OT: The resurrection

[conversationpc]

True... which to avoid a debate on sociological trends in modern America I'm going to leave this at be and not comment about those people. Most of them are a product of some various psychobabble I don't even want to get into at this moment.

I guess I'm fortunate that I haven't gotten involved with anyone like that. My experience is just the opposite. Real people who struggle to do what's right but still love God authentically.

[Rhiannon]

True... which to avoid a debate on sociological trends in modern America I'm going to leave this at be and not comment about those people. Most of them are a product of some various psychobabble I don't even want to get into at this moment.

I guess I'm fortunate that I haven't gotten involved with anyone like that. My experience is just the opposite. Real people who struggle to do what's right but still love God authentically.

People are complicated, complex creatures who often times don't know why they do or think what they do. This is my problem, I'm the type that I see a man standing in a mall looking down at his feet with a sullen glare on his face, and I think "What is your story, at what point did you trade your dreams for reality? What gnaws at you at night and keeps you awake?" Okay, I'm getting random and off-course. Carry on.

[Moon Beam]

Well this complex creature is going to do bath time with
her Little Lord Tyrant.
Keep posting folks, I love these kinda reads!


Hey there Rhi

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Open your mind to alternative explainations instead of trying to force your perception of inaccuracy on those who would think otherwise.

Understanding the Bible has nothing to do with one's MIND. It has everything to do with the SPIRIT.

What did Jesus say? Those with ears to hear...

What ears was he talking about? The ones on your head? No. Your mind? No. He was talking about the ears of the spirit.

Look at my sig and what I've posted here so far. I would argue that I'm by far and away more "alternative" than you give me credit for!

To say that it has nothing to do with the mind is flat-out wrong. There's a scripture in the New Testement (can't remember where it is right off the top of my head) that talked about how a certain group of Christians "searched the scriptures daily" to verify that what they were taught was so. Obviously, the truths in scripture need to be internalized to be of any value but God did give us a mind for a reason.

You can NOT logically use scripture to prove itself!

The mind is of no use for reading "scripture". Using the mind only leads to searching the scriptures daily to verify!

Again, I reference Jesus: those with ears to hear...

[Indyjoe]

So if it is a literal story then why didn't Adam and Eve die when they ate of the tree...?

If you take the story for the purposes in which it was meant (to tell a story and give a lesson, since it is from the Torah) then they did die, as in their life as it was promised them was stripped away and they died of that life and were exiled into a new one. Death and birth and rebirth isn't always cut and dry. Open your mind to alternative explainations instead of trying to force your perception of inaccuracy on those who would think otherwise.

No. God told them very directly: IN THAT DAY YOU SHALL DIE.

What is the problem with the answers? They were kicked out of the garden, separated from God. Death, the process begun.

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So God was lying?

No. Adam and Eve DID die THAT DAY. They died OF THE SPIRIT and were born OF THE FLESH. Before "eating" they were both "naked and unashamed" and after "eating" they were "naked and ashamed". Everyone goes through this - it's called puberty!

Then Jesus came along and said that one must be BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT - baptism - the ritualistic cleansing/washing away of the flesh.

To read this story as a LITERAL and HISTORICAL one is to misread it!

No God doesn't lie. I don't understand the puberty comment - Adam was a man.

I believe that I am not misreading or misunderstanding the Scriptures.

This has made for an interesting discussion. Not an easy one to have behind a keyboard! I disagree with you, however wherever this "conversation" should end, I wish you well Wheels of Fyre!! And that was my intention when I recommended that book to you.

~Wendy

[Moon Beam]

In my line of thought Eve has a whole new meaning and the bitch
is never welcome.

[Indyjoe]

In my line of thought Eve has a whole new meaning and the bitch
is never welcome.

It's been fun getting to know you through the pix and MR fest stories, Moon Beam!!

Love the pix of you all!!

~Wendy

[Moon Beam]

In my line of thought Eve has a whole new meaning and the bitch
is never welcome.

It's been fun getting to know you through the pix and MR fest stories, Moon Beam!!

Love the pix of you all!!

~Wendy

Hope that means you understood my Eve comment, I blame that bitch for much.

[RedWingFan]

In my line of thought Eve has a whole new meaning and the bitch
is never welcome.

It's been fun getting to know you through the pix and MR fest stories, Moon Beam!!

Love the pix of you all!!

~Wendy

Hope that means you understood my Eve comment, I blame that bitch for much.

That's all the pics you have Beamer? You're holding out. Put them all up! I know you have em.

[ohsherrie]

I haven't read every post in this thread, and I don't intend to. I have read several of Dave's and several of BRG's.

As for me, my problem with religion isn't a problem with the basis or ideology of it. I have no doubt that there is a higher power that is spiritual in nature. My problem is with how humanity has convoluted that spiritual power into a means of gaining power over other humans and in most cases also becoming wealthy at the expense of many who are less fortunate.

When all of the rich evangelists and the catholic hierarchy give up their riches as Christ said a virtuous man should, I'll join a church. Until then I'll keep my relationship with the higher power between me and that power.

Give this some thought if your religion will allow you to do so. If God, through Christ, really meant what he said about a virtuous man giving up all his worldly goods to follow him, what do you think he thinks of Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggerty, Jerry Falwell, Orel Roberts, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham(yes I did cast doubt on the venerable Billy Graham), etc, etc, etc, who have used religion to milk people of everything they can get out of them? Did the riches that they amassed come as manna from heaven? I don't think so.

The saddest part of it is that it's the poorest, most desperate of humanity who are most vulnerable. They reach out to find some kind of hope through the only means left to them, their faith. They send money that they need for their own well being to these people, or put it in the plate at their church of choice, hoping that it will show God that they are faithful and he will in turn improve their circumstances. Yes, Hallelujah, God will provide. My child is staving or dieing from lack of medical care because I can't afford what is needed, but if she/he dies it must be God's will because He would provide otherwise. Afterall, I put my last dollar in the collection plate.

Faith is a blessing, organized religion is a scam.

[Moon Beam]

I just be loving every folks view on this.
My Daddy raised me right and proper to love others and
be understanding of those I don't understand.
Knowledge lives and breathes in all circles.
Stone me straight faced but I will lay my last breath on the life we've been given.

[Indyjoe]

I haven't read every post in this thread, and I don't intend to. I have read several of Dave's and several of BRG's.

As for me, my problem with religion isn't a problem with the basis or ideology of it. I have no doubt that there is a higher power that is spiritual in nature. My problem is with how humanity has convoluted that spiritual power into a means of gaining power over other humans and in most cases also becoming wealthy at the expense of many who are less fortunate.

When all of the rich evangelists and the catholic hierarchy give up their riches as Christ said a virtuous man should, I'll join a church. Until then I'll keep my relationship with the higher power between me and that power.

Give this some thought if your religion will allow you to do so. If God, through Christ, really meant what he said about a virtuous man giving up all his worldly goods to follow him, what do you think he thinks of Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggerty, Jerry Falwell, Orel Roberts, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham(yes I did cast doubt on the venerable Billy Graham), etc, etc, etc, who have used religion to milk people of everything they can get out of them? Did the riches that they amassed come as manna from heaven? I don't think so.

The saddest part of it is that it's the poorest, most desperate of humanity who are most vulnerable. They reach out to find some kind of hope through the only means left to them, their faith. They send money that they need for their own well being to these people, or put it in the plate at their church of choice, hoping that it will show God that they are faithful and he will in turn improve their circumstances. Yes, Hallelujah, God will provide. My child is staving or dieing from lack of medical care because I can't afford what is needed, but if she/he dies it must be God's will because He would provide otherwise. Afterall, I put my last dollar in the collection plate.

Faith is a blessing, organized religion is a scam.

I have no problem supporting my local church where the money is used to pay for the lights, utilities of the building that we use, a very modest salary to the pastor that helps our congregation out in many ways, missions, helping people in need in the church and community, etc. It is totally up to each person to give cheerfully as unto the Lord or not to. That is entirely between the person and God.

I am not sure about the passage you are referring to about giving up worldly goods to follow Christ - at least not one that is in regards to today, so I can't comment on that one. I do see where you are coming from and the concern you have. I feel very badly for people that are duped into giving their money in that way and there are many liars that would use people in that way(although I am not referring to anyone specifically that you listed). I do agree with you and your concern.

~Wendy

[Indyjoe]

I just be loving every folks view on this.
My Daddy raised me right and proper to love others and
be understanding of those I don't understand.
Knowledge lives and breathes in all circles.
Stone me straight faced but I will lay my last breath on the life we've been given.

You have a good Daddy!! I had a good one too!
I can tell you this, whether I agree or disagree I think that the people on here are the coolest and I totally dig them!!

~Wendy

[Moon Beam]

I just be loving every folks view on this.
My Daddy raised me right and proper to love others and
be understanding of those I don't understand.
Knowledge lives and breathes in all circles.
Stone me straight faced but I will lay my last breath on the life we've been given.

You have a good Daddy!! I had a good one too!
I can tell you this, whether I agree or disagree I think that the people on here are the coolest and I totally dig them!!

~Wendy

Here yee and shoot the shot to the glass!

[conversationpc]

The mind is of no use for reading "scripture". Using the mind only leads to searching the scriptures daily to verify!

Again, I reference Jesus: those with ears to hear...

It's also obvious that the disciples, the ones who knew Jesus the best, also exhorted other believers to study the Word. Yes, that takes listening to the Spirit to understand it, but you still have to use your head. God doesn't intend for us to be useless automatons. Why do you think the New Testement constantly exhorts believers to adhere to sound doctrine? That takes study AND listening to the Spirit.

[conversationpc]

When all of the rich evangelists and the catholic hierarchy give up their riches as Christ said a virtuous man should, I'll join a church. Until then I'll keep my relationship with the higher power between me and that power.

Where does the Bible say that Christ said all virtuous men should give up their riches? There is a story that Jesus told about a rich man who went away sad that he was told to sell all he owns but nowhere that I am aware of are believers told to give up all their wealth. The Bible DOES say that riches can be a hinderance but it never says they are a bad thing in and of themselves.

...what do you think he thinks of Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggerty, Jerry Falwell, Orel Roberts, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham(yes I did cast doubt on the venerable Billy Graham), etc, etc, etc, who have used religion to milk people of everything they can get out of them? Did the riches that they amassed come as manna from heaven? I don't think so.

I probably don't trust most of those guys any more than you do, to be honest.

Faith is a blessing, organized religion is a scam.

Most organized religion is a sham, I'll give you that.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

When all of the rich evangelists and the catholic hierarchy give up their riches as Christ said a virtuous man should...

I would argue that this is a misreading. In Matthew and Mark Jesus was teaching "It's not that money is the root of all evil but rather, the LOVE of money is." This is the theme behind Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.

If you want to be of the spirit then you can't love money more than God.

The reality about churches is that they're also businesses. For some of them money becomes quite the focus. For others it's not. They can't all be painted with that brush you're trying to stroke them with.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

So if it is a literal story then why didn't Adam and Eve die when they ate of the tree...?

If you take the story for the purposes in which it was meant (to tell a story and give a lesson, since it is from the Torah) then they did die, as in their life as it was promised them was stripped away and they died of that life and were exiled into a new one. Death and birth and rebirth isn't always cut and dry. Open your mind to alternative explainations instead of trying to force your perception of inaccuracy on those who would think otherwise.

No. God told them very directly: IN THAT DAY YOU SHALL DIE.

What is the problem with the answers? They were kicked out of the garden, separated from God. Death, the process begun.

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So God was lying?

No. Adam and Eve DID die THAT DAY. They died OF THE SPIRIT and were born OF THE FLESH. Before "eating" they were both "naked and unashamed" and after "eating" they were "naked and ashamed". Everyone goes through this - it's called puberty!

Then Jesus came along and said that one must be BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT - baptism - the ritualistic cleansing/washing away of the flesh.

To read this story as a LITERAL and HISTORICAL one is to misread it!

No God doesn't lie. I don't understand the puberty comment - Adam was a man.

I believe that I am not misreading or misunderstanding the Scriptures.

This has made for an interesting discussion. Not an easy one to have behind a keyboard! I disagree with you, however wherever this "conversation" should end, I wish you well Wheels of Fyre!! And that was my intention when I recommended that book to you.

~Wendy

I have nothing but the best intentions, too!

All I'm saying is that for me the story of Adam and Eve is about "growing up".

When we're children - before puberty - we're innocent. We're in the spirit. As boys and girls we're "naked and unashamed". Then we "eat of the tree" which is to say we reach puberty and lose our innocence to the ways of the flesh. In other words we die of the spirit and are born into the flesh. In so doing we're removed from innocence and Paradise.

Why do people search for the Garden of Eden? What do they expect to find there? How silly! The Gardn is right where you stand IF you stand IN THE SPIRIT. If you're NOT in the spirit then you'll be logged into MapQuest for a very, very long time!

Ultimately, we're ALL Adam and Eve. They're not our Great, Great, Great X 1,000,000 Grandparents. They're us and we are them.

Recently my family and I were visiting with our friends who are going to be the God Parents of our children. Everybody's Catholic except me. I'm entirely non-denominational. Despite being Catholic my friend believes that the rib story is about how God is really an alien that performed a kind of cloning procedure by removing Adam's rib! Well, if that brings comfort then I suppose that's as good an understanding as any! It doesn't with him, though.

I believe that the goal is to listen with the "right" ears and it will bring comfort and enliven one's life.

There's a teacher who talks about listening with giraffe ears! His name is Marshall Rosenburg and he travels the world teaching non-violent communication. He teaches that non-violent speaking and listening comes from the heart therefore he chose the giraffe to represent his teaching as the giraffe has the largest heart of all land animals. He also chose the jackal to represent violence. I had the opportunity to see him in Cleveland many years ago and even ask him some questions. His presentation is very fun. He uses giraffe and jackal puppets and has conversations between them that are very entertaining. He's one of many that are - in very subtle ways - carrying on Jesus' tradition of "those with ears to hear" His website is: http://www.cnvc.org/

I believe that if we accept biblical stories as they are spoon fed to us by tradition then we're not listening with the right ears. I'd say that we're not listening at all. Tradition is fine to slap us in the ass as we begin our ventures however at some point in time we must also find our own ways.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

And do you still believe in Santa Claus...?

I believe you will one day have to answer for your childish comments!

There's that old-fashioned threat of fire and brimstone!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

So what's that one piece of evidence. You didn't name any! You just make a claim that you found a bunch of it.

For myself, PERSONALLY. That is why I asked you to re-read that. How can I express in words the truths I find in my soul? Granted, there is archaeological evidence of certain Biblical tales, but what I was referring to I made sure to say "personally".

I'm sorry but I have to challenge this. If you're offended then I understand.

You said,
"In studying all this I, personally, found there to be an overwhelming amount of evidence to support the idea of Biblical story as a solid fact."

I understand your "all this" as meaning "the existing physical materials that we all have access to". And within this material you (personally) found an overwhelming amount of evidence to support the Bible as solid fact.

If my understanding isn't correct then please correct me. If it is correct then my question still stands: name one piece of evidence.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

"Religion" is complete bullshit. Whether it's a Muslim praying to Allah on his flying carpet or a Catholic praying in a church run by a pedophile, I can't think of a bigger waste of time. I went to a Catholic grammar school, high school and college. What a collossal waste of time spent in church. I would've been a much more productive human had I been tutoring a student that needed it, helping out at a homeless shelter or helping raise money for the handicapped. "Religions" have agendas...whether it be the collection box, a "holy war" or butt-fucking little boys. I have very little respect for people that need to gather together to feel good about themselves. Go out and be proactive. And any God that needs to be "worshipped" or prayed to is a narcississtic jack-off. Wake up and quit wasting your fucking time. People need actual help much more than God needs "prayers."

Despite the fact that I'm the furthest you can get from being Catholic I attend Catholic church with my family. My wife wants our children baptized and have religion in their lives so I'll do what I can to support because ultimately, religion isn't complete bullshit any more than you're a complete [write in your best derogatory adjective].

I like church. It give me some quiet time to sort uot all kinds of things. I think about God, etc. Is the priest a pedophile? Maybe. Is the person standing next to me one? Maybe. Are you one?

Speaking of gathering...isn't MR.com just another one of those places...?

[Indyjoe]

I have nothing but the best intentions, too!

Good, then we are the same page here!

All I'm saying is that for me the story of Adam and Eve is about "growing up".

When we're children - before puberty - we're innocent. We're in the spirit. As boys and girls we're "naked and unashamed". Then we "eat of the tree" which is to say we reach puberty and lose our innocence to the ways of the flesh. In other words we die of the spirit and are born into the flesh. In so doing we're removed from innocence and Paradise.

An interesting take on things I have never heard, although very different from mine.

Why do people search for the Garden of Eden? What do they expect to find there? How silly! The Gardn is right where you stand IF you stand IN THE SPIRIT. If you're NOT in the spirit then you'll be logged into MapQuest for a very, very long time!

I don't know who all is looking for what, but I love that they are! I will be going to check out the Dead Sea Scrolls while they are San Diego!

Would you believe it was literal if they found the Garden? Just curious.

Ultimately, we're ALL Adam and Eve. They're not our Great, Great, Great X 1,000,000 Grandparents. They're us and we are them.

Recently my family and I were visiting with our friends who are going to be the God Parents of our children. Everybody's Catholic except me. I'm entirely non-denominational. Despite being Catholic my friend believes that the rib story is about how God is really an alien that performed a kind of cloning procedure by removing Adam's rib! Well, if that brings comfort then I suppose that's as good an understanding as any! It doesn't with him, though.

I believe that the goal is to listen with the "right" ears and it will bring comfort and enliven one's life.

I am also non-denominational. You are right about the he who has ears to hear, but I do not believe that the Scripture is subjective and has a different meaning to whoever is applying it.

There's a teacher who talks about listening with giraffe ears! His name is Marshall Rosenburg and he travels the world teaching non-violent communication. He teaches that non-violent speaking and listening comes from the heart therefore he chose the giraffe to represent his teaching as the giraffe has the largest heart of all land animals. He also chose the jackal to represent violence. I had the opportunity to see him in Cleveland many years ago and even ask him some questions. His presentation is very fun. He uses giraffe and jackal puppets and has conversations between them that are very entertaining. He's one of many that are - in very subtle ways - carrying on Jesus' tradition of "those with ears to hear" His website is: http://www.cnvc.org/

Check out the book and I will check out the website

I believe that if we accept biblical stories as they are spoon fed to us by tradition then we're not listening with the right ears. I'd say that we're not listening at all. Tradition is fine to slap us in the ass as we begin our ventures however at some point in time we must also find our own ways.

Right on! Do not accept it because you are being "spoon fed" search the Scriptures, dig in, learn!

Have a nice weekend, WOF

[Rip Rokken]

Just a recommendation here... There is a great little book that talks a bit about the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. It is called More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell. He didn't buy the evidence either and while setting out to find the evidence went from an atheist to a believer. Anyway, just to put that out there.

Thanks, I thought about some of those as well but thought there would be no way the person I was recommending to would read those. I do hope he might give a chance to the little book, or to those!

I actually have several copies of this book (I keep some on hand), but it's been a while since I've given one out. Gave one to an atheist about 14 years ago -- a really, really intelligent and skeptical kid -- and he ended up accepting Christ and becoming a Christian. The book was just one of the factors in his decision, but it was the definite door opener that made him think.

You go!

[Indyjoe]

Just a recommendation here... There is a great little book that talks a bit about the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. It is called More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell. He didn't buy the evidence either and while setting out to find the evidence went from an atheist to a believer. Anyway, just to put that out there.

Thanks, I thought about some of those as well but thought there would be no way the person I was recommending to would read those. I do hope he might give a chance to the little book, or to those!

I actually have several copies of this book (I keep some on hand), but it's been a while since I've given one out. Gave one to an atheist about 14 years ago -- a really, really intelligent and skeptical kid -- and he ended up accepting Christ and becoming a Christian. The book was just one of the factors in his decision, but it was the definite door opener that made him think.

You go!

AWESOME!! I have a copy to give out, I need to keep more on hand!

Thanks for telling me about that!

~Wendy

[Rip Rokken]

So if it is a literal story then why didn't Adam and Eve die when they ate of the tree...?

They didn't physically die immediately, but introduced death into the world through their action. Like being bitten by a snake -- you don't immediately drop -- takes the poison time to spread and do it's work.

More importantly I think is to realize what life and death really are. Life comes from Christ, and death is nothing more than separation from God. Adam originally walked with God, and now was separated from God thru his actions. In the Christian faith, death is not a cessation of existence -- we all exist for eternity, but whether we do so in the presence of God or the absence of God determines whether we have eternal life or suffer real death.

[Moon Beam]

I like church. It gives me some quiet time to sort out all kinds of things. I think about God, etc

Lots of people go to Church and don't practice their faith.
If you get something good from it then that's great.

[Rip Rokken]

AWESOME!! I have a copy to give out, I need to keep more on hand!

Thanks for telling me about that!

~Wendy

Hey, no problem. That guy was something else -- seeing him focus all his intelligence on his new faith was something to see. He began devouring the Word and everything he could, even studying Greek. Really, really changed his life, and when I met him, he was near suicidal. Met him in a Sociology class, and that day the topic was religion. At one point the teacher asked if anyone was an atheist, and I saw one raised hand from the back of the room in my peripheral vision. I managed to figure out who it was after class and offered to buy him lunch. It took a lot of time -- a few months of mainly listening, being a friend, and not so much talking on my part. I just gave God room to work.

My copies are the exact same cover as the picture someone showed, and I may have had them for 14 years.... haha. I also have "The Case For Christ" by Stroebel. I haven't read all the messages here to see if someone else mentioned these, but Josh McDowell wrote 2 fairly large scholarly volumes called "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" (Pt. 1 & 2, I believe). I was always really interested in apologetics. Even then it seems people were easier to talk to than now, though. People have become so much more close-minded today than ever, just believing whatever they wish and being most stubborn about it. But God still has ways, and he is not blocked in accomplishing what He wants to do. Feel free to PM me anytime if you want to talk further -- these are my favorite topics to discuss.

[Indyjoe]

AWESOME!! I have a copy to give out, I need to keep more on hand!

Thanks for telling me about that!

~Wendy

Hey, no problem. That guy was something else -- seeing him focus all his intelligence on his new faith was something to see. He began devouring the Word and everything he could, even studying Greek. Really, really changed his life, and when I met him, he was near suicidal. Met him in a Sociology class, and that day the topic was religion. At one point the teacher asked if anyone was an atheist, and I saw one raised hand from the back of the room in my peripheral vision. I managed to figure out who it was after class and offered to buy him lunch. It took a lot of time -- a few months of mainly listening, being a friend, and not so much talking on my part. I just gave God room to work.

My copies are the exact same cover as the picture someone showed, and I may have had them for 14 years.... haha. I also have "The Case For Christ" by Stroebel. I haven't read all the messages here to see if someone else mentioned these, but Josh McDowell wrote 2 fairly large scholarly volumes called "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" (Pt. 1 & 2, I believe). I was always really interested in apologetics. Even then it seems people were easier to talk to than now, though. People have become so much more close-minded today than ever, just believing whatever they wish and being most stubborn about it. But God still has ways, and he is not blocked in accomplishing what He wants to do. Feel free to PM me anytime if you want to talk further -- these are my favorite topics to discuss.

Thanks so much!

~Wendy

[Rip Rokken]

To say that it has nothing to do with the mind is flat-out wrong. There's a scripture in the New Testement (can't remember where it is right off the top of my head) that talked about how a certain group of Christians "searched the scriptures daily" to verify that what they were taught was so. Obviously, the truths in scripture need to be internalized to be of any value but God did give us a mind for a reason.

Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

[conversationpc]

To say that it has nothing to do with the mind is flat-out wrong. There's a scripture in the New Testement (can't remember where it is right off the top of my head) that talked about how a certain group of Christians "searched the scriptures daily" to verify that what they were taught was so. Obviously, the truths in scripture need to be internalized to be of any value but God did give us a mind for a reason.

Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Thanks for the reference.