

None of those guys would be considered "Rock and roll," but that's the vast majority of the first class of inductees in 1986.

[whocares]

you didn't list any hip/hop or rap acts there, nor jazz.

I fully agree that R & B influenced rock & Roll, that's why I didn't say anything about it above. Hell, I'd even say that early folk music was a HUGE influence, especially on Springsteen. Rap didn't influence early rock & roll. Maybe the other way around, the way rap samples rock music all the time. Name some rap groups and jazz musicians and I'm not talking about Miles Davis, that influenced Rock & Roll back in the day, and maybe I'll agree it's a silly arguement. No Run DMC doesn't count either. I'm talking about back in the day, BEFORE Rap and Rock got mixed all up.

Dave bashing? no, it wasn't bashing, it was truth. He is a HUGE egomaniac. As far as the greatest frontman ever? I think you're in the wrong forum to be saying that, many in this one would disagree. Showiest? yes. Greatest? no, not by a longshot. Hell, I've travelled the world, big frickin' deal if Dave has too.

[RedWingFan]

He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, that title belongs to Freddie Mercury. You need to have the vocals to go with the tights

[NealIsGod]

He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, that title belongs to Freddie Mercury. You need to have the vocals to go with the tights

My favorite that I have seen live is Steve Whiteman of Kix.

[JeremyP]

He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, that title belongs to Freddie Mercury. You need to have the vocals to go with the tights

Seconded.

[Jeremey]

you didn't list any hip/hop or rap acts there, nor jazz.

I fully agree that R & B influenced rock & Roll, that's why I didn't say anything about it above. Hell, I'd even say that early folk music was a HUGE influence, especially on Springsteen. Rap didn't influence early rock & roll. Maybe the other way around, the way rap samples rock music all the time. Name some rap groups and jazz musicians and I'm not talking about Miles Davis, that influenced Rock & Roll back in the day, and maybe I'll agree it's a silly arguement. No Run DMC doesn't count either. I'm talking about back in the day, BEFORE Rap and Rock got mixed all up.

Uh...Well, the only jazz musician in the HOF is Miles Davis, and the only rap group is Grandmaster Flash, so you just kind of tied my hands there, seeing as how I can't list the only 2 inductees as who may have influenced the direction of rock and roll....But let's throw Bob Marley up there. Anyone want to deny his influence on rock and roll? Or Al Green, Parliment, or Curtis Mayfield...Ask JSS if those guys may have had any influence on rock and roll...

I should make it clear that I'm not going to defend the HOF and the choices they've made, because I think it's become a bogus art house wankfest....But to say that the inductees have to fit one particular definition of rock, or fit into a tight, defined catagory just isn't very insightful. Grandmaster Flash influenced tons of rock bands. Three off the top of my head are Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against The Machine, and Anthrax.

[lights1961]

Ronnettes were the CLASS act of the nite... Ronnie ROCKS still!! BE MY LITTLE BABY!! why did the jam session NOT do that song at the end... way beyond me.
The van halen brothers and DLR will regret there decision NOT to make it!!
IDIOTS of rock and roll. Only reason Patti Smith was inducted is because she was a shocking poet who used words for her artistry... such as the N word and others... CRAPOLA music...and wtf she looked awful! Sammy ROCKED and looked happy as hell on stage. Grandmaster Flash I know why they were there, pioneered a new phenom called rap and hip hop which is now the new pop.




Rick

[Deb]

Ronnettes were the CLASS act of the nite... Ronnie ROCKS still!! BE MY LITTLE BABY!! why did the jam session NOT do that song at the end... way beyond me.



Rick

She's the one in Eddie Money's song Take Me Home Tonight isn't she? Great voice........love this song, one of my favorites from the 80s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbhXmSBlS_U

Poor Eddie, sure doesn't have JSS's moves.

[chad]

He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, that title belongs to Freddie Mercury. You need to have the vocals to go with the tights

My favorite that I have seen live is Steve Whiteman of Kix.

Totally agree....there was no other front man like Freddie.

[whocares]

you didn't list any hip/hop or rap acts there, nor jazz.

I fully agree that R & B influenced rock & Roll, that's why I didn't say anything about it above. Hell, I'd even say that early folk music was a HUGE influence, especially on Springsteen. Rap didn't influence early rock & roll. Maybe the other way around, the way rap samples rock music all the time. Name some rap groups and jazz musicians and I'm not talking about Miles Davis, that influenced Rock & Roll back in the day, and maybe I'll agree it's a silly arguement. No Run DMC doesn't count either. I'm talking about back in the day, BEFORE Rap and Rock got mixed all up.

Uh...Well, the only jazz musician in the HOF is Miles Davis, and the only rap group is Grandmaster Flash, so you just kind of tied my hands there, seeing as how I can't list the only 2 inductees as who may have influenced the direction of rock and roll....But let's throw Bob Marley up there. Anyone want to deny his influence on rock and roll? Or Al Green, Parliment, or Curtis Mayfield...Ask JSS if those guys may have had any influence on rock and roll...

I should make it clear that I'm not going to defend the HOF and the choices they've made, because I think it's become a bogus art house wankfest....But to say that the inductees have to fit one particular definition of rock, or fit into a tight, defined catagory just isn't very insightful. Grandmaster Flash influenced tons of rock bands. Three off the top of my head are Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against The Machine, and Anthrax.

Jeremey, I'm not trying to bust your balls here, but influencing a few bands is not influencing the Rock & Roll genre.

[lights1961]

Ronnettes were the CLASS act of the nite... Ronnie ROCKS still!! BE MY LITTLE BABY!! why did the jam session NOT do that song at the end... way beyond me.



Rick

She's the one in Eddie Money's song Take Me Home Tonight isn't she? Great voice........love this song, one of my favorites from the 80s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbhXmSBlS_U

Poor Eddie, sure doesn't have JSS's moves.

yes it is...she thanked Eddie too!

[Jeremey]

you didn't list any hip/hop or rap acts there, nor jazz.

I fully agree that R & B influenced rock & Roll, that's why I didn't say anything about it above. Hell, I'd even say that early folk music was a HUGE influence, especially on Springsteen. Rap didn't influence early rock & roll. Maybe the other way around, the way rap samples rock music all the time. Name some rap groups and jazz musicians and I'm not talking about Miles Davis, that influenced Rock & Roll back in the day, and maybe I'll agree it's a silly arguement. No Run DMC doesn't count either. I'm talking about back in the day, BEFORE Rap and Rock got mixed all up.

Uh...Well, the only jazz musician in the HOF is Miles Davis, and the only rap group is Grandmaster Flash, so you just kind of tied my hands there, seeing as how I can't list the only 2 inductees as who may have influenced the direction of rock and roll....But let's throw Bob Marley up there. Anyone want to deny his influence on rock and roll? Or Al Green, Parliment, or Curtis Mayfield...Ask JSS if those guys may have had any influence on rock and roll...

I should make it clear that I'm not going to defend the HOF and the choices they've made, because I think it's become a bogus art house wankfest....But to say that the inductees have to fit one particular definition of rock, or fit into a tight, defined catagory just isn't very insightful. Grandmaster Flash influenced tons of rock bands. Three off the top of my head are Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against The Machine, and Anthrax.

Jeremey, I'm not trying to bust your balls here, but influencing a few bands is not influencing the Rock & Roll genre.

I know that. My point is that they influenced rock and roll, yes, but they also influenced an entire offshoot of rock and roll into a sound that now dominates modern music...So my original post was - You either close the doors after a certain amount of time, or the definition of what constitutes "rock and roll" needs to evolve with the time. I think you'll agree with me on that point.

[7 Wishes]

The ROR Hall of Shame is unique from other "HOF's" in that election isn't predicated on sales or popularity, but rather, as Jeremey stated, pioneering new sounds. Perhaps we should all get together and create a Melodic Rock Hall of Fame that would consider talent and brilliance, whether or not that music was constructed around already established genres. Just wait until 8-10 years from now when lousy bands such as Pearl Jam, Nirvana, and Soundgarten are unanimously elected along with pop divas such as Mariah Carey. Journey and Boston will always be labeled "corporate rock" by elitist critics who were playing Dungeons and Dragons and listening to REM while the rest of us were out partying, dating, and having a grand old time. Unfortunately, those elitists control the system. If pioneering is the most important consideration, the ROR Hall of Shame has NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER at having not already elected Def Leppard, who created a whole new genre. However, I doubt that will ever happen, because the elitist 40-year-old virgins who control the mass media and the Hall of Shame elections resent everything Def Leppard represented, because they weren't a part of it.

[7 Wishes]

In many cases, disapproval of the 2007 list stems from nitpicking, sour grapes and poor sportsmanship. Or high standards, says music writer Brett Milano, author of The Sound of Our Town: A History of Boston Rock and Roll, due in September.

"Eddie Van Halen taught a million people to overplay, and David Lee Roth ushered in the era of the comedian as rock 'n' roll front man," he says. "With Van Halen, we're to the point of bands getting in pretty much only because they sold a lot of records. "Why is commercial stadium rock getting the nod when entire genres get passed over, particularly progressive bands.


You see? The talentless progressive bands such as REM and the god-awful hacks like Patt Smith get the approval of idiots like these...I mean, this is just wrong. There is no room for argument, and it makes me so angry and frustrated that I am not going to go off on one of my diatribes here. This elitist pig's words speak for themselves. This guy IS the enemy of melodic rock.

[whocares]

By your "definition" 7, Journey should be in based on the idea that it's widely considered that they "created" the power ballad. Not just by fans or critics, but by many other musicians that actually count. So that way of thinking actually holds no water. The only way to know for sure what's going on, is to have someone that actually is a member of the RRHOF that has some say over who goes in, to explain it, and that's not gonna happen.

Hell, there's already the sham of the Hollywood walk of fame. Anyone with a few fans and enough money get's a star there. It's got nothing to do with their actual sales or long term popularity either. Witness Britney Spears getting a star in the same year Journey did. Journey had SONGS older than her, but as usual, it took fans and a bit of cash to get it to finally happen.

[7 Wishes]

Whocares, what are you talking about? First of all, the power ballad is a style, not a genre. Secondly, the point Jeremey and I are making about the ROR Hall of Shame guidelines is valid, plausible, and not subject to debate - it's the official party line. Melodic rock was pioneered by the Beatles, and to an extent the Eagles, and even Boston. That is not to say Journey should not belong in the Hall of Shame - I absolutely contend they should. The blues...that is a genre.

[conversationpc]

You see? The talentless progressive bands such as REM and the god-awful hacks like Patt Smith get the approval of idiots like these...I mean, this is just wrong.

REM is not a progressive rock band. They are alternative. Progressive would refer to bands like Yes, King Crimson, Rush, Kansas, Genesis, etc.

[conversationpc]

He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, that title belongs to Freddie Mercury. You need to have the vocals to go with the tights

Seconded.

Thirded...Not a word but hey, why not?

[Rockindeano]

(David Lee Crotch)He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, are you fucking high?

Ever heard of Perry?
Springsteen?
Freddie?
Jaegger?

[Rockindeano]

He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, that title belongs to Freddie Mercury. You need to have the vocals to go with the tights

And you are wrong too, just not as wrong as 7.

[7 Wishes]

Deano, my man, these are just opinions. Diamond Dave had a good voice, but I saw them 7 times in the 80's, and I've seen EVERYONE, Queen included (I grew up in Europe). I love Queen's and Journey's music just as much as VH's, but in the end, Dave gets the nod in my book by the smallest of margins. You just had to see him to believe it.

[RedWingFan]

He is the greatest frontman in the history of rock, period.

Dude, that title belongs to Freddie Mercury. You need to have the vocals to go with the tights

And you are wrong too, just not as wrong as 7.

Deano I know what you're getting at. Listen if I want to appreciate the best vocals ever recorded. I'll run "Sweet in Simple" through my Bose QC2's. But as a frontman, nobody beats Freddie. Check out the "live at wembley" dvd and watch Mercury have that sea of people eating out of his hands.

[whocares]

you said sounds, not genres. get over yourself.