JC (Friga) Saint or Sinner - take no prisoners?

[ArnelRox]

[Matthew]

Bullshit Matty. Stop trying to get out of these arguments by pulling out that card. U are twisting the words of both these men on both forums & trying to come up w/some reason why anyone could possibly hate ur hero. Well guess what, those are not the reasons.

Oh no! Susie gets back in the ring!

Well, forgive me for looking for deeper psychological reasons for the total meltdowns I've witnessed recently about this. We are talking about two grown men having a nervous breakdown because a keyboard player for an 80s soft rock band might not be a nice chap after all. I mean...come on! Get a grip!

I FUCKING HATE Friga. What's my "grubby little grudge"?

I have no idea what your fucking problem is either! Except that you're a total fruitcake....

Fyre's point was that OTHER people he has corresponded w/DID see his letters & DID respond. Friga didn't. Doesn't matter whether he saw it or not. The point is, he should have seen it & responded. Quit twisting other people's words.

Does Fyre categorically know that that letter arrived safely into the hands of Jonathan Cain? Because if he doesn't he ought to be open-minded about various other possibilities and not hang on for dear life to the one scenario which makes him feel victimized.

That's b/c ur brain is entirely focused on Friga. If he's not there, u tune out some.

ST was BETTER than ROR by a long shot. It was as good as Frontiers.

I'd say that most people on this forum prefer the Journey albums. It isn't an uncommon view by any means.

Put up the sofa shot or I'm coming to get u

I simply will not have Augeri in any avatar of mine - so if someone wants to post a cropped photo of Cain looking all "gay ass" on the sofa then I'll happily replace the legendary Whitesnake album with that for a laugh.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Come on guys...This thread can go AT LEAST 25 pages.

EASILY!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

And HERE we finally get to the truth. Just like Strangegrey on the other forum you have an agenda that comes from being belittled or ignored at some point along the line. This has NOTHING to do with an objective assessment of the band's affairs and everything to do with trying to settle some grubby little grudge.

Bullshit Matty. Stop trying to get out of these arguments by pulling out that card. U are twisting the words of both these men on both forums & trying to come up w/some reason why anyone could possibly hate ur hero. Well guess what, those are not the reasons.

I FUCKING HATE Friga. What's my "grubby little grudge"?

Who knows whether the guy even saw the damn letter?

Fyre's point was that OTHER people he has corresponded w/DID see his letters & DID respond. Friga didn't. Doesn't matter whether he saw it or not. The point is, he should have seen it & responded. Quit twisting other people's words.

Really? I personally think it isn't nearly as good as Escape, Frontiers or ROR.

That's b/c ur brain is entirely focused on Friga. If he's not there, u tune out some.

ST was BETTER than ROR by a long shot. It was as good as Frontiers.

Listen to the classic albums from the 80s again and tell me I'm wrong.

There were 3 fantastic albums from Journey BEFORE Friga got there. Listen to them & tell I'm wrong. Oh wait, are u even a fan of the band?

Well, I recently had a most righteous shot of Cain from '86 as my avatar. Does that count?

Put up the sofa shot or I'm coming to get u

WOW! Yes - what she said!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

And HERE we finally get to the truth. Just like Strangegrey on the other forum you have an agenda that comes from being belittled or ignored at some point along the line. This has NOTHING to do with an objective assessment of the band's affairs and everything to do with trying to settle some grubby little grudge.

When I wrote that I suspected that somebody would make this reply. In fact, I pertty much KNEW somebody would. But I did NOT expect it to come from you!

Sinking pretty low there, Matthew!

Who knows whether the guy even saw the damn letter?

First of all it wasn't ONE. It was a few. They were sent directly to his personal e-mail account. I never received any "undeliverable" mails so I'm assuming they were received. Also, I had contacted one of his webmasters to confirm the address.

Consider this as well. The moderators at BT were always claiming that - be assured - the band DOES read BT and so do their family members. At the time of my writing to JC I was quite the unpopular poster at BT. Therefore, JC had many opportunities to "know" who I was. I was the ONLY nitwit promoting a Latin rhythm JOURNEY album. My website is also in the JOURNEY webring. I can't imagine with al of the exposure and abuse I was taking at BT that JC had no idea who/what I was about. Also, my nic "FYRE" is part of the e-mail address I used to write JC: FyreWyngz@aol.com. I made sure to use very clear mail subjects in order to alert him that it wasn't spam.

There you have it. Sure. I suppose that maybe the mail was "lost" in cyberspace but it isn't very probable. I'm fairly sure that he just blew me off.

I don’t hear anything missing on Street Talk.

[quote="Matthew]Really? I personally think it isn't nearly as good as Escape, Frontiers or ROR. It's still a great record though...[/quote]

Right. It's great on its own merits. You were saying that it "lacked" a certain element - something that JC brings. I disagree. I'mGLAD he wasn't on that album! Those songs didn't need him - there's nothing he could've brought to them to make them any better.

[quote="Matthew]I seem to remember that you were a staunch defender of the Augeri line-up, Fyre.[/quote]

I don't know about staunch but I was behind them despite the fact that I found that where they were going was entirely uninspiring.

[quote="Matthew]Well, I recently had a most righteous shot of Cain from '86 as my avatar. Does that count?[/quote]

You've got to move forward and get into this century!

[Matthew]

When I wrote that I suspected that somebody would make this reply. In fact, I pertty much KNEW somebody would. But I did NOT expect it to come from you!

Sinking pretty low there, Matthew!

Come off it, Fyre. It's not like I exposed some secret shame. You brought up a personal and specific resentment towards Jonathan Cain - and I suggested that this had coloured your view of the guy's entire career. What's so "low" about that?

First of all it wasn't ONE. It was a few. They were sent directly to his personal e-mail account. I never received any "undeliverable" mails so I'm assuming they were received. Also, I had contacted one of his webmasters to confirm the address.

Was this really his personal e-mail? Or was it a specially created fan account run by some poorly paid assistant or intern at Cain's office? After all - he is a senior member of one of the most successful American rock bands of all-time - so the guy is probably deluged with all kinds of crap.

Fyre - I'm not trying to rule out the possibility that Cain saw your name come up on the e-mail and thought, "Christ the last thing I need today is to listen to that guy bang on about Latin rhythms again". Yes, he might well have pressed 'delete'. But you don't KNOW this do you?

Consider this as well. The moderators at BT were always claiming that - be assured - the band DOES read BT and so do their family members.

Consider this Fyre. If Cain HAD returned your e-mail would be be on this forum trashing his contributions to Journey and calling him a "pyschopath"?

Right. It's great on its own merits. You were saying that it "lacked" a certain element - something that JC brings. I disagree. I'mGLAD he wasn't on that album! Those songs didn't need him - there's nothing he could've brought to them to make them any better.

Am I the only person here who thinks there was something special about the Perry,Schon, Cain trio? Surely not....

I don't know about staunch but I was behind them despite the fact that I found that where they were going was entirely uninspiring.

And after you've flounced around in protest you'll adapt and support the next guy too. You were hardly leader of the welcome party for JSS last year were you? Yet now look at you. All your hopes and dreams are invested in the guy and you think that that firing him is a crime worthy of a maximum security jail sentence.....

You've got to move forward and get into this century!

I keep trying Fyre! But the 80s call me back....

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Come off it, Fyre. It's not like I exposed some secret shame. You brought up a personal and specific resentment towards Jonathan Cain - and I suggested that this had coloured your view of the guy's entire career. What's so "low" about that?

Because you've reduced a personal experience into something that it's not. Notice I said "experience" and NOT resentment. I don't resent JC for not responding. I simply posted my personal experience as support for the sociopath charges.

To turn that experience into a resentment couldn't be any further from the truth. It borders on denial. And I don't mean the river in Egypt.

Was this really his personal e-mail? Or was it a specially created fan account run by some poorly pais assistant or intern at Cain's office? After all - he is a senior member of one of the most successful American rock bands of all-time - so the guy is probably deluged with all kinds of crap.

It was his "personal" mail as his website claimed. He may be deluged with all kinds of crap however my mail should've been obvious to a mental giant as himself as being FROM A FAN.

Fyre - I'm not trying to rule out the possibility that Cain saw your name come up on the e-mail and thought, "Christ the last thing I need today is to listen to that guy bang on about Latin rythmns again". Yes, he might well have pressed 'delete'. But you don't KNOW this do you?

All I know is that he never responded to the few mails I sent him. He could've displayed some grace and responded with a form letter like the one I posted here. He apparently never troubled himself with my "crap". Maybe he feels above it all.

I've written to The White House when Clinton was in office (which I'm sure receives LOTS more crap than JC) and they responded with a form letter signed by Clinton that addressed the specific of my mail. If Clinton and his assistants could refrain from having oral sex long enough to read and respond to my mail then I can't imagine why JC couldn't.

Consider this Fyre. If Cain HAD returned your e-mail would be be on this forum trashing his contributions to Journey and calling him a "pyschopath"?

1. I live by simple philosophies. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I may not be right and I may not be wrong but I live simply to sing my song (I don't know who said that - I may have I just made it up but I mean it!).
2. I'm not trashing contributions. I'm giving credit where it's due. You perceive this as trashing because you're giving more credit than is due.
3. I haven't called anyone a psychopath. That was the term you inferred. I was providing arguments/personal experiences to support the charge of sociopath.

Am I the only person here who think's there was something special about the Perry, Schon,Cain trio? Surely not....

I'm not at all arguing that it wasn't special. It was incredible. So was Perry, Schon, Rolie. All of the above have had solo efforts and other team projects. Out of all of the above Perry had the greatest success in those endeavors so it's self-evident that he deserves the credit for being the "X-Factor". I'm not taking credit away from anyone else with that statement.

And after you've flounced around in protest you'll adapt and support the next guy too.

Maybe. We'll see.

You were hardly leader of the welcome party for JSS last year were you?

I made some challenges. On BT I challenged HOW SA was "released". On MR I challenged HOW SA was trounced (much like how you're defending JC). I wasn't a welcome party leader because there was enough of those. It was more my voice to express dissent about the travesties taking place.

Yet now look at you. All you hopes and dreams are invested in the guy and you think that that firing him is a crime worthy of a maximum security jail sentence.....

Maximum would be too good. He needs to have a big, hairy cellmate named Bubba.

[Matthew]

I don't resent JC for not responding. I simply posted my personal experience as support for the sociopath charges.

Fyre - I think you've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jonathan Cain's system for dealing with the fans' letters and e-mails is inefficient. I'll give you that much....

All I know is that he never responded to the few mails I sent him. He could've displayed some grace and responded with a form letter like the one I posted here. He apparently never troubled himself with my "crap". Maybe he feels above it all.

I've written to The White House when Clinton was in office (which I'm sure receives LOTS more crap than JC) and they responded with a form letter signed by Clinton that addressed the specific of my mail. If Clinton and his assistants could refrain from having oral sex long enough to read and respond to my mail then I can't imagine why JC couldn't.

Good point - but this still doesn't make Cain a sociopath. Sorry Fyre. It just doesn't.

I made some challenges. On BT I challenged HOW SA was "released". On MR I challenged HOW SA was trounced (much like how you're defending JC). I wasn't a welcome party leader because there was enough of those. It was more my voice to express dissent about the travesties taking place.

Yes - I'm sure you're arguments on behalf of Augeri came from a place of huge irritation with the mob hysteria and self-righteousness that can overwhelm this board - much like my arguments do now.

BUT Augeri was busted for lip-syncing. He was proven to be guilty. Regarding the departure of JSS...who knows what Cain's role was in this? From what I've read Schon was the guy with the problem and it wasn't Cain's responsibility to deal with JSS anyway.

Maximum would be too good. He needs to have a big, hairy cellmate named Bubba.

Or you Fyre...pitching the Latin project to him all day long.....

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Good point - but this still doesn't make Cain a sociopath. Sorry Fyre. It just doesn't.

I never claimed that it alone did. I simply provided it as evidence "A" in a long line of evidences.

BUT Augeri was busted for lip-syncing. He was proven to be guilty. Regarding the departure of JSS...who knows what Cain's role was in this? From what I've read Schon was the guy with the problem and it wasn't Cain's responsibility to deal with JSS anyway.

The way I see it the entire band and management were guilty. And I see them all guilty for dumping JSS, too. Neal and Jon are equally guilty as far as I'm concerned. I started this thread to address your apologetic attitude towards JC and what I think is your raising him up onto a pedestal that he's neither earned nor is deserving of.

Maximum would be too good. He needs to have a big, hairy cellmate named Bubba.

Or you Fyre...pitching the Latin project to him all day long.....

Isn't the punishment supposed to fit the crime? I figured Bubba driving it up his back side every night would remind him of how he drove it up JSS'. Listening to me pitching the Latin rhythm project every night would be cruel and unusual punishment. Only a sick-o such as yourself could think of something that sadistic.

[Matthew]

I never claimed that it alone did. I simply provided it as evidence "A" in a long line of evidences.

And where do you stand on Cain's involvement with the local church and various charities, Fyre? Are these just the bogus activities of a sociopath in disguise? Or maybe, just maybe he's a sensitive, caring person with feelings, after all? Who knows?

The fact is....for every story about an unreturned e-mail or whatever I can come up with something that shows him in a different light. But we don't actually have a clue, do we? So give it a rest with the amateur psychology, Fyre.

The way I see it the entire band and management were guilty. And I see them all guilty for dumping JSS, too. Neal and Jon are equally guilty as far as I'm concerned. I started this thread to address your apologetic attitude towards JC and what I think is your raising him up onto a pedestal that he's neither earned nor is deserving of.

Actually, I think Jonathan Cain probably is a bit of a turd and God knows he hasn't written as decent tune in ten years...so I hardly think I've put the guy on a pedestal. BUT the criticism of him had got completely ridiculous and embarassing - much like the recent threads about Neal Schon's musicianship and how he wasn't that good after all.

And more than anything it's the hypocrisy which I took issue with. You - unlike me - have been supporting and apologizing for Schon and Cain's leadership of this band for a long, long time - even though they have been doing EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS for years which are suddenly making you jump on the 'hate campaign' bandwagon this year.

Be honest Fyre - you're just a disgruntled Augeri fan who's still in a sulk about him getting busted last year, aren't you?

Well, I think maybe it's time to put this thread out of its misery, don't you think? We're all out of original material on this subject so before we get sucked into another cycle of repetition maybe we ought to 'agree to differ'. What do you reckon?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

And where do you stand on Cain's involvement with the local church and various charities, Fyre? Are these just the bogus activities of a sociopath in disguise? Or maybe, just maybe he's a sensitive, caring person with feelings, after all? Who knows?

So yuo're saying that sociopaths do NOT attend church nor involve themselves in charities? Next you'll be trying to say that Catholic priests have never molested little boys - it's just all a big misunderstanding

People are capable of just about ANYTHING, Matty my boy. Just because somebody appears to be a saint on the outside doesn't mean that a monster of a sinner isn't on the inside.

The fact is....for every story about an unreturned e-mail or whatever I can come up with something that shows him in a different light. But we don't actually have a clue, do we? So give it a rest with the amateur psychology, Fyre.

There are indeed two sides to every story. I'll give up the amateur psychology just as soon as a certain person's behavior becomes more in line with what people on the "saint" side of the coin are selling.

Actually, I think Jonathan Cain probably is a bit of a turd and God knows he hasn't written as decent tune in ten years...so I hardly think I've put the guy on a pedestal. BUT the criticism of him had got completely ridiculous and embarassing - much like the recent threads about Neal Schon's musicianship and how he wasn't that good after all.

The fans are simply fed up. The responses are EXACTLY what you hear during a marriage counseling session when a couple is ready for a divorce! Oooops - ther I go again being an amateur psychologist.

It's just like an old married couple. They've FAITHFULLY put up with crap for so many years but then the faith is broken and when it is then they say, "He/she really wasn't that good for me afterall!"

You're faith is obviously not broken and you're still "married" to JOURNEY. That's fine however let's please recognize the nmotivation that's driving why people are posting what they are!

And more than anything it's the hypocrisy which I took issue with. You - unlike me - have been supporting and apologizing for Schon and Cain's leadership of this band for a long, long time - even though they have been doing EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS for years which are suddenly making you jump on the 'hate campaign' bandwagon this year.

Be honest Fyre - you're just a disgruntled Augeri fan who's still in a sulk about him getting busted last year, aren't you?

Like I said above - I've just turned the other cheek when it came to how band members have been treated simply because the music soothed my soul. Now the music no longer does that because they're no longer interested in their ART. They're now interested in making $$$ NOT by being ARTISTS but by being a tribute to themselves!

For THAT I simply have no other cheek to turn!

[Matthew]

So yuo're saying that sociopaths do NOT attend church nor involve themselves in charities? Next you'll be trying to say that Catholic priests have never molested little boys - it's just all a big misunderstanding

People are capable of just about ANYTHING, Matty my boy. Just because somebody appears to be a saint on the outside doesn't mean that a monster of a sinner isn't on the inside.

No...what I said quite clearly is that you don't have a clue what Jonathan Cain is really like.

There are indeed two sides to every story. I'll give up the amateur psychology just as soon as a certain person's behavior becomes more in line with what people on the "saint" side of the coin are selling.

Who's on the "saint side of the coin"? I'm virtually the only person coming to his defence and even I think he's a bit dodgy.

The fans are simply fed up. The responses are EXACTLY what you hear during a marriage counseling session when a couple is ready for a divorce! Oooops - ther I go again being an amateur psychologist.

It's just like an old married couple. They've FAITHFULLY put up with crap for so many years but then the faith is broken and when it is then they say, "He/she really wasn't that good for me afterall!"

You're faith is obviously not broken and you're still "married" to JOURNEY. That's fine however let's please recognize the nmotivation that's driving why people are posting what they are!

I went through my divorce years ago. Sure, I go back and have the occasional shag but I always hate myself afterwards for it.

Like I said above - I've just turned the other cheek when it came to how band members have been treated simply because the music soothed my soul. Now the music no longer does that because they're no longer interested in their ART. They're now interested in making $$$ NOT by being ARTISTS but by being a tribute to themselves!

For THAT I simply have no other cheek to turn!

I agree with you, Fyre. But I just don't think this is exactly breaking news....

And in any case....I know it's unlikely but do we know for sure that Journey won't produce new music which "soothes your soul" again? Was JSS really their only option? And isn't it possible that you might prefer whatever they do in 2008 to what they might have recorded with JSS?

After all, earlier this year you were bleating like a small lamb about the danger that Journey might go 'hard rock', weren't you?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

No...what I said quite clearly is that you don't have a clue what Jonathan Cain is really like.

That's entirely untrue. He's an artist and can be judged by his body of work. Interviews and comments made by people who've met him are windows to who he is.

I don't know you except through what you post on the internet. I never knew Jesus but can know something about him through biblical accounts. I never knew Elvis but... I mean geez - do I actually have to argue this? How can I NOT have a clue about who/what JC is all about...? He's a PUBLIC figure for crying out loud.

...I know it's unlikely but do we know for sure that Journey won't produce new music which "soothes your soul" again?

I'll be soothed when I hear it and if I hear it. Art is what soothes my soul. These guys haven't been artists for a long time.

Was JSS really their only option? And isn't it possible that you might prefer whatever they do in 2008 to what they might have recorded with JSS?

He was a GOOD option. I don't know about the other question. We'll never know simply because they never recorded anything with JSS!

...this year you were bleating like a small lamb about the danger that Journey might go 'hard rock', weren't you?

That's another can of worms! It will also lead us down the argument of what is and isn't "hard rock" and this thread has already spent sufficient time arguing genres, no?

[Matthew]

He's an artist and can be judged by his body of work.

EXACTLY....

This was the poinrt I was making at the outset before you started all this nonsense, Fyre.....

[ArnelRox]

[Matthew]

He's an artist and can be judged by his body of work.

EXACTLY....

This was the poinrt I was making at the outset before you started all this nonsense, Fyre.....

Matty u just can't let this thread go, can u? It's ur claim to fame online after all.

Please note Fyre said BODY. He didn't just mean a couple of tunes w/Journey. Do u have all of Friga's work outside of Journey to judge him on?

Oh no...the most relentless, dog-with-a-bone poster on Melodicrock.com is telling me to 'let go'. I clearly need to get a life...

[Wheels Of Fyre]

He's an artist and can be judged by his body of work.

EXACTLY....

This was the poinrt I was making at the outset before you started all this nonsense, Fyre.....

Matty u just can't let this thread go, can u? It's ur claim to fame online after all.

Please note Fyre said BODY. He didn't just mean a couple of tunes w/Journey. Do u have all of Friga's work outside of Journey to judge him on?

You got it. I'm a fan of Back To The Innocence (except for the Faithfully track which I think is absolutely horrid - NOT because he can't sing it like SP but because it's so void of any kind of soul/emotion). To my ear Arrival sounds like a JOURNEY-fied Back To The Innocence.

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[Crazie Scarab]

Bottom line is Journey would have been just as great w/o Jon Cain. There are plenty of great composers out there who are song writers as well. Perry, on the otherhand was the VOICE. It is Perry's VOICE that brought life to Journey. And, remember this! Perry did have a big hand in writing the greats. Could have been any piano player/composer, IMHO!

Besides that, Jon is a dick. Never cared for him at all, to tell you and him the truth.

[Crazie Scarab]

23 pages and only three votes? WTF? Talk about fucking LAZY!

[ArnelRox]

[ArnelRox]

[conversationpc]

Bottom line is Journey would have been just as great w/o Jon Cain. There are plenty of great composers out there who are song writers as well. Perry, on the otherhand was the VOICE. It is Perry's VOICE that brought life to Journey. And, remember this! Perry did have a big hand in writing the greats. Could have been any piano player/composer, IMHO!

Besides that, Jon is a dick. Never cared for him at all, to tell you and him the truth.

That can't be said with any great amount of certainty. Since we already know that his songwriting contributed heavily to the major success of both "Escape" and "Frontiers", we already know they were better off with him. Discussing how good they may have been without him is merely conjecture.

[Crazie Scarab]

Bottom line is Journey would have been just as great w/o Jon Cain. There are plenty of great composers out there who are song writers as well. Perry, on the otherhand was the VOICE. It is Perry's VOICE that brought life to Journey. And, remember this! Perry did have a big hand in writing the greats. Could have been any piano player/composer, IMHO!

Besides that, Jon is a dick. Never cared for him at all, to tell you and him the truth.

That can't be said with any great amount of certainty. Since we already know that his songwriting contributed heavily to the major success of both "Escape" and "Frontiers", we already know they were better off with him. Discussing how good they may have been without him is merely conjecture.

You're correct. And, I did say it was IMHO, did I not? This is a perfect example of people, like you, taking things way out of context on message boards and why I am ever so ready to quit posting altogether.

[Matthew]

Bottom line is Journey would have been just as great w/o Jon Cain. There are plenty of great composers out there who are song writers as well. Perry, on the otherhand was the VOICE. It is Perry's VOICE that brought life to Journey. And, remember this! Perry did have a big hand in writing the greats. Could have been any piano player/composer, IMHO!

Besides that, Jon is a dick. Never cared for him at all, to tell you and him the truth.

Yes...keyboard players who join a band and immediately co-write timeless rock classics like Don't Stop Believin'...they were dime a dozen weren't they?

[Matthew]

You got it. I'm a fan of Back To The Innocence (except for the Faithfully track which I think is absolutely horrid - NOT because he can't sing it like SP but because it's so void of any kind of soul/emotion). To my ear Arrival sounds like a JOURNEY-fied Back To The Innocence.

Look at that Matty. Fyre is perpetually short on funds, working his ass off to support his family, yet he went out & got Friga's solo crapola. Since u think Friga is Amadeus, I hope u have bought EVERYTHING he did.

If not, I'll borrow from Deano, "shut ur piehole".

My point was that we should judge the guy by his work - rather than self-righteously pointing the finger at him because he hasn't lived up to childish expectations of his character.

If you think Cain's work is "crapola". then that's fine. You've listened to the work and you've made an informed opinion. But don't start beating your chest in protest because of what you imagine is going on in Jonathan Cain's mind because other than reading promotional interviews, random scraps of backstage gossip and a whole heap of speculation on internet messageboards you don't actually know the guy do you? And even if you did...so what? Who cares if the guy is a turd?

For what it's worth...I think Jonathan Cain's solo work is surprisingly lame. Smooth Jazz tracks like "Elegance On The Catwalk" are completely baffling to me. Compare all that beige tinkling to the righteous keyboard solo on the ROR tour and you have to wonder what the hell the guy is doing....

His other stuff outside Journey? Well, it verges on the mediocre half the time. The Babys, Bad English, post-Perry Journey...good, solid AOR music...nothing brilliant, nothing to seriously object to.

As I've said about fifty times on this thread...it's Cain's work with Perry and Schon which counts and for that alone I can pretty much forgive the guy anything.

Oh...and one last thing....the use of the word Amadeus is IRONIC. It was a joke Perry made back in '86. So enough with all the chat that I actually think the guy is Mozart.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

You got it. I'm a fan of Back To The Innocence (except for the Faithfully track which I think is absolutely horrid - NOT because he can't sing it like SP but because it's so void of any kind of soul/emotion). To my ear Arrival sounds like a JOURNEY-fied Back To The Innocence.

Look at that Matty. Fyre is perpetually short on funds, working his ass off to support his family, yet he went out & got Friga's solo crapola. Since u think Friga is Amadeus, I hope u have bought EVERYTHING he did.

If not, I'll borrow from Deano, "shut ur piehole".

Perpetually short just about sums it up! However I was able to quit my second job last year unloading trucks at night at Kohl's so I guess we're doing "better".

[Little Lenny]

Bottom line is Journey would have been just as great w/o Jon Cain. There are plenty of great composers out there who are song writers as well. Perry, on the otherhand was the VOICE. It is Perry's VOICE that brought life to Journey. And, remember this! Perry did have a big hand in writing the greats. Could have been any piano player/composer, IMHO!

Besides that, Jon is a dick. Never cared for him at all, to tell you and him the truth.

OMG. Matty will have a heart attack reading this. Someone in England call 911 or whatever they call there.

999 .....just letting you know for future reference...i'm off for my dinner now

[ArnelRox]