Jonathan Cain's Transformation

[sindee67]

Jon would like to be noted for his piano and composing virtuosity, but it just isn't going to happen.

He believes otherwise. His antics during "Faithfully" on the 2001 dvd are insane.
You can tell just how much he is in love with himself over that one song.

Probably why he recorded it twice more.

(psssst... hey, you there... FRIG! Perry nailed that shit down like a motherfucker the first time, dude...you can leave it be, we all know you wrote it and we appreciate it, so now just drop it already)

YEAH! Why try and mess with perfection..DUH! Jon; and you call us Southerners stupid!

[Matthew]

Amadeus slogs his guts out for this band for over a quarter of a century and now that he's fired a guy who sang the old hits for eight months his entire career is getting trashed....

[piecesofeight]

For ME, it's not that he was 'fired', it's how it was done..and in the process of these sort of things happening, we learn more and more about these sort of people we have idolized. As I get older, it's not just about the music anymore, it's about values too.
I never felt Jeff would be in Journey forever anyway and I was/am always looking forward to what he would be/will do next anyway.
Especially now, I am not that bummed that he's not in Journey anymore, just bummed how it all went down. Something big ia a comin' for Jeff.

[whocares]

Friga is like Tom Hulce in the MOVIE Amadeus. That's why he's getting trashed. Well, that and his obvious disdain for other people, than himself.

[Matthew]

For ME, it's not that he was 'fired', it's how it was done..and in the process of these sort of things happening, we learn more and more about these sort of people we have idolized. As I get older, it's not just about the music anymore, it's about values too.

Most of us are pushing forty now - or older - so is it really such a shock to learn that rock stars have...flawed characters? Has everyone led a really sheltered life around here?

[Matthew]

Friga is like Tom Hulce in the MOVIE Amadeus. That's why he's getting trashed. Well, that and his obvious disdain for other people, than himself.

Well, it can't be denied that Jonathan Cain isn't the kind of guy you'd want to be your boss or your priest or the godfather to your child...but surely he's helped to gives all of us Journey fans a hell of a lot of great songs and live shows over the last three decades? And that's all we can reasonably ask of the guy....

[whocares]

not all Matthew. You know I'm not jocking you or your views for this band that's still precious to you. That's your right and I respect that.

However. It put a bad taste in my mouth, and actually made me hate my once favorite band, as well as my very most favorite song in the world. Just as people have the right to still hold on to the dirty dozen, many of us who are fed up with the arrogance of the BOYS, have a right to state that we are fed up with them, and their fucked up ways of doing business, and shitting on so called friends that saved their asses and the fans that made them rich.

[AR]

Jonathan Cain is a songwriter and keyboard player.

[piecesofeight]

For ME, it's not that he was 'fired', it's how it was done..and in the process of these sort of things happening, we learn more and more about these sort of people we have idolized. As I get older, it's not just about the music anymore, it's about values too.

Most of us are pushing forty now - or older - so is it really such a shock to learn that rock stars have...flawed characters? Has everyone led a really sheltered life around here?

Not at all what I said. You missed my point. First off, what I meant was that whenever these things happen, we learn more about what these people are like because people are more willing to open up and tell/share some of their bad experiences they had with people they thought would be descent.
No, it's not a shock just right now to learn rock stars have flaws. Been doing it for years. All I said was, as we get older, I didn't say just right now.
The main point is that you said people are trashing him because he fired a guy who was only in the band for eight months. Is that really what you have gotten out of reading through the post as to why people are ticked?
You really think people are ticked because they fired a guy who was only with them for eight months? I guess I have really been misunderstanding what I have been reading.
I never said I was shocked that rock stars are flawed, I just said that people tell more shit stories about rock stars when things like this come out.
I am pretty well done with my opinions on this mess. I just had to reply when you said that people were on him for firing the guy. If that's how you feel, I respect that, just not what I have been gathering.

[Matthew]

not all Matthew. You know I'm not jocking you or your views for this band that's still precious to you. That's your right and I respect that.

However. It put a bad taste in my mouth, and actually made me hate my once favorite band, as well as my very most favorite song in the world. Just as people have the right to still hold on to the dirty dozen, many of us who are fed up with the arrogance of the BOYS, have a right to state that we are fed up with them, and their fucked up ways of doing business, and shitting on so called friends that saved their asses and the fans that made them rich.

WC - please don't misunderstand me. You're talking to someone who used to - and probably still does - hold a grudge against Cain for firing Perry and hiring Augeri. And also - maybe that grudge prevented me from enjoying Arrival and Generations more than I did. Who knows?

It's just that as I get older I have very low expectations of people I know, let alone those I don't. That doesn't excuse the way they treated JSS but equally a) I'm not shocked by the band's behaviouer and b) what the band do in 2007 is utterly irrelevant to my enjoyment of Journey in the 70s and 80s.

I guess all I'm saying is that it's easy to lose perspective. JSS - for all his gifts - was only briefly a member of this group and he didn't contribute to its success or the timleless back catalogue.

Whereas Jonathan Cain has made a huge contribution - and whether or not he's a twat in real life, the guy has played an important part of my life for over two decades. The events of the last week don't - and shouldn't - negate that.

[Matthew]

I just had to reply when you said that people were on him for firing the guy. .

Well, hardly anyone was trashing him before that. In fact, I'd say that most people here have defended Cain and Schon for years against the Loons who were upset about the events of '98 and the slow destruction of the band that was happening long before anyone had heard of JSS.

Now - suddenly - Cain is being demonized for pursuing the same strategy he was once supported for.

And he's being criticized for not calling JSS to fire him? Why was it Cain's call to make? Surely Schon was the guy who needed to act like a man and talk to JSS face to face? JSS was his friend...whereas Cain barely knew the guy.

[whocares]

Much like you Matthew, I try to not have any expectations of people. Maybe especially people I've known for years. People will let you down, whether you know them or not. It's much the same reason I dont' accept when someone "promises" me anything, nor do I ever make promises. My word is good enough, i dont' need to promise anyone anything, they know if I say it, I'll do my best to do what I've said. No expectations involved. Or should be involved. I've never actively stuck up for any individual in Journey with exception of Perry, when ridiculed for being a fan of their's. Simply stating that it's the music I like as an individual. That said, NOW, I'm sticking up for what has been done to Jeff, NO MATTER HOW LONG HE WAS IN THE BAND. He saved their asses and it's been documented in Andy's interviews with the BOYS, last year. And this was the thanks he got from them.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about Jon or Neal, no matter how good people think they are, personally or talent wise. I've got NO respect for either of them, and that's been for a while, even before Jeff was in the band, or out of the band for that matter. Hell, I don't have respect for many celebrities, so they aren't special enough to be the only one's I don't respect. Jeff however has gained my respect, and that's hard to do. he also got fucked over by people who claimed were his friends, but who didn't go to bat for him, or else didn't care to move forward as the band's name implies.

[piecesofeight]

My wife made a good point as she has met many people in the music industry that she has followed for years. While we realize that they aren't perfect, they are human, they have bad days, they owe us nothing, they have faults, they screw up, etc...we don't expect them to make an effort to be a complete ass.
Some of the stories we have read on here about some of the comments, looks remarks, etc...that some of the people got from from Neil and Cain when they met them are downright childish.
In reading some of the stories here, they actually made an effort to be an ass. Having faults is one thing, being a jerk in public and making someone feel like a jerk in front of everyone is bullshit.

[Matthew]

Much like you Matthew, I try to not have any expectations of people. Maybe especially people I've known for years. People will let you down, whether you know them or not. It's much the same reason I dont' accept when someone "promises" me anything, nor do I ever make promises. My word is good enough, i dont' need to promise anyone anything, they know if I say it, I'll do my best to do what I've said. No expectations involved. Or should be involved. I've never actively stuck up for any individual in Journey with exception of Perry, when ridiculed for being a fan of their's. Simply stating that it's the music I like as an individual. That said, NOW, I'm sticking up for what has been done to Jeff, NO MATTER HOW LONG HE WAS IN THE BAND. He saved their asses and it's been documented in Andy's interviews with the BOYS, last year. And this was the thanks he got from them.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about Jon or Neal, no matter how good people think they are, personally or talent wise. I've got NO respect for either of them, and that's been for a while, even before Jeff was in the band, or out of the band for that matter. Hell, I don't have respect for many celebrities, so they aren't special enough to be the only one's I don't respect. Jeff however has gained my respect, and that's hard to do. he also got fucked over by people who claimed were his friends, but who didn't go to bat for him, or else didn't care to move forward as the band's name implies.

Whocares - JSS won my respect too and I'm all for sticking up for him. Also - Cain has definitely gone down in my estimation over the years because I strongly disagree with the way the band has been run over the last decade.

All I'm saying is that the guy will always deserve some respect for his extraordinary contribution to the band since 1981 and it seems - at the moment - he is getting zero respect. Just adding a bit of balance to the hate-fest in this thread.

Essentially though I agree with you, WC.

[Matthew]

In reading some of the stories here, they actually made an effort to be an ass. Having faults is one thing, being a jerk in public and making someone feel like a jerk in front of everyone is bullshit.

I agree. But do the stories here diminish the pleasure I get from listening to - say - Escape? No. Not one bit.

[whocares]

Whocares - JSS won my respect too and I'm all for sticking up for him. Also - Cain has definitely gone down in my estimation over the years because I strongly disagree with the way the band has been run over the last decade.

All I'm saying is that the guy will always deserve some respect for his extraordinary contribution to the band since 1981 and it seems - at the moment - he is getting zero respect. Just adding a bit of balance to the hate-fest in this thread.

Essentially though I agree with you, WC.

with exception of the middle part, you coulda just saved me a lot of thinking the A.M. and said, I agree with you WC.

[Rick]

In reading some of the stories here, they actually made an effort to be an ass. Having faults is one thing, being a jerk in public and making someone feel like a jerk in front of everyone is bullshit.

I agree. But do the stories here diminish the pleasure I get from listening to - say - Escape? No. Not one bit.

Best album and best song. Gotta agree there.

[Matthew]

Whocares - JSS won my respect too and I'm all for sticking up for him. Also - Cain has definitely gone down in my estimation over the years because I strongly disagree with the way the band has been run over the last decade.

All I'm saying is that the guy will always deserve some respect for his extraordinary contribution to the band since 1981 and it seems - at the moment - he is getting zero respect. Just adding a bit of balance to the hate-fest in this thread.

Essentially though I agree with you, WC.

with exception of the middle part, you coulda just saved me a lot of thinking the A.M. and said, I agree with you WC.

I'll try not to be so long-winded in future...

[JrnyBratt]

..we get in line to meet them, we get up there for our ILAA group photo, I turn around, Deen makes note of the rather large tattoo of Steve Perry on my back, Neal responds with "OMG, that is Perry"...Friga sniggers, rolls his eyes at me, and shakes his head...then looks at me as if I'm a low life piece of shit. My expectations....shattered. I wouldn't piss on Friga if he was on fire.

Tattoos, shrines, prayer circles…no, no, no, no.
These are all emblematic of the precise brand of certifiable nutbag fanaticism that made Neal and Cain swear off Journey fandom forever.
Gotta side with Cain on this one.
Would it have made you feel better if he waited to break into a hyena-like fit of uncontrollable laughter after your left, as I’m sure Neal did?

Still, I guess it could be worse, at least you didn’t saunter in with a homemade Butterfly prison tattoo etched with a broken penknife.

"You see Neal and Jonathan, the lyrics were especially inspiring as I served time for holding up various asian-run downton LA liquor stores and appeal after appeal was overturned. Frequently as I was being butt-raped in the shower I would find myself reciting these lyrics for strength: 'Within a cage..Tried to escape..But no one ever listened...counting every second, minutes turn to hours...The wait's eternal."

The word *fan* is derived from the word "fanatic".....But it's okay if we wear swag, and T's, and the temporary tatoo's they have on their site, line our christmas trees with Journey ornaments, or burn Journey candles in our house...as long as it's lining their pockets ? Then being a *fan* is okay ?? Only the true *fanatics* would pay 550 dollars for 2 tickets for one of their concerts. If they have sworn off "fandom" then why do they continue to do the ILAA stuff ?? and sell Journey products on their site than only *fans* would buy ??

And honestly, yes, he could have saved the snigger until after i walked away...then maybe, this year, I'd put the journey ornaments back on my christmas tree.

[Saint John]

Amadeus slogs his guts out for this band for over a quarter of a century and now that he's fired a guy who sang the old hits for eight months his entire career is getting trashed....

Wrong, fuckface. He fired Perry. He hasn't played ANYTHING good since Frontiers (a bit on ROR). He was part of Tapegate. He didn't have the decency or backbone to shake Jeff's hand, thank him and tell him they were going in a different direction. He's been a sneaky two-faced fuck for the better part of 10 years. Maybe longer. THAT is why he's being trashed.

[Matthew]

Amadeus slogs his guts out for this band for over a quarter of a century and now that he's fired a guy who sang the old hits for eight months his entire career is getting trashed....

Wrong, fuckface. He fired Perry. He hasn't played ANYTHING good since Frontiers (a bit on ROR). He was part of Tapegate. He didn't have the decency or backbone to shake Jeff's hand, thank him and tell him they were going in a different direction. He's been a sneaky two-faced fuck for the better part of 10 years. Maybe longer. THAT is why he's being trashed.

Fuckface eh? Actually, I agree with everything you're saying Saint John - but I love what he did for this band between 1981-1996 and no amount of JSS arse-kissing on this board can ever change that.

JSS has moved on and in a gracious way too. Maybe you should too?

[Matthew]

He didn't have the decency or backbone to shake Jeff's hand, thank him and tell him they were going in a different direction.

Just wanted to add that it was Schon who ought to have handled this given that he was the one with the 'special relationship' this time.

[conversationpc]

He didn't have the decency or backbone to shake Jeff's hand, thank him and tell him they were going in a different direction.

Just wanted to add that it was Schon who ought to have handled this given that he was the one with the 'special relationship' this time.

Correct.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The word *fan* is derived from the word "fanatic".....But it's okay if we wear swag, and T's, and the temporary tatoo's they have on their site, line our christmas trees with Journey ornaments, or burn Journey candles in our house...as long as it's lining their pockets ? Then being a *fan* is okay ??

No, it’s not.
You mean to tell me there are people that actually shell out cash for that chintzy Chinese-made junk?
Next you’ll be telling me you took out a second mortgage on your home to buy the whole bulk of those chocolate dipped Escape-records.
Actually, that particular product gives me hope Journey is becoming responsive to their fans again.
Clearly they viewed the average waistband of their fans and gave them what they wanted.

Only the true *fanatics* would pay 550 dollars for 2 tickets for one of their concerts. If they have sworn off "fandom" then why do they continue to do the ILAA stuff ?? and sell Journey products on their site than only *fans* would buy ??

Jonathan & Neal may have some sort of final say on what paraphernalia gets sold, but I doubt they’re really all that involved in Swag. I don’t know.
I do know one thing; Jon Cain looked positively bitchin in that Journey-themed Hawain Shirt complete with old Grampa hat.